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Thread: my new toy, before and after

  1. #1
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    my new toy, before and after

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Heres my new rig, a Cimabli Junior with matching grinder,

    looked nice but needed a minor adjustment so heres the after picture




    Im glad I paid attention during Meccano lessons at pre school :D

    Good news is its now back together and pulling great shots. It only needed a heating element replaced but after hearing all the horror scale stories I decided to go the whole hog and strip it right down, All parts descaled back to original condition, new gaskets, o-rings etc. certainly learnt heaps about what makes an espresso machine work but fortunately this is a pretty simple model, non auto,tank fill and no electronics.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: my new toy, before and after

    Thats awesome dude! Gotta love quality equipment. Specially when you get to tear it apart and find out what makes it tick! I had a laugh I had the recent pleasure of doing that myself and I got to know the insides of my new toy rather well over the course of the 4-day (Sleep? Whats that?) tear-down, descale, clean, and rebuild. Here she is just before pieces started going back on.

    DCP_1137-Resized 800.jpg

    And this is why I tore her *all the way down for a thourough descaling and cleaning!

    DCP_1140-Resized 800.jpg

    Gotta love Cimbalis! :)

    Java "Now where did I put all those pieces" phile :D
    Last edited by Javaphile; 14th September 2013 at 09:34 AM. Reason: Fixed picture links

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    Re: my new toy, before and after

    Nice pics Javaphile! :P

    I like the Cimbali Junior. In this world of E61 Faema knock-offs and shiny chrome The Junior has that no-nonsense look that looks like it could survive a nuclear explosion. ;)

    Truly the Sherman Tank of the Espresso machine world. Same applies for the Wega Mininova. Very professional looking machines.

    Just a question Javaphile. How hard is she on the electricity bills and what sort of warm-up times does she require ??? Shed be a good machine to have on 24/7 and plumbed in.

    Warren -



  4. #4
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: my new toy, before and after

    Quote Originally Posted by warren link=1103091005/0#2 date=1103149436
    Nice pics Javaphile! :P

    I like the Cimbali Junior. In this world of E61 Faema knock-offs and shiny chrome The Junior has that no-nonsense look that looks like it could survive a nuclear explosion. ;)

    Truly the Sherman Tank of the Espresso machine world. Same applies for the Wega Mininova. Very professional looking machines.

    Just a question Javaphile. How hard is she on the electricity bills and what sort of warm-up times does she require ??? Shed be a good machine to have on 24/7 and plumbed in.

    Warren -

    Hey Warren,

    Yeah I really like the all stainless look. Unfortunately my Cimbali, an M28 Basic 2cl made in 1994, is manily painted pieces. :/\/ No where near as good looking as all stainless in my opinion.

    As to the costs of running mine 24/7 I have yet to get a full months electricity bill with it on it as Ive only had it for about a month now. Based on the timing of how often the heater kicks on Im guessing the total cost per month of running it 24/7 at about $30US. This is based on a per Kw/hr charge of 10 cents. The heater seems to be on about 1/8th of the time in a room that has an ambient temp of about 15C.

    From a cold start the boiler is up to temp in under 10 minutes. Id then run a few blank shots/back flushes to get the groupheads and portafilters up to a reasonable temp. After a few days of this I decided I didnt want to wait that long for my morning shot and have since left it on 24/7. :)

    Im planning on insulating my boiler to further reduce running costs. I dont care if it doesnt warm up the glasses up top. So what? Fill your glass with water from its dispenser before you grind your beans and by the time youve packed the portafilter the glass is nice and hot. :)

    If you plumb yours in be sure that the filter and line you use can pass water through at a rate acceptable to the pump on the Cimbali. I found that with the filter Im using a 1/4" feed line is not big enough and results in some ugly noises coming from the unit when it fills. Mine needs at least a 3/8" water supply line. The quarter inch line was fine with no filter in place, but as soon as the filter was put into place the noises started. My solution to this was to put a holding tank in place between the filter and the Cimbali. This holding tank was made for use with a reverse osmosis filtration system to hold the water after it had gone through its filtration and to give the water adequite pressure coming out the dispenser. This particular tank holds roughly 6l and so has more than enough water available to the machine when it needs a refill. Much easier to install this tank than to replumb in a new line. :)

    For right now I have it draining into a 20l bucket that is emptied as needed. Once its in its permanent location I may plumb in a new drain line for it. Given all the laws in place here for doing this though I may very well stick with the bucket. Even with all my extra flushings I only have to empty the bucket once every 2 days so its not that big a hassle.

    One thing I would suggest is dont stint on the cleaning flushes after a pull. I run blanks/backflushes and scrub the gasket/screen until theres no signs of any grounds left. This ensures the best tasting pulls and has the added benefit of moving enough water through the system that it doesnt go stale on you. I also use the water dispenser to clean my glass and warm it up before I pull the next shot. If I try to be miserly with my water usage the water in it goes stale after about 3-4 days which results in nasty smelling water and bad tasting pulls. At which point the entire system has to be drained and refilled. Much easier to just use plenty of water in day-to-day usage. :) Depending on the usage I drain the entire system once every 1-2 weeks or so just on GP.

    Java "I love stainless" phile

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    Re: my new toy, before and after

    Quote Originally Posted by warren link=1103091005/0#2 date=1103149436
    Nice pics Javaphile! *:P

    I like the Cimbali Junior. In this world of E61 Faema knock-offs and shiny chrome The Junior has that no-nonsense look that looks like it could survive a nuclear explosion. *;)

    Truly the Sherman Tank of the Espresso machine world.

    How hard is she on the electricity bills and what sort of warm-up times does she require ??? Shed be a good machine to have on 24/7 and plumbed in.

    Warren -
    Its pretty easy to calculate power usage using one of the energy suppliers web sites e.g

    http://www.energexinstitute.com/home-connect/light-query.php

    If the machine has a 1300 watt element (which mine currently does although javaphiles twin group is probably larger) and the duty cycle is approx 15% then it will be the equivalent of 13 100watt lights being on for 24 hours per week! The resulting cost according to this site would be about $4.50 per week. Your insulation would need to be pretty efficient to achieve this. Im sure theres a simpler model where yoiu can just input watts and hours but this is one I found in a quick search

    re the juniors construction I looked at another machine today, a highly regarded bezzera BZ35 but internally all the fittings were about half the size of the cimbali. Im spoilt for life :o

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    Re: my new toy, before and after

    Mmm. Id like to rubbish this machine as I dont have one but I love them too ((())) much.

    Grant

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: my new toy, before and after

    Quote Originally Posted by 24283C3B202A2C24490 link=1103091005/4#4 date=1103277058

    Its pretty easy to calculate power usage using one of the energy suppliers web sites e.g

    http://www.energexinstitute.com/home-connect/light-query.php

    If the machine has a 1300 watt element (which mine currently does although javaphiles twin group is probably larger) and the duty cycle is approx 15% then it will be the equivalent of 13 100watt lights being on for 24 hours per week! The resulting cost according to this site would be about $4.50 per week. Your insulation would need to be pretty efficient to achieve this. Im sure theres a simpler model where yoiu can just input watts and hours but this is one I found in a quick search
    Hi All,

    This looked like a fairly simple tool to use. Found another one here http://tinyurl.com/mouynj that shows you how to work it out for yourself and might be a bit clearer on the simple calcs involved for anyone who wants to have a go at working it out for themselves.

    For anyone whos not too sure about how to work out the duty cycle of their machine, a simple method is to observe the activity of your machines Boiler Indicator light after it(the machine) has had time to stabilise, and then time the duration that the boiler is On and how long it is Off for a set period, say 1/2 Hr. You can do this at various times of the day too if you want the calc to be more accurate.

    Armed with the data gathered from these observations you can either average the On times and the Off times, or you can select the longest On time and pair it with the shortest Off time to give you a "worst case" scenario. Which ever way you decide to go, Sum the On and Off time pair you have selected, then Divide the On time by this Sum and then Multiply by 100 to realise a percentage. This will be your effective duty cycle.

    From your most recent Power Bill, identify the cost per Unit of your general power tarrif. A unit is 1.0 KWH (Kilo-Watt-Hour).
    Identify the Power Rating of your espresso machines Boiler Element, usually somewhere in the region of 1100 to 1400 Watts(W) or 1.1 to 1.4 KiloWatts(KW).
    If you run your machine continuously, then you just use the nominal 24 Hr per day running time, if less than this, then what ever period per day you actually run it plus the time taken for the machine to heat up from cold each time it is started.

    The Daily cost of running your machine is then calculated using the following formula:
    Running Costs (in $0.00) = KW x UT x Duty Cycle x Unit Cost
    KW - Boiler Element Rating
    Utilisation Time (UT) - In Hours (Nominally 24)
    Duty Cycle - From Calc above
    Unit Cost - Cost per KWH in $0.00

    For a machine with a 1.2KW Boiler Element that runs 24 Hrs/Day at a Duty Cycle of 17.5% on an Energy Tarrif of $0.135/Unit, the *running costs per day are:

    1.2 x 24 x 17.5/100 x 0.135 = $0.6804 per Day, or

    $4.76 per Week.

    For a single Dual Purpose Boiler machine like a Silvia for example, the costs are significantly less than this because the Utilisation Time is likely significantly less, i.e. normally only switched on for an hour or so and used for maybe an additional half-hour after that per session. By following the above procedure with your particular machine in your particular circumstances, you will be able to calculate the actual running costs reasonably accurately.

    Now, where did I put my darn calculator... I can never find it when I need it. :P

    Cheers,
    Mal.

  8. #8
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    Re: my new toy, before and after

    I will post a cafe day for perth shortly wich will be at my place in Woodvale.

    Dont look upon it as competitive. It is about producing the nicest coffee you can by whatever means available. Comparison is inevitable and is part of the fun.

    It is going to be FUN...:)

    Grant

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    Re: my new toy, before and after

    OK, revival time....

    With so much interest in commercial two group machines (3 currently being restored) there are some good pointers for anyone planning to do the same...

    Especially Javas photo of the innards of his boiler :o :o

    The details on power usage would also be of interest to prospective restorers.

  10. #10
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: my new toy, before and after

    JavaB, you wouldnt be a candidate for Scootagals competition to dig deeply back into the past and drag out an old post and make it relevant, now would you? ;D ;D ;D

    Nonetheless, always love looking at restoration jobs, whether they be coffee machine innards, or cruising boats.

    --Robusto

  11. #11
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: my new toy, before and after

    Can I revive this thread.... *My duty cycle is 10.5% for the 3000 watt lagged boiler so not counting warm up time (which is quick now that the boiler is lagged if the machine is off all night) 10 hours on per day not being used for shots (just ticking away) would be about 50c a day and then use creates the total cost. However I also use the machine to fill the tea pot many times a day, so there is a saving there in terms of boiling the kettle. I reckon 50c per day as the background cost is pretty good for a big machine.

    Cheers and thanks for this calculation Mal :)

  12. #12
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: my new toy, before and after

    Quote Originally Posted by 7C6960707C6767130 link=1103091005/10#10 date=1252534600
    Cheers and thanks for this calculation Mal :)
    Most welcome Oz.... ;)

    Ive updated my post above after reading through it after all these years, and clarified a couple of points here and there that may have been ambiguous. Also updated the links where needed.... :)

    Mal.

  13. #13
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    Re: my new toy, before and after

    Could also use something like www.easyswitch.com.au to work out exactly how much itd cost on top of your usual bill with a couple of simple calcs.



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