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Thread: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Another extreme machine to introduce:

    I couldnt resist this for $207.50. Now, all we need to do is build a house that will fit this!

    The LSM Logo:


    The Machine:


    Her Boiler:


    And a little more:


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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Wow, Dennis.

    Youve outdone us all. You should have your own sub-catagory of mega extreme.

    Three groups -- youre half way to opening up your dream cafe.

    Tell us more. All the specs, intentions, details please. Why so cheap? Sounds like an extreme bargain.

    --Robusto

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1175511560/0#1 date=1175513709
    Wow, Dennis.

    Youve outdone us all. You should have your own sub-catagory of mega extreme.
    --Robusto
    Got to agree with that - well done Dennis...

    But mega extreme - that would be a 4 group Synesso installed at home......

    That would be fantastic - well in my dreams, but there are 10s of thousands of reasons (not to mention 1 wife) why it wont happen to me ;) ;D ;D

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Thanks Robusto.

    I came across this at the place whose name shall not be mentioned. The guy who owned it is an electrician and got her from a cafe in oxford st about a year ago. Its been sitting on his kitchen bench ever since and he said he has used it about once a month since then - plugging it into the 15amp (the plug is showing signs of melting).

    Anyway, he said he just wanted to get rid of clutter. I bought it without inspecting it first and couldnt believe my eyes this evening when I took the cup-warming tray off. After some of the pics Ive seen on CS, this seemed to look new inside. I couldnt get it out of there fast enough! Funny thing is, the guy I bought this from has offered to buy the bike I havent started to restore. If I accept his offer the LSM will have cost me $100 to date.

    Build date is 22/10/1992 and pulls a massive 5000watts. I think the boiler capacitty is 19litres and the whole unit weighs oooh, maybe 80kilos.

    Ill need a lot of help from you guys to restore her. As mentioned earlier, there is no way she will fit in our kitchen, and the giotto looks so good there anyway. We live in a rahter large townhouse and fortunate enought to have a storeroom/workshop downstairs that is almost the size of a single garage. Eventually, I think she (have to give hre a name) will probably live there...and I think Ill be spending a lot more time there too.

    Oh, and heres the best bit - its made in Italy! ;)

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Well, for that price you just got to have her. Even for looking at and nothing more if it came to that.

    5kv. That is serious: 20+ amps. I dont suppose you have 3-phase power to your storeroom? Might be worth considering on the presumption LSM can take it.

    Perhaps you can do what Sparky did to his La Pavona, and run only part of the element to cut down on current draw. If so, at least you may be able to give her a test run without rewiring your house to nuclear auxiliary.

    Otherwise, at the very least youll need a dedicated 240V 20-amp line back to your meter box.

    As you say, the under the bonnet condition looks pretty good -- maybe youll get away with just a good scrub and one or two minor part replacements. Fingers crossed.

    --Robusto


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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Wow 5000watts.... i think you will be paying some big electricity bills if you run it 24/7 without insulation. And what a bargin!
    So i would say 3group normal is mega extreme machine for this machine ;)
    Now.. As for mega extreme i think 1group cyncra or LM would be in that catorgory... 4group and that is the super mega machines. All you need is $16K and youll be there :)

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992


    Hmmm thats a biggie. I may not have mentioned, but I have a 3 gr Bezzera in my workshop as well. I think extreme is well warranted if you actually fire the thing up and run it for home use. Better get yourself a 20 A plug as well.

    The Pav is actually rated at 4.5 kW, but Im running only two of the three elements to reduce it to a more manageable 3 kW.


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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee Kid link=1175511560/0#5 date=1175516106
    Now.. As for mega extreme i think 1group cyncra or LM would be in that catorgory... 4group and that is the super mega machines. All you need is $16K and youll be there :)
    Dennis could probably pull off another mega bargain deal and get it for a second-hand watch, throw in some of his entertainment, and $350 cash. ;D ;D

    --Robusto

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    I would have paid almost that much just for the badge.

    Distance from storeroom to meter room is only 10metres or so and very do-able...might even be able to run it back to someone elses meter! (I am of course joking!!)

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    (Dont you just hate it when the posts come up out of sequence --viz a viz mentions of Sparkys re-wired element)

    --Robusto

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Dennis, maybe you could give the ex-owner electrician a couple of dollars more to do the wiring.

    --Robusto

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    No worries - Ill probably end up printing all the posts as I go along my little journey.

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    I have a friend who is a sparky

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Very clean looking inside.
    A definite bargain Dennis.
    I cant invite you around for coffee now, Ill have to drop hints for you to invite me.

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Dennis,

    It is almost certainly a 3 element 1600W per element machine.....

    Except for the 1 hour or so walm up you could probably run just one element (on 10 A supply or two 3200W on a 15 A supply (thats the "standard" element configuration on my La Cimbali - 4000W in total - for single phase power) - takes about 35-40 minutes to walm up.... I wired mine for MAX power so 20A run! ;)

    Or You will need a 25 A run (to allow for surges etc) if you intend to run all 3 elements....... in which case warm up will be about 20 minutes. - and there is always 3 phase if you have it available.

    Warm up is time for the boiler to get to pressure...... Mine takes about 20+ more minutes for everything to stabilise before making espressos.

    Looks to be in great condition as well. Good buy!. :)


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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    youe be welcome TG

    JavaB - thats a bit of a relief really, especially since Sue (thats my partner) and I share the bills and the electricity is one of mine. No 3 phase here either though wish there was for the aircon alone.

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1175511560/15#15 date=1175517301
    JavaB - thats a bit of a relief really, especially since Sue (thats my partner) and I share the bills and the electricity is one of mine. No 3 phase here either though wish there was for the aircon alone.
    Dennis,

    The news re power bill isnt so good.

    Using less elements reduces the current required (which means you can use a more normal power run) but it doesnt reduce the power consumed :(

    When I was testing mine (up in the shed during rebuild) I used only one element so I could use a 10 A outlet...... the heater (once the temperature stabilised) was on for about 40 seconds then off for about 150 seconds.... on its 25 A run (I built in an extra "safety" margin on the power run) it is on for just over 12 seconds and off for about 150 seconds (three time the current / power but for a third of the time).

    So you will use about 500W per hour regardless of the number of heaters used.... ie. 12 KwH per day.... assuming it is on 24/7. This can be reduced by insulating the boiler and reducing heat loss.

    And it takes about 1.8 KwH to get to temp and a further 400 wH before the temp stabilises.... ie 2.2 KwH before you can make a coffee if you switch it off afterwards...

    I decided to leave mine on 24/7 and pay for the approximately 10KwH mine consumes every day :( :(

    Here in Perth electricity is 13.94c per KwH (inc GST) which makes it $1.39 per day or $42 per month....... Gulp :( :(

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Oooh...goes to show how little I know.

    Ill have to check how much the charge is per kwh. If its too much, Sue can start paying for her coffee!

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Running it round the clock still only costs less than half the price of a latte. Its a reasonable price for a "hobby"

    --Robusto

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992


    I say bring on that boiler insulation!

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1175511560/15#17 date=1175518610

    Ill have to check how much the charge is per kwh. If its too much, Sue can start paying for her coffee!
    Just edited my post with my cost - $42 per month.....

    But my wife didnt complain (too much ;)) - she enjoys a latte whenever she wants - has hot water on tap for teas etc.... all is good.

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    I just love the way we all are able to justify the cost - "but darling, when you work it out we will have actually SAVED money by buying $6k worth of coffee equipment.

    Im concerned that if I start charging Sue, Ill be sleeping with the LSM....please...no jokes here, for my sake!

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1175511560/15#18 date=1175518829
    Running it round the clock still only costs less than half the price of a latte. Its a reasonable price for a "hobby"

    --Robusto
    Yep agree there Robusto...

    Add to that about a Kilo of Coffee per week, quite a few litres of milk..... so the cost of the other "consumables" is far higher in any case..... (not all consumed by wife or I by the way)....

    And its just so convenient leaving it on. :)

    Dennis,

    I could comment re your last post....... ::);D ;D ;D ;D ;D but Ill restrain myself.... ;)

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    yeah I know JavaB, and thankyou for not doing so...one day Sue is going to see these posts

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    I wont.

    At least in winter you can always cuddle up and be warm.

    Not always the case with temperamental women.

    BTW Dennis my Expobar has a name so let me know when you think of one for your new girlfriend.

  26. #26
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Maybe we should have a competition TG?

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    No but to inspire you Ill tell you her name.

    You already know she is Spanish and HOT!

    Her name is Elena.
    That translates from Spanish, to "the shiny one".

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Cool

    I might call mine Lolita!

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1175511560/15#27 date=1175522952
    Cool

    I might call mine Lolita!
    Nope.

    Lolita can only be a .... two group... ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    And shes too old.
    Will be 15 in October.

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    "Caprice" - unpredictable, whimsical.

    On another note - whats the effect on trying to create a god shot with having such a large volume of water being constantly re-heated and sitting in a tank? Naturally, in a commercial environment, water is being replaced regularly and rapidly, whereas in a home environment, a 19 litre tank is not going to run out in a hurry. Maybe this is suitable for another topic?

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1175511560/30#30 date=1175549061

    On another note - whats the effect on trying to create a god shot with having such a large volume of water being constantly re-heated and sitting in a tank? Naturally, in a commercial environment, water is being replaced regularly and rapidly, whereas in a home environment, a 19 litre tank is not going to run out in a hurry. Maybe this is suitable for another topic?
    Dennis,

    Thats not a problem. The water in the boiler is only used to produce steam and to heat the water for the shot - via the heat exchanger.

    Fresh water us drawn from the mains (or the reservoir in Robustos case) each time.

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    If Caprice is going to be just 15 y-o in October, Dennis, Id very quickly ditch any tantalising thoughts of sleeping with her.

    --Robusto

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1175511560/30#32 date=1175553382
    If Caprice is going to be just 15 y-o in October, Dennis, Id very quickly ditch any tantalising thoughts of sleeping with her.

    --Robusto
    thanks for that - its great to start the day with a hearty laugh!

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Hey Dennis, your new teenager already has a name.....HIS name is Marco! * [smiley=evil.gif]:P

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Caprice San Marco Dennis

    --Robusto


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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Caprice hasnt moved since I took her out of the car and is sitting on the garage floor :-[. I have started tidying up the workshop to make space for her on the bench.

    So far, I only look at her wantonly and have resisted the temptation to flick her switch. Out of the corner of my eye I look across at my EM6900 and since she is made in China, I look at her won-ton-ly.

    I keep the machines in distinctly separate locations, so that they dont become jealous of each other, and of me. 8-)

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Ah so. Quite a harem. That temptation to power up must be powerful. How long can you hold out? Youre only human.

    Good thing the Giotto is there though.

    -Robusto

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    I know Robusto....get an image of Kramer in your head - "I dont know how long I can take it Gerry" :(

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Yes, the sea was angry that day my friends...like an old man trying to return soup to the kitchen. Oops. Thats George.

    But seriously, nake the call to the electrician. And what about the water supply --- plumbing as well?

    -Robusto

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Will certainly end up doing the electrician thing - he can also help me lift her onto the bench (shes not what you would call petite).

    At this stage, water supply will be from containers. There are three water pipes running along the concrete ceiling - one of these may be an option down the track.

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1175511560/30#40 date=1175676783
    At this stage, water supply will be from containers. There are three water pipes running along the concrete ceiling - one of these may be an option down the track.
    Dennis,

    Check the brand of pump. Some (procon is a good example) can happily draw water from a resevoir - even lower than the machine) others (my La Cimbali is an example) will self destruct if you try as they require positive mains supply. (Gets expensive when pumps are wrecked :( :()

    La Cimbali (with their brand of pump) say never ever run the machine without at least 3.5 Bar pressure on the supply.

  43. #43
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    There is a not-too-cheap but alternative where plumbing-in is a must for the pump, but you nonetheless want to havie a tank.

    On my boat Ive installed a pressurised water system, so that when a tap is open, the reduced pressure switches on an in-line 12-volt pump. *These, by the way, are self-priming, and fairly small. *

    They are high current draw (several amps) but also come in 240V versions. About $120.

    So, a hose from the tank to the pump, and from the pump into the coffee machine water intake. *

    When the auto-fill system calls on the machine pump to turn on, the reduced pressure will straight away switch on the in-lne pump.

    Since the system is and must be pressurised at all times (up to 4 bar from memory), this is one alternative to plumbing in.

    -Robusto




  44. #44
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    [QUOTE=JavaB link=1175511560/30#41 date=1175678672]
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1175511560/30#40 date=1175676783

    Check the brand of pump.
    Between you, Robusto and 2mcm, Im going to have a heart attack! Ive been running up and down the stairs (2 floors to the garage) checking under the sink, looking at the pump, water pipes, etc.

    The pump only has a sticker on it - nothing else and as youd imagine, the sticker is worn and illegible - there is however one word that is clear...."revoluzione". So, the pump is Italiano!

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    And old!
    The revolution was in 1848. :o

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    You crack me up TG ;D ;D ;D

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Thanks.

    Its just that my son works for an auction house that sells a lot of catering equipment and I noticed a while back that theyd advertised a grinder with the brand name "Attenzione".
    Its seems they also have a lot of equipment produced by the popular "Achtung". ;)

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    [QUOTE=Dennis link=1175511560/30#43 date=1175684150]
    Quote Originally Posted by JavaB link=1175511560/30#41 date=1175678672
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1175511560/30#40 date=1175676783

    Check the brand of pump.
    Between you, Robusto and 2mcm, Im going to have a heart attack! *Ive been running up and down the stairs (2 floors to the garage) checking under the sink, looking at the pump, water pipes, etc.

    The pump only has a sticker on it - nothing else and as youd imagine, the sticker is worn and illegible - there is however one word that is clear...."revoluzione". *So, the pump is Italiano!
    Dennis you wont have a heart attack, but your fitness level will substantially increase. Who knows, by the end of all this you may even get strong enough to lift the machine all by yourself.

    -Robusto

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1175511560/30#43 date=1175684150
    Between you, Robusto and 2mcm, Im going to have a heart attack! Ive been running up and down the stairs (2 floors to the garage) checking under the sink, looking at the pump, water pipes, etc.

    The pump only has a sticker on it - nothing else and as youd imagine, the sticker is worn and illegible - there is however one word that is clear...."revoluzione". So, the pump is Italiano!
    Most great creative types suffered for their art..... why should you be any different?

    Mmmm, no visible brand name.... makes it hard. My pump looks exactly the same as the procon, but as I posted in an earlier reply to Robusto, it has a higher flow rate and requires mains pressure on the supply side....

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3 Group 1992

    Nice posting guys...........great entertainment!
    Dennis............good luck with the resto.
    Robusto, surely room can be found on your boat for the Grimac.

    Im going back a few pages here but my favorite reason to justify something [like a coffee equipment obsession] came from Homer Simpson, and he said to Marge.....

    "Well!!!! you bought a smoke alarm and we havent had a single fire!"



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