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Thread: Sullos Azkoyen Bravo 2E 2Grp Rebuild

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Sullos Azkoyen Bravo 2E 2Grp Rebuild

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    resisting the urge to power up Im afraid I didnt get to see her working - Abbey the Azkoyen Bravo - no matter I wanted something to work on anyway,
    Got emailed the parts diagrams and now I have a machine in front of me on teh bench, albeit engine dolly - this machine weighs 50kgs!, want to make sure Im connecting things right and I know what Im looking for, its got a procon pump so Im goiing to pull off all the covers and see whats inthere and id parts first before I go gungho...

    Any suggestions?

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Congratulations Sullo, and welcome to the Extreme Machine end of town.

    Keep Miss Silvia powered up because a coffee or ten may come in useful throughout your journey of discovery.

    So you dont know whether the machine works? Does it need any work?
    Does it need descaling?

    If you are itching to dismantle, Id take lots of pictures of the set up, from all angles. Comes in very handy later.

    You may want to remove every nut, bolt and pipe and descale with citric acid, along with the boiler of course. Perhaps that is not necessary though if it is in pristine condition and has been run on softened water.

    Perhaps you can disable an element and power up the machine on a normal circuit to see what goes.

    New group seals may be advantageous. The groups --Id dismantle one of them, keeping the other intact for reference of where all the bits go.

    Have a look at the condition, whether it drips, whether the solenoids work.

    Have fun

    Robusto




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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Hey Rob

    I couldnt help myself had to give her power!
    This puupys got a three stage boiler ie can be run on 5/10/20 amps via the switch on the front of her, 0-1-2-3, so I turned it on and after a few seconds I can hear a buzzing down where the procon pump is, I had the water pipe in a bucket to see if itd suck but didnt, after a few attempts I noticed the boiler getting warmer just slightly warm, i pressed the service buttons and they all click on and off but Ill deal with those later its the pump Im trying to investigate first.
    Abbeys on a engine dolley and if I rock her side to side I can hear water sloshing around in her belly (boiler) so I know its got water, how much I dont know.
    What I want to do is bypass the machine to the pump to test if the pump is working and use the manual filling valve so I can be sure that its working.
    Once I test it all and is working so I can say yes it works It will be striped much the same as what Phil Jeffery did to his machine, citric acid here we come..

    Now Im on the hunt for info on these procon pumps, if anyone can point me in the right direction Id be happier then I already am with this monster...

    THE JOURNEY BEGINS!!!!

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Ah, that muti-switch is handy.

    Is there no sight glass to tell the boiler water level? Id be wary of having an element switched on without the certainty that it is immersed.

    Procon have a website.

    It didnt suck, but did it go through the motions?

    To fill manually bypasing the pump, you need mains pressure water.

    The volumetric dosing buttons switch on the pump, flow meters measure the amount of water which has passed through, then give a single to switch off the pump. No water, no pumping, no function.

    You can try temporarily hooking up a garden hose via an adaptor to the water intake hose. (Flush the garden hose thoroughly first)

    Yes, the fun begins.

    -Robusto



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    Senior Member Lizzie's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Sullo, be careful witht a garden hose... they can have a rubber-like taste taint which is persistent and might stay present in the boiler.
    if you want to use a hose, get a specific food grade water hose... generally white/pale blue reinforced.

    oh, can i come and play??? such a nice red toy.... :D :D

    L

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    this is going to be a long night I can see it already, going by procons site its got a series 2, trying to remember how to test the motor, will leave her in her paneless state for the night whislt I go thru the parts diagrams I had a laugh
    good thing I have 3 more days off I had a laugh
    Ill go get some longer hoses and fittings and test with mains pressure tomorrow see if that does anything, might be good idea for me to call diamond and get their opinion.

    Im so loving this :D

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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Good exploded diagrams for the Bravo on www.iberital.com if you need more. Follow the catalogue links.

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    SHE WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

    I dissassembled the pump and the motor and pump is WORKING

    all the volumetric buttons are working, motor runs everytime beautifully!!

    only thing not working is the hot water service but that was expected, water is coming out very clean which was unexpected, boiler is warming once its up to pressure Ill test steam valves!!

    WOOOOOOOHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    can you tell Im excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D D :D :D :D :D :D:D

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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Sullo,

    Good one.... at last a happy man!!

    By the way, many machines (mine is one) wont produce hot water until the water is ....emmmm.... HOT!!!! funny that!

    Try again when the boiler is up to pressure.

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    yyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooo

    sorry everyone im excited! :D

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    I VE GOT STEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    woohoooooooooooooo

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    Senior Member Lizzie's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    VE GOT STEAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    woohoooooooooooooo
    "Sullo the steam engine..... whoohooo... whoohooo " ;D ;D ;D

    fantastic, Sullo!! you must be having tons of fun there....!
    ;)

    L

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    just tried a shot, had too,
    the noise in the group head came back, although I think I mightve choked her slightly, not to calibrate grinder again!
    which reminds me better taste the water and flush her thru a few times, with the noise when I was playing earlier after runnign abit of water the noise left me, now shes running hot Im guessing thats got something to do with it..

    FULL STEAM AHEAD CAPTAIN! gotta try teh steam thingy now !

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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    cmon pull us a shot!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    jesus sounds like its going to explode I had a laugh
    think a back flush might be well in order heheheheh ;D :D

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    ive emptied the boiler again and trying to refill it, as the boiler still has a fair bit of warmth could that be why it keeps tripping the circuit, Im running abbey on 5amps not her full20amps ??

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    ok even with boiler cold its tripping out are these things like atms where you can disconnect devices to work out whats tripping what out?

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Sulllo, sounds like the element is leaking to earth. But what exactly is tripping -- your power board, or household safety switch? Is it happening during warming up or only when you press a touchpad?


    -Robusto

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    okay after a few attempts, and talking to pedro, disconnected the elements - she trips - disconnected motor *- trips - disconnected group head elecrticals and buttons dodats - trips.
    Ive got it thru a power board style rcd doovey, Im not running it about 10amps and she trips the house circuit breaker as well as the rcd.
    Damn that black cloud
    should I remove all connectors from the element? Bro is convinced it has something to do with the switch.
    Would removing the element from the boiler totally be out of the question?
    oh yeah and shes tripping as soon as I switch on power

  20. #20
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Try: unplugging from the power board, and use a multimeter on the earth prong of the power lead and the live and neutral prongs. There should be infinite resistance.

    Now (with the machine still disconected from power) turn on the switch. Any deviation from infinite confirms a short.

    Test each elements in a similar fashion: one multimeter probe on the boiler, another on the terminals. Should be infinite resistance.

    -Robusto

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    In the mean time we totally disconnected the elements, we only had half disconnected I shouldve said earlier, tried with element totally disconnected and whalla she works and doesnt trip, put half the connections back on and TRIP!

    just tryed resistance on element, we removed it for poops and giggles, one element inf resistance other two get resistance..

    am i correct in assuming buggered element?

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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Sullo,

    How are you measuring resistance..... between the ends of the elements (in which case you should have a low ohms reading....

    Or from the end of the element to the chassis.... in which case it should be open.... infinite ohms on the highest range.

    You only need one working element (you have a choice of 3).... and one has probably gone to earth.... you havent splashed any water or steam near the ends of the element? That can also cause the problem you have as it provides a path to earth.... and will trip the RCD.

    Geez.... you must be the unluckiest man alive :-/

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    once we figured it was element making it trip I had the great idea to remove it, I pretty much wanted to anyway so I could get a lookinside.
    I measured element to element, and looking at it doesnt look the healthiest lot of crap stuck to it, we are guessing that not been used for about12-18months that craps built up and me playing with it today has loosed the crud and zing! tripout.
    No matter time to get the bumscope in the element hole to checkout whats inside, dunno how to get a pic of that for yas..
    Wheres a good place for that citric acid?

    actually if only half the element is left connected and it tripped would that mean the element to boiler seal gone and providing path to earth?

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Abbeys hot bits exposed...




    are they sposed to look like this?

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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    They normally have a fair bit of corrosion and scale on them..... doesnt look particularly bad..... but not real good either.

    What has probably happened- a small hole has corroded through the metal outer of the element and allowed water to get into the ceramic insulation..... and that creates a path to ground for the electricity.... one dropped out RCD.

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Bad luck Sullo. (Citric acid is available at supermarkets.)

    Its possibly a little trickier to test which is the faulty element without it in situ, but you can try. You have to do it NOT between elements, but from each individual element terminal to earth--i.e., the boiler.

    Its most likely that the insulation on the terminal will be at fault, so if you have removed the elements, put one probe on the terminal end, and another on the insulation.

    Should be infinite ohms.

    But having gone this far, you may as well keep going and give the boiler a thorough soaking descale.

    If there is crud on the element, its also likely to be on the end of the autofill probe, so good idea to remove it and clean up the end to ensure there is good electrical conduction with the water.

    But first, mark the probe with a texta or sticky tape where it enters the boiler so you later put it back at the same depth.

    -Robusto

    --Robusto




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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Rob & Rob
    yep reckon your both right now Ive been playing with this,
    I was considering removing pipework and doing a Phil Jeffery and clean it all.
    At least now I know that the unit, albeit now without a boiler works, the pumps still pumping and the touchpanels are operational.
    Now the fun stuff REALLY begins, booyaaaarrrr

    Thanks for the help guys appreciate it :)

    Now I can temporarily get back to listing everything that was stolen from my car and stuff

    Sullos eerr I mean "BlackCloud"

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    Senior Member Lizzie's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    just been catching up with the last instalments: this is fascinating stuff... better than watching TV!

    : ;D ;)

    L

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Im sorry Lizzi I forgot to give it the New Idea treatment I had a laugh
    which reminds me SueB must be missing the daily soap about Silvia, who is remaining very quiet and responsive!
    Just been checking out the internals of the boiler, bit grubby in there. I wonder how many of us drink coffee from boilers that have same or worse, kinda makes you think about that next coffee in a place with an old machine now doesnt it?

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    Senior Member Lizzie's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    yum, yes :D.... but, in all fairness, the inside boiler-environment may be mineralised/gunked up, corroded and such, but it will still be relatively bacteria free...not many organisms survive those temperatures!!

    sounds like a pile of soaking and cleaning Sullo....
    how many more days have you got off??

    L

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Two more days off and I have to take car to assessors tomorrow morning,
    Im considering totally removing the boiler so I can stick a gerni hose into it and really get that crud out and then give it the citric treatment.
    Does anyone know if removing a heat exchanger is a good idea? OF al the techie docos Ive collected I cant finding anything relating to its removal or what its sposed to look like. Im wondering wether to gerni to remove most of the crud, then citric, then gerni again and re-assemble...
    For those that have removed citrused and cleaned boilers, the below shot is of Abbeys Left side, or as Ive come to call it, Heart Of Abbey - I wonder if shes got an Improbability Drive in there? Hmm too much Hitchikers again.
    I was thinknig it be better to crack open the larger hole around the smaller one where the element was removed from to get better access inside her and give her a good huck out?

    Thoughts?


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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    out with the old element in with the new once I clean her innards out



    and check out the yummy goodness inside Abbeys Heart, big fun with the gerni :D



    hopefully there are some who are as interested in this as I am :D

    back when I clean her innards out

    Steve
    One more day off!

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    I think Im having just a little bit too much fun here :)

    time to warm up silvia muahahaha

    yes that was a 2gp commercial I just so love no warranties :)


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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Looking at that Sullo, Id borrow a line from your science fiction pals: "Its life, Jim, but not as we know it". * *Hard to believe that the sole prupose of all those bits of metal in the ultimate scheme of things is to serve you up a streamlined coffee.

    You may as well keep going, remove the copper pipes *and soak them in citric acid (along with the boiler of course).

    Keep us posted.


    -Robusto

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Once I get enough photos etc mark pieces tag them etc Im going to go to framework, clean all that off depending on result powder coat or just paint not sure yet depends what I find.
    Never let it be said I do things half assed :D

    And to plagerise a sci fci quote,
    To boldly go where any normal sane coffee snob wouldnt go!

  36. #36
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Well after a busy couple of hours citric acid washing and partial reassembly Abbey shows off her new pink-ness, or maybe she just a bit embarrassed cos she is naked in this pic...
    So much work, Im lovin it, it will be the best machine in the end ........ I hope :-/

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Looking good Sullo. "In the pink" so to speak. Hows the inside looking after the pressure wash? Have you descaled her yet?

    By the time youve finished youll know her intimately.

    -Robusto

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    I had a laugh our gerni decided to pack it in, so I threw (gently) in the car and took it to car lovers! Jammed the pressure hose inside and went nuts, shes got pink inside again!!
    Got some interested onlookers, one chap wanted to know what it was I went into great detail about this new turbo boost system hence all the pipe fittings,
    he believed me and gave me his number fo rwhen I run the car!!! giggled like a schoolgirl
    I came home looked up gullible in the dictionary and sure enough there was a photo of him...
    Really fun part Robusto will be when I hook up boiler again and fill her up and sit there whilst she warms and pressurises to see if there are any leaks..


  39. #39
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Sullo, you are unbelievable. Who else takes a gutted coffee machine to...where else, but the car wash. I dont even take the car to the car wash!

    The turbo-booster shouldt leak with new gaskets at the element end.

    And you dont need to over-tighten pipe fittings to keep in the pressure. They should pretty much seal themselves with a firm turn of the spanner.

    But looks like youve got things under control.

    -Robusto


  40. #40
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Havent you guys figured that I do things in a odd way but usually get the result Im looking for? :D heheheh
    Seemed better idea then going to Bunnings and buying anew one and less mess at my place :)
    Boiler pressure wash for $4.00 ;D

    Hmm I wonder if I could boos...... nah I better not think that way, thats how I killed the Ristretto !

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    I can tell youre having way too much fun there Sullo! ;D


    Isnt it great to dive into the guts of a new toy and have a play? :) :)


    Hopefully this wasnt one of those washers that injects soap and other nastys into the water stream. That could give you a surprise of the most unwelcome kind in your cup. :P



    Java "Loves a new project!" phile

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    Oh heck yeah its fun, the poor thing didnt last 30mins in the garage before the screwdriver came out and panels started disappearing,
    As for the washer it said it wasnt washer stuff, sure didnt taste like it and to be doubly sure I hooked up the dog wash hose in the bathtub and gave it a final rinse before drying :)
    Todays fun - and last days off for four days, removal of pump/motor/electronics groups and wiring! :D Clean framework inspect then maybe I might start rebuilding if I have time, but Im having a coffee first !

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    Re: How do you prep a used semi-commercial machine

    I guess Silvia must be on her best behaviour....they always know.

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: Sullos Azkoyen Bravo 2E 2Grp Rebuild

    Your right Reubster she has been good, think its like a car when you tell it its going ot be traded in all of a sudden the engine starts purring etc
    I had a laugh
    Framework ready for reinstall ughhhh
    But still loving it! :D

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    Re: Sullos Azkoyen Bravo 2E 2Grp Rebuild

    Looks excellent! You wont be disappointed! looking forward to first espressos from the fully restored machine... Keep us posted!

    cheers, Mark

  46. #46
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: Sullos Azkoyen Bravo 2E 2Grp Rebuild

    Frames clean decided to leave it original and not paint, finish is still good just was full of coffee muck, dinnertime then boilers going back in!

    Should I be worried about air in the lines?

    Been an adventure Mark!

  47. #47
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: Sullos Azkoyen Bravo 2E 2Grp Rebuild

    Speedy work Sullo.

    I take the precaution on my machine-- probably unnecessarily now that it is plumbed in -- of connecting the pipe to the pump pressure gauge, but not tightening it. The incoming mains water then bleeds out the air, and THEN I tighten.

    Make sure the vacuum break valve on top of the boiler works -- sometimes they stick.

    Not far to go now.

    -Robusto

  48. #48
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: Sullos Azkoyen Bravo 2E 2Grp Rebuild

    Robusto, I was going to test run it not fully plumbed would that be a problem? ie can I use the bucket of water thing and also I was going to manually fill the boiler with a jug before inserting the level probe to ensure that the element was covered. Would that be a problem? Should I leave a steam valve open whilst warming up?

  49. #49
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: Sullos Azkoyen Bravo 2E 2Grp Rebuild

    I dont see a problem manually filling the boiler. But not much point leaving it unpressurised.

    Without pressure, water will just keep boiling, vaporising water. An you still wont know if things are air/steam tight.

    As the water warms, the vacuum break valve will stay open, expelling air. At a prededermined pressure it will close, sealing the boiler.

    You are obviously concerned about excessive pressures building up and blowing the boiler into next week!

    Certainly monitor progress for the initial heat cycle. Keep an eye on the pressure gauge, and note whether the pressurestat then cycles the element from set point.

    Best not to tamper with the steam valve.

    Is there no sight glass to indicate the boiler water level?

    -Robusto




  50. #50
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: Sullos Azkoyen Bravo 2E 2Grp Rebuild

    nope no site glass, its a 12L boiler my idae seeing as the element in so low in the unit was to fill with 4-6 litres so that way the pump still ahs to work and I can check by the level in the water bucket how much has gone into it, I cant fin d any doco that states what elevel teh boiler should be for normal operations...

    Well shes back in now to gently tighten all teh fittings after I have a quick chat with silvia!

    thanks for the help Rob
    Steve
    PS was easier getting her out then putting back in I had a laugh



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