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Thread: Rancilio S10

  1. #1
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    Rancilio S10

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hello,
    Does anyone currently own one of these (or have owned or operated). *I need any and all the Information you have please.

    Thanks,

    Ralph

  2. #2
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    Re: Rancilio S10

    OK, so what exactly does the external pump do? What are the pressure output requirements? Is it possible I use mains water pressure?

  3. #3
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Rancilio S10

    Gday Ralph,

    And Welcome to CoffeeSnobs [smiley=thumbsup.gif]......

    I guess before any of us can try and answer your questions properly, what exactly are your intentions with this machine?

    Mal.

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    Re: Rancilio S10

    My intenetions? Well, to make good coffee. I have 15A power point, lots of restoration skills and a passion for coffee, so why not? I am an electronics technician with heaps of mechanical and pneumatics experience as well. I have just bought an Rancilio S10/CD. It has the pump but no pump motor. I filled the tank manually last night and gave it a run. Everything as far as steaming seems to work. It makes nice dry steam and plenty of it. I can work out how the auto filler works and the blue momentry switch looks like its a manual filler using the pump(?). I notice that the brew switch also activates the external pump circuit but I havnt quite worked out how the group head actually works yet. It certainly passes steam (one more than the other). The left hand steam valve is also shot. Ive got a bit of work to do on it, but I think it will be a goer.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Rancilio S10

    Sounds like your the man for the job Ralph!!

    Good luck

  6. #6
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    Re: Rancilio S10


    Being unfamiliar with the Rancilio S10, I can only offer a few possibilities regarding how the group works. Most commercial machines use a 3-way solenoid valve that when not energised, will provide a direct path from the group to the drain. When brewing, this is energised and switches from the drain to the heat exchanger circuit, allowing brew water to flow through the group into the coffee.

    The group head may be heated using a thermosyphon loop, which is a hydraulic circuit that allows water to circulate from the heat exchanger, through the group head and back into the heat exchanger. It acts as a syphon, as the heat lost from the group head cools the water, increasing its density so it is less buoyant, sinking down the return line of the loop and back into the heat exchanger, where it is re-heated and so on...

    The group will also contain a small orifice called a group jet, which is used to regulate the flow from the pump. This eases the water flow during the initial part of the brew process. Without this jet youll be more likely to get channelling through the coffee puck as the high volume pump slams water onto the coffee. There is also usually a mesh filter just before the jet to prevent scale and other debris clogging it.

    Older Rancilios are usually well documented machines. Coffeeparts will have most of the parts you need and some useful diagrams. There are other sites that have useful exploded parts diagrams as well (just google it).

    Good luck with the restoration and welcome to the extreme amchine category.

    Cheers,

    Mark.

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    Re: Rancilio S10

    Thanks Sparky that is most helpfull. Now I understand thethermosyphen loop, but still not the brew cycle.
    When the brew solenoid is activated the port changes so that steam can enter the group and the pump is started so some water is entered to the group via the group jet. Is this correct?
    Only when I look at how the pumped water enters the machine it seems that is is ported into the bottom of the thermosyphen loop (at the bottom of the boiler).
    Is the pressure of the pump critical?

  8. #8
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Rancilio S10

    Gday again Ralph,

    Perhaps if you could post up some photos of the various parts of the machine you are referring to and that will be a great help in allowing us to help you more directly once we know what were dealing with.... Theres quite a variation in Group design, HX design, etc by the various manufacturers from older models to current equipment, so the more info you can give us the better well be able to assist. Quite apart from that though, we just love to see photos of commercial espresso machinery ;) ;D

    Mal.

  9. #9
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    Re: Rancilio S10

    the group head looks just like the one on the left of this diagram:
    http://www.coffeeparts.com/ran/ran4.html
    the pump looks just like 700009 on this page:
    http://www.coffeeparts.com/misc/motor.html

    I did some tests today pulling a shot with and without external pumped water. The results showed about half the amount of water without the pumped in water. I just used a garden water tank pump and let the coffee machine turn it on and off.

    Is the purpose of the external pump to provide high pressure and low volume or a lot of volume with low pressure?

    Looking at the design of the pump it looks like high pressure. Are these Procon pumps re-buildable?

    I will endevour to attatch some photos tomorrow.


  10. #10
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: Rancilio S10

    All espresso pumps deliver a minimum of 8 bars of pressure. Anything less and youre not producing espresso. Espresso by definition is made by passing hot water through the grounds using at least 8 bars of pressure. The volume pumped will vary from one model to the next.


    Java "All pumped up" phile

  11. #11
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Rancilio S10

    Hi again Ralph,

    Sounds like you need to peruse "Espresso Machinery 101" to prime you with the basic knowledge and understanding before you get started on your Reno of the S10. Some great info can be found here and should hopefully answer most of your questions :).... Some good general info to be found in Wiki too,

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    Re: Rancilio S10

    Mal,
    that link is awesome thankyou so much. I also found the Procon website. Im not sure however whether I have the series 2 or 4 pump. What I do know now is that I definately need the external pump. Any suggestions on getting a cheap pump with motor?

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    Re: Rancilio S10

    does anyone have any tips on how to remove old dry group head gaskets?

  14. #14
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Rancilio S10

    flat blade screwdriver, care and patience.

    Cheers

  15. #15
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Rancilio S10

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph link=1190287064/0#11 date=1190511912
    Any suggestions on getting a cheap pump with motor?
    Unfortunately Ralph,

    The word "cheap" turns this sentence into an oxymoron. These items are not cheap and while it might be possible to pickup a good deal on a suitable 2nd-Hand motor from an espresso machine repair centre, the same cant be said for the pump itself. I suppose you could try your luck and contact various repair centres around the traps, you might get lucky.

    Alternatively, you could buy a new combo to suit the S10 from Pedro at CoffeeParts, one of our Site Sponsors linked on the L/H side of the page, but you wont get much change out of $600 for the most economical system. All the best mate,

    Mal.

  16. #16
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    Re: Rancilio S10

    I ended up removing the whole group head, drilled through the gasket with a pilot and then 6mm drill. This allowed me to prise up the gasket and then clean the mating surface with a couple of nice sharp screwdrivers. I then cleaned it all up using some fine steel wool. Looking good now and ready for new gaskets. Incidently there was no group spacer under the rubber gasket!?

    Thanks for all your help everyone. CS is a great place for great help.

  17. #17
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    Re: Rancilio S10

    Here a some pictures of my new (well, very well used) machine.


  18. #18
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    Re: Rancilio S10

    can someone please explain this device to me? *On the left is where the water enters from the pump. *The two copper pipes at the top go to the bottom of the boiler (the return from the groups) and the one tube on the right goes to the inlet valve. *What does the needle valve tap do? *Is there a one way valve here somewhere?


  19. #19
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    Re: Rancilio S10


    My guess is a manual fill for the boiler...

  20. #20
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    Re: Rancilio S10

    Hi, does anyone have a manual or know where I could get one for this model of Rancilio (S10/CD) please? Thanks!

  21. #21
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    Re: Rancilio S10

    Have you try Rancilio Italy website;

    http://rancilio.it/rancilio/download_page.jsp?flag=1&id_cat=12&id_language=3


    if it not here send it a email to them.

    Regards


    Renzo
    Di Bartoli Home Barista Centre



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