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Thread: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Thought it best start a new thread for this puppy.
    As some may know Ive got hold of the LSM Dennis had and is going to get the "Sullos Treatment" (aka car lovers with the boiler) sourcing diagrams of where things go is a little harder then expected but none the less adds to the challenge.
    Coffeeparts (SITE SPONSOR) has some good diagrams of groups etc, but does anyone here have a big LSM Im trying to figure out where the drip tray drips to, theres nothing underneath it??? I got hold of this thing in pieces so once I get it back together I can then start striping it down to framework and rebuild.
    And it has this big foot pedal kinda thing on the bottom right? whats that for?
    If anyone can point me in a good direction Id be grateful and will add you to my will :D
    TIA Sullos

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    anyone? *insert smily that looks like a sad faced puppy*
    (Will this do Sullo?)

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    giggled like a schoolgirl! nice one Mal :)

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    whats a parker brand coil do? its not attached to the group on its own, I gave the LSM power and it sparked and blew the power circuits on pump only power switch??

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    anyone got any idea on this before I start playing with it and electrocute myself? hehe only kidding but am curious to pknow what its mission in life is on one of these machines

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    Senior Member Lovey's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Hey Sullo,
    take a look at this web page, its looks like its got some good info on it.
    http://tinyurl.com/2mkt26

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Much appreciated Lovey every little bit of info helps.

    thanks heaps :)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Hey Sullo - sounds like this beastie is a bit more complex than the Azkoyen. Be careful with those sparky bits!

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    yeah looks like its got some electrical prob, hard to diagnose without electrical diagrams or at least an exploded diagram. After reading a post earlier it seems that the 1-0-2 switch on the front the 1 might be full operation and 2 is pumps and electrics only?? I was told it was the other way around?? Once I get all that sorted I can start riping to pieces, but no point until I get it all working first, wellthats the way I do things yeah its ass about compared to some but its a way that always gets a good result :)
    The search continues.....

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Hey Sullo,

    I havent used your particular machine, but the three position switches usually work like this:

    0 - off

    1 - fill (ie. on, but no power to elements; use this when filling the machine so that you dont fry the elements)

    2 - on

    Parker is a brand of solenoid valve, from memory.

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    This may help - http://www.iberital.com/iberital/CAFE/SAN%20MARCO.pdf

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    Senior Member phil_jeffery's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Hi Sullo,

    The Parker coil attaches to the shaft of either a two way water solenoid valve, or the three way solenoid valve on the group. It looks like this when attached to the shaft...


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    Senior Member phil_jeffery's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    ...and like the below pic before attaching. The locknut and washer dont need to be any more than finger tight; just enough to prevent the coil from flopping around, but generally loose enough to allow rotation of the coil to the preferred spot for wiring etc.

    Its entirely possible that a shorted coil could be causing your breaker to trip (been there, done that!). The coil is about forty bucks without solenoid from memory.

    Good luck with it,
    Phil


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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Knewmans thanks heaps mate helps agreat deal your in my will now :)

    Phil, the coil in question isnt attached to the groups its a seperate one near the big assed rotary switch Ill photo it when in daylight, when I gave it power on setting one (your right Luca, thanks) nothing happenedd no pump movement or anything so I started fligking switches (as you do) the ones that turn on the groups big orange ones one for each group, (the volumetric ones didnt do anything) and thats when that additional coil sparked and rcd blew!
    Its a fun way to learn :)

    Thanks to everyone who helps out here boy am I going to have to have a big come here and have a coffee gathering one day whent he pavings done which I cant do(long story)

    thanks again

    Sullos
    One more day at work then Im at it again :)

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    I own the same model machine, but in a 2-group. I also still have the manual if you need anything out of it.

    Im certainly no expert but i have performed a few minor repairs to mine (o-rings, gaskets, steam wand assembly) that may make me of some assistance...so let me know if i can help.


    cheers,


    EDIT: not sure if youve figured this out already or not, but the foot at the bottom corner of the machine is to manually fill the boiler. You have to make sure the taps (under the drip tray) going to the boiler are in the on position...and the boiler drain tap is off.

    As for the switch...you are supposed to leave it in Position 0 (off) and fill the boiler to the 3/4 mark otn the sight glass using the manual lever...then switch to position "1" to turn the machine on (activate elements). After this you can switch the machine to auto-refill by using the green switches on the side.

    Im not sure what position "2" is for....but from the manual it looks like its for gas-fired machines to activate one element only. Not sure what it does on my machine as i only have one element enabled anyway (long story).


    Theres also a reccommended sequence for turning it on in the manual of opening a steam valve until water/steam starts to emerge from the steam wand....then closing it to build upto pressure.



    Oh, and the drip tray...there should be a TINY black box (like 5matchboxes) to catch the drips in the drop tray (two clear rubber hoses run into it) and then a big waste hose runs out the bottom of it into your waste pipe. Its a crap system because its too small and gets blocked with coffee from time to time.

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Zaka Id definetly want to talk to you about that manual!
    And again I dont have a sight glass on this boiler :(
    Yeah I think theres a few lil bits missing on this machine hehe

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    finally got around to photgraphing that part that sparked the other day, not sure what its mission in life is, its on the diagrams but no listing for what it is., its a sirai brand part Im guessing some kind of electro valve? seems kind of odd being connected to two brass pipes and just "sitting there" with no support?


  18. #18
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    i think i might pull it apart for poops and giggles

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Wow, was this machine part of some kind of demolitions experiment?...why the hell is the pipe bent like that?


    I can try scanning the manual for you, but its not terribly helpful beyond labelling the parts that are already on Coffeeparts and "boot-up" instructions. Only a few pages in english.

    But if you like, ill see what i can do?



    Also, re the sightglass (or lack thereof), just wing it. Use the manual lever to fill the boiler for what you think is an acceptable time (it takes a few minutes to fill that way) and just turn it on.
    The autofill will then kick in and do the rest pretty quickly. I wouldnt advise doing this regularly just in case, but as a one off....

    Also, you may try position 2 on the dial. I think thats "electronics on, element off", so that may engage the autofill. Just make sure the topmost green switch is set to Auto (not lit up).


    EDIT:....dont try position 2, i tried it on mine and i can hear the element kicking in. Not sure what it does.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    uhoh I dont have a green switch, but three red ones that turn the groups into manuals, its a volumetric!
    I had a laugh I can see this is going to be fun hehehe
    nothing like a good challenge at least it will give me something to do for 5 minutes :)

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    oh, well in that case, just use the red ones. Mine are green, maybe yours have been replaced. The top one is the one im referring to.


    btw, i love the switches. Not because i use them all that much, but because htey are such a great idea for an otherwise fairly electronic machine. The manual states they are specifically designed for use in cases of total electronic failure of the touchpads. So you get all the convenience of a volumetric machine with pre-set doses....without the massive expense of replacing those components if they fail (if you dont want).



    O...M...G....im SUCH a moron. For almost a year now ive been using this machine in Switch Position 1, and wondering why it takes soo long to heatup. Well a few weeks ago i bought a Wattmeter to measure how much it costs to run...and it showed up as 1000W...so i thought perhaps 2 elements were disable to allow the machine to run on a standard 10A circuit. But because my house has 20A circuits, and the one the machine is on is relatively empty, i was going to try and "reconnect" the elements.

    Well with all this talk of the #2 switch position, i decided to check out what it actually did (cos the light stays on, and as i said earlier, the element still kicks in so its not a "cold start" mode).....after plugging in the wattmeter and flicking it from #1 (1000W) to position #2....WHAM....3000W.


    What an IDIOT. haha oh well, i do blame the manual as it tells you to use #1 and only mentions #2 for Gas Machines...but still.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    I had a laugh mines rated for 5000W :D

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    My guess in position 1 is for coffee cart use.... or locations where there is only a standard power outlet (fairs and the like)....

    Position 2 if for where serious permanent power is available..... (or gas on the gas fired models).

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Sullo, a little hard to judge from the photo, but that sparked coil otherwise looks like an electromagnetic valve. Where precisely is it in the water circuit?

  25. #25
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    I get a photo larger so you can see it clearer

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    okay ive got a PDF of the manual for you....but max attachment size is 250kb (its 500kb).

    Where can i upload it to?

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Zakal,

    Get something like HJSplit (freeware) and that will split any file down to segments you can email..... the recipient then joins them back together again with their version of that same program......

    Very handy if your attachment size is limited!

  28. #28
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Or simply email it to him. :)


    Java "Keeping it simple" phile

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Robusto,
    sorry Im a little imobile at present Ive linked the below pic of the front of the LSM, the spcket spanner is sitting on the solenoid in question and the pipework runs to the right, hope thats clearenough pic..
    http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w108/sullosau/lsmpipes.jpg
    Sullos

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Well, if it turns out it is a functioning part (looks like it is - where do those split copper pipes from the out-take T feed into - looks like the other two groupos?) then Parker solenoids are available at:

    http://www.jumbocoffee.com.au/accessories/solenoid.html

    (Jumbo aka Coffee Parts)

    Parker solenoids look to be the same as Lucifers - if you look on Parker Corporations website in the US it seems that they own the Lucifer brand these days.

  31. #31
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Yep, Coffeeparts sell the ubiquitous Parker solenoids for under $30 --- bought one from them earlier this year for one of the groups. Very easy to replace.


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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    this one is a tad bigger then the group ones, Ill just rip this puppy pout and get that replaced, think its the 70-80 one, what it does still kinda confuses me Im guessing something to do with water filling considering the pipework its attached to

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    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    those of you whove seen the photo Ive just been sitting infront of the that LSM worship errr studying the pipework and the open and close valves on the far right of that pic linked to above, Im guessing that the top and bottom ones need to be in the open positions and the middle one closed as that leads to the drain, this seem correct ?
    as both top and bottom valves both lead to the sparky solenoid in question.
    Can anyone confirm this?
    TIA
    Sullos who cant sleep again...........

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Sullo, Ive had another look at that photo, Ive looked at your text above, and... my brain hurts. I cant figure that for the life me. Reminds me of some of my spreadsheets.

    Mind you, what would I know, Ive never looked at a 3 group with the fairings off in my life. Pass.

  35. #35
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    but I do love a challenge to boldly go where no one sane would go and that kinda thing :D

  36. #36
    wc63
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    http://www.italiansyrups.com/category/03.01.sanmarco/
    You might find more info here.
    Mike

    P.S. If you have more info on the La San Marco 85 I would also like it.

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp at  it again

    Hi Sullo,
    Ive got a single group LSM in pieces on my bench.
    Im having a problem with the wiring(it keeps tripping the circuit breaker when I try to turn it on.)
    Do you have a wiring diagram for yours?
    So far Ive pulled the boiler apart and filled it will citric acid/water but I cant get it to "turn over".

    Regards,
    Cameron

  38. #38
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Sullo hasnt been very well lately Cameron, hence hasnt been here for a while. He is responding to emails though, so you might like to contact him that way.

  39. #39
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Umm yep Im not really in a good way at the moment injury I got a while ago has hit me like a truck load of instant.
    Pills and physio doing very little, repair work ground to a halt.
    Im sorry I dont have any detailed docos

    The LSMs now up for sale for what I paid for it.
    Add to that Abbeys pump has sprung a leak so no coffee here for a while...Wont be able to pull her down for a look see for a while
    Bugger
    Back to the pain killers again, but I did get this done mainly for the kids.
    Prior to Abbey chucking a fritz and really it was fo rthe kids...
    Have a good chrissie everyone and hopefully be back here annoying everyone with my stupid posts again soon...
    Enjoy the pic no offence intended and for those not aware its a character called Darth Maul from my kids fav movie, Star Wars Episode 1 the Phantom Menace....
    Peace out
    Steve

    Sullos Cafe The best coffee in the Galaxy! :)
    (Had to get one last stupid post in :) )

  40. #40
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Sorry to hear about your pain Sullo.

    Ill try to track one down elsewhere.

    All the best for the silly season.

    Cameron

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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    Well get well soon Sullo - and have a great Xmas with the kids - Santa has certainly had a makeover judging by that pic.

    Cheers

    SD

  42. #42
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    This machine is still sitting in the garage unloved and unattended too and is for sale for $200.
    I just dont have the dexterity at present to work on it and its getting to me so it has to go.
    Sold as is...

  43. #43
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    oh and its pickup from west sydney too

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    Senior Member Lizzie's Avatar
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    Re: La San Marco 85/16M 3grp Sullos at it again

    I just dont have the dexterity at present to work on it
    bugger, Sullo, not good, that... :(

    good luck, mate!

    L



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