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Thread: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I KNOW"

  1. #1
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    This thing is going to burn my great beans"I KNOW"

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Well folks it has FINALLY happened!!!!1one
    We have HX
    My "partner" a far more genuine CS than I, used to work in this lil cafe they had this machine that made great coffee, this was all in the distant past.
    We have been looking for some time and PMing the brethren here for clue on "prospects", all these prospects were weighed up against the "old Baby" she used to use. Finally 2 weeks ago at the sorry end of an evilbay fight I said "will you just call those people and at least find out what the heck we are comparing everything too?" the call was made and yes they could tell us what it was because "ITS IN THE GARAGE"......ZOMG...." ok well if its.....there... do you think you might ......sell it?"...yes $50 will see it yours..and by the way the 2 group machine we replaced this with never made as good a cup, we wish we could use it here but we cant"..... As a result of this...WE HAVE IT.


    What is it I hear you ask? ancient external pump Boema...I can just hear "fresh Coffee" saying "its a coffee burner" But my view is this and I really believe this "if it made good coffee once, there is no good reason why it cant again."

    it has fitted a timer (which we believe was fitted later but unsure) Judging from the wiring diagrams this can be bypassed.
    The Boiler in this thing is bigger than most steam trains.

    Its the worst time of year to get parts I know but Ill leave messages @ Boema and see what happens

    The motor and pump are now working, the plate at the back of the pump was badly pitted so replaced it with some 316 SS 2mm plate (hell of a time getting the C clip off, it broke into 4 bits) but now she works a treat..no leaks there even under back-pressure.


    anyhow pictures will follow....need some advice though please.

    Id like to fire it up but Im afraid of cooking the elements. Does the RL40ES look after the "zero water in boiler" status and not allow power to the elements before the water level sensor reads water?


    This being OK is there anything else to worry about before the juice is applied?

    I know I need patience But i want it NOW!


    PS. someone tell me this is not going to burn coffee

  2. #2
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    Great stuff snooooze,

    Cant wait to read your progress reports and of course, those photos..... ;) ;D

    Cheers mate,
    Mal.

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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    Nice work, and what a bargain! I must say Im no fan of the Boema aesthetics which is a shame, but at least it sounds as though they can make good coffee. Im not a HX expert but I believe you can adjust the pressure without too much difficulty, which in turn should have an effect on temperature.

    Greg

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    Congratulations Snooooze. Should be great fun exploring the machine. Id try to get a manual from Boema, but in the absence of one, obviously make sure the boiler is filled with the right amount of water before firing it up.

    It wont hurt to thoroughly flush the boiler and heat exchanger to eliminate stale tastes, plus a good backflush with coffee cleaner.

  5. #5
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    thanks guys

    I guess I can take out the water probe and manually fill the boiler, replace the probe and connect the water......then flick the big switch.

    hoping that it will not go...... spft


  6. #6
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    OK photo time

    1






  7. #7
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K



    2.


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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K



    3.....but I guess you can count


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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K


    4. Auto Fill switch that does work...Ill post todays efforts at the end. Notice the Blue tac securing this in place.


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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K



    5. This was yesterdays effort new pump plate


  11. #11
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    ok Today.

    We needed to fire her up and see what we needed to buy in the way of seals/elements/switches/valves/more thread tape

    I was unsure of auto fill (or in fact manual fill) so we pulled out the relief valve and watering canned in water, closely watching the sight glass.....nothing happened! took the lower pipe off, no water came out of the boiler...poked a small screw driver threw the hole and wiggled it (through the scale) then we had water...few leaks easily fixed on the sight glass. What do we do now? plugged in the power and water to the pump. plugged the 3 pin plug into the lead....flick the switch....watch listen..... front element light came on. Top pipe on the sight glass started to hiss, nipped that up and stopped it....boiler started to make that "electric kettle noise" pressure gauge started to climb. 140 kpa the pressure stat clicked off light went out. opened the steam valve ...hiss splutter Steam, OMG this thing produces SOME STEAM. Opened the Hot water tap out came hot water...very hot water, closed it and it stopped rather well. OK pluck up the courage...hit the brew switch and pump sprung into life and in a few seconds water started to fall from the group. Time for some back flushing...3 lots of "special back flush stuff we had" no one can remember what it was exactly then a few goes with Citric acid then flush a few "hundred"times then replace the screen.

    Grind some beans slightly aged and pull her first single shot ..oh dear...hope we can better that. It was washed out and watery and the puck, well there was no puck really just a washy mess. Tried a few more shots with different grinder settings, got some slightly better shots but nothing even remotely right...damn. ok try some better beans. CS brown bay WOW to the rescue, slightly finer than Id grind them for the Pav lever, and GOD SHOT...unbelievable we all nosed it to test for that tell-tail burnt smell, not a trace. I tasted it, it was not bad equal to the pav. Time to go for a run at a double and same result. I cant really believe that a machine can sit unused for 10 years and perform like this. Those first beans we tried are now in the bin where they belong.

    Tomorrow we are going to clean the outside of the boiler and heat shields. I think for now we are going to use it. I prolly should take the boiler down and descale seeing as how easy it is to get apart, But Ill wait for the season to end and people to get back to work and get a group seal tank gasket and a few other bits and pull it down then


    The timer is not flauless and I still think we will either disconnect it or just not use it.

    Does anyone know if the panels are painted (great paint, bad colour) or are they powder coated? Id think the powder coating system may have been around when this machine was built, but it would have been young I rekon..

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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    Wow thats a top story Snoooze - the rewards of patience eh!

    Congrats

    If youre like me, youll keep sneaking back to the Pav every now and again - even if just to taste the difference with the same bean and the same grind!

  13. #13
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    Yes agreed SlowDown used the pav this morning it does give nice coffee...just in bite sizes;).....away to the bat mobile and the acid brush and trickling water Robin we have grunge to strip

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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    Bad news

    Yesterdays cleaning job went very well the boiler looks like (almost) new as does the pipework and panels it looks heaps better than when we picked it up....However

    We decided to fire her up for afternoon coffee yesterday and on applying the power there was this almighty bang and the outside of the element blew....maybe residual moisture but it was in the sun for 6 hours...anyway bit of a damper on the whole thing and especially today but I have orders a new one and some other parts so...we wait a while now.

    Pete

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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    Its just not a good time of year to be doing this!! ::)

    I got onto Boema (great people to deal with) they said a 2400watt element should fit so I got the measurements and the guy at Boema measured one he picked up out of the 2400 watt bin and it was the same measurement as the old one. He then explained there could be one much closer then he is and I gave the guy a call...yes he had one and we could come and pick it up. We set off on our adventure 90km drive (I took the old element) when we got there the 2400 was too long and he didnt have the 2000 watt one :). I called Boema he went back and looked and it was a single 2000 watt element in with the 2400 watt ones and thats the one he picked up to measure...ahhhh

    So we thought up some other things to order (save the freight later) new group seal and anti vac valve and a 2 0 0 0 watt element ;) our good friend at Boema made sure it got to the post in time for it to arrive today Friday (I need to go back to work on Monday so I would love to get the machine off the workshop bench and into the kitchen. The post office had the bag at 9 AM and headed up to the machine.

    Unpacking the contents of the bag we had received a 2400 watt element....DOH!!! its about 25mm too long ugghh

    Re-looking at the Original element its a double one so there are 2 lots of terminals and 2 loops of elements, being 2000 watt element each loop is 1000 watt. We decided to replace the old element and run it at 1/2 power.

    Ill post some interesting facts soon..have to go see how she is going.

    Pete

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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    OK today after some mechanical descaling we put the element back in and put a heap of Citric acid in and turned her on. took a fair while to heat up being only 1000 watts, started to drawer off the hot water and have it replaced via the boiler refill......but nothing was happening, no refill. th ecitric acid and the heat made the boiler fill probe inactive. If I de-powered the thing and removed the lead to the boiler refill and repowered it, the boiler refill stareted. De-power again and replace the lead repower and the thing didnt autofill.

    I think whats happening is that the presence of the acid was not allowing enough resistance to open the valve. I flushed the boiler and away she went...magic eh ;)

  17. #17
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    Ohh Dear...I wish we could go back to day 1 and start again...at least we got a couple of "better then we could have ever hoped for" shots........

    made some fairly nasty discoveries today >:(..and maybe some good ones ::)

    I went to the shed that is the temp setting-up home for the Aging Boema gave her a full boiler flush not get rid of any bits that were still showing up in the Hot water, I filled a 20 litre container with flushed water so thought that should do. Then I filled the boiler to safely above the boiler and let the "autofill" finish it, I then applied the power. Auto fill toped up the boiler and the element started it long job at 1000 watts to get her "up to steam", a full 35 minutes. I went and got our Nemox Lux grinder and with about 200 grams of Brown bay espresso WOW left and in hand time to try some more extractions.....

    Ive been reading up on some of the other forums about the "Wet puck blues" gave me some hope or at least made me not worry about it.....but it was leaving the shower screen very dirty



    Dirty eh



    Now...
    I think there is a very good reason for this, I removed the shower screen for cleaning...


    and as you can see there is a broken screw holding the shower head in place ...."alarm bells"....right whats going on here?... >:(
    that whole thing looks a little small, measuring the diameter of the shower head/screen is 53mm o/d and the filter baskets are 59.5mm (or so)...me thinks thats a tad sloppy so there is like a gap of 3mm all the way around the outside of the filter basket...time to regroup (no pun intended)

    local ex-cafe has a newer 2 group machine still in place so we went to visit it, we found that its filter baskets just fit with maybe 1mm to spare not over 6...this can not be right. the owner was with us and said to take her grinder to better trouble shoot the probs (a boema grinder) which we did. It gives a way more even grind than the Nemox but we could not nail the grind for our beans before we ran out of beans (note to ones self). Ive been doing some looking on coffeeparts and found some interesting things.

    I think our group head is the same as the one that is shown on Coffeeparts for the Aurora http://www.coffeeparts.com/aurora/aurora1.html
    and Brugnetti if its not the same its the same design but may be different on the inside.



    Seeing as our machine could be as much as 35 or so years old there have been many hands laid upon her and some may not have been so kind as to care about such things...I just wonder if there is a solution to this state she is in? We really want to get her going! well get her going better anyway...on that first day after she had lay Idle for all that time she came good with a few GREAT shots....I really can not see how she was able to now!

    just perplexing
    in a bit of a gutter here

    SnoZ

  18. #18
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    You are really speculating too much IMO. Do you really think the size of the plate/shower screen is responsible for bad shots when you have really done little to no work on a machine you yourself say may be up to 35 years old? I can tell you right now the size of the shower screen on my Carimali Uno is no bigger than 53mm, and it uses full 58mm baskets and pulls fantastic shots.

    I think a full strip down should be done on this machine, and replace ALL seals while youre at it. At least get the group off and give that and all its parts (minus seals etc) a day or twos soak in backflushing detergent and then follow that up by a few days citric acid (the warmer you keep your solution or the more often you change it, the less time you will need however).

    Best of luck with the restoration, Im sure you will find it a very fulfilling and educational experience :)

  19. #19
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    As posted Andy it was not a good day I think we were chasing our tails with the grind and missing the "Spot" very bad technique I know. As for not doing little or no work...hmm I think you should talk to my partner about that or her father, who has been helping me for the last week working on it basically full time. I may not have pulled the group off yet but that decision was made under recommendations from Greg at Boema saying there may not be seals available (we would probably be able to make them) But more importantly that "if you have got some good shots and done a heap of back-flushing then do not pull the head off, and look after that 3 way valve we cant supply you with replacement one" I have been looking on CoffeeParts for a non genuine one but untill Pedro gets back on the 7th I cant ask the questions that I need answered before I decide to pull the G/H off the boiler manifold and strip, clean, rebuild. I "think" (more speculation) there maybe a problem with the 3 way valve because today on my 2nd breakfast shot I got a small sneeze from the group as I was removing the handle (reminiscent of the Pavoni lever sneeze). I hope the Marzocco "Parker" 3 way is compatible (http://www.coffeeparts.com/mar/mar1.html).

    The Machine is installed now tho we are still waiting for the element. I needed to get the plumbing done before i go back to work or it will be easter time before I get another chance to get to a task that size :( .

    As always all advice is welcomed thanks AndyNZ

    Pete

  20. #20
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    I wouldnt get too down about possible eventualities snooooze, with commercial machines (even old ones) it is always possible to find parts that are a close replacement should this ever become necessary. Id just go about the resto process in as logical and progressive a manner as possible and should any components require replacement/repair at some point then concentrate on resolving that as each challenge pops its head up.

    When its all said and done, there are a lot of similarities between the vast majority of commercial machines and it should always be possible to work around anything that tries to spoil it for you. After all, in the end it is but a machine and if anyone can help you out, Pedro is definitely that man..... :) 8-)

    Cheers mate,
    Mal.

  21. #21
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1198311311/15#19 date=1199170288

    ......Snip....

    When its all said and done, there are a lot of similarities between the vast majority of commercial machines and it should always be possible to work around anything that tries to spoil it for you. After all, in the end it is but a machine and if anyone can help you out, Pedro is definitely that man..... :) 8-)

    Cheers mate,
    Mal.
    Thanks Mal

    I just tried a few shots this was the last. First ones were not so good...even after about a litre of water through the Group after the Pressuresat cut off the love juice.
    The Camera wouldnt shoot the first few :(





    :)
    SnoZ

  22. #22
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    OK time for an Update here.
    New element Finaly here and installed.
    now have the loaned Boema grinder inuse.
    A few days of "getting used too" adjusting, tuning, and we have more reliable coffee.
    Been using Atillios "Rio Gold" and thats about all gone..about to start on the "Blue Blend" and my better half cant wait to try the "Mocca-Java".
    Greg at Beoma has been a great help he has provided guidance all the way. Very helpfull and Nice guy.
    Partners dad turned us up a Tamper out of "Gidgy" (sp) thats a pretty good fit for the double basket.

    Have to keep an eye out for a doserless grinder now...unless we can tame the Nemox :S

    Pete

  23. #23
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    onya Pete

    smart old machines never die ....

    they just train new owners.


  24. #24
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    Ta slowdown now she has a smart much younger partner and they look great together


  25. #25
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    Looks good.
    So too does the view.

  26. #26
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    View is ...yes very nice, we are lucky...todays coffee on the other hand...hmm.


    I have some work to do

  27. #27
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    hi
    the machine you have is approx 25 -30 years old
    the timer was available from new
    the RL40 level control is not the original.
    it is blue tacked on because it wouldnt fit in the original hole,(some technicians are lazy)

    as to parts
    when i need to replace a group solenoid on these early boemas i use the Aurora Base 703533 and a stardard group valve (3way) 700301.
    this is not a straight forward remove and replace,you will need to fiddle with the adjoining pipe work a bit.
    doing it this way makes it easier to service later on


    when you remove the group from the boiler you will find that the bolts are rusted and will break when you try to undo them. you will then need to drill them out.
    replace the gasket with Astoria Group Flange Gasket 700727 T

    Replace the element pressure switch with a Sirai 616597. this gives you more control over the temp.

    replace the element gasket with Brazilia Teflon gasket 400826 T

    replace the Boiler safety valve with a Astoria 700217

    fit a Astoria anti vaccuum valve 618968
    we do these last three changes are needed to all Boema machines

    the numbers quoted are coffee parts numbers.

    if you want to replace the timer or need any parts boema cant help with email me and ill check my stock

    graham

  28. #28
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I K

    WoW

    you seem to these machines very well !!

    Thanks Graham

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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I KNOW"

    I thought Id revive this for an update and poke my head back in even tho Ive been here for the beanbays and all, Ive not been on the forums!
    back on topic.

    Well the old dear has been making some truly wonderful coffees! Im about to buy filter basket and tamper from Greg, but the best new is that as of about 3 weeks ago the auto fill just started to work 100% of the time (not just at startup and stop when the machine it hot) Very happy about this. it like it just woke up, dusted off and got to work. I know thats a tad dreamy.

    I wonder if its just because of the colder weather, I guess time will tell.

    We so <3 this machine.

  30. #30
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I KNOW"

    Loved reading this thread Pete.

    The old girl(?) appears to be getting better with age. Im curious - with such a large element, do you leave it on all the time or switch on when needed? I imagine it wouldnt be too friendly to the power bill.

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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I KNOW"

    another oldie thread :)

    on my power bill if your running 2000w it would be about .46 cents per hour. I pay 23 cents per KWH but i pay a bit more for green power (by choice).
    depending on cycle time maybe 35 cent and hour?
    my carimali is 3000w so 69 cents for me (worst case)

    yeah run full time adds up, pro costs little more than the Giotto Flynn aus? Cycle time may be shorter for the boema?

    Snooze can you time it for us, i would like to know as mine is seeming to have a very short cycle

    thanks
    Leeham

  32. #32
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I KNOW"

    A challenge...WoW
    we have our coffee only at breakfast

    Monday to Friday this is one cup each for Anna and I ( I know this seems extravagant bit this is coffee snobs and if you think it is then...mebe you are in the wrong part of the interwebs) I get up turn her ON open steam valve till the auto fill stops, go turn PC on, have a nature break, throw a shoe at the dogs to shut them up, back to PC check emails/evilbay/all my forums. then back to Anita and 3 flushes Grind...make my coffee...Anna is prolly 30mins behind me she makes her cup and after the clean, turns her off so weekdays she may be on for 90 mins tops.

    Sat Sun and pubhols Anna has the same but I have from 3 -5 depending on the week and what we are doing, over a much better, slower, tastier breaky. maybe on for 3 hours.

    Warm up time is about 20 mins but tomorrow Ill let you know in detail and Ill also watch for the cycles.

  33. #33
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I KNOW"

    Thanks snooze

    I saw a couple of Boemas at an auction today, there was a 2grp that must have been built about the same time as yours had that same sticker on the back and the same Knob style controls.

    I bid on the more modern one 2grp volumetric but the vendor wanted nearly 10 times my bid for a machine of unknown condition and no group handles......... :o :-?

    i could have passed it on to someone to make coffee with rather than it sit there rotting and useless...... :(

  34. #34
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I KNOW"

    Thats just sad "sux 2 b him" Id say maheel


    OK I just took some notes this morning,
    from power up to element light off too 17 mins
    after I made my coffee it cycled 15 mins off then on for 25 seconds

  35. #35
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I KNOW"

    thanks Snooze hope the coffee was nice :)

    hope the view is still the same :) would make bad coffee seem ok....

    my pstat is really needing some work i think or there is a leak i cant hear somewhere time to open the tool box :)

  36. #36
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I KNOW"

    I had a small leak at the sight tube, easy fix, always worry about breaking the glass tho
    Good luck with the pstat

  37. #37
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    Re: This thing is going to burn my great beans"I KNOW"

    Ordered new double basket and spring plus new tamper from Mr Pullman, about to order new burs for Pedro.

    I also noted somewhere timber handles...might have to give the "father in law" another turning job. I ordered a Jarrah handle for the tamper as this is what our benches are, it would be nice to have a handle the same 8-)




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