hallo, today I look dalla corte mini , good machine ! great steam ! (vapore)
I do not know other... ::) the coffè is good and you control the temp (pid) molto pesante 22 kg
but I want to see dalla corte super mini !
Im looking for a price and Aust supplier for a Dalla Corte Mini. Can anyone help?
Im assuming this is a pointy end machine, but if not feel free to move the thread
somewhere more appropriate.
Do any CSers actually own a mini? Anyone got thoughts on how the mini compares to
other more commonly avialable 2xboiler machines - eg. S1, others?
hallo, today I look dalla corte mini , good machine ! great steam ! (vapore)
I do not know other... ::) the coffè is good and you control the temp (pid) molto pesante 22 kg
but I want to see dalla corte super mini !
This one is presently in transit to our bench- for evaluation....
It will be interesting to have a look over it and potentially add a machine with dual boilers and a saturated group to our range. More info as it becomes available...
Info from manufacturers website states:
The Mini is the smallest espresso machine in the world in which the temperature of the group head boiler is thermally independent from the
steam boiler. It brings about a revolution in the area of traditional espresso machines for household use. The Mini uses the same group head as the Evolution Series resulting in perfect espresso extraction and taste
· absolute temperature stability through Direct Temperature Control System (DTCS)
· user adjustable temperature of brewing head
· low service and maintenance costs
· up to 30% energy savings with respect to “comparative” machines (in “stand by” operation)
· automatic boiler filling
· self contained water supply and drain tray
· steam boiler (1.5l)
· cold water tank (3l)
· group boiler (0.5l)
· alarm signal (alerts user when tank filling is required)
Dimensions (w x d x h ): 255 x 390x 350
Thermal output: max. 2 kW
Connected load: 240 Volt, 50/60 Hz
Weight: 22 kg, 48.5 Lbs Constant, perfect espresso taste!
Would you be looking at the super as well Chris? :)
thats bizarre chris. i was JUST about to post a question regarding the impact of group head designs like the
VBM dual boiler
for a dual boiler setup.
seems that ONLY saturated groups were meant for a DB configuration.
and someone pointed out to me LM GS3 / Synesso 1 grp / dalla corte
looks real nice. would love to see it in the flesh
Quite possibly MM- though wed be chatting on that one in the extreme machines section ;)Originally Posted by Martial Monkey link=1224459891/0#1 date=1224460352
Yes Aaron- I am wondering that as well. I guess thats where the Scace/Fluke combo will be handy. I can hit it with a WBC test regime and see how it stacks up....Originally Posted by roknee link=1224459891/0#2 date=1224460513
I should have it in the next couple of days....
Drool another tempter on the list :) ETA early next year or lat this year?
8-) Interested to hear what you think about it. I need to come up to the big smoke and play at the Coffee Academy soon. It could be a very expensive trip :)
someones gonna be saying bye bye mr solis... ;)
That Mrs Solis thankyou ;) and she has been having inferiority issues for a while now from the Italian Muscle Grinders on her flanks :)
Still need to narrow the choices a bit but I think I am getting closer.
In depth look at the Dalla Corte here http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/303831 for some additional reading.
I pulled a shot on this machine at Cafe Biz earlier this year. Its a great little machine. Id have one. From memory, the Supermini of this version (plumb in) is about half a metre tall... for some reason. It almost looks awkward.
Mmmmm. Any idea of pricing? I see that doesnt have an ugly exposed E61, although Im not sure the juicer stuck to the front is a big improvement ::)
Funny thing the super mini is bigger, uglier and dearer than the mini ??
Sounds like it takes GS3 baskets as well. Time for a stock 53mm Tamper Range Greg ;)
A rotary pump will do that for you ;)Originally Posted by beanflying link=1224459891/0#11 date=1224481717
Good to see that you were able to get in touch with Tristan. *Like I said, I played around with it enough at the importers to be interested, but Id love to try it out with some coffee that Im more familiar with. *On the other hand, if this one falls through, you could always add the gs3 to your range ;P
Dual boiler/saturated group aside, I think that one of the coolest things about this machine is the fact that they actually went with sensible drip tray materials, rather than pretty ones. *Wire grate = nothing pooling on top, so clean cup bottoms. *Black tray = mess is more difficult to see. *This drip tray was clearly designed to look good and work well when being used. *Those shiny stainless steel plates might look good in the show room, but the novelty wears off very quickly.
The GS/3 has standard LM 58mm portafilters, not DC 54mm portafilters.Sounds like it takes GS3 baskets as well.
Yeah; finally a domestic machine that has been cobbled together from a proprietary parts bin instead of a generic one ;P *The point, of course, being that it has a saturated group ... but lets not get ahead of ourselves and turn saturated group into another buzz word like dual boiler. *I see that doesnt have an ugly exposed E61, although Im not sure the juicer stuck to the front is a big improvement Roll Eyes
I wonder if you could take the wierd carbon fibre casing off it; itd look kind of steam punk. *Potential for nasty burning, methinks, but the e61s havent been that bad ...
quite correct on the PF dimensions I was speed reading :-[
I do love the carbon front 8-) Will fit in nicely with some of my other toys.
enough with this "saturated group" thing. Its a boiler-on-group design like the Faema family/Isomac Venus/Mokita/Ascaso Steel Pro/ ... There are major differences between this design and those of the LM GS3 and Synesso.
As for the temperature control, thats just depends on how theyve implemented the design, such as element placement and sensor placement, 3-way valve placement etc. The devil is in the detail. Each machine should be judged on its own. Im sure it will make excellent espresso as any machine in this price range will.
From my reading on this machine, there seems to be a significant amount of hidden detail aimed at making this machine perform as claimed. Given that the brew head is the same as found on their commerical machines, it should perform to a very high srtandard. I look forward to hearing how it goes on Chris bench...
Good point. Its certainly closer to the saturated group than anything else on the market, though, and, from the design and my total non-expertise in anything to do with physics, Id say that its not necessarily inferior.Originally Posted by Sparky link=1224459891/0#15 date=1224634214
Good point.Originally Posted by Sparky link=1224459891/0#15 date=1224634214
Well see ...Originally Posted by Sparky link=1224459891/0#15 date=1224634214
I used it at the distributors and it certainly interested me, but, ultimately, I was unfamiliar with the coffee that we were using and, so, was unable to really come to a concluded opinion.
Originally Posted by luca link=1224459891/0#16 date=1224642247
Id agree that its not necessarily inferior - but I personally doubt it is equal to the GS3 or the Synesso. ::)
As you have said before Luca, there is so much discussion about the relative merits of DB, HX, saturated group, big "chunk of metal groups"..... yada... yada....
These are all just techniques that various manufacturers have used to allegedly produce better results.... sometimes successfully - other times questionably so! And these are only a small part of the outcome..... with the nut at the end of the PF playing the major role in "what is in the cup".
IMHO its a bit like saying a conical grinder is the best (and with a K10WBC or Kony that is true)...... but does that mean a Sunbeam 0480 or a Krups (DeLonghi) KG100 (both conical burrs) are also better than the flat burr grinders? - I dont think so!!!
Making assumptions on quality of end product based on design is VERY dangerous. Its the implementation of that design which determines the quality - and that is especially true with espresso machines. And even that is only relevant with a skilled operator using the correct technique for that machine. Without that - all bets are off!!!
I would hope that no one is taking my comments as implying that this machine is awesome as opposed to expressing interest in what it might be capable of doing. But just in case anyone thinks that I am
I refer you to what I have said in this thread:... [m]aking assumptions on quality of end product based on design ...
andI played around with it enough at the importers to be interested, but Id love to try it out with some coffee that Im more familiar with.
and... but lets not get ahead of ourselves and turn saturated group into another buzz word like dual boiler.
andfrom the design and my total non-expertise in anything to do with physics, Id say that its not necessarily inferior.
JavaB,I used it at the distributors and it certainly interested me, but, ultimately, I was unfamiliar with the coffee that we were using and, so, was unable to really come to a concluded opinion.
I certainly agree, as I pretty much said here.Its the implementation of that design which determines the quality - and that is especially true with espresso machines. And even that is only relevant with a skilled operator using the correct technique for that machine. Without that - all bets are off!!!
I have certainly had terrible espresso from great machinery. In fact, over the weekend, I was showing a friend from QLD around Melbourne and we saw a place with a Synesso and Robur in the window, so we stopped in for coffee. My espresso was thin in body, bitter, garlicky and sour - I was stupefied as to how you could have so many things going wrong with one espresso. My friends latte tasted like a bucket of ash; probably would have been better if we had skimmed the crema off, but who should have to do that? As we went to pay, the barista noticed that I was carrying a siphon with me and we had a quick chat in which he used all of the buzz words like "clover" and allowing single origins to really stand out. As we left, I saw the Robur from a different angle and noticed that the dosing chamber was full. Later, my friend was generous enough to comment that having that awful coffee was actually a great exercise in building her palate, as it made her appreciate the stunning coffees that we had had earlier that morning all the more!
How do you measure closer? Thats a nonsensical statement given that they are different. Ill point out the differences that I can see:Originally Posted by luca link=1224459891/0#16 date=1224642247
A saturated group has a heating element located in a boiler below the group head. Hot water rises, so the heated water rises up into the group replacing the water that is cooling through the walls of the group. The brew water is drawn from within the group itself, or at least far away from the thermal turmoil of the boiler. This is an inherintly stable design as it minimises thermal gradients in the area where the brew water is being drawn from.
A boiler-on-group design has a boiler bolted directly above the group. Whiile it may seem similar, the heating element within the boiler gets much hotter than the required brew temperature setting up large thermal gradients that drive convection. There can be as much as 10 C variation between different parts of the boiler. In this design, the hot water rises to the top away from the group. Even with a PID stabilized boiler, the thermal strata will be very large. The group will be much colder than the top of the boiler. So where do you place your temperature probe and where do you draw the brew water from?
A saturated group is designed to get away from these sorts of problems. But even that design needs to be tweaked to perform well with the WBC protocol.
So I think its apples and oranges or chalk and cheese.
FWIW Ive tested the thermal gradients on my Faema Family. By drawing water from the bottom of the boiler, where its coolest, I found a progressively increasing brew temperature up to about 10 C the longer I ran the shot, before the cold inlet water began to turn it around.
So the question remains; how well does the Dalla Corte boiler-on-group design work? Id wager it works well, but not due to any mistaken similarities to other designs known to work well, but due to careful engineering of the particular design theyve chosen.
Chris from Talk Coffee (one of the Sponsors) will be evaluating this machine soon
We are awaiting on an evaluation unit to arrive this week...
Assuming that all is well and it performs well, it will be added to the Talk Coffee range.
RRP is circa $3.3k
Hi Mark,Originally Posted by Sparky link=1224459891/0#19 date=1224658525
Thanks for the explanation. It makes a lot of sense.
I liked it better in the $1500-3k section ;)
We have it on the bench...
The demo received is an oldie with the silver/grey plakky front and IMHO, not much of a looker. The black of the newer ones as per their website certainly looks a tad better.
Tristan generously sent a 54mm Scace down with it (thanks Tristan!) and I have employed my 54mm palm tamper ::) to pull a couple of shots.
Ill run the Scace over it and remove the cover and have a look see inside tomorrow...
The question to answer will be does this machine justify the extra spend over the LaSpaziale Vivaldi II/Viv II mini?
So Chris have you had time to bench test this puppy?
Thoughts, feelings, is it worth spending more then the vivaldi etc ?
Hi MM,Originally Posted by Martial Monkey link=1224459891/20#28 date=1225499836
I have used it for a week...The evaluation machine is a bit of an old clunker with lots of dings and a grey group surround. Only a mother could love that face IMHO (sorry Tristan *:-[)
Anecdotal Scace results indicate fantastic temp control and it puts a great result in the cup. Temperature changes on adjustment are rapid....(thanks Tristan for the loan of the 54mm Scace ;))
Im not so certain about the lack of a hot water wand, 15mm spout in the tank for filling ::) and the very average drip tray.
I feel that it looks a whole lot better in the graphics than in the metal, and we have to be honest- external finish and design are also important factors in most espresso machine purchase decisions...
I feel that I need to see a new one to make a final decision as to whether we will range it....Presently, I am comprehensively on the fence. The same $$$ presently gets you a rotary pump Vivaldi II....Its a pretty compelling argument I reckon...
Hi Chris,Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee link=1224459891/20#29 date=1225500890
I think that your own post actually presents you with a bit of a dilemma, to which the answer is to range the machine. *I suggested that you should look into stocking it on the basis that I thought that it might have some potential to produce good coffee and have interesting brew temperature capabilities. *The mini was very hush hush until this thread and now you seem to have made a case for it. *If you dont range it, you have just raised interest in it for someone else to sell it! *;P
It sounds to me like your main problems with it are that it is different from your other machines. *Isnt that the point of having a range? *The last thing that you need is another e61/box machine.
As for the drip tray, Id be interested to know why you think that its very average. *When I used it, the worst that could be said of it was that it was fiddlier to put it in place than it should be and that the materials looked cheap. *However, it struck me that the choices were actually quite shrewd. *I have long waxed lyrical about how awesome the wire drip tray cover is in comparison with the opposite extreme, a metal plate with holes in it, or the middle option, a wire grid. *The wire cover stays very clean. *Much of the time, espresso and liquid drips will actually miss the wire. *When they do hit it, they cant form a meniscus over anything and liquid that stays on the wire tends to slip down and hang off the bottom part. *The result is a clean top of the tray that reduces the amount of gunk transferred to the bottom of your cup. *I think that every machine should have these drip tray covers and I actually voiced that opinion to Synesso when they changed from the wire cover to the current one. *The problem with the wire tray, though, is that you can see the gunk underneath it. *Enter the plastic tray. *Its black, so you barely see the contents. *Clever, no? *From memory, it was also quite deep and had rounded corners, which made it more difficult for gunk to get stuck in them. *The only bad thing was that it looked like you had to be careful to make sure that the tab thing was positioned back into the machine ... looked like it collects the output from the solenoid? *Frankly, Id say that its probably one of the best trays that I have ever seen on a domestic machine! *The polar opposite is the triumph of function over form that is the giotto premium plus tray. *Its tiny capacity is the stuff of legends and the metal plate on the top looks like a total dirt magnet. *Put the two side by side and the GPP tray will look nice and shiny in comparison with the DC mini tray. *Pull a bunch of shots on each and the DC tray will be much less of a PITA and will look cleaner.
As for comparisons with the Vivaldi; this machine isnt as wide, its portable and it doesnt need to be plumbed in. *Its entirely conceivable that there are applications that the DC Mini would be suitable for that the Vivaldi would not. *I also wonder whether the group design of the Vivaldi wouldnt result in inferior performance to the DC Mini over successive shots.
As for the price, I reckon that at $3.3k RRP or whatever this machine will look a helluva lot more compelling than it does now when the 20% price rise hits the $2850 RRP giotto and bumps it up to $3420!
Anyhoo, Im still idly curious to try it with some familiar blends and see what it does.
Yes Luca, I guess youre probably right...
Looking past the design idiosyncrasies, its impressive. Once you get used to dosing low (deep 54 mm basket and low shower screen) the shots are very nice.
Now that the Scace, Fluke and software are communicating, I ran some more tests today...
With the machine set to 94 deg C as a reference, I tried 10 shots back to back (30 sec delays) allowing the p/f probe to cool to 60 deg between shots- rock solid temp and flatline profile within the shot. In another 10 random walkup shots, the answer was the same. Indicated at the dial was a tad higher (circa 1 deg) than the Scace readings, but thats easily fixed with the analogue control.
Our intention is to range this machine and it will be available via order. We will be discussing whether it goes on the benches in Melbourne and/or Sydney with Tristan....
Just to update you all on this, recent price rises have changed the equation and for the time being, well not range the DC mini...
We can obtain the machine via special order. The current price is $3740 + freight.
Why the heck-a-roo are they raising their prices? Surely they must have a gagillion of them bought at 65 euro cents to the dollar still sitting around.
$3.7k ... damn ... gs3 looks better and better ...
Im guessing if LM had the same mindset as DC, the price probably would have gone up accordingly also....Originally Posted by luca link=1224459891/20#33 date=1227069515
"why the heck-a-roo" ;D
Hi Luca,Originally Posted by luca link=1224459891/20#33 date=1227069515
FWIW, seems the price is for new stock. Stock holdings were quoted as zero.
When are we going for a play with a GS3? I could be tempted to sell the VS1 to YeeZa ;)
I could be tempted to buy it off you ;DOriginally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1224459891/20#35 date=1227073947
I need to head out to CoffeeParts again and drool over the GS3.
I see that the "Dalla Corte Super Mini" has a similar feature set but does have a hot water wand, bigger boiler and is plumbed-in.Im not so certain about the lack of a hot water wand
I guess being the "upsize me" of the mini the price tag becomes a "carry with two hands" job?
Some interesting points and nice pics
I dont really knnow what happened today but i ended up owing my boss for one of these?!?!?!? *:-?
We both went for the "Mini" with carbon fibre and will take delivery in 3 weeks! YAY!
Now i must say... i only mentioned to my employer that i had been ripped off on ebay over $1k and i was waiting for Paypal to "review" my claim and before i knew it...he whips out the Della Corte advertising meterial and starts dialing the phone number...5 minutes later im told i have a $3800,00 machine on its way!!!! i thought OH OH :-? What have i done!?!?!?! But it turns out i am paying considerably less than a brand new ECM Rocket....CONSIDERABLY less!!! *;D And thats what i have been looking at for purchasing for over a month now.
So if anyone is still interested in the Della Cortes real worls performance i can do my own little review from a barisata point of view.
I currently work with a Mirage from Kees van der Westen at Espressonistic Works B.V.
Its extremely reliable to within .first crack per shot constantly and uses E61 groups, 1 boiler per group and a foot operated steam mechanism....in other words, its a VERY expensive VERY shiny commercial 3 group worthy of eating your dinner off!
So needless to say i have come to expect the very best from my espresso experiences and i expect no lees from my eagerly awaited Della Corte!
Man i cant wait!!!!!
Stay tuned people! :)
Congrats on your purchase - keep us informed. I was looking seriously at the Super mini but when I was quoted the price (most of the way to a one group Linea) I quickly started to look for other options (still no purchase tho :().
Yes please I for one would love to read your review on this innovative machine.So if anyone is still interested in the Della Cortes real worls performance i can do my own little review from a barisata point of view.
That is one ugly piece of kit. I reckon youd have to tie a chop to it to get a dog to lick it.
Hope it produces a good cup.
OTOH I prefer the form follows function design of the DC mini to the typical E61 box. I love the innovation of the machine fitted into the compact form. I think it looks [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Perhaps....Dealbreakers for me were a face that only a mother could love, clunky internal build, poor finish, overpriced at the time and the lack of a hot water wand.Originally Posted by 213E342538363A3225570 link=1224459891/41#41 date=1249079413
I also thought the analogue control of temp- i.e if its not right, just remove the knob and replace it so that it is just didnt cut it against contemporary machines. For mine, I feel that the LaSpaz Vivaldi II was much better resolved and as for build quality and componentry, no contest...The DC simply didnt cut it at this price point.
For these reasons, we chose not to range it...
No Chris your not going to talk me out of it, If I cant have a GS3 then the DC Mini is my second choice and if you dont stock it then youll just have to miss out on the sale, one day that is. :)
Seriously, its all academic to me, but I do prefer the design of the DC Mini, over the LaSpaz.
Here is my thinking when it came to purchasing the Dalle Corte mini.
I was in the market for an E61 grouped chrome box after being extorted by guy who owns a cake shop in Melbourne(his details can be provided so nobody else gets ripped off if needed?)
I read a LOT about people who buy the E61s and shortly after upgrade again or at least wine about how they should have?
So i was offered a Dalla Corte at almost half the retail price wich was a little bit more than i was looking at for an E61.... Hard decision? NOT AT ALL!!! ;D
As for the lack of hot water wand??? well i dont drink dirty dish water(tea) so im not in need for one. Yes i will want to pre heat my cups but i only drink short drinks anyway so water from the group will be fine.
Does it look a bit funny? well yes...yes it does. But there is only so much that you can do to a 50+ year old design(E61) to make it any different right?
So tomorrow is the big day!!! :D I pick up my new machine and grinder and a bag of coffee from work and set about taking a few photos.
Next on my list... a Pullman Tamper and a naked portafilter.
THEN i will finally get a hottop i think??? maybe a new Mercedes AMG CLK55? and a mansion next to Hugh Hefner?
IT HAS ARRIVED!!!
I took delivery of my new Dalla Corte Mini and Ditting Vario grinder this afternoon. My wallet seems pretty light and i desperately need a propper tamper but so far im pleased :)
Ill post some pictured tomorrow as my kitchen is a bit dim after dark. I should have set it up using my old Nouvo Simonelli grinder to reduce the amount of variables but i always love the challenge. about 10 shots pulled and im not far off the mark. Im yet to stretch any milk yet but ill give it a try after dinner. I can confirm though that it has enough steam pressure to scare the living daylights out of my cat though ;D
Well there it is!
im yet to get a tamper so i cant do any real testing untill i order one from Andy (THANKS ANDY!)
All i need now is a nice kitchen to go with it...preferably one with some light :)
Gday Luke...... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Can you keep image size to a maximum of 600(W)x450(H) pixels please mate? Larger images can slow down page loading considerably, especially for people with limited bandwidth connections..... :(
If you are unsure about how to easily resize your images, this link will hopefully assist :).
Yes full report LukeOriginally Posted by 7F4658566C74330 link=1224459891/46#46 date=1250131998
A lot of people are interested
P.S congrats on the new family member ;)
After some peacefull negotioations with the original supplier i now have a tamper and a spare group handle waiting for me at work... now i need to find someone to nakedise(?) my spare group handle.
Regardless of what kind of tamper i have been supplied i will still be having one made for me by Andy as i have always wanted one and there is no point skimping now.
Full report soon..deffinately not before the weekend though as i have a couple of 15 hour days at work. Get an early afternnon on sunday though so i will take a bag of Tobys home with me from work and set about some actual tuning of both the grinder and machine so i am able to repeat shots. THEN i can make a full report :)
Thats if i make it through my work weekend in full mental health I had a laugh
To be continued ........
Do you mean Greg (Pullman) for the tamper?
Nice new kit btw