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Thread: 10 Amp 2 Group new machine suggestions pls, plumbed ok, vol, price open

  1. #1
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    10 Amp 2 Group new machine suggestions pls, plumbed ok, vol, price open

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi, seeking ideas on 10 amp 2 group new (or near new) machine please.

    This machine would handle ~6-12 fundraising events per annum of 300 coffees per session (all doubles, 97% milk-based). Intense back to back shots + concurrent steaming for 1.5 hrs, then variable either side.

    Would prefer 2 steam arms.

    Would prefer machine could handle full load on all outputs - ie both groups and both steam arms, for that 1.5 hour period. Minimum handling 2 groups + 1 steam arm concurrently.

    Reliability critical.

    No flexibility on ampage: 10 it has to be.

    Would love E61s.
    (I could then rely on my amazingly durable/reliable VBM Super Lever as matched backup, which has been carrying the bulk of this load 2-3 times a year!)

    Its never used for cafe service in between.

    Ive only googled a few so far that I think may take the load and meet some of my personal preferences: - Wega Nova EVD 2 Group
    - Expobar Ruggero High 2 Group Compact.

    Others on the list Ive quickly scouted out specs for but lower in personal preference (in no order) are:
    - Expobar Megacrem 2 High Group Compact
    - Expobar Megacrem 2 Group Compact
    - Expobar Elegance 2 Group Compact
    - ? Expobar Elegance 2 Group - specs may have had a typo as I think its probably a 15 amp?
    - Fiamma Atlantic Compact 2 Group

    What have I missed?

    Comments from anyone whos worked on any of these machines or others that fit the basic outline?

    It will be lovingly cared for, but will need to survive road trips.

    Thanks everyone.

  2. #2
    TC
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    Re: 10 Amp 2 Group new machine suggestions pls, plumbed ok, vol, price open

    Hello Intellidepth,

    I think you may need to rework things here.

    Your brief is a full on 2 group brief (at a bare minimum), not a compact brief. You will not get the performance you desire from a compact machine at 10A as recovery will be too slow and you will run it down. 10A just cannot heat that quantity of water in that timeframe.

    As for volume, realistically, a good barista might turn out 60 an hour- so if this is really what you think you will do, youre talking 3 staff with split duties and most likely a 3 group machine or 2 x 2 group with suitable provision of power.

    Sorry to bring bad tidings, but this workload calls for 15A at a minimum. If it was my gig, Id be specifying high capacity elements as well. I think its back to the drawing board...

    Cheers

    Chris

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    Re: 10 Amp 2 Group new machine suggestions pls, plumbed ok, vol, price open

    Agreed. This is full size machine specification, going straight into it from wanting to have 2 steam arms and full output from both of them + coffee.

    Plus you will find that not all compact machines are strictly 10 amp...

    You can add the BFC Diadema 2 group Compact to your list (at the top of course), and it will have 1 steam arm only and will run out to about 11.5 amps from memory depending on the location / input. A very nice machine.

    Hope that helps.

  4. #4
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    Re: 10 Amp 2 Group new machine suggestions pls, plumbed ok, vol, price open

    Like the others a compact will not keep up! Larger boiler size on restricted power will help but still not be as good as having more poke under the bonnet.

    Just for info my 3 grp (circa 20L boiler) running at 13A (3200W with one element disconected) copes well with 2 staff at a rate of 100-150/hour same thing all doubles and 90%+ milk. We use the boiler for LBs and cleanup too. Your 300 doubles in 90 minutes even with 2 competent staff on is a big workload (doable but tough) so some compromises may be needed.

    My call on price would be a 3 grp secondhand will be as cheap or cheaper to buy than a 2 grp as no one in their right mind (snobs excepted) would have a 3 grp on the kitchen bench this will give you better reserves of steam/brew power. Before buying it look at the element configuration and see if it can be wound back to suit your situation. My call is you still need a Minimum of 15A for the machine and another separate 10A circuit for the 2 grinders and fridges.

    Good luck* :)

  5. #5
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    Re: 10 Amp 2 Group new machine suggestions pls, plumbed ok, vol, price open


    Quote Originally Posted by 47607A6B6262676A6B7E7A660E0 link=1340554562/0#0 date=1340554562
    This machine would handle ~6-12 fundraising events per annum of 300 coffees per session (all doubles, 97% milk-based). Intense back to back shots + concurrent steaming for 1.5 hrs, then variable either side.
    Quote Originally Posted by 47607A6B6262676A6B7E7A660E0 link=1340554562/0#0 date=1340554562
    (I could then rely on my amazingly durable/reliable VBM Super Lever as matched backup, which has been carrying the bulk of this load 2-3 times a year!)
    How many coffees do you need to make in the 1.5hr "rush"? If youve managed it with a Super Lever, its obviously not 300 ... How long is your "session"?

    charlie

  6. #6
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    Re: 10 Amp 2 Group new machine suggestions pls, plumbed ok, vol, price open

    Hi, thanks everyone for your perspectives.

    Charlie/Jetblack; thanks for the clarity request: Around 75/hr peak from the Super with help. We also run pure steam and hot water off another unreliable antique machine to support the hot choc/chai/lb load. Typical day: 3 peak loads (late morning, lunch, early arvo), rest spread throughout.

    Id so love to go full commercial. Very few of the sites weve been at have ever had 15A or 20A access (or denied cable access to those zones); sometimes involving special wiring by a volunteer qualified electrician for the supporting 20 amp machine (I think hes over it), or a potential 7 month delay from the Department of Ed for approval of a free 20 amp powerpoint installation! And lugging around a ginormous piece of antique hardware gets offputting after youve done it a few times. I have no cart - the machine belongs to someone else.

    Any thoughts on running 3 VBMs - 2 Electronics and my Lever? It has only faltered slightly in a recovery once - took a few seconds of pause time, and that was when there were two experienced baristas working it jointly.

    Matched machines helps with basket/grind issues and I could source 3 different circuits easily for power in most locations.

    Ive noticed significant variability in barista styles - from the pro to the slower volunteer - each barista could feel in control of their space and speed.

    (Another personal benefit is that the cost/ownership could be split between myself owning one more machine, and the other additional machine owned by a community group. ;) )

    Chris-Talk Coffee/Fresh Coffee: thanks for the commercial reality check. I thought that may have been the case but had no experience there. Youve just saved me making a lot of unnecessary trial trips and frustration. Chris, Ill send you a PM about new Macap M4 burrs and M4 or M5 hopper - it has been a magnificent investment.
    Beanflying: I didnt know I could ramp back - thanks for that idea.

  7. #7
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    Re: 10 Amp 2 Group new machine suggestions pls, plumbed ok, vol, price open

    If you can play with your antique to make it serviceable then the following shot here to show your sparkie and disconnect one of the 3 elements (assuming it has 3) might make finding power for it a little easier. You wil see one of the links from the P/Stat has been removed (easiest in this case). The other alternate would be to remove a link on the element itself.

    Please dont play with this end, get it wrong is deadly :o


  8. #8
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    Re: 10 Amp 2 Group new machine suggestions pls, plumbed ok, vol, price open

    Thanks beanflying - I now know what to look for under the hood!



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