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Thread: La cimbali M29 (Basic) Help - Water Overflow

  1. #1
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    La cimbali M29 (Basic) Help - Water Overflow

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hello all Friends,

    I am a new bee on this forums site.
    Having a slow water leakage issue with recently installed (a second hand machine approximately 7 years old)
    Water is continuously dripping from the little overflow down pipe connected to the head group which goes into the base tray (connected to drain pipe)

    I tried shutting off the mains water supply - it stops after some time if the main water supply is turned off and slows down if mains water supply pressure is controlled by turning the manual tap valve (slightly shut) which means not fully open.
    Is it normal or is there some serious issue which I need to get fixed straight away?

    Please advice what to do to fix this problem.

    Regards,

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    It sounds like a bad or gunked up 3-way valve. Try doing a backflush or two or three and see if that solves the problem.


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  3. #3
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    Hi Javaphile,
    Thanks for a quick reply buddy :-)
    As suggested I've tried back flushing 3 to 5 times at different times however it did not make any difference so far.
    Can it be something to do with the little solenoid attached in between the head group and back flush down pipe?
    Please advice what should I do next?
    Regards,

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Have you backflushed with detergent? Not the kind for dishes but the kind specifically made for backflushing an espresso machine. If you don't have any it is readily available from many of our sponsors.

    That solenoid is the 3-way valve.


    Java "Keeping the pipes clean!" phile
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  5. #5
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    Yes, I did it with the detergent especially made for espresso machines cleaning, I think i should try for few more times as this machine was sitting in stoarage from the last 7 months before i bought and if there is any gunk sitting in this valve it may take some time to clear.. thanks again and I will get back to you after doing back flush again.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    If the backflushing doesn't work the next step I would do would be to isolate the problem part by swapping the coil with one from another working group. If the same head still leaks then the problem is with the valve. If the problem follows the coil then obviously the problem resides with the coil. If it's the coil that's bad replace it.

    If the problem stays with the head/valve I'd disassemble the 3-way valve, soak it (Just the valve assembly, not the coil of course!) in a detergent solution and manually clean it. Once reassembled, replacing any o-rings and washers in it, I'd do another few backflushes with detergent followed by ones with no detergent. If it still leaks after that I'd be looking at replacement.

    All of this presupposes you're comfortable and capable of performing this work and know how to safely work around electricity and water. If you don't know how to safely work around them then DON'T!!! Take the machine to a qualified service center instead.


    Java "Electricity kills!" phile
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  7. #7
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    Hi There, Thanks once again for your support, Would it be possible to have a copy of repair manual for this model?
    is it available online any link or suggestion please...
    Regards,

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Sorry, I've never seen nor heard of a repair manual.


    Java "Fixerupper" phile
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  9. #9
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    Sorry, I meant owner's manual.
    Great help, Thanks I got the valve replaced it was badly chocked by water scaling gunk. no leakage any more.
    Very kind of you dear Javaphile :-))

  10. #10
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    While there are manuals for several other La Cimbali models floating around I've not seen one for the M29.


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  11. #11
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    Hello Javaphile,
    It's been a long time since I have posted here. Just wish to have your advice on a recent issue with this M29.
    This time it's leaking from the *overflow valve* of its *water pump* there is a spring inside with a screw with a tiny hole in it. I tried adjusting the screw but did not help. Water is coming out of tiny hole in the screw on this overflow valve.
    Machine also makes squeaking noise whenever we extract coffee or whenever it takes water intake from main water supply (sounds like it's trying too hard)
    When I turn main water supply off - leak stops.

    PLEASE HELP
    REGARDS

  12. #12
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    First off before doing any disassembly inside the machine UNPLUG IT and turn off the water supply.

    The overflow valve, circled in green, is located in a brass assembly located under the drip tray on the right side near the the black plastic box that the drip tray drains into. The overflow valve has a plastic hose (Blue arrow.) that connects up to the back of the drain box (Red arrow).

    DCP_1091-Edited.jpg

    When the machine is making the squeaking noise you speak of is there water coming out of this hose into the black drain box? If so loosen the set screw (On the left side.) and turn the screw until the noise/water stops and then turn it 1/4 turn more and tighten the set screw.

    The valve on the pump, circled in yellow in the picture below, is a bypass valve used for setting the pump's output pressure. (Your pump may look different as this one is an older style/design.) If this is where the water is coming from and the above adjustment hasn't fixed the problem then remove the screw and any other parts in the adjustment mechanism and clean them and the interior to remove any debris/scale. Then reassemble it and adjust the screw until your gauge shows 9 bars pressure when pulling a shot. If your machine doesn't have a gauge that shows pump pressure you'll either need to acquire a gauge or count the number of turns it takes to remove the bypass adjustment screw and when reinstalling it turn it in that amount which should get it close to the needed 9 bars. To get it properly adjusted though will take a gauge. If cleaning the bypass mechanism doesn't stop the leak then you're probably looking at having to replace the pump.

    DCP_1097-Edited.jpg

    To do either of the above adjustments will require the machine running. Hence you will be working around live 240v and water. 240V kills! If you're not comfortable and knowledgeable working around live 240v DON'T! Bring it to a tech who is!


    Java "240v kills!" phile
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  13. #13
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    Thanks for your quick reply Phile, water is coming out of bypass valve on the pump. As you shown in 2nd picture circled with yellow. It started with a very slow drip - I did remove the screw and a spring behind the screw refitted 6 months ago - it did not stop the leak so I have run a flexi hose from leaking valve to a bucket to stop the mess temporarily.
    Leak has increased today and continuous even when pump is not running or even when machine is tired off.
    Squeaking noise has become very frequent and obvious from few weeks. In the past noise was not that frequent.
    May be the screw and spring in the valve may have gone loose? If we tighten this screw that means we are REDUCING the pump's out put pressure or INCREASING it??

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    Do have a gauge which reads from minimum of 0 to max of 2,5
    (Funny numbers) 0 to 0,8 is blue colour, 0,8 to 1,6 is Green then from 1,6 to 2,5 is red. My gague Indicator sitting in green - between 0,8 to 1,6.
    Did not notice reading while pulling shot. Will do that too however question is where in this reading it should read exact or near 9 Bar ?

  15. #15
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Hhhmmm....Been a long time since I needed to make an adjustment. I think clockwise increases the pressure.

    Do have a gauge which reads from minimum of 0 to max of 2,5
    (Funny numbers) 0 to 0,8 is blue colour, 0,8 to 1,6 is Green then from 1,6 to 2,5 is red. My gague Indicator sitting in green - between 0,8 to 1,6.
    That's showing the pressure in the boiler, not the pump pressure. Not all Cimbali's have a pump pressure gauge.


    Java "Gauging it" phile
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  16. #16
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    Thanks a lot Phile, I've tried taking assembly out clean it refit it, adjusting the pressure - nothing worked. Water coming out is quite a bit (10 litres per hour approx) It seems like I've to replace the Pump however can you please tell how complex this process would be to uninstall old one and installing a new pump on this machine? A step to step guide if possible will give me enough confidence and hopefully i can do it my self. If anything is critical at any stage Please Guide... Once again thank you so so much for your help Phile - Highly appreciated buddy

  17. #17
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    The pump will have a part number on it which can be used to order a new one from someone other than Cimbali. Only your machine's model number and serial number should be needed if ordering from Cimbali. Ordering direct from Cimbali will guarantee, or at least should, a drop-in replacement. If you order from a 3rd party, typically cheaper than buying from Cimbali, you may end up needing adapters between the pump and the lines.

    When the machine is completely cooled to room temperature:

    • Disconnect the machine from power.
    • Turn off the main water supply valve.
    • Use your manual fill lever, if the machine has one, to relieve the line pressure.
    • Take lots of pictures of the pump and piping as well as general area shots to document where everything goes..
    • Disconnect the 2 water lines on the pump being careful of the possibility of spraying water when they are first loosened. (Depending on the layout of your machine other pipes may need to be removed to access the pump and/or remove it. Take as few things off as possible.)
    • While holding the pump with one hand remove the ring clamp (Indicated by the blue arrow in the pic below).
    • Pull pump away from the motor to remove it.
    • Reverse the steps to put the new pump on removing old and putting new Teflon tape on any fittings that were undone that used it and making sure the shaft of the new pump lines up properly with the motor's shaft (It's most likely a slot type fitting.) and is slid on all the way before replacing and tightening the ring clamp.
    • Allow the machine to dry completely if any water leaked/sprayed during the process.
    • Adjust the pump's pressure.



    Java "Boom, Bob's your uncle!" phile

    DCP_1103-Edited.jpg
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  18. #18
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    BTW, that squeaking noise is gone, that was p,bally due to excessive pressure on water pump - this time I adjusted the screw to its original position by turning anti-clock wise, flow of water coming out has also reduced quite a bit but not stoped

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    THANKS Phile, will start hunting for ordering a new pump and take it from there, You are GREAT

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  21. #21
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    How do you know that's the correct pump for your machine?

    Not all pumps are the same. They have different threads, different size shaft sizes, different flow rates, different materials, and different pressure capabilities. If you're not ordering from Cimbali then you need to dissect the part/model number on your pump to make sure you're buying the proper one for your system.

    All the Cimbali rotary pumps that I've seen are Procon's so if you're buying another Procon it should be just a matter of matching up the part/model number on yours with the new one.

    Here's a model matrix that will let you figure out exactly what the specs on your pump are: PROCON Repair Center - Procon Pumps Matrix


    Java "Pump what?" phile
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  22. #22
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    Hmnn, thanks, where will i find the part & model # on my machine Phile?

  23. #23
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    It's stamped into the body of the pump.


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  24. #24
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    yep, got it - thanks

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    La Cimbali M29 (Basic) thermostat auto "switch off" playing up

    Hello Phile,
    I hope you are doing great buddy :-)
    Once again my La Cimbali and my self need your advice, could you please please please..help?

    After 4 weeks shut, I started machine as usual without any service or cleaning...
    I have come across recently. Machine would not always cut out after reaching pressure 1.5 bar and crossed 1.8 bar which activated safety pressure release valve - Phew ..... Thank God, luckily :-)
    I quickly released the pressure by opening steam wands and running hot water from machine then switched off the machine completely once pressure dropped under 1.5 bar off.
    It's not one off any more and has started doing more often.
    Could you pls guide what could be the problem and how to fix this?
    Thanks heaps :-)
    Regards,
    Last edited by bibiz; 9th August 2019 at 09:53 AM.

  26. #26
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    It sounds like either your pressure stat or boiler relay is shot.


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    Thanks for your quick reply Phile,
    I tried following so far to observe closely and found few interesting facts which you may find helpful to guide me for further;
    I turned off the element heating and kept the knob in the middle (water intake on / machine on and only heating off) I can still hear switch on and off sound periodically when pressure changes - does that sound means pressure stat sound?
    When it goes below 0.9 bar reading, heating and pressure bar stat both works fine and starts the heating, its the heating part of the process which fails to cut out sometimes and continues to keep heating which I have to control manually by turning heating off from knob.

    Could you pls suggest further steps me to follow to rule out and overcome this problem pleaaaaaaassse... If I can rule out with your guidance, will it be a complicated to locate relay / pressure stat and replace the faulty part or it has to be a technician's job? what do you suggest Phile :-)
    Thank you very very much - you are a life saver, god bless you mate :-)

  28. #28
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    If your machine has been turning on at 0.9bar and off at 1.5bar I'd replace the pressure stat. That's a HUGE deadband. Odds are it's the bad part. It's an easy part to replace.

    Heat your machine up, turning it off before it blows the safety release valve and open the water valve and let the steam push out as much water as possible. Once no more water is coming out close the water valve, completely power off the machine if it isn't already. Shut off the water supply's valve. Disconnect the machine from its power source. Remove the right side cover. Remove and replace the pressure stat.

    Take pics from different angles especially after you've taken the cover off of the pressure stat so you know the orientation of the pressure stat and what wires go where. If the wires are the same colors tag them so you know which connector they go on. Even better if there's enough slack leave the wires in place on the original pressure stat while you remove it and install the new one. Then transfer them over one at a time.

    Once the pressure stat is replaced, its wires reconnected, and its cover back on turn the water supply valve back on and check for leaks. Reconnect the machine to its power source being very careful as there will be live wires inside where the side cover is missing! Assuming no sparks flew about turn the power switch to it's first position and allow the boiler to fill to its normal level, watching for leaks while it does. Especially on the bottom of the pressure stat. Assuming all is well turn the power switch to the 2nd position so the boiler begins to heat up. Once again keeping an eye out for any leaks, especially on the bottom of the new pressure stat. If all is well the heating elements should turn off before the pressure hits 1.5bar. Put your side cover back back on and you're all done.

    With the new pressure stat your deadband should be closer to 0.2bar than the 0.6bar it sounds like you've been used to seeing. The factory setting I believe is on at 1.1bar and off at 1.3bar.


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  29. #29
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    thank you so much champion :-)
    Update: using a screw driver, taped the pressure stat's mechanical metallic part (with spring & base plate) it tuns on and off the switch, did this couple of times to understand how it works also lightly tapped its white plastic part for and loose or bad wire contact - after this noticed that pressure switch is turning on and off more frequently. Pressure bar reading are;
    Turns off at 1.2 bar and turns back on at 1.0 bar
    monitored for two hours and its working fine now :-)
    This tells me it's definitely pressure stat playing up.
    I am in Rotorua where sulphur presence in atmosphere is major cause rusty or bad electrical parts so assuming it's the white plastic with electrical portion is gone bad...
    will continue to monitor how long it works fine now and order the part for replacement :-)
    Thanks a ton - can't explain how great and helpful you are :-)
    love you and once again THANK YOU :-)



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