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Thread: LM GS/3 Paddle Group Pressure Profiling

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    LM GS/3 Paddle Group Pressure Profiling

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    A few weeks ago I mentioned in another thread that you can pressure profile with a LM GS/3 MP in reply to someone who said you can't, a few people since have asked how. Its pretty simple, the GS/3 MP group is the same as a Strada MP group minus the brew pressure gauge that reads the brew pressure above the puck after the Gigleur. Although it isn't true pressure profiling in a sense as the pressure curve isn't all that smooth but it's easily workable especially at home. Originally i wanted to do it so I could pre-infuse as i couldn't get 3 bar of line pressure, which i found the cause of later when installing the gauge and reseating the microswitch, at factory LM kicked the pump in to early on my machine. Thats irrelevant now and if i wanted to run it on tank in the future i can now pre-infuse without line pressure. It's also quite cool to see how some coffee's react at different pressures, Ive found that the Ethiopian Harrar that I love tastes more fruitier and sweeter at 8 bar with a slight pre-brew at 4 bar. Anyway its quite a simple install (if you can service your group you can already do this). I love to play around with anything I can these days as i was an engineer and now an artist.
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    Last edited by micksquires; 27th July 2012 at 10:25 PM.

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    hi,
    can you post step by step and what the different if you compare with LM Strada MP?

    cheers....

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    Nice work Mick!

    I shudder to think what you paid for those parts... the plunger alone is worth a few hunge retail! The Strada bits are a nice refinement to the LM paddle group which is already a thing of beauty.

    I'd be interested in a video comparing the system pressure and the group pressure during an extraction, if you can be bothered. Would be keen to see the ramp-up after the gicleur.

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    I thought about trying to explain how to do this but putting all the processes in writing would be a massive task. I have a better way, La Marzocco have a youtube clip on how to service your MP (Manual Paddle) group. Most of the steps required are what you need to do when replacing the O-Rings in the group when servicing. So I've listed what sections/steps of the youtube clip that are required to install the Manometer. Ive also listed the parts required plus detailed the extra steps that the clip wont cover.

    A.5.010 SHAFT FOR PADDLE STRADA MP

    F.1.020.MP GROUP PROTECTIVE COVER X PADDLE

    E.3.009 VERTICLE GAUGE FOR PADDLE

    H.1.021 EPDM O-ring 103 (or2018)

    A.2.018 VERTICAL MANOMETER NUT

    A.2.019 VERTICAL MANOMETER FITTING

    H.1.020 EPDM O-Ring 3024



    Please make sure water and power are off before trying any of this..

    Also lube all o-rings with an appropriate grease before installing.

    Mechanical Paddle Service Guide - YouTube


    *First up you need to start the clip ^ ^ ^ and watch up to 1:06 for the disassembly process.

    *Next step Flip Microswitch on the group around, the switch control the pump activation. You flip the switch around because you want the pump to kick in early before the valve opens. You also need to disconnect the red wire and cap it off and connect the loose white wire that wasn't connected. Connect it to the connector that the red wire was connected to (you'll know what im talking about when its in front of you) this switches the function of the microswitch for activation of the pump.

    *Start watching again from 3:29 Thru to 4:28 ***Note instead of the Blue Shaft that is re-insterted, use part No A.5.01

    *Next step is to screw part no. A.2.019 (with H.1.020 installed) into the thread of the new shaft. ***Note this part needs to be lined up correctly as it slides through the group cover.

    *Slide the new group cover on (F.1.020.MP)

    * Install o-ring H.1.021 and thread part no. A.2.018 onto the manometer (gauge)

    *Screw the manometer onto the fitting sticking out of the group cover, screw it all the way down and lock it down with the manometer nut that you previously installed on the gauge.

    Your done!


    **Im not taking any responsibility for anyone trying this
    Last edited by micksquires; 28th July 2012 at 10:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rick_bond View Post
    Nice work Mick!

    I shudder to think what you paid for those parts... the plunger alone is worth a few hunge retail! The Strada bits are a nice refinement to the LM paddle group which is already a thing of beauty.

    I'd be interested in a video comparing the system pressure and the group pressure during an extraction, if you can be bothered. Would be keen to see the ramp-up after the gicleur.
    Yeah mate the parts weren't that cheap, obtaining those parts was a mission though, the shaft is worth $230 I think.. If you have access to the lathe, you could drill your existing shaft and tap a thread into it quite easily. Thats the only difference between the two.
    The group gauge and the system gauge are actually the same pressure when the pump is fully activated and a correctly loaded puck is being brewed due to the group being fully saturated but its quite cool to see what happens to the pressure at the group when its under extracting its drops a bit due to there not being enough resistance from the grounds. Also during ramp up is pretty cool to see whats going on. I'll record a video tomorrow for you. Ive also checked with a Scace II device to see if the reading are the same on the group gauge and the device. They do read the same.

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    All done mate, theres no difference between what ive done and a Strada MP group. They react exactly the same..

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    I must say I was surprised when I saw where the brew gauge was on the MP Strada, as it sits directly above the group it could quite easily get clogged up with coffee solids. No reports of stuck gauges yet, but time will tell.

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    I know this has nothing to do with it, but geez Mick... You've gone from a Breville combo, to a minore db, to a LM GS3 paddle. Plus not to mention every mazzer ever made.. And all since January... I had a laugh That's awesome

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    Quote Originally Posted by rick_bond View Post
    I must say I was surprised when I saw where the brew gauge was on the MP Strada, as it sits directly above the group it could quite easily get clogged up with coffee solids. No reports of stuck gauges yet, but time will tell.
    Rick how many Strada MP's have you guys put out there or service? Ive pulled the gauge off a couple times to see if there is any solids build up but there doesn't seem to be any so far. I'll post that video up tomorrow when i get a chance

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    Mick, exactly none to my knowledge. Most Strada purchasers go for the EP and consider that the only one worth having, which is a little misguided I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonder View Post
    I know this has nothing to do with it, but geez Mick... You've gone from a Breville combo, to a minore db, to a LM GS3 paddle. Plus not to mention every mazzer ever made.. And all since January... I had a laugh That's awesome
    Haha yeah I've gone a little out a control, i had the opportunity to get the GS3 at an amazing price, why not. I'm actually living in my first real home in about 5 years, I've spent the past few years living/working in and out of a suitcase all over the globe.

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    I need to convince my wife to give up the cabinet above the LM/3 because that gauge stick up a bit to far to open that door.... Darn
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    Oh, and contrary to what I wrote above, Veneziano First Pour in Bond st. put in a 3 group strada MP recently.

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    Senior Member BLrdFX's Avatar
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    Mick:

    How far above the paddle does the gauge stick up? I would appreciate knowing that height.

    I really would like to do this MOD and I have the group rebuild kit and tool so the Strada parts are the only stuff I need now.

    BTW, where did you get those cool glass end panels?

    Thanks for your time in writing up this fine explanation

    Stephen

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    you could also use a male to female elbow fitting and turn the gauge 90 degrees to the right if you really need to. It would look a little odd, but work just as well.

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    Your are correct, it would look a bit weird, but going with the elbow idea and using copper tubing to locate a gauge elsewhere, like in the main panel somewhere would be OK. I am not sure about the space behind those panels and if there is enough space to do it.

    Watching the brew boiler pressure drop (slowly) to my 2 bars of line pressure while pre-infusing seems to help in the taste department.

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    hi micksquires

    for MOD to Strada MP we just need only what you put on list or i have to buy other think?

    A.5.010 SHAFT FOR PADDLE STRADA MP

    F.1.020.MP GROUP PROTECTIVE COVER X PADDLE

    E.3.009 VERTICLE GAUGE FOR PADDLE

    H.1.021 EPDM O-ring 103 (or2018)

    A.2.018 VERTICAL MANOMETER NUT

    A.2.019 VERTICAL MANOMETER FITTING

    H.1.020 EPDM O-Ring 3024

    How much cost you for all the Parts? also it's available in Sydney or i have to order from La marzocco or USA?

    cheers...
    Last edited by bluecoin; 25th December 2012 at 01:15 PM. Reason: change name

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    Hello, I am thinking of upgrading to LM GS3 paddle from Bezerra Magica. I have read a few articles on internet regarding maintenance problem, installation especially regarding brewing pressure not correct set by the factory. Any advise to choose between AV and Paddle manual regarding Preinfusion procedure. I am pretty new on Espresso Machines , any advise and
    cautions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

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    Senior Member BLrdFX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket View Post
    Hello, I am thinking of upgrading to LM GS3 paddle from Bezerra Magica. I have read a few articles on internet regarding maintenance problem, installation especially regarding brewing pressure not correct set by the factory. Any advise to choose between AV and Paddle manual regarding Preinfusion procedure. I am pretty new on Espresso Machines , any advise and
    cautions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
    The MP version will give you more options in being able to pressure profile your shot and especially if you do the Mod described by Bluecoin.

    I have not done the Mod yet but have been chasing down when the machine was seemingly leaking/dumping water into the drip tray when it should not. It turns out that someone had or shipping had rotated the water level sensor about 45 degrees so the tip of the sensor was not detecting water until a much higher level was in the steam boiler. They also pulled the sensor probe very far out of the boiler. I fixed both with my fingers rotating and pushing it back into place and now it apparently works fine.

    You can adjust the pump pressure pretty easily. It is easier to adjust the brew temp, the steam temp/pressure, all with the PID, and the tea water temp is adjustable without taking things apart as well; very nice machine.

    The shot times are displayed and with the Mod that Bluecoin describes you can watch and adjust the brew pressure profile of the shot.

    I recently bought a lever machine and the shots were fantastic, so I tried to get the GS/3 to duplicate that taste. After turning down the pump pressure I succeeded in producing the taste that you would expect from such a spendy machine.

    The early machines were very different than the newer ones. If you are not interested in steamed milk products then get the ShotPuller by LM; it has no steam boiler.

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    Hello bluecoin, I am thinking of upgrading to GS3 Paddle soon, just wonder have you encounter any problem , and your MOD to Strada MP project?
    Could you shed some light about the cost, degree of difficult to the medication, are you happy with the upgrade? Your assistance would be much appreciated. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymarket View Post
    Hello bluecoin, I am thinking of upgrading to GS3 Paddle soon, just wonder have you encounter any problem , and your MOD to Strada MP project?
    Could you shed some light about the cost, degree of difficult to the medication, are you happy with the upgrade? Your assistance would be much appreciated. Thanks.
    i answer at other page

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    Hi Mick, really like your converted GS3! Could you tell me where did you order the above necessary items for the paddle group profiling?
    Sydney or overseas? And would be much appreciated. if you could also mention the names of the company. Thanks.

    PS or anyone has informations and suggestions. All welcome !

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    I plan on doing the same mod. I ordered the parts from La Marzocco Australia / Allpress. Parts should be here next month (6 weeks wait)

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    HI Senekis, could you PM me the price list for the parts that you order from Allpress. I have a price list from Chris Coffee from US. Thanks

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    Sorry, I didn't ask for a quote when I ordered the parts

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    Thanks Senekis, I did ask Allpress for a price list, they are cheaper , compare to US supplier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Senekis View Post
    I plan on doing the same mod. I ordered the parts from La Marzocco Australia / Allpress. Parts should be here next month (6 weeks wait)
    i also waiting for over 12 weeks, but still never turnup from allpress, it's always something missing. finally i did back order from other place and get better price about -10%.
    also if get precision basket from allpress make sure have 2D code, because they sell without code for Same price as one has Code.

    cheers

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    bluecoin now you get me worry!!! I had to ring many times to get a price list , was told to wait 6 weeks for the parts. Could you PM me for the alternate supplier, just in case I have the same problem, many thanks.

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    We dealt with this Australian importer of LM when we sold the GS/3.

    Their service was so poor that we had no option other than to delete the machine from range. We received demands for payment on parts never sent and the final straw was when I was told I would need to wait for two months for a couple of lousy boiler element o-rings. Never again....

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    I haven't had a problem with La Marzocco Australia. They sent me my GS/3 within 2 weeks of ordering it.

    Where as I had been waiting for 4 months for one from another company.

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    My new GS3, still trying to get the right grind on HG-One grinder. I got a very good price for the GS3 ,PM if you are thinking of buying one. Have just ordered the necessary parts for Strada Paddle installation.
    For now a few photos.
    LM 1.jpgLM Glass1.jpgLM4.jpg

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    [QUOTE=Haymarket;493542]My new GS3, still trying to get the right grind on HG-One grinder. I got a very good price for the GS3 ,PM if you are thinking of buying one. Have just ordered the necessary parts for Strada Paddle installation.
    For now a few photos.

    how much you get the GS3 MP?
    what is say S/N on you machine?
    my one will turn up end of this month

    how about you HG-One?

    cheers

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    Hi bluecoin,
    I did a few enquiries , phone calls and searching on internet , finally I got a very good price from United Supply after a bit of negotiation,as I put in my case of selling my Bezerra (at a loss).I paid $ 5000 for GS3 and two free La Marzocco GS3 glass side panels. They even bench test and set up for me , I just need to plug in the power point and refill the water tank.
    It runs like a dream! I am very happy , so far so good ( touch wood )
    My machine was manufactured in September /2012 , S/N is 242X( sorry about the last number).The usual order is about 6-8 weeks wait , but I did't have to wait for mine! Lucky me!
    What do you think? Where do you order yours?
    I have ordered the Strada paddle parts , it would be at least 6 weeks wait!
    HG-One was ordered late November 2012, got mine mid of January 2013. No discount! But I am glad that I have one, because its better than my Vario and Ditting 640.
    Although took a while to dial in the right grind and dose. The coffee certainly taste better in many ways , lets say I love and enjoy my cup of coffee more .

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    Senior Member C-man's Avatar
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    Haymarket, I came real close to buying your BZ

    but something else came up closer to home.

    LOVE your new machine! super!



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