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Thread: Never say never

  1. #1
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Never say never

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Just a little something for those who love levers.

    Or just want one. 8-D

    I'll have my end panels in black, cheers!
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    WOW outstanding>>>>>>>

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    Site Sponsor coffee_machinist's Avatar
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    Hmm something a little odd about that, why's it still got the speedster's brew lever? Do we know whether said machine actually exists? Was my impression that Kees has not to date built a lever speedster.

  4. #4
    TC
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    hmm...Assuming it's not a photochop, I am not sure that I like it.

    The lines just don't work for me... I'd think a 1 group mirage would make better design sense...

    Just sayin' (as they say....).

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bosco_Lever's Avatar
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    Photoshop.
    I have seen that photo before, posted on a thread on the Home Barista site. It is not an actual machine, and what C_M says is spot on. Also, the weight of the lever would topple the unit over.

  6. #6
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    As far as I know this was made by Kees for an exhibition in Cologne 2010 and may not have been functional.
    You're right, it's out of balance, both aesthetically and physically and according to Kees (2nd hand info) it would topple over.
    I don't think it's photoshopped, as the machine was apparently exhibited but then someone could be pulling my leg!
    If my source is correct, Kees also said if a lever Speedster was made it would require a completely new lever group design.

    Like the thread title says tho' it's about never say never.

    I would be interested in a 1 group Idro but was told, via a CS post, that it'll 'never happen' but as we know,
    there were only 6 of the original Speedsters made, (with the GS2 paddle group) and Kees said there'd be no more.
    About 4(?) years after he said no, the Speedster went into production.

    If the above machine was built, he just might be thinking about it (a 1 group lever)............hmmmmmmm2010...........2014?
    well, I hope so anyway!

    Let me dream, it's Christmas ;-D
    Last edited by chokkidog; 25th December 2012 at 09:36 PM. Reason: punctuation

  7. #7
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    P.S. The image posted isn't sourced from HB.

  8. #8
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Hey Bosco, Here's something for ya!!

    "Kees sent me that photo last summer, but asked me to keep it under wraps since he wasn't sure if the machine would actually be produced.

    There's several challenges with a HX-equipped, dual boiler setup and the Speedster's body design vis a vis the lever.

    - machine may be unstable (it wasn't designed to handle a lever's action)
    - brew boiler heating the grouphead (a stock Gaggia piston lever) not hot enough
    - screws up the thermal dynamics of a very tight setup (using Kees' standard Speedster design, grouphead, etc etc).

    But he is working on it - quite a bit last time we chatted. He may have to design a piston lever grouphead from scratch to pull it off."

    quote and unquote 8-D

    I'm someone who needs to use the book "computers for dummies" but I can sure find stuff easily enough.
    Never say never and never present assumptions as fact.

    I'd be VERY surprised if this person was lying.
    Last edited by chokkidog; 25th December 2012 at 10:48 PM. Reason: oxymoron intended

  9. #9
    Senior Member Bosco_Lever's Avatar
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    When I was sourcing a lever, I came across the photo on the internet. I cannot remember the exact post, nor can I be bothered looking for it. There are numerous similar posts to yours on various coffee forums, all speculating, praying and wishing for Kees to produce a 1 Group Lever. There are also posts and discussions about how Kees visited the Bosco factory and all sorts of conjecture,....etc, etc. After a while it all becomes wishful thinking.
    The machines made by Kees look fantastic, and no doubt if he did produce a working 1 grp lever, it would be a work of art. Looking at the KVW website, most of his machines are aimed for the commercial market, so it may be a while yet. Who knows, your guess is a good as anyone else.

    I could not be bothered wishing and dreaming. I wanted a simple, reliable 1 Group Lever built by someone who knows a thing or two about their craft. I wanted a machine that will last many years, as well as deliver the goods in the cup. I had a friend check out the factory in Italy, after quite a few enquiries, and ended up with a Bosco. It may not be a lazer cut piece of modern art, but is still a hand made machine, with its own character, built by someone who has been making Lever machines for half a century. In Australia, it costs less than half of what is asked for a Speedster, which was a bonus.

    It is a decision I will never regret, as the machine is a joy to use, and delivers the goods. The lack of a pump (and associated noise) is wonderful. When you view the machine, it looks very simple, but as you get to know and understand it, it becomes obvious just how much effort has gone into perfecting it.

    Anyway sweet dreams, and may your Xmas wish for a KVW Lever machine come to fruition.

  10. #10
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Gee whizz, it's just a photo!!
    Correction; the machine was exhibited at the Coffeena International Coffee Fair in Cologne 26-28 June 2009, not 2010.
    A minor detail but providing vague or incorrect facts bothers me and I feel compelled to correct same.
    According to the SCAE, only 3350 people attended the expo, little wonder that the presence of the machine isn't widely known.

    Grinch like statements.......... I'll let them through to the keeper.

    "Tis the season to be jolly, lala-la-lalaa" 8-D

  11. #11
    Senior Member Bosco_Lever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post

    Grinch like statements.......... I'll let them through to the keeper.
    ??????????

    My last statement wished you sweet dreams and the happy prospect of the machine coming to market.

    Was the machine a working prototype, or just a "concept", displayed to evoke reactions?
    The Speedster needs to be plumbed in, and ships with an external pump, not visible in the photo.

    If this is your dream machine, then I hope it comes to market so you can buy one.

  12. #12
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    No Bosco, this isn't my dream machine. I don't really have one, it's more like my 'dream' machine environment would be a combination set up
    of two or even three machines, tho' one would definitely be a lever and one definitely a Kees. I would also love to have one of those old 1948 Gaggia Classicas
    that look like the bottom section of a Roman column, or a vintage Faema. In my dreams, I would like a lot of things!!

    I think most of us coffee lovers would be interested to see a Kees single group lever, even if just from the design point of view.
    I might be in the market for a 1 or 2 group lever, later in 2013, to fill the role of backup espresso machine, in a commercial environment,
    so lovers of straight espresso can enjoy what a good lever produces and if the venture of moving the roastery to the coast (and going wet retail)
    comes into fruition, machine techs won't be 'just up the road'.

    The main player will most likely be a Kees Mirage 2 group, so the lever would possibly be from a different manufacturer.
    Currently, the now unavailable Izzo Pompeii lever would be my choice, I hope it comes back on the market,
    the current and older (as you know) ss model doesn't grab me from an aesthetic point of view.
    Needless to say, aesthetics are a big factor in what I put in my living and working space.

    As Chris says above, the Speedster's low slung lines don't quite match the vertical plane that the lever brings.
    Visually unbalanced, so very 'unKees' like and even tho' there seems to be a lot of desire to see a Kees 1 group lever, if it ever happens,
    it may well be along the lines of the Idrocompresso/Mirage, or something altogether new (once again, if at all).

    I agree with your proposition that the machine in the photo is a concept design built for the exhibition. None of the info I've seen says one way or the other
    but as Rick points out, the regular brew lever is in place so the lever group is probably just bolted on to a regular Speedster chassis.
    The machine doesn't have the look of being fully kitted up with pump and plumbing either.

    My dream is more like some sort of coffee machine heaven 8-D

  13. #13
    TC
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    Currently, the now unavailable Izzo Pompeii lever would be my choice, I hope it comes back on the market...
    G'day chokki,

    Nice to have options, whichever way you ultimately go.

    The Pompeii is available, but only in the original pressurestat configuration for the time being. For mine, neither here nor there, though I do love the coloured panels of the later variant which is now named Izzo.

    Cheers

    Chris

  14. #14
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Hi Chris,

    The panels and colour add a vibrant and classic feel to that machine, one of my favourites.
    I also like the idea of the narrow group, is it 55mm or 53mm?

    Cheers

    And talk about classic machines and heaven .......... I used the CS search function to find a reference to it but turned up zilch.
    For anyone who hasn't seen it yet, can I suggest googling 'cagliari espresso machine museum' and find the set of 100 photos on flickr.
    I can't put up a direct link, I think it may contravene site rules..........
    I wonder if KvdW went there for some inspiration!?

  15. #15
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    Hi chokki,

    The Pompeii is a 55 mm group.

    Cheers

    Chris

  16. #16
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Hi chokki,

    The Pompeii is a 55 mm group.

    Cheers

    Chris
    Morning Chris,
    Have often wondered about 55mm groups and baskets, the deeper column of coffee must have quite an affect on the final product.
    What are your thoughts?
    Trust you had an enjoyable Christmas.

    Jon.



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