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Thread: NS Program V Extreme rebuild thread (Boiler punched!)

  1. #1
    Senior Member skydragondave's Avatar
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    NS Program V Extreme rebuild thread (Boiler punched!)

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Or, possibly, part it out and bin it, stay tuned!
    Picked up the machine for $300 this morning, by tonight I have it completely disassembled pending quotation for boiler overhaul. It wasn't anything to drool over even when it was new, but this machine presents a lot of problems I'm sure I'll have to deal with over the course of my career and I'd rather be making mistakes on my own machines than on someone else's!

    Two major issues on this machine so far: First, both group flanges were leaking steam for a very long time before they were finally fixed, and the boiler support plate is rusted-out completely in these areas. Could not believe the brass bolts came out without taking the gripserts with them! I did not even need to heat them up. I have a welder-fabricator who will butt-weld in patches and weldnuts to repair this. Second, both heat exchanger tubes are fractured, one has a giant piece missing out of it. Off to the rad shop it goes, for a quotation to descale and braze in new tubes. The boiler was filled almost halfway with scale! I can't imagine how bad the coffee must have been coming out of this. Was originally used in a Starbucks that's now out of business. (I wonder why?)

    Some questions:

    How was the boiler endplate sealed? There's a small groove in the flange on both sides, but I see no evidence of an o-ring left in it, and the NS parts manual does not show anything.

    Also, how/why did the exchanger tubes fail? Is there another problem I need to address here? I could not power the machine up to test it as the pump was seized and I did not have a proper outlet to plug-in to (yet). Is this just the result of years and years of thermal cycling or could it be a stuck pressurestat or some other kind of catastrophe? It seems the exchanger tubes balloon-out a bit at the failure point. So maybe the gigleur orifices got plugged and they just kept running the machine until it blew-out the tubes?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Senior Member skydragondave's Avatar
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    Why after 126 views has no one said anything?
    Did I violate some sort of unspoken rule or am I just not wearing the proper flavour of deodorant?
    Trust me when I have accrued enough experience to begin dispensing advice that I will, and quite liberally; but we all start somewhere do we not?

  3. #3
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    I'm sure your right into the restore of this machine Dave, sadly your post is of absolutely no interest to me, and, I suspect, most other members of this forum would feel the same, majority of us are into domestic machines and grinders, your project is way beyond what most of us would be interested in getting involved in.
    Having said that I'm sure a few will now chime in to prove me wrong.

  4. #4
    TC
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    Hi Dave,

    For mine, that's a train wreck of a boiler and I shudder to think what you'll find in the rest of the machine.

    I'd be replacing the boiler...in fact I think I'd junk the machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    I'm sure your right into the restore of this machine Dave, sadly your post is of absolutely no interest to me, and, I suspect, most other members of this forum would feel the same, majority of us are into domestic machines and grinders, your project is way beyond what most of us would be interested in getting involved in.
    Having said that I'm sure a few will now chime in to prove me wrong.
    Hate to prove you right but you are right about being wrong I would think that most of us are interested in what is going on with your rebuild due to the fact that much of what you are dealing with also pertains to the higher end domestic machines, albeit on a smaller scale. Perhaps the main reason for the deafening silence is that most of us do not have enough knowledge to help point you in the right direction or, perhaps it is because many (like Talk_Coffee) feel that this might be a lost cause and hardly worth the effort. However, I do applaud your willingness to give it a go and hope it works out for you in the end, either as a working machine or a good hands on bit of learning. Good luck!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snafu View Post
    Hate to prove you right but you are right about being wrong I would think that most of us are interested in what is going on with your rebuild due to the fact that much of what you are dealing with also pertains to the higher end domestic machines, albeit on a smaller scale. Perhaps the main reason for the deafening silence is that most of us do not have enough knowledge to help point you in the right direction or, perhaps it is because many (like Talk_Coffee) feel that this might be a lost cause and hardly worth the effort. However, I do applaud your willingness to give it a go and hope it works out for you in the end, either as a working machine or a good hands on bit of learning. Good luck!
    Knew playing devils advocate would work.
    skydragondave likes this.

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    Allow me to commend you on a job well done

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Skydragon, when I saw your thread, I had no idea what a NS Program V Extreme was. I think, that after some deduction and a Google search, I now assume it to be Nuova Simonelli

    Not sure we can be in a position to know why some particular part failed.

    Boiler end plates held on by numerous bolts most likely will have a gasket.

    How do you know the pump is seized if you haven't plugged in and powered the machine. Is it disconnected from the motor and you tried to turn the shaft by hand to no avail. Procon pumps can be rebuilt or bought new.

    Good luck and keep us posted on your progress







    Perhaps disconnect pump from

  9. #9
    Senior Member skydragondave's Avatar
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    Why after 126 views has no one said anything?
    Did I violate some sort of unspoken rule or am I just not wearing the proper flavour of deodorant?
    Trust me when I have accrued enough experience to begin dispensing advice that I will, and quite liberally; but we all start somewhere do we not?

  10. #10
    Senior Member skydragondave's Avatar
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    Oh no, it worked! Look at all the responses!

    I thought I was abusing this forum by asking too many questions! Listen guys, any advice is better than none and I appreciate all of it, trust me!

    I am completely serious about making this my career and any help you give me is going to come right back to you. I came here for advice on a roaster years ago and you were all super nice and gave me help I am still employing today. Finished my 24th PM on it yesterday, in fact!

    But not before I'm ready. I'm going in for barista training on Monday evening and I have a two-day technician seminar booked at Nuova Distribution in Washingtom at the end of March, I spend at least two hours at night on this forum reading your adventures so I'll get there eventually! I've learned a ton already and I'm unspeakably grateful! When I'm ready to be of help, I will be here for all of you.

    Robusto, I did check the pump by turning the shaft. It was stuck, but not anymore. I'm working on getting a scace but my supplier is a little slow getting my parts list quoted. It's a long one!

    Thanks again!

  11. #11
    Senior Member skydragondave's Avatar
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    So here's what I've learned. I went to one of the biggest boiler works companies in my area and had a long chat with one of their CSRs who was a little amused that I carried a boiler in through the front door to reception for him to look at. He said to replace the tubes in a bronze boiler like that for food contact would be close to $2500 and that there was very little chance I could find someone to do it properly for less than $1500. He was surprised by how cheap a new boiler from NS would cost, and he told me this would definitely be the route to go if they're still available. So I contacted Brian at ECMParts in BC to ask about that, and he said they probably have a few used boilers sitting around from teardown quotes and should be able to give me a deal on one. The only issue is with shipping a big heavy boiler like that from one coast to the other, so he's going to get shipping quotes before we do anything.
    Wondering aloud with the boiler works guy, we concluded the HX tubes may have detonated from the gigleur orifices in the groups getting plugged with scale, and either the OPV being stuck shut with scale or cranked to the limit to try and get action at the group head. That doesn't explain why none of the pipes outside didn't blow first, though, so we may never know what really happened. Unless one of you may have seen this before?
    Anyway, crossing my fingers Brian might find us something, if not I now have a parts machine to rebuild the MAC Digit 2Gp at Homegrown, and maybe a couple spares for my Digit 1gp. So I'm not out $300 after all...
    Not a bad outcome, really.

  12. #12
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    It's impossible to say from your pictures but rather than pump pressure being the cause of the bulging HX's I'd be more inclined to believe that the machine was subjected to freezing temps with water left in the HX's.


    Java "HX's + Freezing = Bad" phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!



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