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Thread: First Pic of the 1 group Slayer!

  1. #1
    Member Tony_Barista's Avatar
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    First Pic of the 1 group Slayer!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Here is the official first picture of the 1 group Slayer heading to Melbourne for MICE!




    photo.PNG
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  2. #2
    Junior Member proftournesol's Avatar
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    Mmmmm..... very tasty

  3. #3
    Senior Member sidewayss's Avatar
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    Looks the beast Tony.

    Not sure what application a one group Slayer would belong to...

    I can only imagine it is designed for a serious home enthusiast.

    Can't even see it being used in a low volume espresso bar.
    A two group would be a minimum if a jumbo latte is required.

  4. #4
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    I think the 1 group Slayer is destined for:

    1. Home users with too many spare dollars and want a great toy (and serious bragging rights)
    2. Roasters that want to develop blends for use on their customers 3 group Slayers.

    As the cheap Slayer offer, I expect that #2 will account for most of the future one group Slayer sales.

  5. #5
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    I think the 1 group Slayer is destined for:

    1. Home users with too many spare dollars and want a great toy (and serious bragging rights)
    Just have to win Lotto tomorrow.

  6. #6
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    looks nice, like the red (unless thats protective coating on the steel I had a laugh)

    kinda reminds me of an LM GS3, but with wood trim

    I think Andy is spot on the money as to where most of these will end up, I almost balked at the cost of my rocky / silvia 5 years ago, i'd be too scared to use this if I ever acquired one...

  7. #7
    Senior Member brettreaby's Avatar
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    lucky for me i dont like the look of it.

    I'll hang for the kees van de western.

  8. #8
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettreaby View Post
    lucky for me i dont like the look of it.
    I have to agree--it's not pushing any of my buttons either.

    I'll stick with my Izzo Pompei.

    Greg
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    It's not exactly my cup of tea either, however, if someone were to drop one on my bench as a gift I'm sure I would come to appreciate it in time.

  10. #10
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    Love the Slayer aesthetic. Ive seen a green copper one. Looked brilliant.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    If I were buying on looks alone I would have to go with the KVW Speedster Google Image Result for http://www.keesvanderwesten.com/news/speedster2/Speedster-rood-geel-1.jpg the Slayer looks a little industrial, of course it's probably a wolf in sheep's clothing.

  12. #12
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    Yep Izzo Pompei is the next move in my stable after the Alex DB...

  13. #13
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    I'm with you Jonty!

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    I'd have one in a heartbeat if I had heaps of cash. Not likely to happen though.

  15. #15
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    I think the 1 group Slayer is destined for:

    1. Home users with too many spare dollars and want a great toy (and serious bragging rights)
    2. Roasters that want to develop blends for use on their customers 3 group Slayers.

    As the cheap Slayer offer, I expect that #2 will account for most of the future one group Slayer sales.
    I expect you will be using that justification to get one Andy

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    if someone were to drop one on my bench
    you'd probably need a new bench. I was hoping they might have gone for something a little more svelte for the bodywork of the 1 group, this still looks like a 2 person lift! Still, some interesting internals no doubt. I did see that Jason's fitted a pressure transducer for steam instead of a temp probe, which in theory will make for absolutely stable steam delivery.

  17. #17
    Member Tony_Barista's Avatar
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    New pics of the 1 group Slayer

    Here are some more pictures of the 1 group Slayer! Its a baby!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  18. #18
    caffeinated lemoo's Avatar
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    what on earth is that grinder in the background in the 2nd picture

  19. #19
    Site Sponsor coffee_machinist's Avatar
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    anfim super caimano

  20. #20
    Not a Shoe Jimmytheboot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Barista View Post
    Here are some more pictures of the 1 group Slayer! Its a baby!
    Noticed the 24V variable speed pump in there similar to the LM Strada EP...

    Dont the big slayers have needle valves and bypasses for profiling?

  21. #21
    caffeinated lemoo's Avatar
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    thanks cm
    the dosing mechanism looks interesting

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmytheboot View Post
    Noticed the 24V variable speed pump in there similar to the LM Strada EP...

    Dont the big slayers have needle valves and bypasses for profiling?
    Not sure, anyone know the method they use for programmed pre-infusion?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmytheboot View Post
    Noticed the 24V variable speed pump in there similar to the LM Strada EP...

    Dont the big slayers have needle valves and bypasses for profiling?
    They certainly do. The pump is always at 9 bars and the flowrate (not pressure) is controlled via a manual bypass with a needle valve.

    Quote Originally Posted by muppet_man67 View Post
    Not sure, anyone know the method they use for programmed pre-infusion?
    Its not really programmed per se. The 2.0 Slayer has a manual timer (set by a rheostat) to effectively pre-infuse for a set time. So you just push the actuator to full brew, and the timer will use the pre-brew (middle position) for X seconds before switching onto pump pressure, then you have to manually switch it off like normal. Its not really programmed, as with everything on the slayer, it set via manual devices, so you have to individually set each group manually via the timer and obviously set the bypass up. Tuning the groupheads to be identical takes time in itself as the bypasses move a touch over the weeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemoo View Post
    thanks cm
    the dosing mechanism looks interesting
    The anfim doser is hands down the best in the world. amazing design, perfect dosing, no mess. Proud Mary went to the hassle of fixing the anfim doser to a Robur grinder they like it so much.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    I think the 1 group Slayer is destined for:1. Home users with too many spare dollars and want a great toy (and serious bragging rights)2. Roasters that want to develop blends for use on their customers 3 group Slayers.As the cheap Slayer offer, I expect that #2 will account for most of the future one group Slayer sales.
    Actually its sales are anything like the speedster you'll find #1 is actually the larger group (per Kees vdW).So better than the Gs3 / 1 group hydra / speedster? (Had to be said right?)

  25. #25
    Doppio Ristretto
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    Im sorry guys, but even if I had a squillion dollars, I would not put something that fugly on my kitchen bench, no matter how good it was.

    I'm more than prepared to put technology to work, but only to a point where it doesn't interfere with my human nature / emotion.

    This machine aims to remove the passion from making coffee and turn it into another scientific quest for people obsessed with replicating an exact result. Copycat Coffee.
    There is a point where science takes over and removes the artistic nature, the passion and emotion associated with the social drink.

    I want my coffee to taste different everywhere I go- not the same.
    Thats probably why it's called Slayer. Its the Orwellian espresso machine.

    Those Paddles ruin the passion. And they're ugly. give me a cantankerous 1950's lever and some beans of unknown origin, and make life challenging and an adventure.

  26. #26
    Senior Member askthecoffeeguy's Avatar
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    I could use one just for milk production...

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeB View Post

    This machine aims to remove the passion from making coffee and turn it into another scientific quest for people obsessed with replicating an exact result. Copycat Coffee.
    There is a point where science takes over and removes the artistic nature, the passion and emotion associated with the social drink.
    Huh? Its the same as every other machine except it offers pressure profiling. How does it ruin anything?
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  28. #28
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeB View Post
    This machine aims to provide an additional controllable variable
    Fixed that for you. If you can control the minutest details you can *intentionally* alter them and create different tastes, rather than it happening accidentally.

    It might feel good for you to put all the challenges on yourself but at the end of the day, a lot of people just want a great coffee and don't need to strive just to make the occasional one to appreciate it.

    Me, I'd rather figure out the effects of each variable in a consistent setting, then apply that combined knowledge to make something great/just the way I like it. Pressure profiling is just another way of doing that.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    Fixed that for you. If you can control the minutest details you can *intentionally* alter them and create different tastes, rather than it happening accidentally.

    It might feel good for you to put all the challenges on yourself but at the end of the day, a lot of people just want a great coffee and don't need to strive just to make the occasional one to appreciate it.

    Me, I'd rather figure out the effects of each variable in a consistent setting, then apply that combined knowledge to make something great/just the way I like it. Pressure profiling is just another way of doing that.
    You don't get to create flavors when brewing coffee, you just get to extract them and highlight or diminish aspects of what's already there. Pressure profiling adds another parameter that is all. Where on a typical machine you work with grind/dose/time to find the right extraction, your now working with grind/dose/preinfusion/pressure/time. They are not minute differences, they are repeatable.

  30. #30
    Junior Member lukeap69's Avatar
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    I would be happier if I have this capability on my machine.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeB View Post
    Im sorry guys, but even if I had a squillion dollars, I would not put something that fugly on my kitchen bench, no matter how good it was.

    I'm more than prepared to put technology to work, but only to a point where it doesn't interfere with my human nature / emotion.

    This machine aims to remove the passion from making coffee and turn it into another scientific quest for people obsessed with replicating an exact result. Copycat Coffee.
    There is a point where science takes over and removes the artistic nature, the passion and emotion associated with the social drink.

    I want my coffee to taste different everywhere I go- not the same.
    Thats probably why it's called Slayer. Its the Orwellian espresso machine.

    Those Paddles ruin the passion. And they're ugly. give me a cantankerous 1950's lever and some beans of unknown origin, and make life challenging and an adventure.
    But but, there are more variables, more ways of extracting, from cafe to cafe depending on how they use their slayer, the same coffee would taste way more different then 2 cafes brewing the same coffee on Wegas. They are the electric pump version of your lever.

    It takes lots of passion and lots of dedication to properly learn the capabilities of this equipment and it has nothing to do with making all coffee taste the same.

    I think Slayer are aesthetically and ergonomically the best looking coffee machine out at the moment. That's my taste and I know plenty of people who agree.
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  32. #32
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muppet_man67 View Post
    You don't get to create flavors when brewing coffee, you just get to extract them and highlight or diminish aspects of what's already there. Pressure profiling adds another parameter that is all. Where on a typical machine you work with grind/dose/time to find the right extraction, your now working with grind/dose/preinfusion/pressure/time. They are not minute differences, they are repeatable.
    You've basically repeated what I posted.

    When I said create different flavours, I meant create shots with different flavours (as a whole).

    I would suggest that when compared with grind/tamp/temperature/bean, the ability to profile pressure (compared to a constant pressure that is within acceptable limits) does make a minute difference; you're talking bleeding-edge performance here.

    Minute and repeatable aren't mutually exclusive terms so I'm not sure what you're on about there.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    You've basically repeated what I posted.

    When I said create different flavours, I meant create shots with different flavours (as a whole).

    I would suggest that when compared with grind/tamp/temperature/bean, the ability to profile pressure (compared to a constant pressure that is within acceptable limits) does make a minute difference; you're talking bleeding-edge performance here.

    Minute and repeatable aren't mutually exclusive terms so I'm not sure what you're on about there.
    It's not minute. In its most basic form you can change how much water you need to get a full extraction, ie 20% solids = balanced espresso with the body of ristretto. On a practical daily basis you can adjust the brighteness/bitter balance while keeping shot volume the same.

    The changes you can make are equally as significant as adjusting any other parameter.

    Are you in Melbourne? I'd be happy to show you some comparison shots on our Strada some time.

  34. #34
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    If money was no object I would buy one just because I could. I think the styling is like retro / industrial, pretty cool.

    Not exactly the same league as this machine, but from playing with pre infusion pressures on BES900 last couple of months, Its very hard to go back to a machine that does not at least have this capability. Pre infusing at 3bar for around 10 seconds until it starts to bead then hitting it with full 9 - 10 bar is so dam tasty.

    Like what muppet man was saying, I can get a brew ratio of 55 - 60%, 18g coffee producing 33 to 30 grams of espresso with a luscious thick body and depth of flavour I have only experienced at a few high end cafe. Its a joy to be getting so much from my home roasts.

    A thing on the grind, trying to run the same dose/grind at a straight up full pressure extraction just chokes the machine and nothing comes out.

    I think LM USA site has a pretty good definition of pressure profiling.

    Define: Pressure Profiling

    Note that given the current early adoption phase of pressure profiling technology, everybody is still learning what is possible, us included. We have, for the past year, extensively used and experimented with pressure profiling capable prototypes and modified espresso machines and thought it is time to “go on the record” with what we have learned.

    What Pressure Profiling IS:

    Provides the ability to vary and/or manipulate brewing pressure (between 0 and 9 bars, static or progressive) during the extraction process
    An additional espresso preparation variable that, in itself, has a high degree of possible brewing parameters
    What Pressure Profiling is NOT:

    Necessarily a new machine
    Necessarily going to make EVERY coffee taste good*
    Capable of making bad coffee good
    The Holy Grail
    What Pressure Profiling DOES:

    Allows you to change the “volume” (or “expression”) of different flavor components to effect the balance and body of the shot*
    Tends to produce a rounder, softer espresso that highlights brightness, sweetness, and delicate notes to emerge from the body of the shot*
    What Pressure Profiling REQUIRES:

    A very attentive, well trained barista
    Good palate
    LOTS of experimentation to subject your coffee to various pressure profile curves to determine the best fit, as there is no right or wrong
    Objective and careful reconsideration of classic espresso extraction parameters (e.g. dosage, preinfusion time, total dwell time, etc.) in conjunction with open mindedness*
    *Experiments reveal that even the same pressure profile has dramatically different effects on different coffees. Some espressos do taste better when subjected to pressure profiling. Some don’t.

    In summary, this post is only meant to put some thoughts on pressure profiling, given some of the questions out there. If anything, this hopes to serve to get more discussion (and experimentation) going to further espresso quality and appreciation.

  35. #35
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muppet_man67 View Post
    It's not minute. In its most basic form you can change how much water you need to get a full extraction, ie 20% solids = balanced espresso with the body of ristretto. On a practical daily basis you can adjust the brighteness/bitter balance while keeping shot volume the same.

    The changes you can make are equally as significant as adjusting any other parameter.

    Are you in Melbourne? I'd be happy to show you some comparison shots on our Strada some time.
    Ah, I stand corrected. I didn't realise it was so significant as it's probably the last variable anyone talks about...

    Is pressure profiling something that could be done successfully by hand/eye, by opening the steam valve on a semi-auto to slow the typically-increased flow at the later stages of a shot?

    Love to take you up on the offer but I'm in Tassie =/

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    Ah, I stand corrected. I didn't realise it was so significant as it's probably the last variable anyone talks about...

    Is pressure profiling something that could be done successfully by hand/eye, by opening the steam valve on a semi-auto to slow the typically-increased flow at the later stages of a shot?

    Love to take you up on the offer but I'm in Tassie =/
    Perhaps, but you'll be affecting temperature stability when you do this, Ie on a silvia if I was able to control a 3 bar preinfusion via this method (I reckon it would be damn hard) I think it would use too much water/cool the boiler. There are some people over on Home Barista who have had success using variacs on the their pumps which might get a more repeatable result.

    You might find it worthwhile experimenting with the opv though. I run my silvia a fraction under 9 bar rather then bang on and prefer it this way, depends on how you like it.

    With regards to milk based drinks and even to some extent long blacks, it all makes much less of a difference. I keen to try and get my hands on a refractometer soon and really try and work out exactly what its all doing to extraction.

  37. #37
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Sorry, got my wires crossed; when you talked pressure profiling I was thinking during the shot rather than with preinfusion.

    You're right about the temp stability thing. I wonder if the easiest way to do preinfusion on a Silvia/Classic wouldn't be plumbing in a second OPV and solenoid (with the OPV set to 3bar and the solenoid manually actuated or on a timer).

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    Sorry, got my wires crossed; when you talked pressure profiling I was thinking during the shot rather than with preinfusion.

    You're right about the temp stability thing. I wonder if the easiest way to do preinfusion on a Silvia/Classic wouldn't be plumbing in a second OPV and solenoid (with the OPV set to 3bar and the solenoid manually actuated or on a timer).
    Full saturation pre-infusion is one of the big deals about pressure profiling. The ability to control the pre-wetting as steve82 said has a dramatic affect on the grind setting you may use. The other choices are brew pressure and whether or how much to slow the flow as the shot progresses.

    A pre-infusion specific opv is going to do the same thing to the boiler temp as opening the steam valve I would think your just returning hot water back to the tank rather the into the drip tray.

  39. #39
    Senior Member Dragunov21's Avatar
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    Nah, the way the Classic's set up the OPV is upstream of the boiler. Otherwise it'd heat the water resevoir and blow up the pump by discharging all the excess hot water in there.

  40. #40
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    Anyone heard the RRP of the 1 group Slayer in Australia?

  41. #41
    Not a Shoe Jimmytheboot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ben@genovese View Post
    Anyone heard the RRP of the 1 group Slayer in Australia?
    I was told 11K at the stand with the blue one, and heard that at the other stand with the red one they were quoting 9K

  42. #42
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    I got an email from the Sydney distributor. Pre-release anyone putting down full payment and who is happy to wait until expected production date September this year pays 11,000 (including GST)... people who buy later pay 12,100.

  43. #43
    enjoy black coffee JamesM's Avatar
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    Slayer have plans to set up an Australian operation.... big parts stock on shelves, more support, etc.



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