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Thread: Vesuvius by Ambient&Spresso

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    Vesuvius by Ambient&Spresso

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi guys,

    Here are some renderings of a new dual boiler machine from Ambient. Those who have kept an eye on discussions elsewhere may add the numbers and conclude that this one has some very special abilities inbuilt into its software as well as some ground breaking hardware for this class. This new machine has the potential to really shake up the competitors.

    I had a skype convo some time ago and was amazed by what I saw inside the prototype and what this newie is capable of... More info once I'm allowed to release it. :-X

    Ambient are looking for a name for it and I'll forward on any good suggestions. I'm told that there may even be a prize of some sort...

    We'll be evaluating it as a potential range candidate.

    Chris

    prima1.jpgprima2.jpgprima3.jpg

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    Member astr0b0y's Avatar
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    The Ambient Perspective!

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    I have to ok to release some further info:

    • Dual boilers- stainless steel
    • Gear volumetric pump (small, quiet and this enables pressure profiling of the shot).
    • LCD multiple function touch screen display
    • 5 different setting extraction profiles
    • Full PID control
    • Reservoir and main water connection- plumb or not as you prefer
    • Tank can be filled without the need to remove the top cover.

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Prodigio

    (Prodigy = a cause of wonder and admiration)

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    The Ambient Isothermal or Isotherm (I.e constant temperature) or maybe Ambient Adiabatic?

    Ambient Calculus (in reference to the PID) or Ambient Pnemonena

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    "The Ambient Synergy"

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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Profilo V = profile 5. Espresso Profilo V

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    Can't wait to see this one in the flesh. Please get them to add a shot mirror (as per Slayer)... if the user is going to pressure profile then it would be great not to have to squat to take a look at the flow characteristics from a naked PF.

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    Oh...how about the "Totale".

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    "Tempo", great rhythm and temperature

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    Chris,

    Would you mind providing some more information about Ambient&spresso generally? I tried to search this site as well as Google generally and didn't get much.

    Thanks,
    Terence

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    G'day Terrence, can do:

    Ambient&spresso is the brain child of Antonio Nurri who after 12 years of intensive work with Gruppo Izzo decided to establish his own company. I met Antonio in his role as export manager for Gruppo Izzo. The Alex Duetto was one of Antonio's many projects.

    Ambient works in three main areas:
    • Espresso machines and design
    • Coffee roasting plant design
    • Cafe design

    The first wave of espresso machinery (La Vela, Colloseum and this new dual boiler machine) will be presented at the Milan Host exhibition and I am looking forward to seeing the new gear in the metal.

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Ambient&spresso is the brain child of Antonio Nurri who after 12 years of intensive work with Gruppo Izzo...
    Thanks Chris. Sounds like impeccable pedigree.

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    Senior Groupie LindaD's Avatar
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    Costante?

    -Linda

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwantfm View Post
    Please get them to add a shot mirror (as per Slayer)...
    I haven't seen one Terrence. Do you have pics?

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    Three different views... it's a bit difficult to get a single good photo. Probably the best views are in the Slayer Espresso videos.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    And here's a decent video:

    Holyfrog likes this.

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    Very shiny!

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    Thanks kwantfm,

    I have pointed Antonio to this thread. He will no doubt keep an eye on our discussions.

    Cheers

    Chris

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    Hello to everybody, i'm Paolo and with Antonio i'm going ahead to show and start with the production of machines made in Ambient&spresso (sorry for this short introducing). I would like to add more specs on this machine. The pump have a brushless pump with gear and magnetic drive transmission, pressure value setting from 2 up to 12 bars. 3,5 liters reservoir, actually 2600 watts totally but i'm working on max 2000 watts, adjustable economy mode (you can set how many hours the machine must be on without any use), adjustable time to switch on and off (you can set at which time you want to switch on or switch of daily, on the display for every single coffee you can read the brew time. 5 different profiles can be set and for each profile you can set 5 steps and for each step you can set time and pressure. Ciao Paolo

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    No doubt this will be in extreme machine pricing territory. An interesting consideration that might sway a potential customer in this price bracket is the one thing that is clearly different between this pressure profiling machine and its four main competitors, which I believe to be:
    1. La Marzocco Strada MP/EP;
    2. Slayer;
    3. Synesso Hydra; and
    4. Modded La Marzocco GS3 to Strada MP spec.

    All four of these machines have a saturated group head, which may indicate better temperature stability.

    The E61 is classic, looks beautiful, and lends itself to that shiny chrome loveliness. I think it would be good for Antonio to demonstrate excellent temperature stability as well.

    The multiple profile settings should be very useful as only the Strada EP and Hydra do that. Hopefully pressure profiling can be achieved manually as well with the pressure being determined by how far the actuation lever has been moved.

    Just talkin' out of my hat here.

    Terence

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    On our machine there is no manual variable pressure by lever only set manually by touch screen and saved, this is a very simple operation. About the temperature stability I can tell only that after 60 (and over) seconds there is a 0,2 C difference measured inside of the portafilter, it should be acceptable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaoloCortese View Post
    On our machine there is no manual variable pressure by lever only set manually by touch screen and saved, this is a very simple operation. About the temperature stability I can tell only that after 60 (and over) seconds there is a 0,2 C difference measured inside of the portafilter, it should be acceptable.
    Thank you. It would be great if you could share some videos of extractions that you've done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwantfm View Post
    Thank you. It would be great if you could share some videos of extractions that you've done.
    Today we will make some videos and i'll post for sure.

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    Welcome to CoffeeSnobs Paolo!

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Welcome to CoffeeSnobs Paolo!

    Chris
    Thanks Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Welcome to CoffeeSnobs Paolo!

    Chris
    How rude of me!! Indeed welcome Paolo... it's great to have you on the site. Really nice to hear direct from a manufacturer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwantfm View Post
    How rude of me!! Indeed welcome Paolo... it's great to have you on the site. Really nice to hear direct from a manufacturer.
    No problem Kwantfm, it's always a great value to know the people's opinion, not always what I want is what they ask and I prefer to listen too much...

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    Welcome to CoffeSnobs Paolo! It's always great to hear from someone who actually makes machines!

    Please keep us up to date with all the developments of your machine.

    James
    SniffCoffee

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    Good morning guys I just filmed something, sorry if the video is oriented wrong but I think that it will be clear. http://db.tt/atKOrWmU for any question on the information shown on the display go ahead...

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Thanks Paolo

    I think there will be a few on CoffeeSnobs interested in this machine. Most of us, including me, haven't carried out temperature profiling so can't fully appreciate what this video is demonstrating.

    I see there are three different temperature readings in the video:
    125deg C at the top of the display which I assume is the steam boiler temp?
    86 - 89 lower down on the display which i assume is the grouphead temp?
    82.x on the meter which I assume is the temperature measured by a Scace device?

    This is Profile 5 (out of 5 profiles). Are these profiles preset or can they be customised?

    What's the first number (9.x) Pressure at the OPV?

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    Hi flynnaus,

    The bonus with this machine is that it adds pressure profiling by way of the gear pump (read exxy) and some nice software.

    The inbuilt PID offers everything we already know that a well configured dual boiler can do with respect to temperature.

    Cheers

    Chris

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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Thanks Chris

    I'm in two minds about that level of tweaking: one side says why bother, i'm still getting really good coffee out of the GPP; the other side wonders what extra dimension would it add to my coffee experience to produce even better coffee.

    Then the keyword "exxy" triggers a twinge in the hip-pocket nerve and I am forced to come to my senses. Can't say it's dented my curiosity though.

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    Will be interesting to see pricing level. I'm expecting it to be a 1,000-1,500 premium to something like the Duetto. I'm basing this on the differential cost of a Fluid-O-Tech pump over a good rotary plus the additional software work required. This would still make the machine significantly cheaper than a one group Slayer and a good combination of a little cheaper and a lot less work than a self-modded LM GS3.

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    Some more info via Antonio/Paolo to help those interested to decipher the display:

    "First row top:
    1) pump pressure, you can see it changes during the extraction
    2) steam boiler temperature in C
    3) steam boiler pressure in bar

    Second row:
    Pre-set profile you are using, in this case #5


    Third sector:

    1) reservoir water level min-max (3 scale level. When no water in reservoir display turns red, but allows the last coffee shot to be completed if this is in progress, so no more wasted coffee by shottus interruptus
    2) 2 function time (hour when machine in standby, extraction counter when machine makes coffee)
    3) Day
    4) Coffee boiler temperature C
    5) Coffee boiler gauge (3 scale level)

    Left side of the display there is a thermometer connected by a temperature probe placed into the portafilter, between the bottom of the basket containing the coffee and the PF’s hole where the coffee flows down.

    You have a lot options in the main menu like language, display colour, Celsius or Fahrenheit etc.

    The 5 adjustable profiles have 5 extraction time/pressure pump steps. You can also set PID parameters according to your need."

    Cheers

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Some more info via Antonio/Paolo to help those interested to decipher the display:

    "First row top:
    1) pump pressure, you can see it changes during the extraction
    2) steam boiler temperature in C
    3) steam boiler pressure in bar

    Second row:
    Pre-set profile you are using, in this case #5


    Third sector:

    1) reservoir water level min-max (3 scale level. When no water in reservoir display turns red, but allows the last coffee shot to be completed if this is in progress, so no more wasted coffee by shottus interruptus
    2) 2 function time (hour when machine in standby, extraction counter when machine makes coffee)
    3) Day
    4) Coffee boiler temperature C
    5) Coffee boiler gauge (3 scale level)

    Left side of the display there is a thermometer connected by a temperature probe placed into the portafilter, between the bottom of the basket containing the coffee and the PFs hole where the coffee flows down.

    You have a lot options in the main menu like language, display colour, Celsius or Fahrenheit etc.

    The 5 adjustable profiles have 5 extraction time/pressure pump steps. You can also set PID parameters according to your need."

    Cheers

    Chris
    Good day Thanks Chris just perfect explanation, as soon as I can I'll post additional videos.

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    More video of programming mode from Paolo

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/sl301cduvz...rogramming.wmv

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    Also for who have problem with electricity or just to save money, in the pid setting you can also choose between simultaneous or sequentially way to warm up the boilers.

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    Would love to see an extraction please.

    My sense with pressure profiling pump machines, is that the main profile that people want to replicate is that of a lever. From what I understand a lot of people using levers effectively preinfuse at low pressure until they see first drips from their naked PF. Means that preinfusion can be quite a long process. At that stage they apply more pressure.

    I'm thinking that if it is possible for this machine to not only have profiles but to also have some manual profiling ability then this would be helpful, as first drips and then pressure ramp would be difficult to consistently achieve given the variability between environmental conditions, grind and coffee used.

    One additional feature that would be useful would be an automatic cleaning cycle. Pretty sure LM GS3 incorporates this.

    Thanks,
    Terence
    saraish likes this.

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    First official rendering of this newie..
    db.jpg

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    Looks neat

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    Very nice.

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    Disappointing, compared to the innovative styling they put into the La Vela lever and the "colloseum" .
    AtomicGrog and Bosco_Lever like this.

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    It's a different market b52. With this one, the smarts are inside.

    You'd be looking at a Slayer to purchase a similar feature set.

    Let's see what it looks like in the metal. I'll be instagraming from HOST.

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    Most e61 machines are pretty average looking, throw an e61 on a ss box and the clock off, but this is a step backwards somehow.

    For a name how about Quasimodo

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    Vesuvius?

    I guess both Izzo and Ambient failed to see the irony in naming espresso machines after places which are strongly associated with images of being buried alive in ash...

    Forecast for Pompeii that day? Ambient Vesuvius

    blend52 likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    It's a different market b52. With this one, the smarts are inside.

    You'd be looking at a Slayer to purchase a similar feature set.

    Let's see what it looks like in the metal. I'll be instagraming from HOST.
    I'm the first one to rank function before form, but in reality , aesthetics is a critical factor in the marketability for any piece of domestic eqiuipment.....as the even guys at Slayer have obviously realized also !
    ..Looking forward to the photos of the real thing !

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    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    I'm the first one to rank function before form, but in reality , aesthetics is a critical factor in the marketability for any piece of domestic eqiuipment.....as the even guys at Slayer have obviously realized also !
    ..Looking forward to the photos of the real thing !
    Agreed. It didn't influence opinion on the Londinium too much and that was one of the ugliest boxes I have seen!

    We'll see what this one looks like when it's really in the metal- not just an average quality rendering....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Agreed. It didn't influence opinion on the Londinium too much and that was one of the ugliest boxes I have seen!....
    Ahh !, but the Londinium had the advantage of price point over most other single commercial group lever machine's, ....as well as an "extravagant" sales pitch about its capabilities !

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    I'm not sure how the Londinium is any uglier than that thing?

    The panels look all rippled, like they are too thin or something... I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.



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