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Thread: Commercial vs High End Home Brewing Machines? New to coffee =)

  1. #1
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    Commercial vs High End Home Brewing Machines? New to coffee =)

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I am new to the real coffee world and just recently taken a professional Barista course just to see what the professional do.

    I am rather confused what is the difference between a high end home machine (ie. Breville dual boiler) vs a $10k+ machine?

    I understand boilers are bigger, more group handles in the commercial units, what else are different?

    This is assuming a "small" coffee operation with 150 cups per day sales max.

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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Welcome to CS gonsped,
    Ummm..........and with all due respect to owners of the Breville DB and their enjoyment of their machine
    but I don't think it quite fits the category of 'high end home machine'

    Check the categories of the sub-forums for domestic machines from 'entry level, sub $500' to 'extreme machines >$3000' on the home page.

    Your question is a bit fruit salad, I'm not sure what angle to take, at this time of night.

    For instance........ commercial machines such as the La Marzocco, Mirage; Kees van der Westen, Spirit; Slayer and Synesso are high end machines.
    All are over 20K for a two group, (I'm pretty sure).

    These same companies all make the highest end of single group, double boiler domestic machines; LM Linea, KvdW Speedster and single group Slayers and Synessos.
    From 5k-circa 10k.
    Not a lot of difference except group number and size but that is apple and apples.

    The difference between apples and oranges is build quality, component quality, temp stability, temp recovery time; lever, e-61 or saturated group; manual,
    volumetric or automatic operation; longevity, resale value and a few other things as well.

    And thats just for starters...........
    Last edited by chokkidog; 2nd January 2014 at 11:11 PM. Reason: autocorrect strikes again!!

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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    I probably should add a lever to the highest end domestic............ maybe the new Ambient?
    There are maybe one or two others that would qualify. Suggestions?? ;-D...... Bit of can of worms, that one. ;-D

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    Senior Member smokey's Avatar
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    good job chokkidog, can I reiterate your comment that temperature recovery and stability are two very important factors in coffee making. A commercial setup needs to be able to pour coffee after coffee, all day, this means fresh cold water is constantly being added to the boiler bringing its temperature down. The boiler needs to recover immediately to bring the temp back to its optimal level for the next coffee, thats important. Plus the steamer needs to be able to do the same. A cheaper machine does do this too, but slowly, and not as efficiently, and thats why this snob gets upgraditis beyond his means.

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    Also need to factor in vibrating pump on most domestic machines compared with rotary pump on commercial (and top end domestic)

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    As chokkidog sort of alluded to (I think) there isn't a black and white cut off from high end home machine and commercial machine as many home machines that are considered high end now are almost commercial like your single group LM's and synesso. So I guess if the alterior motive to your question is to do with buying the cheapest capable machine you can for 150 cups a day cafe then you will have to consider each model on its own merits whether it's considered home or commercial.

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    One other important consideration is the power consumption of the machine.
    Domestic machines are designed to plug into your standard 10 amp power point.
    Commercial machines tend to consume far more power and usually will require a separate circuit with a much higher rating- basically custom wiring- set up by an electrician.
    Often custom plumbing is required to connect to mains water supply and often, even a waste connection by a plumber.
    Most consumer machines are simply 'plug and play'....

    It's kinda like comparing your own little toaster oven on the bench at home, and the Stonka one that toasts your Subway Sub.... Automatically, to perfection, in 30 seconds flat..over and over again.... Chalk and cheese....

    The other factor is whilst you say 150 coffees a day- in a shop setting, those coffees will most likely come in peak periods, where you might have maybe 5-10 people waiting at one time. Can you imagine saying to those people waiting, "Aaah sorry guys, we have to cool the boiler so we can re-fill it because it's got a bit low on water.
    It will only take 12-18 minutes or so to get it filled and back up to temperature. Have a free iced water to chill out while you wait..."

    How much business will walk out the door and never come back?

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    There's not a lot of difference between a Rocket Giotto Evoluzione and a 1 group Expobar Megacrem. The Megacrem (in 2 group guise) is definitely a commercial machine, and you couldn't argue that a 1 group wasn't in the same class.

  9. #9
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wynton87 View Post
    As chokkidog sort of alluded to (I think) there isn't a black and white cut off from high end home machine and commercial machine as many home machines that are considered high end now are almost commercial like your single group LM's and synesso. So I guess if the alterior motive to your question is to do with buying the cheapest capable machine you can for 150 cups a day cafe then you will have to consider each model on its own merits whether it's considered home or commercial.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ol_Grumpy View Post
    The other factor is whilst you say 150 coffees a day- in a shop setting, those coffees will most likely come in peak periods, where you might have maybe 5-10 people waiting at one time. Can you imagine saying to those people waiting, "Aaah sorry guys, we have to cool the boiler so we can re-fill it because it's got a bit low on water.
    It will only take 12-18 minutes or so to get it filled and back up to temperature. Have a free iced water to chill out while you wait..."

    How much business will walk out the door and never come back?
    That late at night I thought it was an innocent question but if you guys are right and the OP is alluding to running a business with a Breville then that is another thing altogether.
    I don't think anyone serious about their coffee would consider a 1 grp for 150 coffees /day, (12kgs/5day week), let alone the one mentioned.
    I was recently in a cafe at Torquay, not very big, not very busy ( at 2 p.m. Boxing Day) but a 3 group KvdW Spirit on the counter. Sort of underlines your point in a big way. ;-D

    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    I probably should add a lever to the highest end domestic............ maybe the new Ambient?
    There are maybe one or two others that would qualify. Suggestions?? ;-D...... Bit of can of worms, that one. ;-D
    And I should have mentioned the new Izzo Leva as well. But I'm really waiting for an Australian designed and built lever, emanating
    from a particular little workshop in Northcote, to top the lever list....;-D ......... or a 1 Grp KvdW lever (unlikely but I'm hopeful ;-D).

    You can also add the LM GS3 to the list of high end domestic, omitting it was an oversight.

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    TC
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    That late at night I thought it was an innocent question but if you guys are right and the OP is alluding to running a business with a Breville then that is another thing altogether.
    You mean to say that I can't start my business as a car mechanic? I have a 300mm shifter....
    chokkidog likes this.

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    Nope. You'll also need a screwdriver and a roll of gaffa tape.
    amellor and chokkidog like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    Nope. You'll also need a screwdriver and a roll of gaffa tape.
    Roger that....

  13. #13
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    All you'll need now is a red tool box ...........and you'll be able to call yourself qualified. ;-D
    TC likes this.

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    I've spent most of today on the laundry floor (apparently) fixing the pump on a front loading washing machine using a) pliers b) an appropriated shaped stick that fell off a gum tree in my yard and c) coat hanger wire bent at 90 degrees and sharpened with a metal file. I might take out an ad.

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    There is running a business, and running a business. Some people might be lucky to sell ten coffees a day - a small sandwich shop or whatever. I don't see the harm, if your customers aren't demanding, in using a domestic machine in that particular situation.

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    Hildy you're right...
    But it was the OP who originally suggested the figure of 150 cups a day...
    And it seems they've left the building....
    How snobby of them... : tic



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