Post By chokkidog
Post By Jonathon
Slayer, Synesso and KvdW
Just curious whether anyone has ever got the pleasure of trying the shot coming out of those machine back to back with the same coffee bean and grinder setup? If yes, I'm very interested in hearing about your experience. Thanks in advance
I would like to hear the same.
In the position of maybe spoiling myself, considering between a speedster and a slayer 1 group.
Big decision, the amazing build and technology of the speedster or the extra variable and shot control via pressure profiling with the slayer.
Lots of reading and research to do before I decide to put down the money and would love to hear some personal experience from some CS members or sponsors.
I understand the issues of serviceability and support and both machines are very different to a certain degree, but either would be a nice compliment to the silver streak in the roastery.
Thanks in advance
While there'll be some CSers with speedsters, I didn't think the 220v 10amp Slayer had landed yet?
No sign of the 1 group slayer as yet.
I hear that there have been some issues with early build machines but the 1 group will be at V3. I am also looking forward to a play, though I am enamoured with levers.
I do wonder if in the real world there is the time to experiment with pressure profiles or is it just the technology factor. Are most just using the slayer/spirit to emulate a spring lever waning pressure profile?
Have to agree with you there Chris..... there is a bit of commotion about coffee 'wasted' via grind retention in various grinders, so how practical
would it be for a home machine with pressure profiling and the need to run multiple shots to find the 'sweet spot', which after a while becomes subjective
anyway and probably a constantly moving target?
I'm of the suspicion that these technologies are partly designed to allow the marketing of these bells and whistles to play on some people's inherent insecurities.
And I don't mean just in the home environment.....it goes through the whole industry.
Even as a commercial roaster I would only go as far as a double boiler for benchmarking coffees..... I don't supply machines and I should be concentrating
on real world outcomes as far as my clients and their machines go. About half and half single/dual boiler. If I come across someone with a pressure profiling rig,
I'll be more than happy to supply them with all the coffee they need while they sink shot after shot chasing their tail. We all know about the shifting goal posts of our coffee as it rests and ages.
Sure, these machines are great, but they aren't necessary...... that is my point. I know of one iconic coffee shop/roaster in Melbourne who recently
got rid of their Synesso and installed an LM GB5..... and the coffee is better for it.
As to the OP....those sorts of fantasies....the listed machines all lined up on the one bench on the same day.... will probably never happen, not even in the factories where they are built; although that might be the most likely place.
If I had room for two 'dream machines' that are currently on the market?..... Kees Speedster (by a long, long shot) and after having a few shots from the new Izzo Alex Lever, yep,
I'll have one of those too!!
Last edited by chokkidog; 16th February 2014 at 10:10 AM.
I was going to place a "like" on your post but felt it better to say:
Well written, you have annunciated many of my own sentiments in your post...
The only problem is that "the market" is made up of a lot of people that don't have the required background to be able to make these kinds of observations and think all this technical stuff is a "must have", even if they cant use it.
Hi Chokkidog, out of curiosity, it sounds like you put the Speedster way ahead of the GS/3? Any particular reasons? (Excluding aesthetics)
Originally Posted by chokkidog
Hey Johnathon, The Speedster isn't that much different from the GS3, the original 6 Speedsters were all built around LM internals and GS2 groups.
I'd be more than happy with a GS3, they are a great machine. There are pro's and cons with both but Johnathon, it's about the design, I'm just a sucker for it.
Thanks for the reply Chris and chokkidog, I agree for most home users and even the busiest coffee places pressure profiling would be frustrating and unproductive. Plenty of shops went down the slayer road as a point of distinction and wound up reverting back to more traditional machines and LaMarzocco certainly prospered and increased it's market share here in OZ.
But for me sitting in my little roastery searching for nirvana and personally enjoying playing with variables the slayer has its own appeal. Was always working towards the speedster until this showed up at MICE last year.
However as you say chokkidog you are mindful of your market and the machinery sitting on their bench and benchmarking your product around that, this is a really important point for me to take on and I thank you for the reminder.
Still leaning towards the speedster as I just love the engineering and design, I like the yellow red side panels but the minister of finance recommends I should be buying the more subtle black/chrome ones.
I love the Spirit as a machine Chris. Checked a couple out, outstanding. If it only came as a single group Hmm maybe I could put a 2 group in the roastery!!
What about the new machine coming to talk coffee? The one with programmable pressure profiling? Looks pretty interesting in specs
Black end panels do it for me too Chester, the red and yellow a little too obvious on the automotive origins of the design.
For me it comes down to what I can continue to live with day after day.
If it happens for you, post some pics and good luck, sounds like if your now talking about décor the big hurdle has been crossed!!
I should've added in my first post (and thanks to Johnathon for the reminder) my shortlist would be the Speedster and the GS3 (for pump machines).
The Synesso and Slayer wouldn't get a look in.
Some interesting things happening with the speedster at the moment. I did some enquiries direct to Kees Van Der Westen on the similarities of the Speedster and the Spirit. Pretty similar it turns out a little more refinement in the Spirit but all created from the Speedster as a base.
What has been really nice is Kees responded himself and has happily shared his knowledge and advice with me helping bring me closer to a final purchase.
Finally got to check a Speedster out in the flesh at CafeBiz show in Brisbane a couple of weeks ago, had the flat black body with chrome and black side panels, looked amazing and was pulling lovely shots.
But what developments are happening with the Speedster I hear you ask, well firstly it's getting a shot timer (one of the things I personally thought it lacked) and also getting an upgrade to its temperature control with an ECO mode when not pumping out the shots (taken from the Spirit design) these are two great improvements to an already amazing machine.
So apart from current Australian stock all new built Speedsters will have these upgrades as standard, so if you are in the market for one I would hold off for an extra couple of months and wait for one of these upgraded machines.
The other bit of exciting news is that Kees isn't letting current Speedster owners miss out on the new development with a soon to be released shot timer kit that you can retro fit to your old machine as an update. Knowing the quality and engineering that Kees puts into his machines I'm sure these kits will seamlessly integrate onto your existing machine.
I might even put a Spirit duetto in the roastery, the silver streak is overkill for a home roaster so why not do the same with the coffee machine
For me? If there was a 1 group Spirit in production, next to a Speedster.... I'll take the Speedster..... hands down. :-D
And thank you Kees, very much!
But a nice quandary to have, nevertheless!
What about a Speedster next to an Alex Duetto Leva? Two groups for about the same $ as a Spirit.....
and the best of two worlds!!
My perfect roastery bench would look something like
Izzo leva -- Speedster -- Slayer all in single group
And I will tell the minister of finance they are all needed to ensure my roast profiles are correct to accommodate any bean purchasers home based machine.
I believe JetBlack have a Speedster for sale at the moment at a reduced sale price .. unless it's already been snapped up
It's gone :-(. Well we've got it for another couple of days while we service it prior to delivery.
Note: I didn't buy it and just post here to gloat :-)