Profitec Pro 700
A new model (and brand!) from an established espresso machine manufacturer.
The Profitec brand
Profitec is the company that manufactures the "ECM Manufacture" brand of machines (Technika, Controvento etc). The company has put it's own name to a new line of machines and the Pro 700 is the first of these.
Pro 700 Highlights
A PID controlled dual boiler which can run off it's internal tank or be plumbed.
- Dual boiler
- PID-display for the individual temperature adjustment of both boilers
- PID-display indicates the brewing time in seconds
- E61 brew-group
- Rotary pump
- Wear-free rotary valves (spring loaded so user can't over tighten)
- Cool touch steam and hot water wands
- Separate grid to raise cups
- Boiler and pump pressure gauges
- Stainless steel boiler with 0.75 l volume for espresso preparation
- Steam and hot water boiler in stainless steel with a 2.0 l volume
- Steam boiler with separate on/off switch
- Boiler insulation
- Two heaters with 1 x 1200 Watts and 1 x 1400 Watts
- Switchable from water tank to fixed water connection
- Water tank with a 3 l volume and water tank connector
- Automatic shut-off by way of low water volume sensor
- Large drip tray with a 1 l capacity
- Removeable cup tray
- Voltage 230V
- Weight 31 kg
- Dimensions W x D x H: 340 x 475 x 420 mm without portafilter
- 340 x 590 x 420 mm with portafilter
sounds good, I see it's on your site already, I assume available now then. (I don't have the cash for a new machine anyway)
Is the brew boiler fed through a hx ?
Yes a few have already landed. The brew boiler isn't fed through a HX and I'm guessing that that was an explicit decision given the Scace results we've seen,
That PID Controller looks interesting Charlie... :cool:
Do you have any specific info on it at all?
It's a Gicar PID Mal. It controls both boilers - pretty standard stuff there. The interesting feature is the shot timer which is one of those features you can live without until you've used a machine that has one ... I guess extra information isn't a bad thing.
I probably mistook the Shot Timer for the PID Controller.
Actually the shot timer is a built in feature of the PID controller. So at idle it alternates between displaying brew and steam temperature like most PID controllers. But as soon as the brew lever is lifted to start the shot, the display on the PID controller shows the shot time.
Always difficult determining functional details from a photo and 1,000Kms... ;)
Neat idea to integrate the shot timer into the PID. At first glance looks R58ish.
You're right. So here's a vid :cool:
Originally Posted by Dimal
Cheers Charlie... :cool:
Thanks very much mate. :)
I'd love to hear some more about this machine now it's becoming a bit more widely available. Are there any photos of the internals, reservoir access, and so on? Could you expand on the Scace readings comment?
nice work flow in the video Charlie
learn something new everyday.
I'll put the photos on my todo list! But the water tank is accessed by lifting the cup warmer tray.
Originally Posted by Bob_McBob
On the Scace, it had excellent inter and intra shot temperature stability. Some dual boiler machines feed water through a heat exchanger in the steam boiler before entry to the brew boiler. The reason for this is to avoid the brew water temperature dropping due to the influx of cooler water into the brew boiler. If this was an issue in the Pro 700 we would have seen a drop in brew water temperature and we didn't. So the Pro 700 avoids some complexity with no apparent drop in performance.
Heres a great youtube video with an overview of the 700 , amazing machines :)
I have been torn between the Duetto and R58 for a while now.
The Duetto fails on asthetics.
The R58 fails because of the cheap PID. I just can't live with that. What a piece of junk to add to an otherwise top quality machine!
I saw the Profitec Pro 700 at MICE and was very impressed. It seems to tick all of the boxes for me.
Might be an idea to have a look at the 2014 model Pauly. It shades the R58 on finish.
Originally Posted by Pauly404
I looked at the R58 when they first came out and found the build very messy , nothing recent tho so cant really comment.
Having dealt with the Alex and the Profitec I can confidently say the Profitec 700 has a far better build quality over the Alex and quieter. , also the shot timer is also a damn cool feature.
Sorry- It may be that NZ machines are not of the same spec as Australian machines. I haven't used a rotary pump machine quieter than the Duetto.
Originally Posted by nzcoffeetech
On build quality, I am yet to see inside a Profitec, but I have not seen better internal build nor internal finish than the current build Izzo and we have photos to support the statement on our website. Profitec may well be on par. I'd be putting my faith in the first hand experience of Jetblack on that front.
Dont get me wrong the Izzo has great build quality and 12 months ago I would have said they were the best machine $ for $ , but after having them side by side my personal choice is easily the Profitec.
I took my ECM Technika Profi IV for service at Jetblack Espresso's workshop. They happened to have a Profitec 700 available for me to play with. I ended up trading in and walking out with the Profitec (most expensive machine service ever).
I've pulled quite a few shots since and have spent a lot of time with the Scace as well. The Profitec is very temperature stable intrashot (doesn't vary more than 0.2*C) and given at least a minute between shots the intershot temperature stability is also very good. Steam pressure is excellent. Build quality high. Quietness of the rotary pump really is noticeable.
What did I prefer in the ECM over the Profitec? I like the lever handles on the ECM for steam and hot water, although the "no crush" dials work well on the Profitec. I like the steam boiler and extraction pressure gauges high. I prefer the solid edges of the cup warming tray on the ECM and I also preferred the way you could flip up half of the warming tray on the ECM to refill the reservoir (you need to take the whole tray off the Profitec).
In the end though I upgraded because of the difference in the cup. I've posted a number of times about how happy I was with the ECM. The Profitec (amazingly to me) has taken the quality of espresso shots up to a whole different level. I've lowered temperature to 92*C and it enhances the enzymatic flavours, reduces the roasty dry distillates and provides a cleaner, more elegant acidity profile. I think that the clarity of the flavours on the dual boiler is fantastic.
Thanks to Charlie, Debbie, Andrew and Michael at Jetblack Espresso. As always they're really friendly and helpful and clearly love their coffee machines!
One more thing to add (and I feel a little silly typing this)... I now love the shot timer. I didn't think I was going to look at it at all, but I think that it can help with consistency when grind and dose are dialled in properly.
Thanks for the kind words kwantfm. Enjoy the new machine and keep the tasting notes coming. The funny thing is, my experience with the shot timer is exactly the same.
I've spent a good hour and a half playing with the Scace. I didn't like the PID overshoot so ended up reducing the P constant for the PID down to 0.9 from manufacturer's recommended 2.5. With a target brew temperature of 92*C it takes the brew boiler about 40 seconds to fully recover following a 27 second extraction. I have relatively slow work flow as I hand grind with an HG one so a low P constant doesn't impact me negatively. Intrashot temperature profile is a slight rise of between 0.4*C and 1.0*C. Average is about 0.5*C though and I'm not sure what caused the single instance of a 1.0*C rise that I saw. I also found that an E1 setting of 12 (down from manufacturer's recommended 14) produced a good match between PID reading and Scace.
I'm interested in this machine and have a couple of questions.
I run my current HX machine off a Wemo switch which has a maximum rating of 2400watts.
The profitec has two boilers with a total wattage of 2600. Does the machine ever run both boilers at full tilt simultaneously?
Any other reasons it couldn't be run off a timer switch?
You can alter the way the machine powers the boilers via the PID display. I think that the default setting gets the brew boiler to temperature first then energises the steam boiler. I run my Profitec 700 via a Wemo.
One more - how long is the warmup time before you can brew?
The boilers get up to temperature quite quickly, but it's the time taken for the E61 group head to get to a stable temperature that is the real issue. I give mine 30-40 minutes.
Thanks. About the same as I allow on my current Elektra.
looks like a fantastic machine; beautifully built like the izzo duetto.
i love the idea of the shot timer in the pid: i have a timer velcroed to the wall to time my shots - this would solve that.
i dont think i can justify a changeover from the izzo just for a timer.
how do they compare $ wise; is there much in it?
Originally Posted by nzcoffeetech
Profitec Pro 700
Ok got mine and very impressed so far. Lots of nice stainless steel and the workmanship is fantastic.
I have the newer design with the plumbable driptray, so it must be fresh off the boat.
Hi Herzog. Would you mind posting a photo of the drip tray? Does it come with a hole?
Originally Posted by herzog
Comes with a hole which is sealed off with a bolt and washer. There's a little kit with tubing etc in the box for plumbing the drip tray.
I've had mine a couple of weeks now and thought I'd check back in with some feedback.
As background to buying the machine, I've been running an Elektra SA for about 5 years and have been looking to update to a double boiler machine. My main use is Espressos and Americanos for me, Caps for the Mrs, and "fluffy milk" for the (young) kids, plus whatever guests want.
The machines under consideration were the GS/3, Controvento, Vesuvius and the Profitec.
Three of the machines got ruled out:
GS/3 - too ugly, Mrs didn't want it in the kitchen (I had a laugh)
Controvento - too expensive
Vesuvius - was close on this one. Intriguing machine, but ultimately the programmability wasn't for me. I'm more of a set-and-forget user, rather than fartarseing around with settings all day.
So two weeks on and the Profitec has more than met expectations.
The ease of use factor is very high. As long as your grind is ok, its very hard to pull a bad shot on this machine. The shot timer is a great feature, and I'm surprised it's not more common, as it's a total no brainer. Also great is the extra riser for the drip tray. This allows you to get espresso cups closer to the spouts, while still offering clearance for larger cups.
Steaming is also very straightforward and hard to get wrong. It's a little too powerful for the smallest jugs, but ideal for medium or larger milk jugs
I've got the boilers running at 94 and 125C for the moment and that seems to be working for me.
It looks good on the bench. The styling is plain, but it has presence - bit of a Germanic "utilitarian" thing going on. It looks like it was cut from a block of solid gleaming stainless steel.
I am new here and am currently thinking of getting a new machine. I started off looking at the Giotto Evoluzione V2 and the Vibiemme Super Lever 2. At that time I was pretty sure that I will buy one of these two machines. However, at the weekend I went to Jetblack and had a look at some of their display... Now I moved away from those machines and am looking at the R58 and the Proiftec Pro 700. When reading all the posts about these machines, I come to the conclusion that both machines seems to be extremely good and that it basically comes down to personal preference.
Would you coffee lovers agree to that, or are there any major issues with one or the other?
I currently have a Kitchenaid Artisan. It makes ok-ish Espressos, however, the steaming of the machine is less than great imo.
Profitec Pro 700
I looked at both, as they are similar machines and close in price.
Two factors swung it to the Profitec - build quality (including stainless steel internals), and the internal PID with shotclock.
Have a look at the teardown videos on YouTube. Really nice engineering.
Also, isn't the KitchenAid a mixmaster type thing??
My opinion- both great machines and if well maintained you should have a terrific user experience.
After weighing up the pros and cons, you really can choose whichever one best ticks your boxes.
You may also wish to consider the Alex Duetto- also excellent.
You may also wish to consider the Alex Duetto- also excellent.[/QUOTE]
I did look at the Duetto III as well, however, I must admit that I prefer the looks of both the R58 and the Pro 700.
What would you consider the better way to refill the machines (I won't be able to plumb)? I am not sure how annoying it will be to always take the cups of the cup warmer when refilling the R58. Being able to lift the complete cup warmer seems to be the more convenient... I'd be very interested of the view of others here.
Thanks again for all your help... I really like this forum
I have the Profitec and don't mind taking the tray off to fill... I generally don't have many cups on top but do keep my PF and second filter basket on top.
i had the giotto for 10 years and no issues with filling it up with water, now with the r58 again no issues at all, as its only 1 row of cups.
On a normal day though, there would not be much need to be filling it up too often.
Empty out every night, fill with fresh water in the morning and that should be plenty for a days worth with just myself and the wife.
At the end of the day either machine will treat you well, comes down to personal preference.
Thanks for the good feedback. This makes a decision a lot easier :)
Ok... After a few weeks of traveling and lots of thinking about the best set-up, I went back to Jetblack again today. Resulting in the purchase of a Pro700 and the ECM grinder. Set-up of both was easy and the first coffee was much better than with the old machine.
I am new to this forum and actually registered to tell a story:
I was a defiant non-coffee non-tea drinker for 40odd years until I migrated to the Northern Rivers of NSW and noticed that the region produces its own variety of coffee beans... tried ... bought a Rancilio Silvia with a Rocky from a local and spent 6 years of happy low-end 2 per day coffee drinking up until Christmas 2014 when my wife and I decided to upgrade the kitchen... and I decided to upgrade the coffee machine.
Short research of a non-pro, some pics, a video or two and I landed by Charlie @ at Jetblack again because he has been my reference for all technical issues with the Silvia. And when he said that the Profitec is sitting on his home bench I splurged into it without even looking further.
The story begins here. It was meant to be a Christmas present and was sent with some purposeful delay towards the end of November. Hunter express kept its where abouts secret as usual until it appeared at the doorstep sitting on a small skid, nicely packed by the team of Jetblack. I was excited as a child, opened the box, put it on my still old kitchen bench and the whole room started shining - wow, never seen a thing like that before. Excellent is an understatement. Read through the instructions quickly, poured water into the tank (it was meant to be plumbed in later) and switched on. I wondered a bit why the top cup holder was bent nicely inwards but it was so symmetrical that I didn't look further. Machine was so quiet, went hot quickly, i decided to test with a shot of my organic Ewingsdale coffee. From the K3 touch straight in - bingo! Never seen a mouse tail before... Amazing taste, the luck of the beginner. Then I wondered again, why is the water tank broken. And then, only after that I started looking a bit more critically ... and noticed that the whole thing was bent and the left panel was ripped off the screws but still holding... and I inspected the box and it was damaged on one corner and... The machine obviously suffered a severe transport damage - must have rolled and fallen hard on one edge, enough to bend the steel of the cupholder, and the top and to break off the edge of the water tank.
I saw my Christmas present plan falling apart (luckily I was alone and no one could see my mood). Indeed, the machine was working - despite the 37 kg box rolling through the truck and hitting corners. Well, I was on the phone the next instant.
Debbie sighed as she saw the photos ... and I must say she and the team of Jetblack immediately accepted that I need a new machine sent without any discussions.
Two strenuous weeks later, waiting for deliveries, inspections, discussing transport and packaging options and the second Pro700 appeared at my door again, this time to stay. My wife and I had two coffee free weeks... with a shiny Christmas in the end.
Kudos to Jetblack for the stress management and for the unproblematic solutions.
Now, 2 weeks later I have changed the whole coffee making process: I started using a pocket scale to measure intitially 15, then 17, and now I am at 18 g steady of beans. I took off the hood of the K3 touch grinder and pour the 18 g straight into the grinder's hole, cover it with my hand and grind QUETLY, ... and it works EVERYTIME.
I am a happy user and still learner. But I must admit I never knew that espresso can taste so sweet!
Thank you Jetblack!
Welcome to CS te4o and thankyou for the kind words. May the *new* Pro 700 continue to deliver sweet espresso,
Te4o, I can only confirm the great experience with JetBlack Espresso. Their service is second to none... I hope you enjoy your new machine as much as I do mine. Just had the beginner Barista course at JetBlack. When I first booked in I thought there wouldn't be much that I would learn in the beginner class. But I was wrong. There were a lot of (little) things that I picked up and since my shots are absolutely consistent and beautiful. I have also started to buy my beans from the CoffeeSnobs page...
Hi Coffee Snobs,
I am now a happy owner of Profitec Pro 700 and the matching ECM S-Automatic 64 grinder too, thanks to the help from Debbie at JetBlack. I am loving my purdy machine! I am still working on nailing the grind and having fun. But it's only been a couple of days now so I will get it pretty soon I am sure.
There was a question earlier in the thread from someone about the access to the water tank at the back, and whether lifting up the cup tray was tricky or not. That was a consideration for me too when I was trying to decide on which machine to get, in my case either Profitec 700 or the Rocket R58. Now that I have my Profitec 700 set up at home, I thought it might help someone who may be in the same situation as I was, to let you know what I found.
I have my machine placed on my pantry bench top next to the sink in there, and we also have cupboard above the machine too. Bench top height is standard 900mm, gap between bench top and upper cabinet is also a standard 600mm. The machine sits there in the corner of two walls and I still have room enough to manually pour water into the water reservoir using my manual drip kettle, pretty easily. I don't even take out the cup tray at all, I just slightly lift the tray upwards so the lip of the tray at the back will be cleared, then slide the tray forward and make room at the back to pour the water in. It's tricky to tell you so I will grab my camera and will show you. I hope the photo linking works.
The whole setup in the pantry
After I slid the cup warming tray forward to expose the water reservoir
My manual pourover kettle can easily reach the water reservoir
I also wasn't expecting it, but found the drip tray plumbing kit included with my machine. It works perfectly because I have placed my machine right next to the sink in the pantry, and although it would be easy enough to empty the drip tray manually it is easier still to have it plumbed so I don't have to lift anything. So that's what I did. Unfortunately husband is still reluctant to drill a hole in the bench top so I am currently using the countertop water softening filter and manually pouring water into the water reservoir at the back of the machine. My drain hose goes into the sink which is on the right hand side of the machine, so I haven't really plumbed it in. When I get an okay from husband to drill a hole thorough the Caesarstone, I will properly get the intake and drain hoses plumbed in and get under counter water softening system and things will look much neater I hope.
The drain box kit is just a black plastic box with separate screws and nuts and washers all included. What didn't come with the machine were the 13mm diameter hose and the clamp thing to secure the hose to the barbed spout sticking out from the drain box. I already had those from my gardening project (drip irrigation) but you can easily get them at Bunnings.
The stainless steel drip tray came with a hole pre-drilled in the centre bottom of the tray, and the hole was plugged with a round metal plug and a rubber washer, that can be unscrewed from underneath. Just around the centre hole, the area is sunken in a bit (deeper) so that the water will naturally fall down through there in to the black plastic drain box underneath. I find that the bottom of drip tray is really nice and flat and there is no low corners so dirty water will nicely exit from the centre hole of the drip tray. I like precision like that.
You will have to attach the black plastic drain box to the frame of the espresso machine (there were already two holes available at the front end of the frame underneath the drip tray to attach the drain box onto. You can position the black box so the spout will face to the right or to the back of the machine depending on where you want the drain to go. Overall, after I figured out what the black box and the screws were for, I got it set up in 10 minutes tops. It was a lovely surprise because there was no mention of the drip box in the manual and I wasn't expecting it to be included in the package. I am very pleased with the outcome. To clear the drip tray and the drip box, I just occasionally pour water with my long spouted kettle and encourage the coffee dregs to go down through the centre hole, and that's all I have to do. If it gets really grungy (technical term) I can easily unscrew the black box and give it a good wash, and I might even replace the hose occasionally too.
I hope this helps someone.
Thanks for the great photos Snak. Obviously I don't know the layout of your kitchen but as an alternative to drilling through the bench top would running some john guest tubing along the underside of the overhead cupboards and down into the machine be a possible solution? I ask this because I was in a similar situation to you living in a house that we were going to sell and didn't want to drill through the bench top and this was my solution.
Pretzal, thanks for the suggestion. I had to look up what john guest tubing was but in my case the sink and drain is right next to the machine, so it will make sense to just drill a hole in the bench top and get the connection all plumbed in under the sink.
My problem is because we just finished building so my husband is reluctant to drill a hole in the pristine bench top. Once he starts using the Pro 700 with the water tank and realises that he has to fill up the water reservoir in the middle of pulling a shot, because of the automatic water level warning cutoff coming on, he will hopefully understand the "need" for direct plumbing. (I may even "accidentally" have the reservoir fairly low when it's his time to make us some drinks.) I am just waiting for him to come around. We aren't planning to sell our house any time soon so we may as well get the best/most use out of it the way that suits us.
I am sure I can convince my husband before the current water softening cartridge expires (i.e. within 6-12 months). We will see how I go.