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Thread: Synesso - any signs of a domestic/prosumer machine?

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    Synesso - any signs of a domestic/prosumer machine?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,

    I'm new to this forum but am keen to hear from anyone who may know whether Synesso has future plans to release a domestic/prosumer machine? I've owned an Isomac La Mondiale and Mazzer Mini for 6-7 years and would like to upgrade some time in the near future. A single group Hydra is about 10K which is is a big jump so it would be nice if Synesso released something in the 4-6K range.

    Any comments would be most welcome.

    Daniel

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    I would be doubtful of them making such a big step. A GS-3 is roughly in your price range and will give you a similar set of features.

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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Hi dickydan and welcome to CS!!

    If you mean do they make a 1 group? Yes they do.

    Up there in price with KvdW Speedster and the new Slayer 1 group.

    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=s...w=1546&bih=863

    Prosumer........ I doubt they would ever bother!! Alex Leva or Ambient Vesuvius or GS3 would be my shortlist in you're price range. No particular order. ;-)
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    Thanks for the recommendations. I am aware of their group 1 Hydra unit, I just didn't want to jump to as much 10K which I understand is what it costs. Was hoping they might introduce an entry level model into their line up.

    Love their functionality and of course, minimalistic design.

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    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dickydan View Post
    Thanks for the recommendations. I am aware of their group 1 Hydra unit, I just didn't want to jump to as much 10K which I understand is what it costs. Was hoping they might introduce an entry level model into their line up.

    Love their functionality and of course, minimalistic design.
    How do you imagine they could knock $4-6K off of what they ask for their commercial 1 Grouper while still being able to put out a machine in keeping with their brand image and hard earned brand equity? Sounds like an unreasonable expectation to me.
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    I'm not in anyway suggesting (or expecting) they should merely knock off 4-6K off the price of their commercial unit - the last thing they would want to do is produce an inferior and potentially commoditised product line. This was merely a question to see whether anyone was aware of the possibility of Synesso producing a quality high-end machine for domestic use that would be under 10K.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinitasse View Post
    How do you imagine they could knock $4-6K off of what they ask for their commercial 1 Grouper while still being able to put out a machine in keeping with their brand image and hard earned brand equity? Sounds like an unreasonable expectation to me.
    Porsche managed to do that very well with the boxster.

    Or sticking with espresso machines, isn't that what La Marzocco did with the GS/3? Granted the price difference between the GS/3 and Linea 1 group is a little less than $4k, but they still managed to develop a cheaper home-suitable machine without betraying their quality standards.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon View Post
    Porsche managed to do that very well with the boxster.
    Not sure I've ever met anyone who expressed a very high opinion of the Boxster...

    I can see it now "Oh, you bought the Synesso Exspresso... You know that's not a real Synesso, don't you?"
    coffee_machinist likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    Not sure I've ever met anyone who expressed a very high opinion of the Boxster...

    I can see it now "Oh, you bought the Synesso Exspresso... You know that's not a real Synesso, don't you?"
    I've never heard anybody say a GS/3 isn't a real La Marzocco?

    And arguably a regular boxster is closer to the base 911 carrera than the carrera is to either the GT3 or Turbo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    Not sure I've ever met anyone who expressed a very high opinion of the Boxster..."
    You must be mixing with the Ferrari owing crowd !
    Conclusion from Drive magazine review..
    ..It's difficult to think of a more engaging all-round sports car than the Boxster - and nothing touches it for the money.
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    Evo magazine had a similar blurb.

    Of course if you're someone who's never actually driven a boxster and 911, then you really can't comment...

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    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blend52 View Post
    You must be mixing with the Ferrari owing crowd !
    Conclusion from Drive magazine review..
    The Cayman... which happens to be the coupe version of the Boxster... remains the only car ever given 10 out of 10 by Top Gear AU magazine. But... having said that... I'll still stick to my guns vis-a-vis a cut price prosumer Slayer. Just because you want one, doesn't mean it is necessarily reasonable to expect them them to dumb things down to suit your budget. I'm pretty sure the people at Slayer do not happen to think the world revolves around you.

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    Wow, an attempt at a bit of humour at the expense of the "poor man's Porsche" and it gets all serious. Some kind of inferiority complex perhaps?

    Edit: Strangely enough, I walked past a new one on my way home tonight (in a spot usually featuring a Lambo or Ferrari. Looks a lot less like an MX-5 these days.
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    I have no expectations, it was a simple question for the forum. Next time I'll ensure I caveat every aspect to a question I ask before I ask it otherwise it seems like it will result in some thinking that the world revolves around me. Precious-much...
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    Another cordial first impression thread...

    Out of interest, is anyone able to explain where the fat's been trimmed in the GS/3 as opposed to a commercial single-group? Is it just a matter of smaller back-to-back capacity, or what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dickydan View Post
    I have no expectations, it was a simple question for the forum. Next time I'll ensure I caveat every aspect to a question I ask before I ask it otherwise it seems like it will result in some thinking that the world revolves around me. Precious-much...
    Yes, there are some Grumpy Old Men around but we're not all like that...

    Mal.
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    TC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragunov21 View Post
    Another cordial first impression thread...

    Out of interest, is anyone able to explain where the fat's been trimmed in the GS/3 as opposed to a commercial single-group? Is it just a matter of smaller back-to-back capacity, or what?
    Welcome dicky,

    I think your question was more than valid....

    Could they do it if they wanted and at a reasonable price? No doubt. There is nothing in particular which distinguishes a Synesso from similar LM machines. Whether Synesso are interested in the domestic market is another issue completely.

    As far as the GS/3 is concerned, I think some fat may have been trimmed in terms of finish and definitely in the materials used for the chassis which requires care lest you bend the drip tray rails, but other than that, it's an awesome machine.

    Competition will come from the Vesuvius which on features and performance has lifted the bar substantially beyond GS/3 performance levels- but not without a huge learning curve. This will place pressure on companies such as LM to look at features such as pressure profiling.

    There's plenty of space in the $5-12k bracket for some incredible new gear and a whole heap of companies are going to need to play catch up on Ambient&spresso. I think the domestic machine market is at the beginning of a huge evolution in the next few years....
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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Hi dicky,

    Don't let the "to 'n fro" bother you too much.... it's got more to do with the "to 'n froers" than it has with your question!

    Below is some comparative specs, differences..... weight (as per Chris' comments above in post #17), brew boiler, power consumption ( boiler elements ).


    PERFORMANCE AT HOME - TECHNOLOGY & DESIGN
    "GS" for its saturated brew group (gruppo saturo), the GS/3 is ideal for those who wish to extend excellence to
    include a supreme cup of coffee – whether in small restaurants, boutique hotels or at home in the kitchen, a
    must for the perfectionist and espresso coffee enthusiasts.

    TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

    1 GROUP

    HEIGHT (CM/IN) 35,5/14
    WIDTH (CM/IN) 40/16
    DEPTH (CM/IN) 53/21
    WEIGHT (KG/LBS) 33/73
    VOLTAGE (VAC) 110V/220V
    STANDARD WATTS (W) 2100(220V)
    1600 (110V)
    COFFEE BOILER (L) 1,5
    STEAM BOILER (L) 3,5

    LINEA CLASSIC - HEAVY DUTY WORKHORSE
    A work of art that is linear in design and dressed in polished stainless steel, the Linea Classic is perfectly
    executed to blend into any setting, a union of simplicity and elegance, a La Marzocco classic, an industry icon.

    TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS

    1 GROUP


    HEIGHT (CM/IN) 45,5/18
    WIDTH (CM/IN) 49/20
    DEPTH (CM/IN) 56/22
    WEIGHT (KG/LBS) 41/90
    VOLTAGE (VAC) 200 SINGLE/3 PHASE
    220 SINGLE/3 PHASE
    200 SINGLE/3 PHASE
    220 SINGLE/3 PHASE
    380 3 PHASE
    STANDARD WATTS (W) 2500

    COFFEE BOILER (L) 1,8
    STEAM BOILER (L) 3,5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    As far as the GS/3 is concerned, I think some fat may have been trimmed in terms of finish and definitely in the materials used for the chassis which requires care lest you bend the drip tray rails, but other than that, it's an awesome machine. Competition will come from the Vesuvius which on features and performance has lifted the bar substantially beyond GS/3 performance levels- but not without a huge learning curve. This will place pressure on companies such as LM to look at features such as pressure profiling.

    There's plenty of space in the $5-12k bracket for some incredible new gear and a whole heap of companies are going to need to play catch up on Ambient&spresso. I think the domestic machine market is at the beginning of a huge evolution in the next few years....
    The only thing I don't agree with here is the huge learning curve. I personally don't think the Vesuvius is that difficult to use and you can copy other peoples profiles until you feel confident to make your own. There is a learning curve, sure, but it's fun and it's not really huge.

    Like you, I do believe though that in addition to pressure profiling, the other convenience/functional features will make the competition sit up and take notice. As you say it will take a few years, but it will eventually happen. At the moment I am not sure the penny has fully dropped with them on some of the stuff; like the proper prosumer relevant ECO mode and some of the tricks you can use ECO mode for, the fact that the HX circuit is always mechanically separated from the brew boiler, unless a shot is being pulled, even when HX is on, the 2 segment individual daily on off timers. Lastly, the easy of working on the machine for maintenance etc..

  20. #20
    JKM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    This will place pressure on companies such as LM to look at features such as pressure profiling.
    The LM Strada EP came out 2 years ago but I assume you are only referring to the domestic market?

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    JKM
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec View Post
    the fact that the HX circuit is always mechanically separated from the brew boiler, unless a shot is being pulled, even when HX is on, the 2 segment individual daily on off timers.
    Hi Dave,

    Could you please explain a little more regarding the HX circuit, what it is, what it does, etc… This machine sounds interesting.

    Cheers

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    TC
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    Quote Originally Posted by davec View Post
    The only thing I don't agree with here is the huge learning curve. I personally don't think the Vesuvius is that difficult to use and you can copy other peoples profiles until you feel confident to make your own. There is a learning curve, sure, but it's fun and it's not really huge.
    I think it's a brilliant machine. To get the best out of it, you need to be very consistent with dose. This is something that new players can find challenging. If you say run a "lever" style profile with a window of time at 11 bar, you have to be right for that pressure. If you're not, you get little/nothing.

    Some beginners will simply let a shot run and run until a result (albeit bad) is in the cup. It's less likely that you would get a result in this scenario with the vesuvius.

    My opinion? For shots it is at least on a level footing with the Strada EP- i.e incredible. On functionality, it blows every espresso machine ever produced comprehensively out of the water. The fact that it can be purchased with a lower spend than a LM GS/3 makes for an absolute bargain.

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    Talk_Coffee,

    Do they have a 1 group system?

    There's a lot of espresso lovers and geeks like us which wants the "synesso quality" in our house but cant necessarily supply enough countertop estate for the machine........... and we would really like to see a 1 group synesso.....

    If theres a lm linea... there's supposed to be a Gs/3

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLudicrousBean View Post

    Do they have a 1 group system?

    There's a lot of espresso geeks like us which wants the "synesso quality" in our house .... and we would really like to see a 1 group synesso.....

    If theres a lm linea... there's supposed to be a Gs/3
    They? Being men in white coats I presume?

    "espresso geeks like us...in our house".... you mean there's more than one of you, Ray? Heeeelp!!

    Geeks (the good guys) would know that...

    1) The GS3 is a real machine, not a rumour. ( I've actually seen one! ) ;-)

    2) Synesso have had a 1 group out for a while now......( I've seen one of those too )

    The above might not be any better than a Pavoni tho', Ray, so hang on to it :-D ...... gee, rumours about rumours and all!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLudicrousBean View Post
    There's a lot of espresso lovers and geeks like us which wants the "synesso quality" in our house but cant necessarily supply enough countertop estate for the machine........... and we would really like to see a 1 group synesso.....

    If theres a lm linea... there's supposed to be a Gs/3
    If you spent a small fraction of the time researching as you do trolling you would know that both machines already exist and have for some time.


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    Quote Originally Posted by JKM View Post
    Hi Dave,

    Could you please explain a little more regarding the HX circuit, what it is, what it does, etc… This machine sounds interesting.

    Cheers
    On the Vesuvius brew water can be preheated by an HX in the steam boiler when the steam boiler is on, but unlike any other machine, you can also opt to not preheat the brew water when the steam boiler is on e.g. if you run low brew temps on a hot day and very high steam boiler temps. At all times except when pulling a shot with preheat on, the brew and steam boiler HX preheat plumbing are mechanically separated, so no thermal transfer can exist between brew and steam boiler...again unlike any other machine.

    There is also a comprehensive ECO mode (that's actually useful) going well beyond anything on the market at the moment and allows some quite useful tricks....all detailed in the recently updated version 9 of the user guide on the owners forum. I also assume Chris has a copy or link on his site (or should have)...hint.

    At the money for what it does, it really is a bargain....unless of course you really need/want a name like LM, Speedster, Slayer and nothing else will do...which is fine, that is the way the world works. If it didn't, we would all drive the same car.



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