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Thread: Commercial espresso machine for home use

  1. #1
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    Commercial espresso machine for home use

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Dear all,
    I'm wondering to get help from you guys to see if buying a commercial machine for my home use would be a crazy idea?
    My target model is: Dalla Corte Evo2
    Thanks

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    FWIW I would spend just over half the dollars and buy a 220/240V LM GS3. Far better control over "minor things" like preinfusion and so much easier to live with domestically.

    TampIt

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    [QUOTE=TampIt;549280]FWIW I would spend just over half the dollars and buy a 220/240V LM GS3. Far better control over "minor things" like preinfusion and so much easier to live with domestically.

    TampIt[/QUOTE
    Thanks for your advice. But do u think that the GS3 is even better than the Dalla corte Mini?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Do you have really big coffee drinking family who live with you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
    Do you have really big coffee drinking family who live with you?
    In fact my concern is to get the better quality at home but we prepare and average of 8 coffees a day

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    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hossa12 View Post
    In fact my concern is to get the better quality at home but we prepare and average of 8 coffees a day
    So, ignoring the specifics of your current favoured machine, why would you want to spend a significant proportion of your budget on obtaining a machine that can
    churn out coffee-after-coffee for long periods of time? You'll get a better result if you follow TampIt's suggestion above, or several other similar strategies I'd think, if quality of coffee is what you are focussed on.

    To answer your original question...no, you're not being crazy, but it is difficult to understand why your first thought is to buy a machine designed to work in cafes.

    Cheers
    BOSW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hossa12 View Post
    I'm wondering to get help from you guys to see if buying a commercial machine for my home use would be a crazy idea?
    My target model is: Dalla Corte Evo2Thanks
    its not crazy,but why that machine?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hossa12 View Post
    In fact my concern is to get the better quality at home but we prepare and average of 8 coffees a day
    for 8 coffees a day, I would take something like that: Astoria Perla AL 1 or 2

  8. #8
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    It's clear that a 4 group will be required so that those 8 coffees can be dispatched quick smart!

    Hossa- to be honest, I seriously doubt that the overwhelming majority of Aussies could distinguish an expertly prepared coffee from a well-configured $2k domestic HX machine when lined up next to that produced by a $10+ 2 group DC. Beans and technique are by far the most important considerations.

    Cheers

    Chris
    Last edited by TC; 8th January 2015 at 07:45 AM. Reason: tpyo ;-)
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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    There are more considerations to buying the DC .... do you have a 25 amp ( per specs) dedicated circuit into your kitchen?

    Are you aware that you could easily and often exceed your 40 amp max domestic load. (Mal? Any thoughts?)

    You will also have to regularly purge your steam boiler to prevent the staling of old water by constant heating

    and reheating.

    You wish to serve good coffee, nothing wrong with that. Chris has said how, above, in a nutshell.

    You haven't mentioned grinder yet either; making good coffee is much more than pressing a button on a coffee machine! :-)

    If you have up to 12-15k in your pocket for a machine plus grinder then, as Tampit has mentioned, a GS3 or at

    10k+.... a Speedster.
    Last edited by chokkidog; 8th January 2015 at 10:37 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hossa12 View Post
    Dear all,
    I'm wondering to get help from you guys to see if buying a commercial machine for my home use would be a crazy idea?
    My target model is: Dalla Corte Evo2
    Thanks
    The coffee forum politically correct reply to this is to all jump in and pat you on the back and say what a wonderful / fantastic / magnificent idea this all is (sending you off on a wild goose chase wasting time, money resources and effort etc).

    I favour the honest if blunt approach and that will be to answer your question with the truth. Yes, I am afraid that is a crazy idea. Thereby, hopefully I can stop you from wasting time, money, resources and effort on something that is totally unsuited for your stated use.

    Check the TalkCoffee reply above. It's on the money. "...to be honest, I seriously doubt that the overwhelming majority of Aussies could distinguish an expertly prepared coffee from a well-configured $2k domestic HX machine when lined up next to that produced by a $10+ 2 group DC. Beans and technique are by far the most important considerations...."

    Many years experience tells me that people buy certain equipment because they think (usually through their "research") it will deliver the best (perhaps even significantly / noticably better) coffee all the time. This is not so, and when they eventually bring it in for service, we find they have never adjusted the grinder away from the original setting, they have never adjusted the PID (if it has one) away from the original setting etc., and generally dont understand the principles of good espresso making....and as stated initally, they thought (were led to believe) just having the "right" brand/type equipment would take care of it all for them.

    Afraid that is not so, and you dont have to spend squillions to get a great cuppa.

    Are you (we / anyone) drinking the coffee, or the image that we think the equipment appears to portray especially if we spend the requisite amount of money ?

    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by TOK; 8th January 2015 at 10:23 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TOK View Post
    The coffee forum politically correct reply to this is to all jump in and pat you on the back and say what a wonderful / fantastic / magnificent idea this all is (sending you off on a wild goose chase wasting time, money resources and effort etc).

    I favour the honest if blunt approach and that will be to answer your question with the truth. Yes, I am afraid that is a crazy idea. Thereby, hopefully I can stop you from wasting time, money, resources and effort on something that is totally unsuited for your stated use.

    Check the TalkCoffee reply above. It's on the money. "...to be honest, I seriously doubt that the overwhelming majority of Aussies could distinguish an expertly prepared coffee from a well-configured $2k domestic HX machine when lined up next to that produced by a $10+ 2 group DC. Beans and technique are by far the most important considerations...."

    Many years experience tells me that people buy certain equipment because they think (usually through their "research") it will deliver the best (perhaps even significantly / noticably better) coffee all the time. This is not so, and when they eventually bring it in for service, we find they have never adjusted the grinder away from the original setting, they have never adjusted the PID (if it has one) away from the original setting etc., and generally dont understand the principles of good espresso making....and as stated initally, they thought (were led to believe) just having the "right" brand/type equipment would take care of it all for them.

    Afraid that is not so, and you dont have to spend squillions to get a great cuppa.

    Are you (we / anyone) drinking the coffee, or the image that we think the equipment appears to portray especially if we spend the requisite amount of money ?

    Hope that helps.
    Hi Guys, i really appreciate your effort to help to figure out what could be the better alternative. Mu budget is 12-13k, so what would better a GS3?or Speedster?
    Thanks again

  12. #12
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hossa12 View Post
    Mu budget is 12-13k, so what would better a GS3?or Speedster?
    Odd question..... as the straight answer is; neither is 'better' than the other. They are different but similar........

    the original Speedsters were built on the GS3 innards/group/engineering and retain that essential design. ( Twin boiler, saturated group )


    It's a question only you can answer.


    And 'better' is not the right word; you should go and look at/try a range of

    machines (as there aren't many single groups not in your budget) and then purchase the one you 'prefer'.

    You have a generous budget so have a good look around but at the end of the day, for me, I'd rather wear a badge of honour that

    said more about my coffee than my machine.
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    Senior Member Lukemc's Avatar
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    if i had your budget id set some time aside to go and see chris and check out one of these too........Maybe paired with a kony e

    Vesuvius- by Ambient Espresso | Talk Coffee

    Quote Originally Posted by Hossa12 View Post
    Hi Guys, i really appreciate your effort to help to figure out what could be the better alternative. Mu budget is 12-13k, so what would better a GS3?or Speedster?
    Thanks again

  14. #14
    Senior Member deegee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hossa12 View Post
    Hi Guys, i really appreciate your effort to help to figure out what could be the better alternative. Mu budget is 12-13k, so what would better a GS3?or Speedster?
    Thanks again
    My word, you just keep raising the bar !!

    From a Nuove Simonelli Deluxe ?? to a GS3 or a Vesuvius, then onward & upward to a Dalla Corte Evo2 or a Speedster - WOW.

    Just as well I'm a minimalist at heart, or I'd be seriously jealous.
    Last edited by deegee; 8th January 2015 at 11:41 AM. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by deegee View Post
    My word, you just keep raising the bar !!

    From a Nuove Simonelli Deluxe ?? to a GS3 or a Vesuvius, then onward & upward to a Dalla Corte Evo2 or a Speedster - WOW.
    I'd argue that a DC is definitely not upward from a Vesuvius. The other two- at best sideways and then only due to design interest.
    Last edited by TC; 8th January 2015 at 01:28 PM. Reason: tpyo
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    Senior Member deegee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    I'd argue that a DC in definitely not upward from a Vesuvius. The other two- as best sideways and then only due to design interest.
    Just to clarify, I was referring to the upward price spiral - not the relative quality of the equipment.

    Having not used any of them, or even seen them in the metal, I would never consider doing that !!

  17. #17
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Agree Chris, absolutely.

    Exactly why the 'better' thing is mostly irrelevant. It comes down to mainly preference.

    I'm not sure that OP, given their budget, has made themselves aware of just what is in the market place.

    Also not sure that there is a starting point of what they need, a position from which to build some perspective as to what they want.

    Two different things....

    And to be blunt, when some people ask the CS community 'what should I buy' it's saying a little too much ........
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    Hi Hossa,

    You certainly have a lot of money to burn. :P However, a lot of money and better machine definitely do not guarantee better coffee quality. Making good coffee consistently is an involved process and it requires understanding of the coffee-making process & technique learning. Your current machine/grinder combo (NS & K30) will already allow you to make the best coffee possible. Limitation is just on the technique and coffee beans used. You certainly won't gain much from buying another machine unless you feel obligated to spend the 10k, which I am happy to help you do so. ;P

    If you feel your shots are not as good as it can be, your best bet is probably to hire a personal barista trainer or attend some courses. What beans are you using by the way?

    But back to your question, it's not crazy, but rather irrational to have a commercial machine(that you proposed) at home. It does nothing to improve your coffee and wasteful (electric & water & counter space)

  19. #19
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    Sorry, but after reading further I'm not so sure this is an entirely legit thread.

    Throwing a sack of money at a coffee machine is not going to get anyone better coffee.

    Speedster - sure - if your thing is ultimate design engineering. A piece of espresso machine art.

    GS3 - sure - another ultimate, but in this case in minimalist design engineering.

    Do they make better coffee than other more realistically priced machines? Only in the minds of people who think they do OR, for people that have become so anal about coffee making that they may as well get an einstein perm, and dress in a white lab coat to make coffee.

    Throwing money at equipment, does not a good cup of coffee make.

    After reading all the above, the question is.....
    Are you looking for
    a) the most upmarket Bling or Bragging Rights or
    b) the ultimate in design engineering or
    c) a great cup of coffee.

    If the answer is a), you should add to your list, the machine that elektra displayed at the last HOST exhibition in Milano (a privately commissioned design excercise).

    Does it look like bling? Depends on individual taste.
    Does it make great coffee? Irrelevant.

    If you like the machines you have already mentioned and your budget is legit, by all means buy one. Just dont forget you are in control of the coffee not the designed image of the machine or dollars spent. If you spend that much in the equipment and it is said to offer something more, then you should be spending some more dollars in training to make sure you get out of it what it is said to be able to offer....otherwise from a purely "cup of coffee" oriented perspective, the dollars spent on the equipment have been wasted and I have seen plenty of that.


    Hope that helps.
    Last edited by TOK; 8th January 2015 at 03:14 PM.
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  20. #20
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    I would find it hard to live without my 2 group commercial at home. They are wonderful to have around...mine is on 24/7. They come into their own at parties for sure...endless steam from a 11litre or so boiler is hard to beat. Mine costs about $1 a day to run but you save money off that not having to boil the kettle for tea, soups etc. My FAEMA is VERY heat stable and produces a great brew. Top is great for cup warming but also plate warming. The texturing is as you would expect from that much steam.

    There was a post above about purging the boiler water....i have never seen a need as the hot water wand is used all the time at my place.

    So yes i high end domestic machine is all that is required for excellent coffee (like for like with great beans, grinder and good technique) but no you are not mad wanting a commercial if you want to spend the dough. Good brand commercial machines are built to last (just look under the hood) and get the right brand and its crazy how easy it is to get parts for a 20 year old machine at very cheap prices.

    As for power i ran my FAEMA on a cheat stick on a home circuit GPO and no probs...I dont recommend that of course and then got a 15 amp run put in. There are plenty of machines that run on 15 amp circuits.

    Cheers

  21. #21
    Senior Member Bosco_Lever's Avatar
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    Why not consider this commercial machine:

    https://www.coffeeroasters.com.au/sh...illipo-1-group

    Simple to use. Simple to maintain.
    Hand made in Italy, and will last for years.
    Bugger all electrical parts to fail, but best of all, over 50 yrs of manufacturing experience.
    It makes damn fine espresso.

    Fantastic bragging rights, and it it a real show stopper in the home.

    Bosco can custom make whatever panels you desire.

    10Amp plug.

    No brainer.

  22. #22
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    But have you tasted the water straight from the boiler? Without coffee?

    If it's refreshing quite quickly, it's probably alright.

    I have tasted a few old machines (literally!) ........ bit of an eye opener for their owners, especially if they draw water off to make tea for paying clients.

    They then take my original advice of using an electric jug for tea.

    Out of interest, ozcott, ....how quickly do you think you're turning over the 11 litres as steam?
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  23. #23
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Yes mate and have even drawn it from the hot tap (so straight from boiler) let it cool and tasted...no probs. Dont know the answer to the steam question. Its like anything though better to use them than not...like my boat. Not using it often enough is worse than using it all the time maintenance wise!

    Cheers

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    [QUOTE=Hossa12;549284]
    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    FWIW I would spend just over half the dollars and buy a 220/240V LM GS3. Far better control over "minor things" like preinfusion and so much easier to live with domestically.

    TampIt[/QUOTE
    Thanks for your advice. But do u think that the GS3 is even better than the Dalla corte Mini?
    Hi Hossa12

    Given a decent grinder* PLUS either "a lot of experience" or "some seriously good training" it is actually very difficult to get a bad shot out of most quality machines. Given your budget, I would suggest spending at least $3000 on each grinder (FYI, I use one for dark roasts or decaf, one for medium SO's) and the rest on the actual espresso machine. You are the only person who can place the actual number of grinders required. The grinder is (IMO) much more important than the machine, as it is earlier in the coffee chain. Nothing can make a decent espresso out of a poor roast or poor grinder. On the other hand, a good roast & grinder plus a bit of savvy can give an outstanding shot in most "prosumer" gear - or even some fairly "low end" domestic gear for that matter.

    Why I suggested the GS3 is the minimal impact on domestic living issues, fairly low maintenance plus its ability to make a coffee however you can envisage it. A truly precision tool for the aficionado who likes to tinker. Some much more expensive machines have more "bling" or raw throughput, however very few can beat its abilities, flexibility or performance for your 8 coffees a day. Given such low workload, the GS3 is still overkill, and yes, at that level it can do things the DC cannot (unless they have added them in the last two years or so without me being aware of it). As stated in another post, the Speedster (i.e. one of the most famous machines out there: think Ferrari or Bugatti cars) is basically a souped up GS3, although to call a GS3 "minimalist" is highly debatable if not outright contentious. A better description is probably "a clean design with incredible flexibility and power in a compact package". Oh, and emptying the water out before moving it is highly recommended - even empty you would swear it is made of lead & concrete.

    As a previous GS3 owner (divorce casualty) I am still amazed that most other "high end machines" are not offering all the same features (yet). Only the very best manual lever machines offer more flexibility - however with a far longer & steeper learning curve for the inexperienced. Check up a few reviews and/or owners feedback on the Swiss "Olympia Cremina", the Italian "La Pavoni manual levers" or any of the "Electra manual levers" if you wish to explore that option (even if just to exclude it in your mind). A much harder to live with precision tool... especially at first!

    As far as living with commercial machines at home: I also have a 2 group commercial La Pavoni (think small cafe "Mack truck" machine, not a lever). The sheer size of it and the noise relegates it outside, it needs a 15 amp power connection AND it must be plumbed in to both a water supply and a drain. If I can use it for the ravening hordes at a party it will provide coffee for 50+ without blinking - pity most of those occasions are held somewhere else (we alternate venues, like most families), and it takes two strong people to move it... then the destination has to have a 15amp powerpoint + plumbing... The La Pav takes around 30 minutes to warm up, and gives my 3Kw solar PVs a trashing in terms of power consumption. For my average day of 2 to 4 coffees at home, the La Pav is literally not worth the effort compared to my much more "domestic friendly machine" that makes identical quality coffee - 5 minute warm up, minimal power consumption, is quieter, just uses a 3 litre water tank (I use filtered rainwater, so plumbing the La Pav in was a real pain) and a standard powerpoint. It also fits in the (very small) kitchen.

    The other piece of advice I would offer: How much effort are you willing to put in to learn how to get the best out of your chosen gear? Unless it is a long term passion, there are much simpler & cheaper answers which will be far less frustrating in the short to medium term.

    * Personally I use two Mahlkonig Vario gen2's, approx $700 each, a larger budget would probably look at Mahlkonig EK43(s) at around $3500 each or similar competitor offerings (if there are any). Hard to go past the official world barista grinders... Mind you, the EK43 is not 5 times better than the Vario, just a lot faster, much higher throughput & with a few more tricks up its sleeve. Your budget, your call...

    Hope this helps


    TampIt

  25. #25
    Senior Member Bosco_Lever's Avatar
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    "Only the very best manual lever machines offer more flexibility - however with a far longer & steeper learning curve for the inexperienced. Check up a few reviews and/or owners feedback on the Swiss "Olympia Cremina", the Italian "La Pavoni manual levers" or any of the "Electra manual levers" if you wish to explore that option (even if just to exclude it in your mind). A much harder to live with precision tool... especially at first."


    Your argument here is seriously flawed.
    OP is considering a commercial machine. A GS3 is being discussed. You then bring in toys into the equation. The "levers" you mentioned are babies, and completely unsuitable for what the OP has described.
    It would be far better to mention true levers that are much easier to master, and built to the standards the OP is seeking, then the models you have mentioned. Your comment about the best manual lever is also debatable.

    If the OP wants a "LEVER" then the manufacturers to consider are:

    Bosco
    Izzo
    Astoria
    possible others

    The next level down can probably be described as prosumer:

    Strega
    Londinium 1
    Quick Mill
    etc

    Levers are not harder to master than a pump driven machine, on the contrary they are very easy to use, but the operator MUST understand the principles of espresso making.

    As to grinders, all the talk about which one is better than the other is basically a load of egotistical nonsense. If you pay a $1000 or more for a grinder, you will get a great unit. The one to choose is the one that you like to use, not the one that internet hooha dictates. You can make crap coffee with a $200 grinder and with a $5000 grinder if your espresso making technique is not up to par.

    Overall, buy something that you enjoy using, not something that the internet dictates you must have.

    Anyone buying an EK43 for home use must have some serious psychological problems. It is monstrous in size, and I cannot imagine how it can simplify the joy of espresso making.
    If someone is contemplating such a move, then they should seek professional help for their OCD.

  26. #26
    Senior Member deegee's Avatar
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    Quote from Post #19 - "Sorry, but after reading further I'm not so sure this is an entirely legit thread."

    Neither am I. This guy has started several similar threads here and at CG's over a period of several years.

    One of them reads a lot like this one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosco_Lever View Post
    "Only the very best manual lever machines offer more flexibility - however with a far longer & steeper learning curve for the inexperienced. Check up a few reviews and/or owners feedback on the Swiss "Olympia Cremina", the Italian "La Pavoni manual levers" or any of the "Electra manual levers" if you wish to explore that option (even if just to exclude it in your mind). A much harder to live with precision tool... especially at first."


    Your argument here is seriously flawed.
    OP is considering a commercial machine. A GS3 is being discussed. You then bring in toys into the equation. The "levers" you mentioned are babies, and completely unsuitable for what the OP has described.
    It would be far better to mention true levers that are much easier to master, and built to the standards the OP is seeking, then the models you have mentioned. Your comment about the best manual lever is also debatable.

    If the OP wants a "LEVER" then the manufacturers to consider are:

    Bosco
    Izzo
    Astoria
    possible others

    The next level down can probably be described as prosumer:

    Strega
    Londinium 1
    Quick Mill
    etc

    Levers are not harder to master than a pump driven machine, on the contrary they are very easy to use, but the operator MUST understand the principles of espresso making.

    As to grinders, all the talk about which one is better than the other is basically a load of egotistical nonsense. If you pay a $1000 or more for a grinder, you will get a great unit. The one to choose is the one that you like to use, not the one that internet hooha dictates. You can make crap coffee with a $200 grinder and with a $5000 grinder if your espresso making technique is not up to par.

    Overall, buy something that you enjoy using, not something that the internet dictates you must have.

    Anyone buying an EK43 for home use must have some serious psychological problems. It is monstrous in size, and I cannot imagine how it can simplify the joy of espresso making.
    If someone is contemplating such a move, then they should seek professional help for their OCD.
    Hi Bosco_Lever

    Levers: I disagree - having lived with an Electra lever for well over 20 years, no way is it a toy. It took me nearly a year to get consistently equal coffees out of the 240V GS3. As for the Olympia Cemina - a few months with a friend's one convinced me it is the best manual lever I have ever used by a big margin - and that includes most of the ones you listed plus a few others. Easy to use - only the "baby people by doing everything including loading the spring types" are easy to use, however they are not as capable as the fully manual levers I prefer. As usual, YMMV and that is fine.

    Grinders: depends what you are trying to achieve. Yes, you can make crap coffee with any gear if you are clueless. Recently I mentioned in another CS post that a particularly vile coffee came out of a "poseur driven" Strada (cannot remember if I stated that the roast was excellent and the grinder was a fairly newish Major). I also stated that given a good grinder (whatever that means) it is possible to make a decent cup in most espresso machines. If I had a large enough kitchen and was making a lot more coffees than I currently do, I would certainly consider replacing my Vario gen2s (easiest to live with domestic grinder plus a full blown Swiss commercial grade mechanism I know of) with an EK43 or two - simply because I know of no better grinder "this week". Just as I use a naked p/f, VST ridgeless baskets and 316 Pullman tampers, because I know of no better combination. Once again, YMMV and that is fine.

    I should add that over the years I have used and hated almost every commercial grinder out there - and even owned far too many of them. I was taught "all grinders suck, some less than others" and it is only recently that is (finally) beginning to change.

    TampIt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosco_Lever View Post
    It would be far better to mention true levers that are much easier to master, and built to the standards the OP is seeking, then the models you have mentioned. Your comment about the best manual lever is also debatable.

    If the OP wants a "LEVER" then the manufacturers to consider are:

    Bosco
    Izzo
    Astoria
    possible others

    The next level down can probably be described as prosumer.....

    ....Levers are not harder to master than a pump driven machine, on the contrary they are very easy to use, but the operator MUST understand the principles of espresso making.

    As to grinders, all the talk about which one is better than the other is basically a load of egotistical nonsense. If you pay a $1000 or more for a grinder, you will get a great unit. The one to choose is the one that you like to use, not the one that internet hooha dictates. You can make crap coffee with a $200 grinder and with a $5000 grinder if your espresso making technique is not up to par.

    Overall, buy something that you enjoy using, not something that the internet dictates you must have.....
    I'm with you there Bosco.

    My first experience of a "true lever" (i.e the class with San Marco or CMA group) was the Izzo Pompeii 1 group. Binned the first shot as I overdosed. Thereafter, consistent nirvana. They are in fact easier to master than pump driven machines and other than basic exterior anatomy (the presence of some sort of lever), they have little in common with the cheaper, pretty little domestic lever machines. The Pompeii makes me look good at what I do.

    Our Alex Leva ticks the build quality and bang for buck boxes on a smaller than commercial footprint. It can also be run from a flojet pump like all true lever machines. It is in fact a 1 group Izzo commercial on a more domestic sized chassis. The Bosco? Also terrific.

    EK43 at home. Yep- you'd in fact need 5- 1 for decaf, 2 for different blends and a further 2 for origin. In a nutshell, a large commercial bag grinder in a home is ridiculous and borderline unsuitable for purpose.
    Last edited by TC; 11th January 2015 at 07:39 AM. Reason: more info

  29. #29
    Senior Member Bosco_Lever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    Hi Bosco_Lever

    Levers: I disagree - having lived with an Electra lever for well over 20 years, no way is it a toy. It took me nearly a year to get consistently equal coffees out of the 240V GS3. As for the Olympia Cemina - a few months with a friend's one convinced me it is the best manual lever I have ever used by a big margin - and that includes most of the ones you listed plus a few others. Easy to use - only the "baby people by doing everything including loading the spring types" are easy to use, however they are not as capable as the fully manual levers I prefer. As usual, YMMV and that is fine.

    Grinders: depends what you are trying to achieve. Yes, you can make crap coffee with any gear if you are clueless. Recently I mentioned in another CS post that a particularly vile coffee came out of a "poseur driven" Strada (cannot remember if I stated that the roast was excellent and the grinder was a fairly newish Major). I also stated that given a good grinder (whatever that means) it is possible to make a decent cup in most espresso machines. If I had a large enough kitchen and was making a lot more coffees than I currently do, I would certainly consider replacing my Vario gen2s (easiest to live with domestic grinder plus a full blown Swiss commercial grade mechanism I know of) with an EK43 or two - simply because I know of no better grinder "this week". Just as I use a naked p/f, VST ridgeless baskets and 316 Pullman tampers, because I know of no better combination. Once again, YMMV and that is fine.

    I should add that over the years I have used and hated almost every commercial grinder out there - and even owned far too many of them. I was taught "all grinders suck, some less than others" and it is only recently that is (finally) beginning to change.

    TampIt
    The topic (valid or not) is about using a commercial machine or high end prosumer unit for home use to deliver excellent coffee. (Average 8 a day). The levers you mention are TOYS designed for a couple of espressos at a time. Anyone without OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) can easily see that that these small levers, though capable are not in the league of the Bosco, Astoria, Izzo, etc. Add the requirement for steaming milk for 8 coffees (90% of all coffees are milk based) and people will start recommending a fitting for that special white jacket. If the Olympia Cremina is the best you have used, then either your experience is limited or your definition of best is skewed. There are very few people in Australia with extensive hands on experience of a Bosco and I doubt you are one of them. There are quite a few with an Izzo (and other small levers), and their recommendation would not be any of the small levers you praise. The machines I mentioned are fit for purpose and used extensively in Italy. I do not see any of your preferred machines being used in a commercial coffee application.

    If you really wanted a lever that produces excellent but different espresso to the main levers, then the recommendation would be a Caravel. Not better, not worse, just different.

    As to use of acronyms, be aware they are easily misinterpreted. I prefer proper English as YMMV can easily stand for:
    -You must masturbate voraciously
    -Your majestic member vibrates
    -You must meet vultures
    -Your mother moves violently
    etc etc

    As to the grinders, what you may perceive as the best, may not necessarily fulfill the requirements of others. It is simply your opinion as to what your palate interprets as the best for the type of coffee that you like. The constant need to extoll the pedigree of a Vario is indicative of compulsive behaviour.
    As to having an EK43 in the kitchen, my previous medical advice stands.
    Dimal, Jonty, chokkidog and 3 others like this.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    Bosco... absolutely love your work... cheeky, irreverent... yet always amusing :-)

  31. #31
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vinitasse View Post
    Bosco... absolutely love your work... cheeky, irreverent... yet always amusing :-)
    Indeed...

    Mal.

  32. #32
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    I giggled a lot

  33. #33
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Just looked at pics of the ek43...you would hope it's mother at least loved it.

    Cheers

  34. #34
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
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    The EK43 is a deli grinder with 98mm plates meant for bulk grinding into take-away bags for retail sale. It was never designed to be used in the home, or in a cafe, but there are those who have been convinced (most likely due to celebrity endorsement) that it is the be-all and end-all of espresso grinders. I say POPPY COCK! I also have a very large, huge plated bag grinder at hand but am honest enough with myself to admit that the commercial espresso grinder I choose to use at home is a far better fit for purpose.
    Dimal, ozscott and TC like this.

  35. #35
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    with the kind of cash the OP was mentioning you could pick up a completely restored FAEMA president and have a working piece of italian industrial sculpture on your bench top.



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