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Thread: Profitec pro 700 purchase experience and first impressions

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    Red face Profitec pro 700 purchase experience and first impressions

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi Coffeesnobs, I thought I'd follow up on my previous post by giving some info about my purchasing experience and thoughts about my chosen machine.

    What I had (purchased new 2009):


    What I bought (new):


    I'd been leaning towards a Rocket R58 and was looking at the different options (new vs 2nd hand), after posting here for advice I was recommend the Quamar grinder and Profitec machine straight away, I did extensive research and talked with other machine sellers but my research always came back that the Profitec would beat out most other machines based on specs in the same price bracket.

    So I bit the bullet and charged the whole lot on the company account :-)

    A couple of photos:
    Unboxing
    http://i.imgur.com/HxFuG0h.jpg
    Chosen pesado portafilter and basket
    http://i.imgur.com/d1F6cwG.jpg
    Choices Choices Choices
    http://i.imgur.com/R423pyy.jpg

    Beautiful range of tampers
    http://i.imgur.com/LIL5nXF.jpg

    I should say at this point, that it's never a good idea to set up a new coffee machine at 7pm, I pulled about 20 shots for whoever would drink them, refrigerated the rest, then couldn't sleep until ~3am.

    The Quamar Q50 Push grinder is fantastic, it doses out the beans quickly and effectively, way better result than the Rocky. My only criticism is the base cannot support digital scales below the coffee outlet. My Rancilio Rocky would hold my scales below the outlet and the coffee was measured as it was ground, without modification the Quamar can't do this.

    The Profitec 700 machine itself is amazing, everything I'd read about and more. One word to describe it would be "shiny". The build quality is beyond impressive and the operation is very easy to use. I plan on plumbing the unit (any suggestions on running a 6mm filter water line to the Profitec supplied tubing would be welcome) which will help immensely as the water tank in the Profitec, whilst larger than the Miss Silvia, seems to disappear very quickly.

    My first shot was far better than anything I'd had from any local coffee shops, and they only got better after that. I haven't pulled one bad shot after 3 days of messing around, I attribute that to 1 part magic and 2 parts fantastic temperature regulation in the E61 grouphead. Here's a video of a shot pulled this morning:
    https://youtu.be/7Y0-g32Zfck.

    My only criticism of the machine so far is that Jet Black Espresso who import the machines, supply the machines with a modified PID controller which removes one of the settings allowing the user to engage both boilers at the same time, setting F.02 setting 5 has been removed from the supplied system. The the ability for the user to run the machine at 15 amps has been removed for safety reasons. Whilst I can understand the reason behind this, I'd already wired up a 15A outlet for the machine and now cannot use the full functionality of the machine without an expensive PID replacement. Still working this problem out...

    I'm already thrilled to have this beast in my kitchen, here's a shot of it on the kitchen bench:
    http://i.imgur.com/2SfqkZh.jpg

    EDIT: Images hosted with coffeesnobs weren't loading so replaced with external links
    Last edited by enricomanchez; 23rd May 2016 at 09:16 AM.
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    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Great machine and great review. Pics not loading for me though?

    The shot timer on the PID is a great feature.

    Is yours plumbed in and you are doing the pre infusion?

    Also good practice to flush the grinds off the shower screen after unlocking PF.

    My Duetto is configured so both boilers don't heat at the same time with priority to the brew boiler (10A). I don't find this an issue to be honest, I guess it takes a little bit longer to initially heat the water in the boilers but it's still quite quick.

    Enjoy the new toys!

    Cheers

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    All current Izzo Alex Duetto III and some Duetto II units are configured to heat both boilers simultaneously.

    We specified this for AUS stock some years ago and the resultant performance (especially steam) for the machine is superior and amongst (if not) the very best. This configuration draws 2170W total.

    A 15A variant is available, but testing did not deliver any significant real world advantage.
    Last edited by TC; 23rd May 2016 at 08:04 AM. Reason: more info

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    The main reason for wanting both boilers activated is to use the hot water want for tea. It should take 2-3 mins to heat the steam boiler for tea, instead we need to wait for the brew boiler then the steam, totalling ~10 mins.

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    Kettles do a good job at heating water for tea quickly
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyeba View Post
    Kettles do a good job at heating water for tea quickly
    Yep, I've discovered that a kettle, electric or gas, is a very quick (less than a minute) and effective method of boiling a small volume of water for a cuppa, and, ya know, the less water in the kettle the quicker it heats.

    Something my grand parents taught me, they discovered this for themselves in the early 1900's.
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    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    I have found that water straight from the espresso machine boiler is usually too hot and kills the flavour. If I am making tea or long black, I always use a kettle.

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    Profitec pro 700 purchase experience and first impressions

    I make tea and long blacks from the hot water wand.

    To get a nice temperature I put in a small splash of cold water first, then hot water from the machine, then the teabag or double espresso shot in last.

    It's a good idea to use your machine's hot water tap regularly, as it introduces fresh water into the steam boiler.

    This turnover of water in the boiler reduces mineral concentration and therefore deters scale.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enricomanchez View Post


    The the ability for the user to run the machine at 15 amps has been removed for safety reasons. Whilst I can understand the reason behind this, I'd already wired up a 15A outlet for the machine and now cannot use the full functionality of the machine without an expensive PID replacement. Still working this
    I get why they did this. Many (or even most) domestic users will use these machines on timer switches, Wemo's and the like.

    These devices all have limits of 2400W or less.

    The last thing an importer wants is a spate of house fires from one of their products. Look at how much trouble Samsung is in at the moment. Err on the side of safety.

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    We offer the 15A version of our Duetto- uprated element to draw 2570W in total. It cannot be run on 10A

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    On Aust. 230V, options are larger elements with priority to brew- Rocket, Profitec et al or 2 x smaller element with simultaneous heating- Izzo.

    Manufacturers will sometimes allow importers to configure as they choose so long as the machine does not draw more than 10A when everything is operating. This allows for roughly 2300W of headspace.

    The architecture of each machine will influence whether a parallel or sequential approach works best with a particular machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    On Aust. 230V, options are larger elements with priority to brew- Rocket, Profitec et al or 2 x smaller element with simultaneous heating- Izzo.
    This relates to the initial heating of the two boilers. Once up to temperature, the PID controllers will draw a moderate current to keep the boilers at the prescribed temperature. Are both boilers active under these conditions?

    Otherwise the temperature stability provided by the PID controllers would be impacted, as the switching from one boiler to the other occurs. The boiler that is off will not be maintaining its PID set point.

    Perhaps this doesn't matter, since the inherent temperature stability comes from the E61 grouphead, and one is unlikely to notice any impact on the steam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    I get why they did this. Many (or even most) domestic users will use these machines on timer switches, Wemo's and the like.

    These devices all have limits of 2400W or less.

    The last thing an importer wants is a spate of house fires from one of their products. Look at how much trouble Samsung is in at the moment. Err on the side of safety.
    Couldn't agree more. Being able to switch a machine into drawing 15A via a couple of presses on a PID controller is asking for trouble. We don't assume every user will understand the ramifications of what they are doing. Furthermore, having done some side by side testing with a 10A and 15A version of this machine the difference in a normal domestic situation is zip.

    For those who are prepared to put in the 15A power point, the Pro 700 can be optioned as a 15A machine when purchasing. And it can also be converted via a controller swap at a later date.

    charlie
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlight View Post
    Otherwise the temperature stability provided by the PID controllers would be impacted, as the switching from one boiler to the other occurs. The boiler that is off will not be maintaining its PID set point.
    I would imagine that the alternate switch times would be very, very tiny and such that the PV of either boiler is little effected...

    Mal.
    P.S.
    This is the case with my DJE DB anyway...
    Last edited by Dimal; 27th May 2016 at 05:17 PM.

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    On my PID Silvia the switch time to maintain its small boiler temp is just a 'flicker' on the 'on' light. So I would imagine on the R58 which I now have the switch time on and between each boiler would only be a bit longer flicker. So unless having to heat up a lot , it may 'appear' in slow lime to be a continuous current flow to each - this is the blessing of the PID.

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    Yes in theory, but sorta no.

    Most (all?) machines which alternate priority to the boilers will attend to the brew boiler until such a time as it's in equilibrium. What this means is if you pull a shot and are texturing milk simultaneously, there will be no power applied to the steam boiler until such time as the brew boiler is in equilibrium. This is not required with the Duetto as both boilers receive power simultaneously. PID behaviour is easily observed when the covers are removed from a machine to allow the SSRs to be visible.

    Regardless, so long as there is sufficient steam reserve to allow for a milk texture event, it's probably academic so long as the steam boiler has sufficient capacity. I don't think that a serial strategy in a machine with 800ml steam boiler would prove all that successful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    I don't think that a serial strategy in a machine with 800ml steam boiler would prove all that successful.
    Not an issue with the Profi 700 though, which has a 2.0Lt Steam Boiler volume...

    Mal.
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    Great choice I had bought one in March
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    god damn it. I didn't know that we cannot run 15amp. I got new cable, circuit breaks all ready to rock, just been lazy running out the cable. Main issue was that my bar fridge draws from same point as my studio moniors cause them to crackle when the compressor kicks in.
    I wish this was stated as a option prior to purchase.
    How much is the PID replacement?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasic View Post
    god damn it. I didn't know that we cannot run 15amp. I got new cable, circuit breaks all ready to rock, just been lazy running out the cable. Main issue was that my bar fridge draws from same point as my studio moniors cause them to crackle when the compressor kicks in.
    I wish this was stated as a option prior to purchase.
    How much is the PID replacement?
    pm sent

    charlie

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    Or......food grade silicon grease which will not accelerate deterioration of internal seals

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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    I get why they did this. Many (or even most) domestic users will use these machines on timer switches, Wemo's and the like.

    These devices all have limits of 2400W or less.

    The last thing an importer wants is a spate of house fires from one of their products. Look at how much trouble Samsung is in at the moment. Err on the side of safety.
    Surely the 15A machine would have had a 15A plug on it, preventing use in common 10A timers. Sure you'll get the occasional idiot replacing the plug so it fits but I tend to think the 10A alternating arrangement is just more appropriate for the home market.

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    Only a side note. You are able to draw 2570w from a standard outlet as most power circuits are run on a 20 amp breaker. P=IV 2570 = I x 230 . = 11.17 amps. An available circuit wattage is generally 4600watts but normally if appliances are rated over 10 amps will have 15amp plugs to encourage dedicated circuits to stop overload or nuisance tripping. A friendly sparky just run a circuit easily enough

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    As a result of Jetblack supplying a couple of Profitecs to a Perth retailer I was able to obtain one locally. I had done a lot of research and I wanted to avoid the desire to upgrade in the future. Hence this is my last fling.
    The machine is great and I am now getting a very satisfying brew.
    If anyone needs a good look at the Profitecs, whole Latte Love have some good YouTube videos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnd80 View Post
    I had done a lot of research and I wanted to avoid the desire to upgrade in the future. Hence this is my last fling.
    Yeah....good luck with THAT one....

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    Wink 6 Month update

    Hi, it's been 6 months since I purchased the machine and I figure I should give some feedback on how it's been going with a few insights which maybe not completely obvious without using the machine every day.

    I expected the novelty would fade or wear out after a few months, but the machine has been a joy to use every day since buying it. I'm still genuinely excited to make coffee every day, the extraction is always spot on. The only variation is finding the right grind settings when buying new beans, otherwise the Profitec is spot on every time.

    Here's a pic of the machine, pretty much the same as when I bought it. The biggest problem with the machine is keeping it clean, the mirror finish stainless steel is a PITA to keep shiny. I use a spray bottle with a mix of isopropyl alcohol, white vinegar, mint oil and corn starch, it sounds strange but it works a charm. You can see on the right I've added a automatic switch timer to the plug so the machine has time to warm up in the morning. The glasses on top rattle around when the pump is on, but they stay nice and toasty so the trade-off is worth it IMO.

    A few months ago I took the plunge and started drilling holes in my kitchen bench so I could attach the machine to the water mains and add a drainage hose for the drip tray. If you haven't done this already I highly recommend it, without the plumbing the drip tray seems like it fills up every second day. Without the water mains, the tank seems to always be empty when I'm about to make a coffee (really annoying). One of the added benefits is I can use the brew water to clean the basket before and after making a coffee, the drip tray is now like a sink which is fantastic. I'm happy to give any pointers if you're planning on doing this yourself.

    Attaching the machine to the water mains was much easier than I expected. I have a three stage water filter purchased from The Water People, they supplied me with the correct adaptor to connect their thin blue water pipe to the metal mesh one supplied with the Profitec. It took about 1 hour total. The Profitec pump handle has three positions: 1.off 2.open but no pump 3.open with pump. You can only take advantage of the second position when the machine is plumbed as the water mains pressure will push through the brew boiler regardless of the pump being engaged or not. Here's a video of the three handle positions in action https://youtu.be/nN-8DD-PoPM. Using the water mains to pre-infuse is also quite handy.

    Here's a shot of the underside of the machine. I had to jack the Profitec screw in feet up to their highest setting to get everything to fit neatly. The biggest challenge was getting the drain hose to run smoothly, it was tricky getting it to drain quickly enough to handle the pump at full speed, even now I'd prefer it to drain quicker. Here's a shot of the drain pool which sits below the drip tray, I assume one purpose of this design is to stop the drain hose clogging up with coffee, you can see coffee building up around the sides (I never clean this).

    Having the machine turn on before I wake up makes it very convenient to make tea using the hot water wand from the boil tank. However, despite the 2 litre volume of the boiler, the tank can only output about 600ml before running out of pressure. To maximise the amount of hot water output from the boiler Profitec actually recommend switching the machine off before opening the valve to avoid the pump pushing cool water into the boiler and reducing the pressure. Here's a video of the hot water wand doing it's thing https://youtu.be/t5QgGDBZnbI , you can't really hear too well, but the pump engages as soon as the valve is opened reducing the water pressure and stopping the flow. I assume the water mains can't push freely into the steam boiler like with the brew boiler.

    The steam wand is fantastic, one feature I never knew I wanted was the "cool touch" feature which is basically an insulated layer in the steam wand to stop the metal in contact with the milk getting too hot. This makes it super easy to clean after steaming milk, there's never any hardened milk built up on the tip. I've been meaning to increase the temperature in the boiler from the factory setting of 128C, I find it hard to get a super silky microfoam due to a lowish steam pressure (in comparison with my Rancilio Miss Silvia).

    I figured the Pesado 22g basket would be my everyday basket but I find it a bit fussy to get a good tamp with (any tips are very welcome). Used in conjunction with the Pesado Naked Black Portafilter a less-than-perfect tamp will result in coffee spraying all over my shiny machine. I've been using the 18g basket supplied with the profitec as my go-to. The two portafilters supplied with the machine have VERY tight basket fittings making it extremely hard to remove the basket without tools. It'd be a real pain using the Profitec portafilter on a daily basis if I wanted to change baskets regularly. I highly recommend the Pesado portafilter, it's amazingly well built and compliments the machine perfectly.

    The Quamar Q50 Push grinder has been a solid unit so far. I have no complaints at all. It has a timer dial on the side to help dose out the correct amount of coffee, which isn't 100% accurate and takes time to set correctly with new beans, but does a good enough job. Here's a video of it dosing out 18g https://youtu.be/Y10AQH8JIIU

    Let me know if you have any questions about points I may've missed.

    EDIT: I'm still bummed at the machine being supplied with a lower spec PID controller. I contacted Jet Black Espresso directly after purchasing the machine in May to ask about switching the controller and was quoted several hundred dollars for the changeover (my existing PID was now used as I'd taken it home so I needed to purchase a new one outright ). I haven't done this modification yet.
    Last edited by enricomanchez; 13th November 2016 at 03:21 PM. Reason: Commercial Link(s) Removed
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    Senior Member WiredArabica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enricomanchez View Post
    EDIT: I'm still bummed at the machine being supplied with a lower spec PID controller. I contacted Jet Black Espresso directly after purchasing the machine in May to ask about switching the controller and was quoted several hundred dollars for the changeover (my existing PID was now used as I'd taken it home so I needed to purchase a new one outright ). I haven't done this modification yet.
    I tried mine in the default one-boiler-at-a-time mode for a few days... That got old fast, especially trying to do a 600ml jug with 300ml of milk. Might be ok if you like doing the milk (or at least have it well underway) before brewing but in my opinion a dual-boiler when you can't run both at once is only half a machine. Since the online documentation from the manufacturer advises it's possible to run both at once via a user-accessible setting (with protection from accidental change and appropriate warnings) and yours doesn't I personally wouldn't have accepted that. Under NZ consumer laws I'd have redress - not sure what you have over there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WiredArabica View Post
    but in my opinion a dual-boiler when you can't run both at once is only half a machine.
    Can't agree with this. Most domestic dual boiler machines work this way - it's completely normal.

    The boilers are large and insulated, and there's plenty of thermal mass there so the alternate heating works fine.

    This keeps the machine comfortably under the 2400W limit of a standard domestic power socket, and it allows the machine to be used with timer switches (these also top out at 2400W).
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    Can't agree with this. Most domestic dual boiler machines work this way - it's completely normal.
    Oh? That's interesting, I didn't know that. My previous dual boiler was the Breville BDB which also runs both at once, though obviously the total power loading is much lower.

    I think the boiler priority in the Profitec 700 could be optimised a bit more, eg if it's pulling a shot and the steam boiler temp drops it'd be better to give the steam element at least some power rather than exclusively the group. Might be a better compromise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enricomanchez View Post
    EDIT: I'm still bummed at the machine being supplied with a lower spec PID controller. I contacted Jet Black Espresso directly after purchasing the machine in May to ask about switching the controller and was quoted several hundred dollars for the changeover (my existing PID was now used as I'd taken it home so I needed to purchase a new one outright ). I haven't done this modification yet.
    Yep, for what they are and the very average level of control they provide, these things are way overpriced. Depending on the room behind the location of the controller, you may be able to fit a decent quality industrial unit. Cheaper than any of the so-called specialist espresso machine controllers but way, way better in all respects...

    Mal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WiredArabica View Post
    Oh? That's interesting, I didn't know that. My previous dual boiler was the Breville BDB which also runs both at once, though obviously the total power loading is much lower.

    I think the boiler priority in the Profitec 700 could be optimised a bit more, eg if it's pulling a shot and the steam boiler temp drops it'd be better to give the steam element at least some power rather than exclusively the group. Might be a better compromise.
    The brew boiler needs priority because coffee flavour needs to come before speed to steam milk. In brew priority mode (ie normal 10Amp mode for Australian spec machines) the result is that the milk may take a few more seconds to be heated compared to 15Amp mode. And this is only if the barista is multitasking. Milk quality won't be affected either way. Few people would care about their milk taking a few more seconds to be ready considering it will still be quick compared to most domestic machines. Contrast this to inadvertently setting your 10Amp appliance into 15Amp mode and the possible consequences. We love to tinker as much as the next guy (ok probably more!). And getting the most out of the machines we range has been a theme for us since we started. But we've always taken the view that safety comes first, and I'm still happy we made the right call with Aus spec Pro 700.

    charlie
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    Contrast this to inadvertently setting your 10Amp appliance into 15Amp mode and the possible consequences. We love to tinker as much as the next guy (ok probably more!). And getting the most out of the machines we range has been a theme for us since we started. But we've always taken the view that safety comes first, and I'm still happy we made the right call with Aus spec Pro 700.
    charlie
    Whilst I can understand the safety concerns, it's a shame to reduce the performance of such a well thought out machine. Suggesting that 'few people will care', or 'you don't need that' is missing the point of spending a large amount on a machine like this. Profitec has designed the machine fantastically from top to bottom, any changes are second guessing the original decisions made by the designers & engineers. I can't help but imagine the response if another high end machine such as a Ferrari had its performance reduced by the importer.

    At the end of the day it's JBE's decision as to how they sell the machines. My real issue is a personal one; the 10A/15A changeover should've been made clear before I purchased the product. I'd researched the machine thoroughly before purchasing and made alterations to my wiring based on a shiny 15A device being plugged in. The alteration from the standard international specs should've been outlined on the JBE website. I called JBE within 24h of opening the box to ask for a changeover but was quoted several hundred dollars, I believe JBE should've switched out the controller at no cost.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by enricomanchez View Post
    My real issue is a personal one; the 10A/15A changeover should've been made clear before I purchased the product. I'd researched the machine thoroughly before purchasing and made alterations to my wiring based on a shiny 15A device being plugged in. The alteration from the standard international specs should've been outlined on the JBE website. I called JBE within 24h of opening the box to ask for a changeover but was quoted several hundred dollars, I believe JBE should've switched out the controller at no cost.
    Am I missing something here?
    I've copied this directly from this machine's Product Description on Jetback Espresso's web site.


    • Current 10A (15A option available - please specify when ordering

    Unless this has been added since the purchase, I would think it was very clearly stated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    I can see how you would get confused by doing your research online and seeing O/S models
    The information I read was very clear and consistent.

    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    so, the performance difference between 10A and 15A is negligible.
    Again, saying 'you don't need that extra power' is missing the point when spending $3000+ on a coffee machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    I'm guessing that this is an issue because you researched using O/S websites
    Among others, I researched my information on the Australian importers website, which matched the official manufacturer manual for the machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    there's really no need for 15A when the unit is set for 10A
    And again, you could say there's no need for me to buy a new a coffee machine, I already had a good one. This is a passion of precision, where improving performance and accuracy are paramount. There is a difference, and that's what matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    nice write up EM. Thanks for taking the time to share.
    Thanks, my intention here is to share my experience. I hope this information helps others make a good product choice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewster View Post
    Am I missing something here?
    I've copied this directly from this machine's Product Description on Jetback Espresso's web site.


    • Current 10A (15A option available - please specify when ordering

    Unless this has been added since the purchase, I would think it was very clearly stated.
    Hi Brewster, Jetblack Espresso added this information immediately after refusing my request for a changeover in May 2016.

    Here's a link to JBE's Profitec 700 page a few days prior to my phone call (dated April 20th 2016).
    https://web.archive.org/web/20160420...ofitec-pro-700
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    Senior Member Brewster's Avatar
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    That makes sense now.
    Thanks for clearing that up enrichomanchez.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enricomanchez View Post
    Hi Brewster, Jetblack Espresso added this information immediately after refusing my request for a changeover in May 2016.

    Here's a link to JBE's Profitec 700 page a few days prior to my phone call (dated April 20th 2016).
    https://web.archive.org/web/20160420...ofitec-pro-700
    I still can't see from that what made you think you were buying the 15amp version? . You claim to have thoroughly researched your purchasing decision, but neglected to ask the most important question of the vendor before buying - ie - is this the 15amp version (i've seen on overseas websites) ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kofekitt View Post
    I still can't see from that what made you think you were buying the 15amp version? . You claim to have thoroughly researched your purchasing decision, but neglected to ask the most important question of the vendor before buying - ie - is this the 15amp version (i've seen on overseas websites) ?
    There's nothing there to suggest it differs to the manufacturers specification - indeed it's cut and paste from the Profitec website, so why would a customer expect to have to ask if it is the same machine? If it's a custom product for a particular supplier, the onus is on the supplier to disclose such information. I'd suggest it should carry a different model number - e.g. 701, to differentiate it and avoid such confusion.

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    Most manufacturers make machines to many different specs for different markets/countries . If we started giving each one different model numbers it would be even more confusing for the consumer . There is no one 'manufacturers spec'

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    Quote Originally Posted by kofekitt View Post
    Most manufacturers make machines to many different specs for different markets/countries . If we started giving each one different model numbers it would be even more confusing for the consumer .
    You'll find that many if not most manufacturers of electrical or electronic goods complete product codes have fields that differentiate markets, it's very common and I see no reason why this can't apply to espresso machines.

    In any case all this discussion is mostly irrelevant as it completely misses the point: If the seller were upfront about his custom build for this market (which he subsequently rectified in the listing) then this situation would not have occurred. Either the customer would request what he was after or wouldn't have bought it in the first place. He made an error, has an unhappy customer and will hopefully decide to put it right.

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    I don't think it is irrelevant or missing the point - my point is - it isn't a 'custom build' . It is the AU spec , as specified by the importer . I'm just trying to point out the dangers of people internet researching machines, and expecting them to all be the same worldwide . No-where in the original listing did it state both boilers could be run simultaneously or it was 15amp . The listing was altered for clarity , not rectified
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    Quote Originally Posted by kofekitt View Post
    I still can't see from that what made you think you were buying the 15amp version? . You claim to have thoroughly researched your purchasing decision, but neglected to ask the most important question of the vendor before buying - ie - is this the 15amp version (i've seen on overseas websites) ?
    Hi kofekitt, Australian consumer law states that the seller needs to specify what's being sold to the buyer. The buyer should assume that unless otherwise specified, the product will match the available product specifications. Check here: https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/co...mer-guarantees

    You can claim a remedy directly from the manufacturer or importer if the goods do not meet one or more of the following consumer guarantees:

    • matching description
    I'm sure JBE realised their product description didn't mention alterations done to the machine which is why they added it.
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    Not weighing in on the which side is right here, but is regrettable that the issue couldn't be resolved via a reasonable phone chat.
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    I had hoped this discussion would contain more varied topics. However the 10/15A debate combined with consumer expectations seems to have dominated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    All current Izzo Alex Duetto III and some Duetto II units are configured to heat both boilers simultaneously.


    We specified this for AUS stock some years ago and the resultant performance (especially steam) for the machine is superior and amongst (if not) the very best. This configuration draws 2170W total.


    A 15A variant is available, but testing did not deliver any significant real world advantage.

    Hey TalkCoffee, the Izzo Alex Duetto III draws 2170W at 10A, does it pull any more at 15A? The Profitec 700 is 1400W at 10A and 2600W at 15A.

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    On balance, if it's indeed the case that the site was changed after Enrico raised this, then I think Jetblack should step up and cover this as a GOGW if Enrico really wants it.

    It's just good business sense since any potential AU buyer of the Pro 700 is likely to come across this thread as soon as they start googling prior to buying.

    Having said all that, if I were enrico I'd really consider whether the 15a configuration is a good idea. There are some downsides, such as loss of the ability to use a Wemo or similar timer switch, all for a very marginal benefit in very limited circumstances (high volume domestic or light commercial use)

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    Quote Originally Posted by enricomanchez View Post
    Hi Brewster, Jetblack Espresso added this information immediately after refusing my request for a changeover in May 2016.

    Here's a link to JBE's Profitec 700 page a few days prior to my phone call (dated April 20th 2016).
    https://web.archive.org/web/20160420...ofitec-pro-700
    Looks to me like you made an assumption and were wrong unfortunately. Jetblack took your feedback and updated their website to help avoid anyone else making the same mistake.

    If I had of purchased one I would have assumed it was 10 amp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samuellaw178 View Post
    No comment on the situation or who's right or wrong...but 15 amp would also potentially mean less resale value - you can't simply just plug and go on any domestic switch (mostly 10A) and this limits the market only to those who can have a dedicated wiring. Worst case, fire could happen if it's overtaxing the outlet (or trips the circuit breaker) and insurance might not be so happy about that....
    Hi samuellaw178, the imported Profitec 700 (as it leaves the factory in Italy) is equipped with a PID controller capable of 15A. The default setting is to draw 10A, powering only one boiler at a time. The settings can be changed using the PID control to enable the dual boiler mode which draws 15A, see the online manual here: http://​http://www.profitec-espresso...0_englisch.pdf . So the model produced by Profitec is capable of drawing 10A or 15A depending on your preference, I would argue this increases the value.

    Quote Originally Posted by trentski View Post
    If I had of purchased one I would have assumed it was 10 amp.
    Hi trentski, why would you assume it was max 10A?

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    Enrico. If elements are fitted to the machine and available PID options make it capable of drawing more than 10A, the machine MUST be sold in Australia as a 15A machine, regardless of how it's configured in the box you purchase. It's plain and simple and frankly not worth arguing about. It's the law. Period.

    If you want a 15A machine and Jetblack have an open rather than locked down PID, they may choose to offer it as an extra cost option with the appropriate modifications to make it kosher. This takes time and costs. Jetblack are doing the right and correct thing.

    My advice? Move on and enjoy your machine. Next time, ask.

    My advice to others? Be careful when you look at international (especially US) websites which refer to 15A gear. We live in Australia and purchase Australian specification equipment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by enricomanchez View Post
    Hi trentski, why would you assume it was max 10A?
    Just like Trentski I’d assume every appliance I buy in Aus is 10A. Just like I assume every appliance is 240v…
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    Cautionary tale.
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