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Thread: Profitec Pro 700 vs Giotto EVO

  1. #1
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    Profitec Pro 700 vs Giotto EVO

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi Ben..

    New to the forum, first post and sorry for jumping on an old thread but I was wondering how you are finding the Pro 700 ?

    I am weighing up between the 700 and the Giotto EVO but leaning more towards the Pro so would be very interested to hear your thoughts, ease of use etc.

    Thank you in advance for any words of advice.

    Cheers,

    Alastair

  2. #2
    TC
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    Welcome Alastair.

    Yes- Agreed with Paul. Logical competitors to the Profitec are machines such as the Rocket Espresso R58, Izzo Alex Duetto, VBM Domobar 2B et al.

    All should be considered and bang for buck should be considered before they're eliminated. The right machine for you is the one which best suits your circumstances.
    Last edited by TC; 28th May 2016 at 09:48 AM. Reason: tpyo

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    Cheers guys and some good words of advice. I realised that as soon as I hit submit that I mean to say the shortlist is made up of the R58 and Pro 700 at this stage (not the EVO).
    Will pop in to Jet Black over the next few weeks to have a chat with them and hopefully get a feel for the machines.

    Also awaiting the release of the new Baratza grinder (Sette 270w)... On paper it looks rather good and hopefully a good match for either machine.

    I also came across the Pro 700 thread which has some excellent feedback and reviews from happy owners.

    Many more question to come I am sure

    Cheers,

    Alastair

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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggers View Post

    Also awaiting the release of the new Baratza grinder (Sette 270w)... On paper it looks rather good and hopefully a good match for either machine.

    Cheers,

    Alastair
    I'm not saying don't buy this sort of grinder, however I'd be pretty hesitant to jump in with this one. Give it a year or two for people to find its weaknesses if there are any. If you're happy with an appliance level grinder a Breville Smart Grinder can be bought for about a 1/4 of the price. Otherwise look at a tried and tested small planar burr grinder from a reputable maker such as Compak or Anfim/ECA.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Yes, the Profitec Pro 700 certainly looks the goods and would make my shortlist, as would the Giotto R58. Is there a reason why you have settled on a double boiler?

    Also, I would be considering buying your grinder at the same time as your machine.I had a look at the Baratza and, while it may be a good grinder and top of the range for Baratza, the priceline suggests it is a lower end grinder in the 'conical' class, most of which retail for more than $2K. I would be sticking with the tried and trusted brands to match your new machine: Compak, Macap, Mazzer, Profitec, ECA,

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    Thanks all for the thoughts and suggestions and your thoughts re the grinder make good sense. I suppose with any new equipment it is alway best to wait for the second or third iteration and give time for any weak points to work themselves out.

    As for the double boiler vs single main thought process behind it are hopefully greater flexibility and better consistency and a machine that will grow as my skills and knowledge increases for many years to come.

    No real world experience as yet but from reviews, comments on this and other sites the consensus seems to be that a more consistent temp and improved results can be achieved through having greater flexibility/control of separate boiler temps plus, in the case of the Pro 700 I love the idea of the on board PID and shot timer.

    I need to save up a little more but hope to be taking the plunge in the next month or so and very much looking forward to it

    Thank you for everything and I really appreciate your help and advice and will keep you posted as to what path I venture down.

    Cheers and chat soon.

    Alastair
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    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    You won't know yourself! I jumped onboard 12 months ago, and have loved the whole ride.

    I'm a Sydneysider, and Jetblack were exceptionally helpful to me, both Charlie and Brad via email and in person, let me dip my toe in the water of asking information without the promise of a sale, then once I was ready gave me a great machine/grinder/accessories deal, and excellent after sales support when I needed a tweak (on my HX).

    One word of caution - you'll probably need about $400 more than you'd hoped to spend - 'cause things like water filtration and helpful accessories will chew up a bit of your budget.
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  8. #8
    TC
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    Probably 500 in the last month for you Paul
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    WOW - 500 posts in 12 months.
    !!!RESPECT!!!
    Quantity and quality are two entirely different things.

    Whoops, maybe shot myself in the foot, just did the math, joined in 2009, average post count per year 590+.

    Bearing the above in mind, I'm reminded of the quote by Bernard M. Baruch,

    “Most of the successful people I’ve known are the ones who do more listening than talking.”
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  10. #10
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    I both agree and take offence :P
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by readeral View Post
    I both agree and take offence :P
    Know what you mean, think I've even offended myself.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    No offence there. I think Yelta was trying to say. "You guys are amazing - so many posts and such amazing/outstanding/unequalled quality"
    Correct Yelta ???
    Your right, no offence intended, I'll reserve my opinion re the overall standard of content.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Interesting.... Take the past 8 weeks - My sponsors thread has had over 3000 views and during that 8 weeks there would have been no more that 20-30 people actually posting new content on the forum.
    That's the nature of advertising Paul, think about it, only a very small percentage of people who read an ad respond, that's why large organisations attempt to reach as many potential customers as possible via TV etc, and of course a larger viewing audience comes with a hefty price tag.

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    Cheers Al.. excited and looking forward to beginning the journey.

    Jetblack are reasonably local (I live in Concord) so will be along to see the guys over the coming weeks and I must admit that I have heard nothing but great things regarding them.

    Thanks for the advice re the add-ons and yep a filter is factored into the mix as well. Plan on plumbing he machine (old kitchen so drilling a hole no hassle and the C150 filters seem to be the way to go (not sure as to the best variant but will see what is suggested).

    On a slightly different note.. has anyone done any sort of barista course ? I see Jetblack run one and I am tempted (once I have decided on the machine) to do one. I just feel that an investment of this type warrants every advantage I can get and it would be good to get off on the right foot and learn proper techniques before to many poor habits set in.

    Anyway, I so appreciate everyone's feedback and advice.

    Cheers.

    Alastair

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    I did Jetblack's barista course a long time ago. It was very helpful.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggers View Post
    Cheers Al.. excited and looking forward to beginning the journey.

    Jetblack are reasonably local (I live in Concord) so will be along to see the guys over the coming weeks and I must admit that I have heard nothing but great things regarding them.

    Thanks for the advice re the add-ons and yep a filter is factored into the mix as well. Plan on plumbing he machine (old kitchen so drilling a hole no hassle and the C150 filters seem to be the way to go (not sure as to the best variant but will see what is suggested).

    On a slightly different note.. has anyone done any sort of barista course ? I see Jetblack run one and I am tempted (once I have decided on the machine) to do one. I just feel that an investment of this type warrants every advantage I can get and it would be good to get off on the right foot and learn proper techniques before to many poor habits set in.

    Anyway, I so appreciate everyone's feedback and advice.

    Cheers.

    Alastair

    G'Day Hoggers, welcome to Coffee Snobs.

    Jetblack are an excellent company to do business with.

    Doing a barista course with them would certainly be a good move, will put you well and truly on the right path and save a lot of hassles in your start up period.

    Good luck.
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    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggers View Post
    On a slightly different note.. has anyone done any sort of barista course ? I see Jetblack run one and I am tempted (once I have decided on the machine) to do one. I just feel that an investment of this type warrants every advantage I can get and it would be good to get off on the right foot and learn proper techniques before to many poor habits set in.

    Anyway, I so appreciate everyone's feedback and advice.

    Cheers.

    Alastair
    Great idea. Do a course like Jet Black's one that is aimed at the home user. Even if you pick it up quickly it'll still be money well spent to minimise frustrations (note: you can't eliminate them altogether. ;-P). On the other hand if you struggle with a couple of things you've got someone on hand to tell you what you're doing wrong. The alternative is hours on the net and hours of practice. (You'll still probably do these things, you'll just have a head start).

  18. #18
    Senior Member readeral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggers View Post
    Cheers Al.. excited and looking forward to beginning the journey.

    Jetblack are reasonably local (I live in Concord) so will be along to see the guys over the coming weeks and I must admit that I have heard nothing but great things regarding them.

    Thanks for the advice re the add-ons and yep a filter is factored into the mix as well. Plan on plumbing he machine (old kitchen so drilling a hole no hassle and the C150 filters seem to be the way to go (not sure as to the best variant but will see what is suggested).

    On a slightly different note.. has anyone done any sort of barista course ? I see Jetblack run one and I am tempted (once I have decided on the machine) to do one. I just feel that an investment of this type warrants every advantage I can get and it would be good to get off on the right foot and learn proper techniques before to many poor habits set in.

    Anyway, I so appreciate everyone's feedback and advice.

    Cheers.

    Alastair
    The money'll be worth in once you factor in the coffee you might waste learning by yourself. My first day with a machine alone I burned through $30 worth of coffee without a decent shot in the lot of it.

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    Great advice ;-)

    I must admit that the Jetblack course looks to be specifically targeted to the home user whilst many others look to be more commercially orientated (including the machines used as part of the course).

    The other think I really like about the Jetblack course is the option to use your own machine/grinder. This would be excellent as I would learn how to correctly set everything up for (hopefully) the best results... dependent on the inevitable user errors ;-)

    Getting more excited by the day

    Alastair
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  20. #20
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggers View Post
    Great advice ;-)

    I must admit that the Jetblack course looks to be specifically targeted to the home user whilst many others look to be more commercially orientated (including the machines used as part of the course).

    The other think I really like about the Jetblack course is the option to use your own machine/grinder. This would be excellent as I would learn how to correctly set everything up for (hopefully) the best results... dependent on the inevitable user errors ;-)

    Getting more excited by the day

    Alastair
    Using your own gear sounds like a great option to me Alastair.

  21. #21
    Senior Member iggs's Avatar
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    i have no doubt the jetblack course is excellent but another sponsor to consider is Di Bartoli - they have a discount running at the moment on their course. Basic Home Barista Workshop with Ofra Ronen and Renzo Castillo - Di Bartoli. They are definitely catered to the 'home barista'. I haven't done it, but have used their services on many other occasions and they have always been excellent.

    Hope you enjoy whichever you choose Alastair!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoggers View Post
    Great advice ;-)

    I must admit that the Jetblack course looks to be specifically targeted to the home user whilst many others look to be more commercially orientated (including the machines used as part of the course).

    The other think I really like about the Jetblack course is the option to use your own machine/grinder. This would be excellent as I would learn how to correctly set everything up for (hopefully) the best results... dependent on the inevitable user errors ;-)

    Getting more excited by the day

    Alastair

    Hi Alastair

    It's surely and exciting time, I'm going through the same motions. It's good to do the research and to select the right machine(s) that suit your particular needs / wants.

    You're also fortunate in that you can walk into a sponsor's lair and play with different machines, not so great up here in Brisbane (would be great for a sponsor to set up shop up here in Brisbane one day!).

    For me, I've had Profitec and ECM DB's and the Alex Leva on my short list, my leaning was with the Alex Leva until I stumbled across the Nota which is a SB HX.

    The Nota is a snazzy looking quality machine with a 3L boiler and it's looks can be optioned up with tempered glass sides. I've researched this machine and I am very comfortable with it.

    Then, just checking the lever terrain 1 last time before committing to the Nota I stumbled upon a very funky single lever in the Vostok, which is yet to go into production but appears to have the latest "smarts" attached to it. Just waiting on final details to be released by manufacturer to Chris who in turn will release to the Australian market. If this ticks the boxes I'll be running with it otherwise I'll be very happy with the Nota.

    So, theses are probably 2 machines that were not even on your radar that may either help you or throw you into a tail-spin!
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    Hi Richard.. Both the Nate and Vostok (especially the Vostok) look to be very interesting and amazing looking machines and I can see why you would be very happy with either of them.

    For me however I prefer the lines and look of the Pro 700. I can't explain it but to me it really is a gorgeous looking machine and ticks pretty much all my boxes. Coupled with the T64 grinder it is a match made in heaven

    Good luck with everything and look forward to hearing the adventures of you and your machine (I am sure there's a book title in there somewhere).

    Alastair
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    And that's what this is all about Alastair, which machine(s) will personally bring you the most joy.

    Most if not all machines in this price level will deliver the same result, it simply comes down to a developed technique and aesthetics.
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  25. #25
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    Spot on Richard. A skilled operator can make a great espresso on a $2k machine - no problem at all.
    A skilled operator can make this:



    Or this:



    On this:



    ;-P
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  26. #26
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    A skilled operator can make this:



    Or this:



    On this:



    ;-P
    You beat me to the punch Leroy, you certainly don't need to spend $2k, to make a decent espresso, plenty of cheaper alternatives available, Lelit and Silvia to name a couple.

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    Cheapest option for brand new pump driven espresso that the average drinker would consider cafe worthy is from a breville thermoblock with pid at around $350. To get cafe quality espresso and milk the game starts at a twin thermoblock sunbeam. From there the $ sky is the limit depending on your motivations and appetite for incremental increases in cup quality, aesthetics, durability, maintainability, prestige, user interface etc... I have been tortured with foul un-drinkable crap from a Slayer, and have enjoyed a true god shot from a Breville. There is a point where beans and technique become way more important than machine choice.
    Last edited by Melbroaster; 31st May 2016 at 12:27 PM.

  28. #28
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K_Bean_Coffee View Post
    ......hmmm. Thread is going off topic like a runaway freight train.
    You started it!! I had a laugh!
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  29. #29
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    Been kbeaned!
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    Hey, you don't need a machine at all just a stove if you have il barista skills.

    How to make capuccino at home

    For real skills you can watch this other video on youtube, il barista.

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    Re. original topic,

    Hi Alistair,

    I think both of those machines come from companies that are among the best engineering quality. There is a little difference between the HX with a pressurestat and a dual boiler PID. The Pro 700 is more directly comparable to a Rocket R58.

    Personally, I bought the Profitec Pro 700 about 1 month ago. Precision, reliability and longevity were important and I liked the look of it.

    It is exceptionally easy to use, much faster than the smaller machine it replaced.

    The only gotcha I had was caught by surprise the first time the tank emptied and it just stopped (not plumbed in yet), now I know what to expect that's no issue.

    Consistent pump pressure gives a really good shot. No waiting between shots. Fast and easy microfoam every time, also easy to quickly make too much foam if you are just after a single latte.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimJames View Post
    The only gotcha I had was caught by surprise the first time the tank emptied and it just stopped (not plumbed in yet), now I know what to expect that's no issue.
    Haha, I had exactly the same experience with the Synchronika - nearly phoned Paul in a panic thinking I'd run the boiler dry and stuffed the element or something

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    Cheers for the heads up on that one... It would have had me scratching my head trying to work out had gone wrong.

    Jim (or James) thanks for the info and the more I read and investigate the Pro 700 seems the one for me (build, ease of use (though I am sure most machines fulfil the criteria), reliability and the most important, though I will never admit it, looks).

    And Paul, I love the way that most of the discussions and threads on this forum seem to meaner away from topic and then work their way back.....

    Looking forward to the next instalment
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