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Thread: Alex Duetto IV - First impressions

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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Alex Duetto IV - First impressions

    So this morning I picked up my new machine from Antony at Casa Espresso. After placing an order sometime ago Im glad to say the wait was over and i was able to get it home and pump out a couple of shots to test the water. For anyone who reads this now and in the future I just wish to say i have come from a Expobar Minore which i owed for 5 plus years. the Expobar never missed a beat but like many on here seeing all these newer machines can get you wanting a newer machine. That said as much as i looked i kept thinking the Expobar had not missed a beat, so should i upgrade?

    So having had the Alex Duetto for a little over 2 hours now at home I wish to give you a brief run down of my thoughts so far. I wont compare it anymore to the Expobar...

    Straight out of the box you can see there has been alot of care put into the presentation of the machine and what comes with it. The machine is heavy I will say that much. When on the bench with the legs on its sits pretty nice and gives a shiny presence. Straight away you can see the quality of the build and the detail put into the machine itself. after turning it on you soon quickly realize the machine is quiet when the pump is on.
    the adjustment of the pressure was handy in the position it was as I did have to make an adjustment as it was set only at approx 8 bar. This would be more fiddly on many other machines, but this was simple and done in a few seconds.

    I mentioned to Antony, i really like the PID colour, not red, not blue just a subtle white colour if you can call white a colour. The water and steam knobs, look nice and work really well. The Pressure from the steam is something I have to say i need to get use too... A few steam tips to choose from also. The distance between the drip tray and portafilter is a real plus, it makes the machine look well balanced and allows my partner to use taller glass cups for her coffee.

    First shot came out a little quick, i put this down to the grinder being somewhat off and my partner adjusting it to use for something else sometime ago... This said the taste was pretty amazing. I was surprise as on my old machine it would have been evident the shot to taste sour, this didn't. After making some adjustments i got the coffee dialed in and was pulling great shot. As i said the machine is almost silent, which is a good thing for early mornings when the SO complains about hearing the Coffee machine going. She wont be complaining anymore... She wont hear it and came now make great coffee.

    As mentioned its been a little over 2 hours, but so far i dont have any doubt this machine is worth the money it is and will provide great coffee going forward. Its Durable and elegant at the same time. Anyone looking to buy one of these I think you are going to be impressed by the look and the coffee it can make.

    I wish to thank Antony from Casa Espresso for the good service, he kept me up to date with when the machines was coming. It made it very easy to buy this through him.

    Want to know anymore please ask.

    Chris
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  2. #2
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Classy machine mate...

    Mal.
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    beautiful machine, congrats
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    Looks awesome... and by the sounds of it you are going to experience many years of enjoyment
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    Senior Member Jono_Willmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffeechris View Post
    So this morning I picked up my new machine from Antony at Casa Espresso. After placing an order sometime ago Im glad to say the wait was over and i was able to get it home and pump out a couple of shots to test the water. For anyone who reads this now and in the future I just wish to say i have come from a Expobar Minore which i owed for 5 plus years. the Expobar never missed a beat but like many on here seeing all these newer machines can get you wanting a newer machine. That said as much as i looked i kept thinking the Expobar had not missed a beat, so should i upgrade?

    So having had the Alex Duetto for a little over 2 hours now at home I wish to give you a brief run down of my thoughts so far. I wont compare it anymore to the Expobar...

    Straight out of the box you can see there has been alot of care put into the presentation of the machine and what comes with it. The machine is heavy I will say that much. When on the bench with the legs on its sits pretty nice and gives a shiny presence. Straight away you can see the quality of the build and the detail put into the machine itself. after turning it on you soon quickly realize the machine is quiet when the pump is on.
    the adjustment of the pressure was handy in the position it was as I did have to make an adjustment as it was set only at approx 8 bar. This would be more fiddly on many other machines, but this was simple and done in a few seconds.

    I mentioned to Antony, i really like the PID colour, not red, not blue just a subtle white colour if you can call white a colour. The water and steam knobs, look nice and work really well. The Pressure from the steam is something I have to say i need to get use too... A few steam tips to choose from also. The distance between the drip tray and portafilter is a real plus, it makes the machine look well balanced and allows my partner to use taller glass cups for her coffee.

    First shot came out a little quick, i put this down to the grinder being somewhat off and my partner adjusting it to use for something else sometime ago... This said the taste was pretty amazing. I was surprise as on my old machine it would have been evident the shot to taste sour, this didn't. After making some adjustments i got the coffee dialed in and was pulling great shot. As i said the machine is almost silent, which is a good thing for early mornings when the SO complains about hearing the Coffee machine going. She wont be complaining anymore... She wont hear it and came now make great coffee.

    As mentioned its been a little over 2 hours, but so far i dont have any doubt this machine is worth the money it is and will provide great coffee going forward. Its Durable and elegant at the same time. Anyone looking to buy one of these I think you are going to be impressed by the look and the coffee it can make.

    I wish to thank Antony from Casa Espresso for the good service, he kept me up to date with when the machines was coming. It made it very easy to buy this through him.

    Want to know anymore please ask.

    Chris
    So glad it arrived safely, I'm a huge Alex fan and this is sometime very special, congrats and enjoy. It looks brilliant too.
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    Senior Member magnafunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffeechris View Post
    Want to know anymore please ask.
    Yeah, just wondering when you're inviting us all over for a sample
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  7. #7
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnafunk View Post
    Yeah, just wondering when you're inviting us all over for a sample
    Long drive for you mate, but sure we can work something out next time your down.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Classy machine mate...

    Mal.
    Mel, I hope you spotted a couple of the Espresso cups i bought from you on top of the machine.
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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Had a bit more time to play with the machine this evening as we had friends over. Loving it and getting use to it. I will say for me so far the pressure out of the steam tip is to the point i will have to get use to it. So far ive been unable to master the milk. That will come in time. So far I have no questions or gripes.

    Chris
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  10. #10
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Very nice!! Congrats!

    Cheers

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffeechris View Post
    Mel, I hope you spotted a couple of the Espresso cups i bought from you on top of the machine.
    I did notice the little NPs sitting in pride of place, and wondered about that...

    Mal.
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    Nice work Chris
    Looks great.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    You learn something new everyday....

    With the Alex Duetto, you get a number of steam tips. I never thought much about this as the Expobar came with just the one. As mentioned I have found the steam pressure to be extremely powerful, so powerful ive been unable to achieve what i would call my own preferred texture of Milk. After failing again this morning I though maybe i should go with a different tip. Not thinking about it i only assumed the less holes the easier it would be to control. When i looked in the box i expected to see a 1 hole steam tip, which there was not. I remember the Expobar had a 3 hole steam tip so decided to go with that appose to the 2 hole. Straight away it was a big change and i was able to achieve what i would normally.

    Chris
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    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    If it comes with the 4 hole 1mm diameter tip (pretty sure it does), give that a go. I have used this config on a couple of different machines with good success.

    At least you can experiment with them all and see what suits you. Some will be better at larger milk volumes.

    Cheers
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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    You've got to love the attention to detail that Izzo puts into all their products, as do Rocket Espresso too of course.
    Don't know of too many others that do this...

    Mal.

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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Thanks guys will do. After changing it over and noticing a difference it made, it actually made me think I should give the others ago and see what difference it makes.

    Mel, i must say in my original post about this I wanted to and forgot to mentioned im sure other machine makers put the attention to detail in to their machines like Izzo have. Its what makes it hard for someone looking at a new machine. Alot of the time you find prices are very similar and the ins and outs of them are similar from one maker to another. It comes down to looks when you have a price range in mind these days.

    Chris
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    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Hi Chris,

    Great all is going well.

    I knew you were keen to pick it up when you were waiting outside the showroom before we had opened on Saturday morning!

    Remember there is one other variable you can change with steaming and that is the pressure in the steam boiler. All easily adjustable through the PID control

    Cheers

    Antony
    www.casaespresso.com.au
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    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Another nicely presented option from Izzo.
    Optional coloured handle options including taps, lever, group handles and a white handled tamper.
    All nicely presented.
    Well done Izzo, we are impressed.

    Cheers

    Antony
    Www.casaespresso.com.au
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    So 2 weeks in - how’s ownership of the new Izzo going Chris... a worthwhile upgrade for the Expobar?

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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Hi Mfluder,

    Like many of us when purchasing something which can be pricey, we tend to think in the back of our minds am i making the right choice and do i need it?? Maybe in some way i dont need it as the Expobar was going well but I feel i made the right choice and i haven't once felt i didn't need to buy this machine. I wanted something new.

    I cant explain how but in someway its more ergonomic, as silly as it sounds and it seems to take me alot less time to make. The main thing for me is it very forgiving when making coffee, I was struggling at first to get the grind right, but that wasn't the machines fault and part of the struggle may have been that the coffee was already tasting good even though it wasn't with in my preferred extraction amount/time.

    The one big thing is the look, I loved the Expobar, but I have to say the finish on this is beautiful. To answer the question, yes its been a very worth while upgrade.

    Chris
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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casa Espresso View Post
    Hi Chris,

    Great all is going well.

    I knew you were keen to pick it up when you were waiting outside the showroom before we had opened on Saturday morning!

    Remember there is one other variable you can change with steaming and that is the pressure in the steam boiler. All easily adjustable through the PID control

    Cheers

    Antony
    www.casaespresso.com.au
    I have to admit two thing.... 1. Yes i was very Keen to pick it up!! 2. I have a very bad habit of always being very punctual

    steam is going well now and producing great milk. The entire machine is also easy for my partner to use as she was a little hesitate at first.
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    Senior Member saroadie's Avatar
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    Joined the club this afternoon.

    20180508_154158.jpg

  23. #23
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    You wont be disappointed, good purchase
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    Senior Member saroadie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffeechris View Post
    You wont be disappointed, good purchase
    I'm already making better shots than my old machine. Only need to be off roster now to have good play. Caffeine intake reduced due shift work.

    @coffeechris have you plumbed yours in?
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  25. #25
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    I haven't plumbed mine in, its crossed my mind many times (actually it crosses my mind every time i use it).

    My previous machine was an Expobar Minore, although this was a great machine it took me sometime to really get a good shot and be able to do it consistently. When i got the Duetto, like you I was pulling great shots on the first day.
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  26. #26
    Senior Member saroadie's Avatar
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    Yes, I'll bet plumbing in crosses your mind often.

    I received my machine on Tuesday and I certainly noticed the increased water usage of the E61 machine during 2 short sessions of making a few shots compared to my previous machine. It meant more frequent refills of the tank and so I had plumbed it in by Wednesday evening. Having recently fitted a Brita C150 finest and 3 way sink mixer in the kitchen, it was only a few hours pottering to make water to the Alex happen. Certainly there's pros and cons to plumbing but my last 5.5 years of tank filling are behind me now. The drain is still to be done but I'm collecting a few small bits and will have a crack at it in the next week. Meanwhile emptying the drip tray is way easier and quicker than refilling the tank.

    My journey was 2 consecutive Breville Dual Boiler machines. To be fair they're a great idea and for what they are make a good training ground. Achilles heel is the complexity vs price equation means 2.5 -3 years life until problems start.
    I'm confident the Alex will outlive both Brevilles by a large margin. It also looks like a Lamborghini Miura compared to the Breville's N12 Nissan Pulsar.

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    Member Morgz's Avatar
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    I have an Alex Duetto II which is now nearly 8 years old. Apart from a two year period when I was out of the country, it has been used every day without missing a beat; the only item needing attention being the PID after an LED segment failed. Clean Alex regularly and I'm sure you'll get many years of faithful service as well. My latest addition has been a wifi switch; I now tell Google Home to turn it on before I get out of bed, or turn it on using my phone before I get home. Best idea ever :-)
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  28. #28
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    I have the Duetto II and loving it. I too got the wifi switch ages ago, so awesome!! And unfortunately my PID LED segments are disappearing. I will have a crack at fixing the display module in the PID when I get a chance, will write up about it when I do.

    They are a quality bit of kit, looks great under the bonnet!

    Cheers
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  29. #29
    Senior Member saroadie's Avatar
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    I have now competed the drain plumbing and am loving the convenience of a fully plumbed machine.

    I did notice after plumbing in the water supply that a change (downward) was required to the pump pressure as brew pressure went up. This was easily done after a quick chat with Chris at TC to get the correct procedure and now I'm all set. Shots are superb.

    Like @coffeechris, I've found the milk is taking time to master. I'm just having some issues with good even integration, stretching is easy. I haven't noticed much difference switching from 2 hole to 3 hole tips so I may try out the 4 hole tips if I'm still not there after a bit more technique tweaking.

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    Alex iv or ECM Syncronica?

    Would any Alex iv owners swap to an ECM Syncronica?
    I have both on my shortlist for an upgrade and could acquire either at about the same EOFY price.

    I a prefer the Alex with its rotary steam/water valves, all ss construction, quiet rotary pump and ease of adjustments etc. But feel itís visual appearance is a tad underwhelming. The front panel visuals for me are quirky.

    The Synchro short changes a tad with the powder coated frame and selective use of ss. Unlike the Alex, it does not offer ease of pump adjustment or convenient boiler maintenance - but to me it offers a more balanced visual design.

    Both are great machines and Iím just about to toss a coin - but happy to receive feedback in case I missed something.
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  31. #31
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    It's just me but I always opt for better engineering and build quality when it's a close call with everything else...

    Would be the Duetto for me.

    Mal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    It's just me but I always opt for better engineering and build quality when it's a close call with everything else...

    Would be the Duetto for me.

    Mal.
    Hi Mal - thanks for the feedback.
    Can you clarify which areas of design/construction are superior in the Alex not mentioned in my post?

  33. #33
    Senior Member topshot's Avatar
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    Hi warmtone,

    I have owned my Duetto for eight and a half years now without any problems.

    My previous machine (not going to mention make, it was a dual boiler, great brand) had a powder coated frame, which was starting to get some rust after eighteen months!
    My Duetto has no signs of any corrosion and keeps pumping out great shots with a tonne of steam when I need it.

    I think I will still have my Duetto for at least another eight and a half years!

    Either machine will help you produce great shots.

    Just my recommendation as an owner of several machines and a very happy current Duetto owner!
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    Hi Topshot I am upgrading my VBM Domobar which still looks like new after 7 years.
    It is also all stainless steel construction which means it will last indefinitely.

    Powder coating to me seems a step backwards and a compromise as confirmed in your post.

    At $4K plus retail the ECM should be better - the powder coated chassis while hidden is an area of cost cutting.
    But in all other respects I maintain the Synchro is a fine machine and is well regarded on this Forum.

    I guess it comes down to which compromises are easiest to live with.
    I am starting to agree the Alex offers superior functional design and construction.
    Last edited by warmtone; 30th June 2018 at 05:50 PM.
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  35. #35
    Senior Member topshot's Avatar
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    Either machine will be a great decision, teamed up with a great grinder and you'll be in coffee heaven!
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  36. #36
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    If done correctly, the powedercoating should not be an issue with longevity. My previous machine Bezera Domus Galatea II had a powdercoated frame and it looked extremely well made and finished. I could not forsee it getting corroded anytime soon. It was built like a tank, with the front panel being super stiff with no group flex. My current machine Alex Duetto II is all stainless, but the group flexes a bit, i probably would not have noticed if I did not have the A/B comparison. Both are fantastic machine that look and feel that they are built to last.

    Best way is to go and have a play with both and see which one ticks the most of your boxes, its often the small details that can sway your decision.

    Cheers
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  37. #37
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    All things being equal, I'd choose the Stainless Steel frame over powder-coating any day. Had both a Rancilio and now a Vibiemme with rust in their powder-coated frames. I can sort of understand the need for this in cheaper machines to keep costs down but on a $4000 - $4500 machine?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    All things being equal, I'd choose the Stainless Steel frame over powder-coating any day. Had both a Rancilio and now a Vibiemme with rust in their powder-coated frames. I can sort of understand the need for this in cheaper machines to keep costs down but on a $4000 - $4500 machine?
    This is what convinces me that an all stainless steel frame is the only way to go for a high end investment.
    Izzo don’t cut corners in either the Duetto or Alex Leva from what I have seen.
    Clearly other manufacturers do - because stainless steel is expensive and reduces profit margins.
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  39. #39
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warmtone View Post
    This is what convinces me that an all stainless steel frame is the only way to go for a high end investment.
    Izzo don’t cut corners in either the Duetto or Alex Leva from what I have seen.
    Clearly other manufacturers do - because stainless steel is expensive and reduces profit margins.
    Whenever I look at the Izzo Alex Duetto IV online I find myself looking over my shoulder to check that no-one's watching. Coffee Machine porn at its best. Apologies to anyone that's offended by this. But seriously, try it. Dressed in the standard Black handles its great but I find the White ones very appealing. I'd better stop now.


    Alex white dress up.jpg
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 1st July 2018 at 12:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Whenever I look at the Izzo Alex Duetto IV online I find myself looking over my shoulder to check that no-one's watching. Coffee Machine porn at its best. Apologies to anyone that's offended by this. But seriously, try it. Dressed in the standard Black handles its great but I find the White ones very appealing. I'd better stop now.
    That wasnít creepy at all...
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  41. #41
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warmtone View Post
    Both are great machines and I’m just about to toss a coin - but happy to receive feedback in case I missed something.
    Not sure if its been mentioned previously but water pumped into the Izzo Alex Duetto IV Brew boiler is preheated via a heat exchanger in the Steam Boiler. This means that there's no cooling at all by cold water entering the Brew boiler.

    See Diagram below - (sourced from https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/I...er-look-v1.pdf)

    Alex Duetto IV Diagram.jpg


    The ECM Synchronika, like most Dual boilers, fills the Brew boiler with cold water direct from the reservoir or the mains supply. A minor influence on heated water in the Brew boiler while pulling a shot but pre-heated water removes this effect altogether. Comes into its own when doing multiple quick shots with some flushing thrown in also.
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 12th July 2018 at 05:25 PM.

  42. #42
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Not sure if its been mentioned previously but water pumped into the Izzo Alex Duetto IV Brew boiler is preheated via a heat exchanger in the Steam Boiler.

    See Diagram
    Slightly OT question: my interpretation of the diagram posted says that it draws the water for the hot water wand directly from the steam boiler rather than through the heat exchanger mentioned. Do you know if that is the case?

    It always seems to me that these machines are designed by people who don't drink tea (or who know not to use the hot water wand for tea)

  43. #43
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrebird View Post
    Slightly OT question: my interpretation of the diagram posted says that it draws the water for the hot water wand directly from the steam boiler rather than through the heat exchanger mentioned. Do you know if that is the case?
    Correct, hot water is via the steam boiler. According to the full review (link below), the heat exchanger is specifically designed for this machine to pre-heat water fed to the brew boiler for a higher degree of brew water temp accuracy/stability. Refer Review Page 16 "Hot Water".

    The steam boiler can be switched off and the machine run just with the brew boiler for espresso. It would then operate as most dual boilers do without pre-heating. I don't see the point though of owning a machine like this and not utilizing all its design features.

    Full review Izzo Alex Duetto IV - https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/I...er-look-v1.pdf

    The "plus" version has some additional features - https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf/I...ual-Boiler.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrebird View Post
    It always seems to me that these machines are designed by people who don't drink tea (or who know not to use the hot water wand for tea)
    Personally, I use an adjustable temp control kettle for tea. Green tea especially requires lower temp than coffee brew water temp. Its generally suggested that you let fresh water boil then cool to correct brewing temp. The temp read-out on my kettle is ideal for this. For teabags (God forbid!), I pour boiled water into cups to cool (and preheat cups) with a coffee thermometer in one cup. When the right temp is reached, drop in the teabags and brew. Takes out the bitterness similar to lowering temp on coffee brewing to adjust for bitterness.

    https://www.schooloftea.org/module/h...up-of-tea.html

    https://www.lipton.com/us/en/cult-of...green-tea.html
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 13th July 2018 at 09:53 AM.

  44. #44
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply and clarification.

    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Personally, I use an adjustable temp control kettle for tea. Green tea especially requires lower temp than coffee brew water temp.
    I agree wholeheartedly and would add that some black teas also benefit greatly from lower temps: I drink mostly 2nd flush single garden Darjeeling teas and brew them at about 90 oC. I just mix hot and cold water to achieve the temperature I want.
    Last edited by Lyrebird; 13th July 2018 at 10:18 AM.

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    What's the warm up time on this? Looking at it or the Leva.

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    Site Sponsor Casa Espresso's Avatar
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    Alex Duetto IV - First impressions

    Quote Originally Posted by wfdTamar View Post
    What's the warm up time on this? Looking at it or the Leva.
    A little faster then an HX E61 machine where you are looking at a good 25min to 30min before heat Equilabrium is achieved throughout the machine.

    On the Duetto it is about 15min.
    Boiler pressure will rise fairly quickly but it takes time for the heat to transfer through to the group head .

    Cheers
    Antony
    www.casaespresso.com.au
    Last edited by Casa Espresso; 28th July 2018 at 09:49 AM.

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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    I can confirm this, it heats up pretty quick and if you really are on a time limit if you heat it up for approx 10 min where it will reach 93 degrees and then run some water through it the temp will drop down to about 85 degrees but return to 93 degrees pretty quickly and ive personally found you are pretty good from there.

    Chris
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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coffeechris View Post
    I can confirm this, it heats up pretty quick and if you really are on a time limit if you heat it up for approx 10 min where it will reach 93 degrees and then run some water through it the temp will drop down to about 85 degrees but return to 93 degrees pretty quickly and ive personally found you are pretty good from there.

    Chris
    If you're in a hurry just about any E61 machine will benefit from a few seconds of "hot flush" after the initial heat-up to temp (set temp reached on PID or light off non-PID). This gets heat into the E61 grouphead sooner. After 1 or 2 flushes though, the machine still needs to sit for a bit to equalise/stabilise temps throughout.

    There's a line of thought that brew boilers with PID shouldn't be insulated so that any temp overshoot corrects itself more quickly due to boiler heat loss. This gets it back under PID heating control sooner, keeping it tightly in the desired brew temp "zone". The Alex Duetto IV is an example of this philosophy with an uninsulated Brew Boiler and an insulated Steam Boiler.

    On a personal note, having used an E61 grouphead thermometer for the last few weeks on a non-PID Single boiler E61 machine, I can see the benefits of the 1 or 2 initial flushes to get to a stable working temperature quicker. On a single boiler though, it can also work against you. Overflushing can temporarily overheat the E61 grouphead. On mine which uses a capillary thermostat temp probe inside a thermowell , it can also temporarily drop the internal boiler temp below desired brew temp levels. This corrects itself after leaving some time for temperature to equalise/stabilise again but you would never know exactly what was causing the shot variation without an E61 grouphead thermometer. I imagine this characteristic lead to the non-PID E61 Single boilers falling out of favour. If they came with a brew water temp thermometer as standard, it may have helped. Its nowhere near as good as having a PID but does give some insights which can lead to better results by modifying your start-up and brewing routine.

    The Alex Duetto IV seems to tick a hell of a lot of boxes and the quick heat-up time is just another!

  49. #49
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post

    There's a line of thought that brew boilers with PID shouldn't be insulated so that any temp overshoot corrects itself more quickly due to boiler heat loss. This gets it back under PID heating control sooner, keeping it tightly in the desired brew temp "zone".
    That shouldn't be necessary if the PID is well tuned. If it happens the first thing to do is to turn the "I" parameter down.
    spin_addict likes this.

  50. #50
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrebird View Post
    That shouldn't be necessary if the PID is well tuned. If it happens the first thing to do is to turn the "I" parameter down.
    It seems like a lot of thought has gone into the design of the Duetto IV. The pre-heated water refilling the brew boiler as well as the uninsulated brew boiler (easy and cheap enough to add insulation if they thought it neccessary) seems to indicate they did a lot of testing before settling on this design. I'm happy to assume for this machine they found the right balance.
    coffeechris likes this.

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