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Thread: Profitec 700 or 800

  1. #1
    NJD
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    Profitec 700 or 800

    Hello fellow coffee lovers . I am chasing some info from the gurus on this site . I am looking at a new machine and have been for sometime however I dont want to rush so am trying to learn, listen and read as much as I can before making my purchase. That said I do like the profitec machines and I have a liking for the lever machines for a difference I guess . They also have very good reviews from what I have read.

    So i am tossing up between the 700 dual boiler and the 800 Lever machine. I think they will be both great machines for home use and produce great coffee which is what I am chasing . I just have a couple of questions .

    The Profitec 800 has a copper boiler, this is said to be because of the movement during the force applied from the lever. What is everyones opinions on that ?? Moving metal joints dont last is my experience , stress cracks are the results??

    The 700 has stainless boilers . Anyone have a opinion on stainless over copper for any reason??

    I guess I am more keen on the profitec 800 for the look on my kitchen bench and the general opinion is the lever machines with the pressure profiling may produce a better shot quality??

    Any advice would be a great help . Thanks!!!!

  2. #2
    Senior Member WhatEverBeansNecessary's Avatar
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    Hi NJD, welcome to the forum.


    First, I have the Pro 800 and love it to bits. But owning a lever isn't for everyone. I had a La Pavoni Europicolla for over a year before making the leap to something bigger. If you have a spouse/kids/guests that want to use the machine there is a little bit of learning curve, it's not as easy as a normal machine to use. I don't mind as rarely would I have guests make their own coffee and I am more than happy to make 6 or more coffees at a time for them. My wife also knows how to use the machine, but hasn't invested the time to really nail the fine tuning of the grinder, tamping or finess that comes with the lever. If you are thinking about the lever path I would think about the practicality first and maybe look at something small like La Pavoni. Some people get one because of the 'old school cool' factor only to realise they don't like using it.


    About the flexing of the metal - I don't think this is an issue. There are some (very limited number and it voids the warranty) cafes that use them and will pull 1000x more shots than I will ever do with mine and I haven't heard of any stress related failures.... yet.

    Keep in mind the Pro 800 is a large machine with a large footprint. Add in a grinder and tamping station and you are looking at nearly a meter of bench space gone. Also the handle is high so it really can't go underneath cupboards unless they are very very high (like 70+ cm gap).

    The Pro 800 has many great features:
    You don't need to plumb in - although you can.
    PID for adjusting the temp of the boiler
    Great steaming pressure for milk and can steam/pull a shot at once
    Single, double and triple basket
    Single spout, double spout and naked portafilters as standard

    And a few negatives:
    Large footprint
    The stainless looks nice but can be a pain in the ass to clean
    Takes a long time to heat up to correct temp (not an issue if you put it on a timer and have coffee at semi regular times during the day)
    Like most sprung levers it tends tends to cool a little (despite the thermo syphon) and you will need to flush the group head before pulling your first shot
    The PID is behind the drip tray - so you don't see when the machine is still heating/is at steady state temp (not really a problem if you have a timer)
    The styling is pretty basic - another square shiny box (not an issue for me)

    All in all I think it is one of the best levers on the market right now and the build quality is really outstanding. The looks are a bit understated compared to some other modern levers, but I like the clean look. You will need a good grinder as most levers require a relatively fine consitent grind compared to a normal pump driven machine. I have had mine for a bit over 6 months and wouldn't dream of another machine... just yet.

    Happy to answer any other question you have about the Pro 800 - but I have never used the Pro 700.
    Last edited by WhatEverBeansNecessary; 28th March 2018 at 09:55 AM. Reason: Formatting
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  3. #3
    NJD
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
    Hi NJD, welcome to the forum.


    First, I have the Pro 800 and love it to bits. But owning a lever isn't for everyone. I had a La Pavoni Europicolla for over a year before making the leap to something bigger. If you have a spouse/kids/guests that want to use the machine there is a little bit of learning curve, it's not as easy as a normal machine to use. I don't mind as rarely would I have guests make their own coffee and I am more than happy to make 6 or more coffees at a time for them. My wife also knows how to use the machine, but hasn't invested the time to really nail the fine tuning of the grinder, tamping or finess that comes with the lever. If you are thinking about the lever path I would think about the practicality first and maybe look at something small like La Pavoni. Some people get one because of the 'old school cool' factor only to realise they don't like using it.


    About the flexing of the metal - I don't think this is an issue. There are some (very limited number and it voids the warranty) cafes that use them and will pull 1000x more shots than I will ever do with mine and I haven't heard of any stress related failures.... yet.

    Keep in mind the Pro 800 is a large machine with a large footprint. Add in a grinder and tamping station and you are looking at nearly a meter of bench space gone. Also the handle is high so it really can't go underneath cupboards unless they are very very high (like 70+ cm gap).

    The Pro 800 has many great features:
    You don't need to plumb in - although you can.
    PID for adjusting the temp of the boiler
    Great steaming pressure for milk and can steam/pull a shot at once
    Single, double and triple basket
    Single spout, double spout and naked portafilters as standard

    And a few negatives:
    Large footprint
    The stainless looks nice but can be a pain in the ass to clean
    Takes a long time to heat up to correct temp (not an issue if you put it on a timer and have coffee at semi regular times during the day)
    Like most sprung levers it tends tends to cool a little (despite the thermo syphon) and you will need to flush the group head before pulling your first shot
    The PID is behind the drip tray - so you don't see when the machine is still heating/is at steady state temp (not really a problem if you have a timer)
    The styling is pretty basic - another square shiny box (not an issue for me)

    All in all I think it is one of the best levers on the market right now and the build quality is really outstanding. The looks are a bit understated compared to some other modern levers, but I like the clean look. You will need a good grinder as most levers require a relatively fine consitent grind compared to a normal pump driven machine. I have had mine for a bit over 6 months and wouldn't dream of another machine... just yet.

    Happy to answer any other question you have about the Pro 800 - but I have never used the Pro 700.

    Hey thanks for the review and advice.

    I am trying to get to a dealer for a play before I buy but living remotely will add sometime to being able to get that done. I understand the foot print size but kitchen size is no issue for me so all good there.
    Yeah i understand the stainless cleaning issue , but I guess that comes with the territory with nice shiny toys!!!I will just have to enjoy more great coffee to get me through the cleaning . I am thinking of the profitec T64 grinder which seems to have really good reviews but at that price range I think most machines will do a fine job. I like the grub screw drive adjustment compared to a collar set up , also the 2 machines will match when on display.

    I guess all machines have their pros and cons however I am wanting to get this as a long term machine and investment. it is hard as there are many good machines on the market and getting to see feel touch and use them can be difficult. It would make the spend a bit easier if those things were more easily available.

    I guess the big wants for me in my set up is quality , value for money, easier maintenance should I have an issue . But most of all the ability to have awesome coffee at home as its not readily available where I live .

    Thanks again for your help appreciate it !!

  4. #4
    Senior Member WhatEverBeansNecessary's Avatar
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    Well I think Profitec has build quality in spades and if you plumb the machine in there is no pump - near silent operation and don't have to worry about maintenance on the pump itself.

    The T64 would be a great combo, I am thinking about one myself to complete the look. The stainless really isn't an issue if you don't mind polishing it here and there.

    I would definitely recommend a play first. Most places will let you pull a shot and show you the basics as long as you aren't there 5 mins to closing time

  5. #5
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    Microfibre cloths makes it easier to keep the stainless looking amazing. I also have these stainless wipes, they are a bit oily, but work pretty good. From cleaning aisle of coles or woolies.

  6. #6
    Senior Member WhatEverBeansNecessary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackster View Post
    Microfibre cloths makes it easier to keep the stainless looking amazing. I also have these stainless wipes, they are a bit oily, but work pretty good. From cleaning aisle of coles or woolies.
    Agree, a little stainless cleaner/wipes goes a long way. But a bit of elbow grease and they do make it sparkle.

  7. #7
    NJD
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    So whats peoples opinions on the shot quality difference between the profitec 700 and 800 . Is the pressure profiling and pre infusion a massive difference? I know there are many variables to a quality shot but would like to know the simple difference 1 machine gives over the other. In my mind the pressure profiling would make a difference but thats just my thinking . If the extra $$ for the 800 is worth it then no problems but it has to be justified. The rotary pump on the 700 I like because I wont be plumbing in for sometime so rotary will be quieter. They both have the long warm up time which is fine , I'll be putting it on timer so job done there!! Like I said in previous post I love the look of the 800 on the bench over the 700 but is it worth the money and the noise of the pump. I can handle the pump difference , if the shot quality is noticably ahead of the 700.

    Thanks

  8. #8
    Senior Member WhatEverBeansNecessary's Avatar
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    I think you will struggle to find many people who have used both machines, let alone spent a significant time pulling shots from both. Any chance you can duck in a see the site sponsors for some hands on?
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  9. #9
    NJD
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    Unfortunately no . I was in brisbane last week an visited a machine supplier and they had displayed the 700 but no 800 and no ability to have it put to use . Secondly the chance to talk to the staff was pretty average not much information could be given which was disappointing for me . I will keep reading and looking for the chance to get to see them both in action if the purchase doesnt get the better of me in the meantime. Thanks

  10. #10
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
    I think you will struggle to find many people who have used both machines, let alone spent a significant time pulling shots from both. Any chance you can duck in a see the site sponsors for some hands on?
    Especially on this forum.

  11. #11
    338
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    NJD, without preferring one sponsor over another, I would probably call Charlie of Jetblack Espresso who are the importers. He could give you a detailed analysis of the differences between the two and possibly refer you to a dealer up your way if there was one. I, who haven't owned either, didn't look at one better than the other but rather different paths to the end result.

  12. #12
    Member Grillsy's Avatar
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    There must be someone up North with Profitec. Hunt around and find a place to get your hands on one or if you can’t trawl the Tube for video reviews where they dissect the machinery. I watched hours and hours of YouTube before committing.
    Good luck mate

  13. #13
    NJD
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    I have watched nearly all the 700 and 800 videos available but sometimes users have the best advice not covered in videos. Its been great to hear others opinions so thank you.I'll be sure to post some of my opinions on which ever machine I go with . Thanks everyone

  14. #14
    Senior Member Arcade's Avatar
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    Haven't tried both but friend of mine has the 700 and then just had a coffee on my 800. He asked if you can put a lever handle on the 700 I had a laugh, as he adored the coffee. He's thinking of changing. I love mine and have come from an ECM Giotto and then Elektra MCaL. If you wipe any coffee spray after use each time with a cloth then polish fast with microfibre, then I don't find cleaning an issue.

  15. #15
    NJD
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    That's been my roadblock . I have read so much about the quality of the shots from the 800 but I do like the dual boiler , the rotary pump over the vibe , the ss boiler over copper however I do like the look and feel of the lever machine . That said I am now settled on the 800 . I'm sold . Thanks everyone for your input it helps no end to get users experiences with the machines in question.

    Now thats settled its time to find a grinder to finish the set up .

  16. #16
    338
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    NJD, will you be the only user? The reason I ask is like you I love the look and features of the 800 and spent a few visits looking at it in the showroom. I then tried the lever. While not ridiculously heavy I suddenly realised my 50kg wife was not going to be happy at 05.30 using a lever. Went through the obvious thoughts like two machines till I realised how stupid that sounds for two people, so presently no 800 for me. Just thought I would mention it in case it was an issue for you as it sounds like you haven't touched one yet.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Beanz.'s Avatar
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    There were a lot of levers being used in cafes every day by very small ladies in years gone by
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  18. #18
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    The effort is passion-driven.

    A less-than-coffee-passionate 50kg wife would most likely see lever espresso making as a chore (and too difficult)....but a coffee-passionate 50kg wife would love the process too...and have no problem cocking the lever on a modern spring lever machine.
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  19. #19
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    Modern (and vintage) levers are fun and rewarding.

    Just look at the face of the lady in Beanz' post #17...she is in the groove!
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJD View Post
    That's been my roadblock . I have read so much about the quality of the shots from the 800 but I do like the dual boiler , the rotary pump over the vibe , the ss boiler over copper however I do like the look and feel of the lever machine . That said I am now settled on the 800 . I'm sold . Thanks everyone for your input it helps no end to get users experiences with the machines in question.

    Now thats settled its time to find a grinder to finish the set up .
    Keep in mind that the pump on the Pro 800 is just there to fill the boiler. If you plumb it, mains pressure will fill the boiler so there is no pump noise at all.

    The Pro T64 and Pro 800 make a pretty good combo both in terms of performance and aesthetics!

    charlie

  21. #21
    NJD
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    Haha my partner i small but maybe her 55kg will get that lever moving ?? She will be fine but mostly it will be myself using it . Thanks for the heads up though. She is now coffee addicted also so I'm sure she will make it happen 1 way or another.

  22. #22
    Senior Member WhatEverBeansNecessary's Avatar
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    I think the lever issue with someone smaller is a little over stated. Likely she will have maybe 2-3 cups a day? And maybe you would make maybe 1-2 of these for her? I think it might be a problem if she was making 30+ coffees an hour at a busy cafe, she would soon feel the strain in her arm/back.

    My wife has no problem pulling the lever and lifting it back up, but she did struggle a little on the La Pavoni. Another popular UK based coffee forum estimate the Londinium force required to compress the lever at about 12kg at the lever arm, so no problems really when using your body weight.

  23. #23
    338
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    WBN, my point might have been unclear. I dont think it would be the strain, in my wife's case the very first thing when getting out of bed is make herself a coffee. I was more meaning the effort and concentration required before being fully awake would annoy her, totally get that others ( myself included) won't mind and something to be aware of if the op hasn't touched the machine. In my case what would be annoying is my wife waking me up to make her coffee!

  24. #24
    Senior Member WhatEverBeansNecessary's Avatar
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    Haha, no worries!

    I guess you would get that with any machine bar a fully automatic push button

  25. #25
    Senior Member Beanz.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    .... In my case what would be annoying is my wife waking me up to make her coffee!
    You have underestimated the fun factor, you will be out of bed before her just so you can use the machine.

    And another photo for you this time from Pompei

    There is a Profitec 800 out there with your name on it !
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  26. #26
    Member Grillsy's Avatar
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    G’day NJD,
    I did a hunt and found this massive coffeesnobs thread on the Pro 800.
    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sha...0&share_type=t
    Damn you (just a bit) for making me think about a lever now !!!
    Grillsy bear

  27. #27
    Member Grillsy's Avatar
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    To lever or not to lever, that is the question and it’s a first world problem if ever I have seen one ☝️
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  28. #28
    Senior Member Beanz.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paolo View Post
    The effort is passion-driven.

    A less-than-coffee-passionate 50kg wife would most likely see lever espresso making as a chore (and too difficult)....but a coffee-passionate 50kg wife would love the process too...and have no problem cocking the lever on a modern spring lever machine.
    The café in Pompei I posted earlier was in fact the Passion Café
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  29. #29
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    My other half has no issues with using our Quickmill Achille, which has the same basic group as the Profitec 800 (but perhaps a stronger spring). She's not sub-50kgs but she's not a giant either.

  30. #30
    NJD
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    Grillsy my issue as well to much thinking and to many options but boy it's fun looking for new toys !!!!!!

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