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Thread: Pro700 / Synchronika steaming upgrade

  1. #1
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    Pro700 / Synchronika steaming upgrade

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Just saw this on YouTube. Thereís an upgraded PID and valve for these machines that bumps up steam pressure to 2 bar!

    New units being manufactured from about now apparently have the upgrade fitted, and it will be possible to retrofit existing machines with a kit. The kit will be available soon.

    https://youtu.be/1dlNkWFsAIQ

  2. #2
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    Thatís an awesome idea but can the boiler handle that sort pressure? I can see an expressoplosion happening. Maybe ??

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grillsy View Post
    Thatís an awesome idea but can the boiler handle that sort pressure? I can see an expressoplosion happening. Maybe ??
    Well itís a factory upgrade, and is now standard fitment, so it looks like the engineering department are comfortable with it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Jackster's Avatar
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    Its a 7psi increase. The boilers minimum test pressure will be at least 3 bar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    Well itís a factory upgrade, and is now standard fitment, so it looks like the engineering department are comfortable with it.
    OK, now thatís really excellent. Time for me to watch the video tonight me thinks.

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    Preorder info just got posted to HB as per below. $225 USD and arriving in May. Apparently they'll put up a DIY installation video on youtube.

    The Pro700 and Synchronika kits are interchangeable, so if you prefer the blue or silver PID readout you can choose.

    ==============
    Hello everyone! We're very excited to announce that pre-orders are open for the ECM Synchronika & Profitec Pro 700 PID Upgrade Kits. They'll be arriving in May, so make sure you get one before everyone else does.

    With one of these gadgets installed, you can steam at 2 bar and you can really feel the difference. This steam blasts. The new PIDs are already built-in to new Pro 700s and Synchronikas shipping now, but if you have one of these machines already, you won't have to feel left behind. Plus, these PIDs work on either machine, so you can have the look you want if you have a preference. Keep a look out for a new video from us showing off the additional features of the new PIDs and how to install them, coming soon!

  7. #7
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Wouldn't mind changing the PID display (my V1 Synchronika came with the standard black unit), but I've found steaming power better than sufficient especially since moving to a 3-hole tip. I guess if you were regularly preparing coffee for large groups it might be worth the coin...

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    Ill be in the market for a Synchronika soon, I wonder if Aus will be getting this update and when will it be available?
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  9. #9
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    This upgrade is just too late for me.
    I grabbed a Pro 500 but if this mod had been around I would have gone for the Pro 700 for sure as that steam pressure is unreal.
    The Pro 500s great though so I donít see myself changing over any time soon (as in next 5-10 yrs! plus)
    Grrrrilsyyyyy
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  10. #10
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    Any suppliers get stock of the upgraded parts yet? if so, hit me up

  11. #11
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    On their way. We should have these next week

    charlie
    jetblackespresso.com.au

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    I was never happy with the out of the box steaming power when I purchased my machine. I upgraded to a larger diameter 2 hole tip which was a big improvement.
    Lately the steaming efficiency has been quite poor despite what I thought was a good cleaning regime. I thought about drilling 3rd hole but decided to give the holes a more thorough clean with a metal implement. Wow what a difference, I have halved the steaming time to less than the time it takes to pull a shot.
    No inclination to consider this overpriced upgrade now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbo1111 View Post
    I was never happy with the out of the box steaming power when I purchased my machine. I upgraded to a larger diameter 2 hole tip which was a big improvement.
    Lately the steaming efficiency has been quite poor despite what I thought was a good cleaning regime. I thought about drilling 3rd hole but decided to give the holes a more thorough clean with a metal implement. Wow what a difference, I have halved the steaming time to less than the time it takes to pull a shot.
    No inclination to consider this overpriced upgrade now.
    I’m just about to drop 4 grand on an ECM syncro on the basis that this is a well engineered product and an upgrade on my VBM Domobar. Sounds like you are a tad underwhelmed? Apart from steaming are you happy to share your overall experience as so far I haven’t detected any performance issues.

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    As he mentioned, as long as you periodically clean the steam tip (like you should with any machine), the steaming power is solid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warmtone View Post
    Iím just about to drop 4 grand on an ECM syncro on the basis that this is a well engineered product and an upgrade on my VBM Domobar. Sounds like you are a tad underwhelmed? Apart from steaming are you happy to share your overall experience as so far I havenít detected any performance issues.
    hi mate, my machine hasn't missed a beat since I've owned it, which is about 9 months now.
    its easy to be critical when you fork out $4k and then have to buy another steam tip. I expected the machine would either come with a couple of tips, suitable for small and large milk volumes, or the shop would have alerted me to the fact that the supplied tip was only good for small volumes. I actually swap tips quite regularly based on milk volume.
    Anyhow I certainly have no regrets buying it, my only regret is not plumbing it yet. I'm drawing water through a Bombora under sink filter and the mushroom is still as clean as new.
    If you have any other questions feel free to ask

  16. #16
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    Upps... we still have one Synchronika left with the new upgrade if any one is interested.

    Renzo
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  17. #17
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    Received my parts for the upgrade today and fitted them. Install took a little longer than I thought it would, also didn't realise I also needed the new 2.5Bar relief valve. Also didn't realise once you install it you get the "FIL" code come up and require to input the updated PID settings. Some install instructions would have been good....

    Thanks to Jet Black for the parts
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  18. #18
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    I received my parts and installed them yesterday too. Thanks JetBlack!

    I followed the instructions on the Clive coffee site. I wish I'd known beforehand that it's a bit more fiddly than it looks on the videos, and having _flared_ spanners (especially 21mm) really helps. I thought I'd get by with an adjustable wrench, but that turned out not to be the case - things are a bit too tight. A trip to the hardware store later, and I was back on track.

    The "FIL" code threw me for a bit too, but after working my way through the clive coffee settings guide, I got it all sorted.

    I'm _really_ happy with the upgrade now though. The combination of the higher temperature/pressure, and the more aggressive PID configuration for the steam boiler seems to have made a huge difference. Highly recommended upgrade.

  19. #19
    Senior Member rusty888's Avatar
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    What was the end cost ?

  20. #20
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    Total was approx $300 AUD..

  21. #21
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    Thanks. Seems steep for just some extra steam. 8% of machine cost approx.

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    Perhaps. I guess we all have our hobbies in my case I wanted to replace the PID because some of the LED segments had failed, and the steam upgrade made it worthwhile to do. That said, paying $300 to fix a few broken LED segments even with a steam upgrade is probably a questionable decision for some too. *shrug*

  23. #23
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    Yeah I completely get it. My synkronika isnít 9 months old and I can justify it just yet tbh.

    My led is fine so Iíll wait til something goes wrong there.

  24. #24
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    I grabbed a 4 hole tip at the same time (currently using 2 hole tip with third hole drilled). The 4 hole is almost too much steam, will go back to the 3 hole I think.

  25. #25
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    There's something wrong with the intrinsic design and engineering of a machine, if after such a short time, you feel the need to upgrade aspects of its operating performance in one or more areas.

    For example, my last twin boiler machine was capable of excellent performance in both key areas of texturing milk and wonderful espresso. Stretching ~300ml of milk with perfect, glossy microfoam took approx. 15 seconds - Every time. Espresso pours were always spot-on to suit my palate also and in my case, that was 45-50g from 24g of coffee. To get the machine to this point from initial delivery to our house, took all of 2-3 days of fine tuning and thereafter, was where it stayed. Brew water temperature was occasionally adjusted to suit roast batches where I missed the ideal roast profile but in all cases, never more than +/- 1.5Deg.C from a midpoint of 92Deg.C...

    I guess the point I'm trying to make is, get to know the operating characteristics of your machine by testing its limits and then start to zero in on a setup that allows your machine to perform as you want, without spending additional money on "improvements" that are probably not even necessary...

    Mal.

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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    There's something wrong with the intrinsic design and engineering of a machine, if after such a short time, you feel the need to upgrade aspects of its operating performance in one or more areas.
    As a long-time 'hacker' (in the original sense of the word), I prefer to see it another way. There's something really _good_ about the intrinsic design and engineering of a machine if it's serviceable and upgradable and capable of doing things beyond it's original design specifications with relatively minor modifications. That you can take a great machine and easily make it better justifies my original investment even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    I guess the point I'm trying to make is, get to know the operating characteristics of your machine by testing its limits and then start to zero in on a setup that allows your machine to perform as you want, without spending additional money on "improvements" that are probably not even necessary...
    We'll have to agree to disagree here. In my world view, just because something works - even if it works well - it doesn't mean that it can't or shouldn't be made even better. Continuous improvement is the name of the game.

    I love my Synchronika. I loved it before the upgrade. I love it even more now

    D.
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  27. #27
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    Upgrade totally not required. I was happy with the milk before but i'm just one of those people who these type of improvements appeal to. I was more than happy with the steam power and frothing speed with the steam temp set at 127 deg prior to the upgrade.

  28. #28
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    I guess that to many the extra steam pressure is a nice to have and not a have to have. To others (inc me) itís more of a very very very nice to have :-)
    Grillsy

  29. #29
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    Yeah I donít know the difference but as mine is itís fine. For sub 100 I would take the gamble and see whatís its like.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundy View Post
    As a long-time 'hacker' (in the original sense of the word), I prefer to see it another way. There's something really _good_ about the intrinsic design and engineering of a machine if it's serviceable and upgradable and capable of doing things beyond it's original design specifications with relatively minor modifications. That you can take a great machine and easily make it better justifies my original investment even more.



    We'll have to agree to disagree here. In my world view, just because something works - even if it works well - it doesn't mean that it can't or shouldn't be made even better. Continuous improvement is the name of the game.

    I love my Synchronika. I loved it before the upgrade. I love it even more now

    D.
    Indeed...

    We'll have to agree to disagree on several points.

    Mal.

  31. #31
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    Pro700 / Synchronika steaming upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    There's something wrong with the intrinsic design and engineering of a machine, if after such a short time, you feel the need to upgrade aspects of its operating performance in one or more areas.

    .
    Not really the case at all when you think about it.

    People buy Porsche 911ís then take it to a tuner for various performance upgrades.

    Youíd hardly say thereís much wrong with the engineering of a modern 911.

    Never underestimate the hobbyistsí desire for upgrades, whether itís a high end car or espresso machine.

    I think this was a smart move by ECM/Profitec. They have read the enthusiast market well.
    Last edited by herzog; 9th September 2018 at 07:51 AM.

  32. #32
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    I think you have missed my meaning or maybe I presented it in a less than a clear fashion...

    Either way, we'll still have to agree to disagree...

    Mal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    I think this was a smart move by ECM/Profitec. They have read the enthusiast market well.
    I have to agree Herzog.
    This isnít a case of fixing a problem that was caused by poor design or engineering. This is a case of ECM and Profitec doing something no other manufacturer has done (as for as I know) by increasing pressure to commercial pressure.
    Back to the analogy. This is like adding a turbo to a 911. The 911 is awesome but if Porsche decides to improve it by adding a turbo Iíll have the one with the turbo thanks
    Grillsy
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  34. #34
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    For the guys who have done this upgrade has your pump become a lot more noisy? my pump is more than double as noisy as what it used to be . Wondering if that is normal or if my pump is on the way out? flow and pressure seems to be normal though

  35. #35
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    Hi bowser. I'm not sure if you've found the problem or not yet, but it's possible that it's the capacitor in the machine vibrating on the frame. Clive coffee has a guide to adjusting it. https://clivecoffee.zendesk.com/hc/e...otor-Capacitor
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  36. #36
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    Gundy,
    Thanks a million, not 100% correct but it lead me to an answer. My machine doesn't have that capacitor but i did notice with the left panel off the pump become normal. I then played around moving things and found the pump made a heap of noise if the thing that runs parallel to the tank to the Tx valve was moved. I eventually found a sweet spot which allowed the side panel to be reinstalled and the pump stay quiet.

    Pump is back to 9 Bar and sounding sweet. I was ready to buy a new pump
    appreciate your help
    Dimal and level3ninja like this.

  37. #37
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    I recently upgraded to the Synchronika 2018 model from a rancillio silvia to say I happy with the purchase is an understatement and the steam pressure is a big part of it.
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  38. #38
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    The Silvia's steam quality is probably its weakest point so that's hardly surprising.



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