Results 1 to 30 of 30
Like Tree20Likes
  • 1 Post By Rosscoz
  • 1 Post By Dimal
  • 4 Post By chokkidog
  • 3 Post By Yelta
  • 2 Post By JetBlack_Espresso
  • 1 Post By JetBlack_Espresso
  • 1 Post By CafeLotta
  • 2 Post By herzog
  • 1 Post By saeco_user
  • 2 Post By Barry O'Speedwagon
  • 2 Post By chokkidog

Thread: Someone Convince Me!

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    5

    Someone Convince Me!

    I better indroduce myself, this is my first post. I've often viewed the site for reviews, fix it info etc, and especially for where to find a good coffee when I'm travelling.
    I've been a coffee fan for as long as I was allowed to drink it, and slowly but surely, making it is starting to become one of life's passions.

    I had a Sunbeam EM6910 for a few years until it died, and then bought a Breville Dual boiler (BES900)when they first came and were a lot dearer (Damn it). I've had it for 6 years (and 2 solenoids) and the solenoid has just died again. Other than that the machine hasn't missed a beat. $128 bucks for a replacement and a 10min job to do it its not to bad a problem.

    The coffee that comes out of it is pretty on par with most cafe's and better that a bad café coffee, especially since I upgraded to a good quality flat burr grinder. But definitely not the "God" Shot I've had a better coffee shops in Sydney and Melbourne. I could probable put up with that with the odd BES coming up at @900 bucks it is a lot of bang for you dollar, despite being a little unreliable.

    That said, I'm itching with upgraditus and have a few more coins behind me that when I first started out. I'm thinking of spending 3.5K maybe 4 K if the extra few dollars seems definitely worth it.

    Obviously there have been similar threads in the past, and if anyone wants to post a link to one that would be great.

    What I would like is a some suggestions for better quality machines that do everything the BES does.
    I run a business and would like to make good coffees for clients etc, so here's my requirements:
    • Not to slow to start up, if visitors or clients pop in, I don't want to serve instant unless they have half and hour to wait for the machine to warm up.
    • I want to be able to make half a dozen coffees without things getting too hot or cold
    • I would like to be able to steam and press a shot at the same time
    • The ability to play around with shot timing and profiling as my skills increase.


    I'm open to suggestions or persuasions from sponsors or suppliers.

    Thanks.

    P.S If you are looking for a great coffee in Coffs Harbour, Try "O.P 81" in Coffs Harbour or "Riviera" in Woolgoolga
    Dimal likes this.

  2. #2
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    15,889
    Welcome Rosscoz...

    Can't help you with your query but I'm sure someone will be along in short order to give you some ideas.

    Mal.
    Yelta likes this.

  3. #3
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    2,049
    With up to 4K you're right in the zone.... but does that include a new grinder or do you already have something up to par.

    You will get plenty of fan mail about which machine to buy but if you look along the lines of a Rocket you won't go wrong. If you

    check out Rick Bond at Coffeemachinist (site sponsor) and have a look at his instagram page @coffeemachinist and specifically his latest custom Rocket job you should be able to follow a path to

    another site that 'talks' about 'coffee' and has some great info and also retail options.

    The machine warm up thing is a bit baffling ......turn it on in the morning and off at night, rather than on and off when you want to use it, most good machines have a high thermal mass

    and take 30-40 minutes to warm up but will be temp stable and have excellent temp recovery for repeat shots.

    Shot profiling? That's something else altogether and be sure that it's what you want. It may make the 'god shot' even more elusive than you think.....

    There is a new Rocket (R9) coming out this year that may be worth a look if you want to pursue geek level profiling. Remember .... there is plenty of tweaking already available through

    micro adjustments of already established parameters.
    Dimal, Yelta, DaveD and 1 others like this.

  4. #4
    Senior Member rusty888's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    164
    From what your coming from I think the biggest thing is do you want volumetric or not. If yes then you will severely limit your choices.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Rockingham W.A.
    Posts
    1,122
    G'day Rosscoz

    The grinder is way more important than the machine until you get into the stratospheric pricing zone or buy a Cremina manual lever (and even they will be around your budget these days). So I suggest you start by upgrading your grinder (unless you already have a top quality grinder sitting next to your machine). FWIW, I own three Mahlkonig Varios (one with the optional steel burrs), so if your grinder is not up to that standard I suggest you put it on your upgrade list. That will make a lot more difference in the cup compared to any "machine upgrade" at this time.

    New machine - like most CS'r's I admit to being biassed so the only machine I would consider a sanely priced upgrade to what you have is a DE1 (site sponsor) https://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-e...-thoughts.html is the CS thread, however there are plenty of other threads around the planet. They are still in development / early models shipping stage and a trickle of reviews are starting to appear.

    Hope this helps


    TampIt

  6. #6
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    5,928
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Welcome Rosscoz...

    Can't help you with your query but I'm sure someone will be along in short order to give you some ideas.

    Mal.
    And that someone just happened to be Chokkidog, well done.
    Dimal, chokkidog and DaveD like this.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    419

    Someone Convince Me!

    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    The machine warm up thing is a bit baffling ......turn it on in the morning and off at night, rather than on and off when you want to use it, most good machines have a high thermal mass.
    Fully agree with this bit. You really should drop the fast startup requirement. Any decent machine in this range is designed to be left on all day, and will, by design have a 30 minute warmup.

    The bonus is that you’ll have a supply of near boiling water available on-demand which can be used for anything you’d use a kettle for. (Tea, cup a soup)

    As for what machine, look at ECM/Profitec and Rocket. What grinder will you use?

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    fairly static
    Posts
    62
    Slow startup is a function of the mass in the group head and portafilter, providing thermal stability for the excellent coffee you desire, as implied by the above posters when they say "it takes time". If you are hit by a coffee request when you first open your doors then the best cheating option is to pull hot water through the group as soon as you have normal steam pressure, but even then, it is far from instant. It merely takes maybe ten minutes off the nominal wait time but is not ideal; it is normally acknowledged that it is better to soak it properly.

    You will get to the office before a client turns up, I expect. Switch it on when you walk in the door, let it heat-soak in peace, be in peace yourself knowing they will love your coffee . Machines Herzog suggested will do it for you.

    I suggest a hopper-based grinder which times or weighs your shot because you want to be efficient making the coffee, not distracting your client from your business by fiddling with scales, single doses and the like.
    Last edited by beensean; 4 Days Ago at 07:43 AM. Reason: paragraphing

  9. #9
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Frenchs Forest NSW
    Posts
    712
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosscoz View Post
    I better indroduce myself, this is my first post. I've often viewed the site for reviews, fix it info etc, and especially for where to find a good coffee when I'm travelling.
    I've been a coffee fan for as long as I was allowed to drink it, and slowly but surely, making it is starting to become one of life's passions.

    I had a Sunbeam EM6910 for a few years until it died, and then bought a Breville Dual boiler (BES900)when they first came and were a lot dearer (Damn it). I've had it for 6 years (and 2 solenoids) and the solenoid has just died again. Other than that the machine hasn't missed a beat. $128 bucks for a replacement and a 10min job to do it its not to bad a problem.

    The coffee that comes out of it is pretty on par with most cafe's and better that a bad café coffee, especially since I upgraded to a good quality flat burr grinder. But definitely not the "God" Shot I've had a better coffee shops in Sydney and Melbourne. I could probable put up with that with the odd BES coming up at @900 bucks it is a lot of bang for you dollar, despite being a little unreliable.

    That said, I'm itching with upgraditus and have a few more coins behind me that when I first started out. I'm thinking of spending 3.5K maybe 4 K if the extra few dollars seems definitely worth it.

    Obviously there have been similar threads in the past, and if anyone wants to post a link to one that would be great.

    What I would like is a some suggestions for better quality machines that do everything the BES does.
    I run a business and would like to make good coffees for clients etc, so here's my requirements:
    • Not to slow to start up, if visitors or clients pop in, I don't want to serve instant unless they have half and hour to wait for the machine to warm up.
    • I want to be able to make half a dozen coffees without things getting too hot or cold
    • I would like to be able to steam and press a shot at the same time
    • The ability to play around with shot timing and profiling as my skills increase.


    I'm open to suggestions or persuasions from sponsors or suppliers.

    Thanks.

    P.S If you are looking for a great coffee in Coffs Harbour, Try "O.P 81" in Coffs Harbour or "Riviera" in Woolgoolga
    Hi Rosscoz,

    For your requirements of making half a dozen coffee before they get cold and steam and extract at the same time, you're after a Heat Exchanger(HX) or Dual boiler(DB) rather than a single boiler. Heat up speed from a cold start is better for the Dual boilers so if that is a requirement you may want to focus on the DBs. Shot timers are available on some brands including Profitec, ECM and Lelit. I'm not sure what "profiling" means to you in this case so you may want to elaborate, but the newly released Lelit Bianca has a manual pressure profiling paddle so you could consider that one. Another model which seems to tick all your boxes (except for profiling) is the soon to be available Profitec Pro 600 available from a few sponsors (including us).

    Happy to discuss options if you'd like. And welcome to CS!

    charlie

  10. #10
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Vic, Aust.
    Posts
    560
    Don't think you're going to find profiling in the price range you've quoted but the other requirements you have can also be happily met by a Profitec 700 or ECM Synchronika dual boiler.

    A PID Dual boiler allows more accurate control of Brew Temp than a HX machine even if it has a PID.

  11. #11
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    2,049
    A shot timer is an easy add on, a machine can be pimped so it's 'built in' .... once again, see Rick's work or a magnetic shot timer is available

    from other sources including site sponsors.
    Last edited by chokkidog; 3 Days Ago at 09:25 AM. Reason: typo

  12. #12
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Frenchs Forest NSW
    Posts
    712
    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    Don't think you're going to find profiling in the price range you've quoted but the other requirements you have can also be happily met by a Profitec 700 or ECM Synchronika dual boiler.

    A PID Dual boiler allows more accurate control of Brew Temp than a HX machine even if it has a PID.
    The new Lelit Bianca has pressure profiling (and DB, rotary pump, shot timer) for mid 3's

    charlie
    woodhouse and Grillsy like this.

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    5
    Thanks for the replies everyone!
    To answer a few questions, I'm happy with the grinder I have, (60mm flat burr).
    By profiling I mean being able to control the pressure and flow of the water through the puck. I don't work in the industry and definitely have a lot to learn, but you cant learn without experimenting I guess.

    One Question, If you leave the machines on all day, do they sit there semi boiling all day, or do they go to a "half on" stand by that doesn't chew up a heap of electricity?

    The Lelit Bianca does look great!
    That paddle system does look fairly easy to control.
    I was set on the Strega, but every review I read seems to change my mind one way or the other, and I do like the look of the Profitec 600. Or maybe even the 700 (That's the stretch to 4K that the misses would probably kill me for I mentioned )
    but yeah, seems you cant play with profiling with that.

    What sort of reputation for reliability do the Lelit's have?
    Last edited by Rosscoz; 3 Days Ago at 04:47 PM. Reason: spelling

  14. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    5
    I think I'm set on a DB from what I've researched

  15. #15
    Site Sponsor
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Frenchs Forest NSW
    Posts
    712
    Yes a DB sounds like a good fit for you. The Bianca has a standby mode too .

    charlie
    Rosscoz likes this.

  16. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    Yes a DB sounds like a good fit for you. The Bianca has a standby mode too .

    charlie
    That machine is sounding better all the time! I just wish it wasn’t so new. New tech often = teething problems...

  17. #17
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Vic, Aust.
    Posts
    560
    A Lelit Bianca review from overseas (UK). May or may not be some differences to the Australian version.

    https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordp.../lelit-bianca/

    Note profiling is achieved manually by a paddle mounted on top of the group and is not a digital pre-set.
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 3 Days Ago at 08:46 PM.
    Rosscoz likes this.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    132
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosscoz View Post
    By profiling I mean being able to control the pressure and flow of the water through the puck.
    Because of the types of pumps / motors used in most machines, this is surprisingly difficult to achieve and is basically restricted to very high end machines. The exception would appear to be Decent.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rosscoz View Post
    One Question, If you leave the machines on all day, do they sit there semi boiling all day, or do they go to a "half on" stand by that doesn't chew up a heap of electricity?
    Once the machine is idling at working temperatures the heater(s) only need to run to compensate for heat loss from the system, so the major determinant of standby power usage is boiler insulation. An E61 grouphead loses a fair bit of heat to ambient in normal conditions so this needs to be factored in.

    With reasonable boiler insulation a typical duty cycle would appear to be about 10% which would give an average draw of a couple of hundred watts or less for a standard machine.

    Obviously a dual boiler machine has two boilers losing heat to ambient so they'll draw more power on average.

    Again the exception is Decent, they use a totally different architecture from the mainstream machines.
    Last edited by Lyrebird; 3 Days Ago at 08:47 PM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    419
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosscoz View Post
    One Question, If you leave the machines on all day, do they sit there semi boiling all day, or do they go to a "half on" stand by that doesn't chew up a heap of electricity?
    Once up to temp, the average power draw is about 100watts or less, so about the same as a single incandescent light globe.

    I have the Profitec 700 which has insulated boilers and I run it through a smart timer switch that gives detailed power consumption data.
    saroadie and Rosscoz like this.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    209
    Quote Originally Posted by herzog View Post
    a single incandescent light globe.
    what's that?
    chokkidog likes this.

  21. #21
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    A Lelit Bianca review from overseas (UK). May or may not be some differences to the Australian version.

    https://coffeeequipmentreviews.wordp.../lelit-bianca/

    Note profiling is achieved manually by a paddle mounted on top of the group and is not a digital pre-set.

    Thanks for posting that, I'll have a read tonight when I get home from work :-)

  22. #22
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    PRL
    Posts
    2,415
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosscoz View Post
    P.S If you are looking for a great coffee in Coffs Harbour, Try "O.P 81" in Coffs Harbour or "Riviera" in Woolgoolga
    Having grown up in Coffs (and near Woolgoolga) I find that quite refreshing news.

    Would agree that a DB is the way to go given your preferences. Probably worth checking out who services what brands in the local area.
    Dimal and Rosscoz like this.

  23. #23
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    2,049
    And just when you thought pressure profiling was out of reach.......

    https://dailycoffeenews.com/2018/09/...y-any-machine/
    Dimal and 338 like this.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    132
    That device can measure the profile during a shot but you still won't have the means to control the flow rate with a standard machine.

  25. #25
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Vic, Aust.
    Posts
    560
    Very interesting to compare design and build quality of the Lelit Bianca and Profitec Pro 600 internally. Although the Lelit has a couple of interesting features like the manual pressure profiling paddle, the internal layout and routing of internal copper tubing and wiring just doesn't come close to the Profitec in my opinion. The Lelit chassis/frame isn't built nearly as strong to with-stand the rigours of shipping or rough handling as evidenced by the damage the UK reviewer mentions. Being in a similar price range, I think I know which I would prefer.

    Lelit Bianca internal - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW72A1SmQZ4

    Profitec Pro 600 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebdzV7dExa8

  26. #26
    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    174
    i currently use a flair - up until now i've not found anything that could replace it, as i like controlling flow rate into the puck. the decent was definitely the upgrade option until the bianca dropped. but now, the bianca can do everything i want with espresso, as well as bang out a few shots in a row, which is where the flair falls down.

  27. #27
    Junior Member Papanick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    Another model which seems to tick all your boxes (except for profiling) is the soon to be available Profitec Pro 600 available from a few sponsors (including us).
    Do you know when this will be available?

  28. #28
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Vic, Aust.
    Posts
    560
    Quote Originally Posted by Papanick View Post
    Do you know when this will be available?
    They are available now including from Site Sponsor JetBlack Espresso.

    https://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/...ofitec-pro-600

  29. #29
    Junior Member Papanick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by CafeLotta View Post
    They are available now including from Site Sponsor JetBlack Espresso.

    https://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/...ofitec-pro-600
    thanks, 28th Sept release date according to that page

  30. #30
    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Melbourne, Vic, Aust.
    Posts
    560
    Quote Originally Posted by Papanick View Post
    thanks, 28th Sept release date according to that page
    I was fairly sure they were previously shown as available. Thanks for the update. One of the retailers here in Melbourne has one as a personal use machine and loves it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •