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Thread: EsProfesso - interesting new machine

  1. #1
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    EsProfesso - interesting new machine

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Be interesting to hear some in depth reviews

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Looks to be another variation of a similar theme...

    Mal.

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    Woo hoo, another 7 day wonder, perhaps?

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    Senior Member JMcCee's Avatar
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    What's the other one?

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    I sometimes think that even though these new machines and tech is really cool, it perhaps could be taking the fun, flare and skill out of making a coffee.. and for me, thatís part of the reason why I got into drinking and making coffee in the first place..
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    EsProfesso - interesting new machine

    Mexican coffee machine.

    Apparently they busted the first few prototypes when someone put in refried pinto beans by mistake...

    Iíll grab my coat.
    Last edited by herzog; 1 Week Ago at 06:26 PM.
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    Senior Member Lyrebird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcCee View Post
    What's the other one?
    Assuming you are responding to Mal: the Rocket R9 ONE also uses potentiometer control of the pump motor to achieve flow profiling. My modified Izzo Alex does too but I doubt that is what Mal meant..
    Last edited by Lyrebird; 1 Week Ago at 08:22 PM.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tampinator View Post
    I sometimes think that even though these new machines and tech is really cool, it perhaps could be taking the fun, flare and skill out of making a coffee.. and for me, that’s part of the reason why I got into drinking and making coffee in the first place..
    If machines like the Decent DE1 and Lelit Bianca are anything to go by they give more room for skill, and once you've got the extra skill learned it creates room for the flair and fun too. Every report I've read from machines like this with additional variables say that you almost have to learn how to make coffee again. The common complaints from people who just want to make coffee are that these machines need too much input, and it's harder to just walk up and make a coffee. To me they are the continuance and expansion of why I got into making coffee.

  10. #10
    Senior Member woodhouse's Avatar
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    awesome, looking forward to the new generation of high-volume espresso machines coming out with these features. easy programmability and repeatability.

  11. #11
    Member tampinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    If machines like the Decent DE1 and Lelit Bianca are anything to go by they give more room for skill, and once you've got the extra skill learned it creates room for the flair and fun too. Every report I've read from machines like this with additional variables say that you almost have to learn how to make coffee again. The common complaints from people who just want to make coffee are that these machines need too much input, and it's harder to just walk up and make a coffee. To me they are the continuance and expansion of why I got into making coffee.
    Thatís a fair point level3ninja, and thanks for your input. My definition of flair and skill (which I donít claim to have any of, for the record) is for example when someone with a lever machine can continually replicate a certain espresso profile by feel and through other skills that the barista has developed over time and experience.. my point was, having a machine with saved profiles doing all the work for you, although Iíd admit may open up a tonne of doors with regards to extracting flavours, also takes the joy or fun out of manually making a coffee yourself..

    I guess thatís why there are different machines for different people, as not everyone is the same and wants their coffee made in the same way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodhouse View Post
    awesome, looking forward to the new generation of high-volume espresso machines coming out with these features. easy programmability and repeatability.
    Wouldn't it be amazing if you could go into a cafe and order a coffee without the worry that it would be undrinkable, even if it was ok yesterday with that other barista? Its like living in the future...
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tampinator View Post
    I sometimes think that even though these new machines and tech is really cool, it perhaps could be taking the fun, flare and skill out of making a coffee.. and for me, thatís part of the reason why I got into drinking and making coffee in the first place..
    G'day tampinator

    Actually the Decent DE1 (sitting on my bench right now since early Feb) and that new Esprofesso machine (via the links only - never seen it in the flesh) both move the coffee making experience forward in a huge way.

    I used to despair of ever getting a semi-auto machine to rival the best manual lever machines (i.e. my "eagle Electra" with a weakened spring or the "even better" Olympia Cremina) in terms of flavour and texture in the cuppa.

    I have probably gone through 20+ machines at home over the years in a fruitless attempt to match the Electra. At various friend's cafes I also been lucky enough to play with almost every "up market" commercial toy out there (except the Slayer) for long enough to work out that they cannot do it either, even as a "one off" setup not suitable for a cafe. FWIW, the closest commercial espresso machine to a manual lever I have used is the LM Strada - about the same price as the Esprofesso - which can do limited temperature and pressure profiling, not flow profiling. Perhaps the newer Stradas can do more these days, and I suspect "next weeks version" will also do flow profiling.

    Of course manual levers are not perfect either. They are barely able to do two shots in a row (four would be almost impossible). They cannot shoot and froth at the same time, so for 10+ years I used three machines - the Electra and a second machine (after quite a few duds Miss S, then later a 220V GS3) for carrying out the other function for daily use. I also had a two group La Pavoni for multiple guests from 1985.

    Also, if you are sleep deprived or in a rush you probably shouldn't use a manual lever for the coffee as the resulting cuppa can be truly horrible. The arcane rituals involved in doing multiple shots / switching between shot and froth et. al. get tedious pretty quickly to the point that you often dream of doing it a better way. "Just give me a coffee NOW and no one gets hurt" is not a manual lever practicality, especially after shot two.

    A lot of well regarded machines are an abject failure "in the cuppa" if the best manual levers are your standard.

    What I used to do with the Electra was to preinfuse the shot until I felt a slight pressure change (oh, BTW, the DE1 can also detect a change in pressure to signify the end of preinfusion automatically). Pause for up to 40 seconds depending upon the particular roast. Then give the lever a fairly good shove (I used to think of it as kicking it into action) for a few seconds until the flow starts at the desired rate. Then back the lever off and play with it to keep the desired flow rate happening (by eye and feel) whilst the puck slowly dissolves and less pressure is needed. Kill the shot when it starts to blond.

    The Decent DE1 can be used as the easiest espresso machine possible - pick a preset or personally saved profile once and then press "start" every time you want a rerun. Keep pressing start for as many reruns as you want until boredom sets in. If your grinding and dosing is consistent, so is the result in the cuppa. Truly "significant other" / room mate / guest / friend foolproof. One frequent visitor here is already a major fan of using the DE1 that way. They reckon it is nearly as easy to use as their pod machine (sigh), however it makes much better coffee (sigh partially retracted).

    Alternatively you can select and save an "initially bewildering" set of (as many as needed) steps, each of which can be used to set pressure or flow* followed by setting the temperature, timing, pausing, rising, declining in any of the variables. Every shot displays on the tablet in real time so you can actually see what is actually happening.

    Can it equal a manual lever for flavour? Yep. Can it do a heap of shots in a row without any more effort than hitting "start". Yep. Can it do other types of shots which even a manual lever simply cannot do. Yep. Is it easy to live with. Hell yeah - especially when plumbed in.

    So I really do not think the DE1 and similar machines spoil the experience by "taking the fun, flare and skill out of making a coffee". What they do is to allow you to vary between "set and forget", minor tinkering and / or exploring numerous options as the mood strikes you at the time. I think of it as opening up entirely new vistas when making coffee at home.


    TampIt
    Set pressure or flow*: Setting either of those actually fixes the other one.
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  14. #14
    Senior Member JMcCee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrebird View Post
    Assuming you are responding to Mal: the Rocket R9 ONE also uses potentiometer control of the pump motor to achieve flow profiling. My modified Izzo Alex does too but I doubt that is what Mal meant..
    No. I was asking what the other 7 day wonder was.

  15. #15
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcCee View Post
    No. I was asking what the other 7 day wonder was.
    Sorry mate, I don't remember the name of the manufacturer but it is an Aussie one I think.
    Has been discussed on the boards before...

    Mal.



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