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Thread: ECM Technika V PROFI - reviews & thoughts

  1. #1
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    ECM Technika V PROFI - any reviews or thoughts?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Been looking online and in the forum and while thereís plenty on the ECM Technika IV, I couldnít find much on the V. If thereís a thread that explores it more please point me to it...

    ok so Iíve done some research and Iím currently thinking the Technika V is the way to go with a Mazzer mini A to go with it.

    my requirements are (apart from the ability to produce a superb brew)

    - I want to buy the right machine & grinder - once.
    - must be able to be plumbed in, but not straight away necessarily
    - really want something quiet - I make coffees while Iím on the phone a lot
    - timer I think will help me while Iím learning / distracted
    - Iím not making coffee for large groups
    - I like the idea of PID, not sure I need it but hey, why not?
    - I like the idea of all levers

    Am I on the right track?
    What do people think of the machine / grinder?
    what would you do differently for similar coin? Ie alternatives.
    Last edited by Sleeprequired; 9th October 2019 at 07:50 AM.

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    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    Been looking online and in the forum and while there’s plenty on the ECM Technika IV, I couldn’t find much on the V. If there’s a thread that explores it more please point me to it...

    ok so I’ve done some research and I’m currently thinking the Technika V is the way to go with a Mazzer mini A to go with it.

    my requirements are (apart from the ability to produce a superb brew)

    - I want to buy the right machine & grinder - once.
    - must be able to be plumbed in, but not straight away necessarily
    - really want something quiet - I make coffees while I’m on the phone a lot
    - timer I think will help me while I’m learning / distracted
    - I’m not making coffee for large groups
    - I like the idea of PID, not sure I need it but hey, why not?
    - I like the idea of all levers

    Am I on the right track?
    What do people think of the machine / grinder?
    what would you do differently for similar coin? Ie alternatives.
    I would like to know and how much you are willing to spend?

    It would help others with their suggestions.

    If you are looking for something quite anything with a rotary pump will help you there but to what level of hush are you expecting?

    At the end of the day a machine like this is going to make a great cup. IT comes down i think personally to the grinder you have and the person making it..

    I cant speak for ECM, I can say though the Izzo range is worth a look. Maybe similar price range and fits a lot of what you are looking for.

    Grinder, the only think i would say is have a read about flat burrs and conical burrs, so have a preference on these. I do and hence why i have a Eureka. either way though its once choice.

    Cheers,

    Chris

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    Everything you laid out is great. But honestly espresso machines are kinda like cars... you are never going to be completely satisfied with the one you own. A nice one is always waiting to drive by and redirect your attention.
    The upside of this is that it's fun. But honestly for just making coffee, most machines fit the bill of the "right machine"... it's just pushing water through your coffee! It's all the features or the way it looks that will make it fit you.

    For example, a timer is not on my list of requirements. You can buy any timer and set it next to the machine. This isn't easy when distracted, but also not that hard. Opens up a lot of options of machines.
    Next is noise level. Again, kind of subjective and depends how important your calls are. I don't know if there is a machine that the other person on the other end of the line wont hear, combined with you not hearing quite as well...

    These are definitely your deciding factors in my opinion. It sounds like you need a bit of ease and quietness at time. I would focus on quietness first, then look through the options you find to see if there is a timer.
    I would limit the need for a PID and lever only if it ever shows up after the previous filters.

    Take a look at my thread for the La Cimbali Type R Restoration... I added a "Pulsor for QM67" piece recently that lowered the volume on my machine a lot, and I swapped in an ex4 pump instead of ex5. The difference is pretty astounding, but I still don't know if I would consider using it on an important call... Honestly it sounds pretty close to most rotary machines I have used. You will find neither of these in a machine stock, unless it is the Quickmill machine that uses this part. But you can purchase and add them (or get somebody to do it for you) on almost any machine.

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    Thanks for the contribution guys. I did a little tour of the traps today and had the opportunity to look at a few machines.

    I looked at the Izzo Alex duetto today and also saw the rocket double boiler version. Theyíre both beautiful and although theyíre double boiler Iím still trying to work out if I want that or the (cheaper) heat exchange versions. I was told today that the PID is Ďless effectiveí on the heat exchangers and Iíve seen a whole thread of even experts arguing over how correct that is.

    whatís got me now is the grinder choices. My friend purchased a niche zero today and it was handy from the point of view of being able to Ďdialí in the grinder with new beans because there were no wasted shots from grind retention, but the downside is you have to weigh every coffee. The advice I received is the niche is way ahead of its peers in terms of grind quality for the money. It certainly seems popular here.

    What appeals about say the eureka atom for me is the ability to dose without having to weigh or put new beans in each time which I think Iíd prefer - once I get the beans dialled in. Up until that point the niche appeals because of the zero waste thing.

    hmmm to be truthful it was a bit intimidating watching people who are good at what theyíre doing having to dial things in. Makes me wonder what hope ive got I had a laugh.

  5. #5
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    Thanks for the contribution guys. I did a little tour of the traps today and had the opportunity to look at a few machines.

    I looked at the Izzo Alex duetto today and also saw the rocket double boiler version. They’re both beautiful and although they’re double boiler I’m still trying to work out if I want that or the (cheaper) heat exchange versions. I was told today that the PID is ‘less effective’ on the heat exchangers and I’ve seen a whole thread of even experts arguing over how correct that is.

    what’s got me now is the grinder choices. My friend purchased a niche zero today and it was handy from the point of view of being able to ‘dial’ in the grinder with new beans because there were no wasted shots from grind retention, but the downside is you have to weigh every coffee. The advice I received is the niche is way ahead of its peers in terms of grind quality for the money. It certainly seems popular here.

    What appeals about say the eureka atom for me is the ability to dose without having to weigh or put new beans in each time which I think I’d prefer - once I get the beans dialled in. Up until that point the niche appeals because of the zero waste thing.

    hmmm to be truthful it was a bit intimidating watching people who are good at what they’re doing having to dial things in. Makes me wonder what hope ive got I had a laugh.
    I know the Izzo range have a smaller foot print machine https://www.casaespresso.com.au/izzo-vivi-pid.html site sponsor Casa Espresso has them. I've heard that same that a PID is not needed on the HX machines.

    As for grinders I went from a Breville smart grinder to a Compak k3 to a Macap MD4 to now a Eureka Zenith 65E... I dont see my self changing grinders soon. I have taken a look into the niche grinder but as many have said although they look great and people love them there is no track record for durability yet. I guess that shouldn't be seen as a bad thing as other than this they look the goods.

    cheers,

    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    Thanks for the contribution guys. I did a little tour of the traps today and had the opportunity to look at a few machines.

    I looked at the Izzo Alex duetto today and also saw the rocket double boiler version. They’re both beautiful and although they’re double boiler I’m still trying to work out if I want that or the (cheaper) heat exchange versions. I was told today that the PID is ‘less effective’ on the heat exchangers and I’ve seen a whole thread of even experts arguing over how correct that is.

    what’s got me now is the grinder choices. My friend purchased a niche zero today and it was handy from the point of view of being able to ‘dial’ in the grinder with new beans because there were no wasted shots from grind retention, but the downside is you have to weigh every coffee. The advice I received is the niche is way ahead of its peers in terms of grind quality for the money. It certainly seems popular here.

    What appeals about say the eureka atom for me is the ability to dose without having to weigh or put new beans in each time which I think I’d prefer - once I get the beans dialled in. Up until that point the niche appeals because of the zero waste thing.

    hmmm to be truthful it was a bit intimidating watching people who are good at what they’re doing having to dial things in. Makes me wonder what hope ive got I had a laugh.
    PID is an arguement, but in my own logic I think of it as a waste on a HX. It will control the temp of the boiler, which on a HX does not dictate the heat of the group and therefore the brew. On a HX, you need to run a bit of water to even out the temps. So it will fluctuate, but pretty consistently so you just need to know how long to run the water before the shot. I put a Thermometer on my HX group when I am trying to "dial in" how much water I need to do a small rinse before making the shot. Boiler temp affects steam pressure (since the boiler produces steam and only flash heats the brew water), which can usually be adjusted at the P-stat and eliminates the need for a PID in my opinion, at least if you are looking to save at least $100 or $2. I have adjusted my P-stat a few times and it was pretty easy on my machine. Adjusting the P-stat tells the machine to lower the steam pressure, which translates to a lower boiler temperature. I will say this is the most annoying part of the HX (being unsure if you have the ideal group temp), but the cost saving is huge compared to a PID double-boiler if you are willing to spend a bit of time to nail down your process.

    The price seems worth it if you just want to plug and play without too much dialing and learning of your machine, and opens up some more advanced options pretty quickly. On a double boiler, having a controlled boiler temperature makes way more sense: the water coming from the brew boiler will bring the group to a consistent temperature, and the steam has its own boiler. You can really dial in your exact brew temperatures to the degree. But then you open up the door for not only dialing the grind, but dialing in temperatures for each grind/bean/variety. It is really an infinite hole that takes years to fully explore and at the end of the day is totally subjective. Most people spend years brewing at the same temperature and only affect other factors. Your journey, your choice what to do first.

    Niche looks super cool, never tried it though. I am not an expert here, but as a solution to lost grounds on my grinders I turn the leftovers into either cold brew or save it to make coconut oil scrub for gifts. For cold brew I just throw the leftover grounds in a jar, and filter it through a paper filter the 14-24 hours later. Helps me save a few bucks and makes an awesome to-go when time is short.

    And heck yes! It is intimidating. Practice makes things look so easy. But with the basics in hand about grinding, tamping, and a goal for a brew-time/shot size, you will be nailing it down in no time and won't believe how hard you thought it was.
    Last edited by Bachonga; 10th October 2019 at 08:45 PM.
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  7. #7
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Great input "Bachonga"...

    Mal.

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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Bezzera Mitica TOP (non-PID) is worth a look also. Quality build, Lever operated valves, Rotary for plumbing-in if desired or run from Reservoir.

    Bezzera MITICA TOP.jpeg

    Check your Private Messages for some more info.
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    Sleeprequired… I have been following these blogs for a while and just decided to commit and join so that I may see the .jpgs and links more easily and, maybe, contribute. In my relatively brief time here I have come to respect greatly the inputs of the likes of CafeLotta and would listen to their wisdom very closely.
    For myself, I have recently purchased the Technika V PROFI PID and am delighted. I have teamed this with a Baratza Sette 270Wi and Brewista BBSRBE Smart Scale II. I can't commend each of these highly enough! The Sette accurately weighs to within about .1gm and can be dialled, infinitely and quickly, to espresso, pour over etc. A little noisy but so quick it doesn't matter....and NO RETENTION. The only beef I have, and this would apply to any grinder, is that with some beans, such as the Lavazza Super Crema, electrostatics sees coffee grinds sprinkle around the machine. This hasn't happened with freshly roasted beans. The Brewista scales measure the pour accurately and times from when it starts receiving the coffee. Fabulous.
    Re the PID, I have been advised, by a Barista trainer, that the timing is more important from when the lever is pulled than from when the pour starts hitting the cup. So I use the PID on the Technika and find it invaluable and just use the scales for the weight. So, would I go for the DB Synchronica over the HX Technika. Sure. But I don't have bottomless pockets and for a similar price I have a fabulous espresso machine with matching grinder and scales. btw the Sette uses built in ACAIA scales and updates Firmware via Bluetooth from an Apple iPhone or iPad.
    I have upgraded this gear from a fully automatic DeLonghi Primadonna Elite and I can't tell you how much more and better coffee is being extracted and I still have a LONG WAY to go!!!!
    As for the accuracy of the PID controlled temperature on the group head. I am exploring the notion of a thermometer to confirm. However ECM, EXCELLENTLY manufactured, gives a very accurate table which correlates the water temp with the group head temp. The BAR is variable via a screw located, not so conveniently, under the machine. So, it is much more accurate than previous versions of the machine. I will be plumbing mine in ASAP. Warning, this requires a filter and a Reducer valve as the Technika V can only handle 0 - 1.5 Bar inline pressure but it does give you access to pre-infusion that is not available from the built in tank! I'm finding I am using seriously more water than the fully automatic Delonghi. I don't have the facility to plumb in the waste, but, as the machine is sitting in the scullery, it is not too onerous to empty the drip tray into the sink. Love the levers, Love the gauges at the top (I'm tall and my eyesight isn't what it used to be), Love the rotary pump, Love being able to plumb in, Love PID timer and temp control/accuracy.
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    I'm very interested in this machine as well, particularly with the Xmas/NY break coming up and the opportunity to dial in some lovely shots in my downtime. Did notice some advice elsewhere at this pricepoint to investigate the Profitec Pro 600 but you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere and I'm really attracted to the build quality of the ECM's. Currently, price is hovering around the $3300 mark so anything closer to the $3K with possible sales upcoming would be too much of a temptation. I'll be partnering this with a Niche Zero that has recently replaced a Baratza Sette 270Wi.

    Is the pre-sales calibration by the seller absolutely crucial or is that something that you could do yourself without any specialised equipment? Interested as it will not be plumbed in and constant refilling from lengthy cooling flushes would be a deal-breaker. I do have the Coffee Sensor Pro Thermometer from the recent Black Friday deal on its way also.

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    Mine arrived yesterday and I'm pretty happy so far. On advice from this group I have ordered the 4 hole steam tip and to be honest, I'm struggling with the 2 hole but I haven't given it much of a go. The reason I chose the ECM was build quality and a few little things - the levers for steam and water are minimalist, the pressure dials are on the top (I'm a tall guy) and I really wanted a shot timer integrated into the machine. The ability to plumb it in is a bonus.

    This is quite a step up from my previous Breville Dual Boiler so I'm getting used to shot quality and volumes. What's the ball park volume I should look for from a double basket and over what time? 30ml over 25 seconds?
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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Nice combo mate...

    30g(ml) in 25-30 seconds would be considered a Ristretto shot.
    Try aiming for 45-60g in the cup from ~20g coffee and see where the sweet spot is for your palate.
    If 30g from ~20g coffee does it for you well that's fine too, a lot of us prefer Ristrettos...
    I'll let others contribute to the discussion on ideal Brew Ratios.

    Mal.
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    That's a beautiful combination! Congrats on the purchase.
    It really is a looker.

    Let us know how you get on with the 4 hole steam tip.

    Are you also able to let me know what the boiler sits at when set to 121 at the PID (which is 93.9 degrees at the group according to the manual)?
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    rebem, you must be my evil twin or something. That is exactly the combo I'm looking at for exactly the same reasons. Hope you get lots of enjoyment from your setup, might be joining the club soon.
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    Thanks for the feedback everyone. Nice to know I have some evil twins out there

    @Dimal - Great direction thanks. Managed a 47g over 30 sec with 20g today and yes, I think I'm a Ristretto drinker. Will tighten the grind a bit.

    @depecid - Not sure what you mean - the PID is set to 121 out of the box and I see that on the display but is there another way of measuring the boiler temp? I haven't touched the PID buttons at all yet On second thoughts, I _may_ have seen the PID show 109 when I blast the steamer. Is that it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rebem View Post
    Thanks for the feedback everyone. Nice to know I have some evil twins out there
    @depecid - Not sure what you mean - the PID is set to 121 out of the box and I see that on the display but is there another way of measuring the boiler temp? I haven't touched the PID buttons at all yet On second thoughts, I _may_ have seen the PID show 109 when I blast the steamer. Is that it?
    So if you put the PID up to 122 (Should be as simple as pressing both up and down at the same time, then very quickly hitting up once) what does the pressure gauge read? As a reference, on the picture you put up earlier, it looks like it's sitting on .85 BAR of pressure. The reason i ask is my little machine sits on around 1.35 as i had a thermosyphon restrictor put in so it sits higher for extra steam pressure while maintaining the correct brew temp.

    The drop to 109 is simply becuase the temp drops off as you are steaming but should recover quickly back to your set temp (121) once you stop. Mine goes from 124 down to about 119 when i use the steam wand.

    Edit: i just noticed i said 122 above but mentioned 121 earlier. Ignore my request to fiddle with the settings, but am still interested to know what the pressure gauge reads when sitting at 121 if possible.
    Last edited by depecid; 13th December 2019 at 12:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by depecid View Post
    ...
    Edit: i just noticed i said 122 above but mentioned 121 earlier. Ignore my request to fiddle with the settings, but am still interested to know what the pressure gauge reads when sitting at 121 if possible.
    Gotcha. My boiler pressure is bang on 1 bar.

    Is a pressure relief through the drain valve normal after pulling a shot with these?
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    Great, thanks for that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rebem View Post

    Is a pressure relief through the drain valve normal after pulling a shot with these?
    yep it is normal
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    Great discussion happening here.
    Fuzzboy - My understanding of the Profitec 600 vs ECM is that the build quality is almost identical - VW vs Skoda! (Same manufacturing group). It is the final fitout spec that differs and each has merit. I first ordered the P 600 then switched to the Technika as I wanted levers, plumbing in, rotary pump etc. TBH I am still having problems managing the timing of flush vs shots to maintain the temp range I want. It took the fitting of the Coffee-Sensor Pro to be informed just how far the group head temp was swinging from the PID setting.
    I go for 125 to get a steam pressure of 1.4 Bar with a 4hole tip. Fantastic.
    Lately I have been using the Allpress Browns Mill organic coffee. I had been putting it through 18 gm, 30 sec, 30 gm out in VST 18gm basket. They recommend 18gm, 26 seconds and 40gm out. I have been tamping consistently....too hard, though no channelling with bottomless portafilter. Not settled yet but looking like 45 gm in 26 sec might be the sweet spot.
    Would be really keen to know why you switched from a Baratza Sette 270Wi. I find mine fantastic and can't see why anyone would change to something else. I did have my brother 3D print the funnel (links elsewhere in forum) and that has been wonderful.
    Regarding the default 121 PID setting, I don't see how that could get the water temp high enough through the Group Head. There is supposed to be a circa 2 degree loss from the GH thermometer reading to the portafilter. With this machine fully warmed up I suspect the loss is less than that as it seems I have been getting nicer taste when drawing with readings less than 96. At first flush the GH can spike up to 98.8 - 99. I flush for about 7 seconds. The boiler recovers very quickly but the ?thermosyphon takes circa 3 minutes to settle. Huge learning curve.
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    For what it’s worth, the build quality it not the same in the ECM and the proifitec.
    For example the frame in the profitec is 800g lighter than the ECM amongst other things

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    For what it’s worth, the build quality it not the same in the ECM and the proifitec.
    For example the frame in the profitec is 800g lighter than the ECM amongst other things
    The alarm bells are ringing when someone:
    1. compares two brands rather than how two different models may suit the OPs requirements
    2. uses the vague term "build quality" to prove the "superiority" of one brand over another
    3. quotes a difference in specification that doesn't seem to apply to the models in question (the Technika and Pro 500/600 chassis are virtually identical)

    charlie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    For what it’s worth, the build quality it not the same in the ECM and the proifitec.
    For example the frame in the profitec is 800g lighter than the ECM amongst other things
    This statement flies in the face of the accumulated experience and knowledge of a great many owners of either brand of machine and that of the many reputable specialist retailers including several of our CS Sponsors...

    Mal.

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    Charlie

    I stand by my opinion that ECM are a better built machine.
    I also have no vested interest in either machine.

    Mal

    I disagree with your comments. It’s not meant derogatory. Perhaps it could have been worded differently.
    Though stand by my belief that in general ECM are better machines.

    I’m not after an argument so I will not post any more in this thread.

    To all looking for a machine,
    Good luck with your search

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
    Charlie

    I stand by my opinion that ECM are a better built machine.
    I also have no vested interest in either machine.

    Mal

    I disagree with your comments. Itís not meant derogatory. Perhaps it could have been worded differently.
    Though stand by my belief that in general ECM are better machines.

    Iím not after an argument so I will not post any more in this thread.

    To all looking for a machine,
    Good luck with your search
    You're entitled to your opinion. But when you express it like a statement of fact and post it on a public forum you should expect to be challenged on it. Especially when the evidence you use to back your claim is incorrect.

    charlie
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    Quote Originally Posted by quester View Post
    Great discussion happening here.
    Fuzzboy - My understanding of the Profitec 600 vs ECM is that the build quality is almost identical - VW vs Skoda! (Same manufacturing group).

    Would be really keen to know why you switched from a Baratza Sette 270Wi. .
    Profitec is not on my radar despite the advice as I won't be giving business to the distributor (they know why). I was really happy with the Sette and Five Senses were great to deal with an early issue with the grinder but I just got out of the habit of smashing a coffee first thing in the morning. I'm surrounded by great cafes and roasters at work and enjoy the variety on offer. Appreciate also that first coffee sitting at my desk. The Niche suits my weekend warrior workflow so will reiterate the fanboy feedback club by saying I'm over the moon with it.
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