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Thread: 2nd Hand Boema 2 group purchase advice

  1. #1
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    Question 2nd Hand Boema 2 group purchase advice

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi Folks,

    Before I go ahead and stitch myself up

    I'm about to hop in the car and go check this out.

    Boema 2 group,
    unsure if 10 or 15 amp model. looks like an A1 / A2?

    Given the size I will assume 15.

    Seller has advised the 2nd group is blocked and no water flows - I am assuming a solenoid or something has gone bung in this.
    pics show it comes with group handles

    it also comes with the trolley and all other things inside of it e.g cups and what what looked like an external water pump.

    Price, Good enough to take a chance.

    Things I should look over for?
    Note I will only have about 10-15mins to check it over nor make a drink.

    Mainly the obvious things to check over.

    I'm expecting i'll be needing to drop at least another $200-300ish for a proper pull down and service

    this will be more of an ongoing project, not something that needs to be put into commercial production.

    Cheers.

    2.jpg1.jpg

  2. #2
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Right group touch pads seem to be stuck on with tape? Maybe to prevent use because it is "blocked". A speck of breakaway limescale in the mushroom will block but very easy to fix if that is indeed why it's not working.

    If it is a problem with the control box that could be expensive.
    Swap the ribbon cables left for right and see what happens to check.

    The pars seem to be generic Rancilio/Grimac and available if need replacing.

    I would at the very least want to hear and see the pump running even if the water is cold.

    In the few minutes you have you should at least hear the element start to heat. In 10 minutes the pressure gauge should be moving especially if it is a 10 amp.

    These machines are very hardy and if not missused you might get away with a couple of group seals. Maybe a solenoid if that is why one group isn't working. Maybe a heating element if that's not working....

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    Okay small update.

    I dropped some dollars down on it.

    Pick up Sunday.

    Overall cleanish
    10mins with some stainless steel cleaner will bring it right up.

    I found it is a 15 amp unit with a 10 amp plug.

    Fellow said it takes about 40mins to heat up so I'm assuming one of the heating elements has been disabled.

    Unit + 3 group handles (2 double and single) the cart and external pump for $150.

    I didn't take the lid off, but looking underneath the stainless boiler was clean and copper pipes were still somewhat shiny.

    He said the 2nd one had been disconnected but a bit of does come through it.

    I powered it on and water flowed through the first head finez so I shook hands and said i'll take it.

    100% needs new group seals and maybe a shower head as it looks pretty crusty.

    Overall it's a gamble. I'll give boema a call next week to suss out some more information about it.

    I'll guess 10-15 years old?
    Maybe?

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    And the other photos I took.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    Right group touch pads seem to be stuck on with tape? Maybe to prevent use because it is "blocked". A speck of breakaway limescale in the mushroom will block but very easy to fix if that is indeed why it's not working.
    Unsure.
    Now that I have brought the machine home it has given me a bit more of a chance to look over it.

    The 2nd group is missing the shower screen.
    It's pretty filthy inside of it up inside the actual group head.
    caked on black goop, so I'm confident to say it's probably never had a blackflush in its life.
    even any sort of cleaning really.

    When I flick the orange switch to manually run the pump manually on the 2nd group,

    The solenoid clicks, the pump fires up but nothing comes through.

    Where is the, I have just looked at some pictures of the E61 based head and that is something I will check out.
    I will start with removing the top bolt and dropping a bit of descaling solution down it and see if that loosens things up a tad.

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    If it is a problem with the control box that could be expensive.
    Swap the ribbon cables left for right and see what happens to check.
    It won't be this, pressing the buttons on the panel up front makes the machine start making noises and the pump cycles itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    The pars seem to be generic Rancilio/Grimac and available if need replacing.
    Perfect.
    That will make shopping around for things easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    I would at the very least want to hear and see the pump running even if the water is cold.
    They have pulled the internal pump out of the unit and have it sitting in the trolley.

    A water container sits above it and uses a form of gravity to put pressure within the pump itself.
    When you cycle the pump, the pressure needle shakes all around the place wildly.

    I'm confident to say the pump is NOT designed to do that.
    I'll either get myself a new 20l water drum to put some decent positive pressure and find a non return valve
    or find a flowjet / rotary pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    In the few minutes you have you should at least hear the element start to heat. In 10 minutes the pressure gauge should be moving especially if it is a 10 amp.
    I only had the machine on for a few minutes when i checked it out.
    Loaded onto the trailer yesterday and took it home.
    it took about 20-30mins? to head up, Average around 2200~ Watts for it to heat up.
    it maintained pressure quite well, steam pressure was stupidly powerful, coming from a BES820 to this.. haha :I had a laugh: VERY different..
    over a minute to steam 250mls of milk to all of about 15 seconds. it really gets away from you quickly, so I can forsee myself wasting alot of milk practicing with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    These machines are very hardy and if not missused you might get away with a couple of group seals. Maybe a solenoid if that is why one group isn't working. Maybe a heating element if that's not working....
    Thanks,

    I've just gotten off the phone with Boema and spoke with someone where.. Geoff? Grant? G.. something anyway.
    Spoke about the price I bought it for, and was given his word that even with a blocked up 2nd group,
    the fact that the machine builds and maintains pressure is good enough to persure getting it fixed up / back to proper spec again due to the sturdyness of the machines and that when given a good service would provide me with quite a few more years life of tasty coffee use.

    Going from the serial number, Estimated age to be around 10-15 years old.

    I was offered a dual group head service kit which provided all new seals etc, but I declined this and for the time being, whilst being a massive learning experience and would be a great oppourtunity to learn. I'm in the minds I would much rather have a "pro" go over the machine to adjust / fix / calibrate it and bring it back to working life.

    2x group kits are about $90ish each going by the interwebs,
    full clean and descale of the boiler / other things
    A clean up internally inside - I may attack this one with an citric based cleaner to remove as much gunk as possible,
    spray on, let it dwell and wipe off.

    There is some corrosion in some sections ontop of the group head and also at the bottom of the boiler, but I was unable to locate any other leaks when I left it turned on.


    Also.. What is the middle switch for on the power switches? it has a stam / cloud looking picture on it?

    Any reccomendations for service agents on the Central Coast area? (I know about coffeeparts in Newcastle too) I would put it on a pallet and take directly into the workshop

    Pictures to come soon so you can gauge a better idea.

    Cheers all!

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  7. #7
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    The orange switch I'm pretty confident is an "emergency" switch to operate one of the groups if the touch pads cease working. Could be wrong, but try it and see.

    The gauge needle certainly shouldn't oscillate. Indicates the pump is struggling to draw water. Assuming the oump is ok, you may need to help it prime. To do that I crack open the pipe to the brew pressure gauge, run the pump until water spurts out, and then tighten the nut again on the pipe/gauge junction. Then turn off pump.

    These pumps mustn't be run dry from zero seconds for some to a minute for others so careful. Inline anti syphon valves are available at Bunnings for under $10.

    Good luck.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    im liking this one, id be inclined to completely remove those group heads and soak them in cleaner

    be watching this one, good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    The orange switch I'm pretty confident is an "emergency" switch to operate one of the groups if the touch pads cease working. Could be wrong, but try it and see.
    Yeah, up next to the soft keys there is that orange switch which does manually activate it.

    I've also discovered that the switch in the middle is for manual boiler fill.




    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    The gauge needle certainly shouldn't oscillate. Indicates the pump is struggling to draw water. Assuming the oump is ok, you may need to help it prime. To do that I crack open the pipe to the brew pressure gauge, run the pump until water spurts out, and then tighten the nut again on the pipe/gauge junction. Then turn off pump.

    These pumps mustn't be run dry from zero seconds for some to a minute for others so careful. Inline anti syphon valves are available at Bunnings for under $10.

    Good luck.
    Perfect, thanks for that.
    I had a feeling this may be the case,
    that is my plan this week to head out and buy a new water container, anti-sypon valve and try my luck from there.

    I will pull the top valve off out of the 2nd group head and see if it's caked up.
    The pump has been hack-jobbed a bit up so hopefully it isn't dead.
    it is rather loud but i'll put that to not being mounted on any rubber etc.

    is there an obvious way to see if it is a rotary / vibration pump?

    Hopefully it turns out okay,
    Maybe PID control in the future if it's worthwhile? who knows!
    but this is the first adventure into overkill machines at home haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sullo View Post
    im liking this one, id be inclined to completely remove those group heads and soak them in cleaner

    be watching this one, good luck!
    I have considered this,
    but that would involve me needing to purchase a full rebuild kit and at this stage my confidence levels aren't quite there.
    on the flip side, getting some citric based cleaner to loosen up all the gunk can be a labour saver down the line when it goes in for it's check over :/
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  11. #11
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noomz View Post
    is there an obvious way to see if it is a rotary / vibration pump?
    A rotary pump will be brass with a sizable electric motor attached to it while a vibration pump will be plastic with no obvious motor.


    Java "Night and day" phile
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    Thanks for that.

    Rotary pump it is!

    A Bit dirty, but now I have a better idea of what I'm working with.
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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    You are learning more about your machine as you explore deeper into it...way to go!

    That pump looks as though it has a garden hose attached to it with other plastic irrigation adaptors. I'd remove them. Braided stainless steel hoses should screw onto the pump directly. Also less joins for leaks under pressure.

    The dirty blue rectangular box with CE on it to the right of the boiler is almost certainly a Sirai pressurestat, which controls the heater. They are extremely long lasting, cheap, easy to adjust pressure, so a PID will not be necessary nor will it do a better job.

    This is the Kinetic brand backflow anti syphon valve from Bunnings. The top part goes onto your braided or other hose, the large bottom part drops into your water tank.
    backflow valve.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    You are learning more about your machine as you explore deeper into it...way to go!
    Indeedy, it's something different.

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    That pump looks as though it has a garden hose attached to it with other plastic irrigation adaptors. I'd remove them. Braided stainless steel hoses should screw onto the pump directly. Also less joins for leaks under pressure.
    Correcto!,
    The way it was setup is the braided line at the back goes upto the feed line
    and the hose connector goes to the water container for quick connect / disconnect.
    I'm not so worried about that side as it's pretty low pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    The dirty blue rectangular box with CE on it to the right of the boiler is almost certainly a Sirai pressurestat, which controls the heater. They are extremely long lasting, cheap, easy to adjust pressure, so a PID will not be necessary nor will it do a better job.

    This is the Kinetic brand backflow anti syphon valve from Bunnings. The top part goes onto your braided or other hose, the large bottom part drops into your water tank.
    Great! That answers my other pending upcoming question of "What is this"

    Thanks for that!
    I'm starting to feel a touch better with this risky purchase.

    I'll drop into the big green store on my way home to pick some things up.
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    I appreicated the responses here as I go on this wild adventure of discovery, frustration and "what on earth does this do"

    some questions may come across as silly, but absoloute new kid on the block for this side of the world haha.

    The next Q.

    Now, I haven't gone over the intricates of what each component does (I've had this for under 48hrs)

    But this bitsa here.

    I was looking around for a way to see inside the boiler and found that this was loose, as in I could turn it a couple of times before it reached the base of the thread.

    Did potentially undo a setting here? or should this be tight tight?
    taking it off showed a white plastic... thing.. with a rubber seal on the end, so I'll take a wild guess of a pressure relieve valve?

    Thanks
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  16. #16
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    There are two similar looking valves... the taller one is the pressure relief valve. That should not be lose and I wouldn't make any adjustments to that.

    The smaller one will be the the vacuum break valve. The top rod is attached to a piston with an o-ring which pushes up to seal the boiler as pressure rises after warm up...and moves down to allow air back in once the machine is switched off and cooling. The piston should move up and down freely if you pull and push it while cold. But the housing should be a tight screw on. While it is loose, take it all off and make sure the rubber o-ring is in good condition and the piston not binding.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    Now i understand why a few liked by azkoyen rebuild years ago, liking watching this discovery here,
    Keep at it ask questions lookup manuals its all learning!
    Best of luck an you will hit some roadblocks but never let a machine beat you!,

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    A small update,

    I was a tad bored tonight and explored the group head.
    So out came the tools and off it came.

    Suprisingly easy.

    I cannot find this mushroom that was mentioned?

    Although I am positive there was probably some mushrooms growing inside.

    The calcium built up inside was insane... It's been sitting in an ultrasonic cleaner for the last hour and a bit in some of the boema cleaning solution.

    The water is brown now.

    I'm expecting to see the chunks inside broken down.

    I can't get the screw on the side of the head undone. It's well and truly stuck.

    Heat?
    Bigger screwdriver?
    Yelling?

    No way filtered water was ever used in this machine.

    So now. If this is what the group head looks like.

    What will I find in the boiler
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  19. #19
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    That's some bad calcium build up, and unfortunately does not bode well for what's lurking in the boiler.

    The big bolt on the side I wouldn't worry too much if it won't come off. It's just to blank off where the old levers would have been before touchpad controls took over.

    The mushroom: at the very top of the group there are two bolts, a smaller one sitting atop a larger one.

    Unscrew the larger one and what is attached to it is the mushroom. It will be very caked with scale I'll guess.

    Remove the top bolt to access a fine mesh screen in there which should be cleaned.

    Be sure to remove every speck of scale in the mushroom or it may cause a blockage.

    This video shows the mushroom removal.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SztMhSrSKxg
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  20. #20
    Senior Member Sullo's Avatar
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    if you get the boiler out which I would recommend, and you don't have a high pressure washer, I can tell you from experience that the washers at car lovers or similar car wash places are really good for removing buildup.
    And getting interested looks from onlookers, just jam it behind your rear tyre and go nuts, and if anyone asks what it is, say your sworn to secrecy about this new turbo pressure system your working on
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  21. #21
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noomz View Post
    I can't get the screw on the side of the head undone. It's well and truly stuck.
    Are you referring to the items circled Noomz?

    Mal.

    boema-2-group-purchase-advice.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    That's some bad calcium build up, and unfortunately does not bode well for what's lurking in the boiler.
    Wasn't it!

    Now I've pulled it off,
    I think mine is a "Similiar to E61"
    I have no mushroom valve, just a single big bolt ontop of the head and underneath that is a small bolt with what looks like a jet / pressure relieve or something.

    This page is bad haha
    I look at my original comment of "I'll just pay for it to be looked over"

    The more I look at the machine, the more I see how simple the overall construct is (well the main components)
    and in an effort to safe a few dollars I started exploring.

    One group head off, look at it being all crusty turns into "I wonder what the other one is like?"

    2 group heads + shower screens + everything else, dropped into a pot with the cleaning solution and left it sitting in the pot for about 2hrs at 90c~

    I even put the group handles into it as well and they came back quite nice too.
    lots of gunk and baked on oils removed from all the components as you'll see in the picture of the left over water.

    But everyone loves pictures..

    So here are some!
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    The Water that was in it was just.. wow
    Lots of black sediment at the bottom.

    I feel as though I need to get a wire brush on a drill or something just to get through all the calcified minerals that is in there.

    I did however manage to clear whatever was blocking the water feed into the top of the group, thanks to a trusty zip tie haha.

    A quick put together of it and its came up cleanish.
    still alot of tarnish of it, and wouldn't mind giving it another run over.

    Then there is the whoops moment where a temporary moment of hulk like strength when assembling it back together,
    went finger tight and then another 1/4 turn,
    then it suddenly kept on turning.

    I'm expecting that piece to be generic and not that expensive to replace.
    Last edited by Noomz; 21st October 2019 at 11:54 AM.
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    Next upd00t.

    I felt like Dora and went on even more of an adventure.

    Last night whilst the kids were watching TV, I headed out and decided to look at the boiler unit.

    A pipe spanner and a whack with a hammer and they unfroze.
    Who in their right mind would use red loctite!?!

    Anyway,
    all bolts at the end of the boiler came out apart from one.
    I asked nicely,
    I gave it an Inox bath and let it think about what it had done.
    then it decided to round itself on me.

    So out came Sir Angle Grinder to provide some gentle pursuastion.

    Only a small nick on the top of the boiler unit itself, so no too bad.

    Was there supposed to be a seal in between the 2 faces? if there was.. it didn't exist.

    They were zinc bolts that had been used.. what in the?

    I'll get those replaced with some stainless ones and actually fit washers to it aswell.

    The actual heating element is in pretty good condition and had been changed to a 10A model which I am happy about.

    I do have a pressure washer at home, so I'll stick a fine tip on it and go to town with it.

    But have some boiler gore.

    This is my progress so far.
    I haven't looked into any of the relays yet etc
    just at the "pull it all apart stage"

    I'd like to give the copper pipes a clean and polish, purely just because.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sullo View Post
    if you get the boiler out which I would recommend, and you don't have a high pressure washer, I can tell you from experience that the washers at car lovers or similar car wash places are really good for removing buildup.
    And getting interested looks from onlookers, just jam it behind your rear tyre and go nuts, and if anyone asks what it is, say your sworn to secrecy about this new turbo pressure system your working on
    Thanks for that,
    after reading your post last night I pulled it out.

    wowweeee.

    Check out the pics ^^^
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Are you referring to the items circled Noomz?

    Mal.

    boema-2-group-purchase-advice.jpg
    Nopes,


    That top bolt came out with a 17mm socket
    and underneath is an 8mm.

    There was a flathead bolt on the side of the group head that I couldn't remove.

    I wanted to get all the screws out so the decaling solution could flow as freely as possible, but it is well and truly stuck
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  27. #27
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Looks like a mix of both corrosion and scale deposits...
    Might pay to give it an acid bath or one in a decent scale remover, such as the triple action stuff rom Clean Machine. Should do a decent enough job of cleaning it all up for you.

    Mal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Looks like a mix of both corrosion and scale deposits...
    Might pay to give it an acid bath or one in a decent scale remover, such as the triple action stuff rom Clean Machine. Should do a decent enough job of cleaning it all up for you.

    Mal.
    That's a good idea.

    I might contact one of the local service places
    and see what they might charge to do that.
    they might have a commercial ultrasonic cleaner too.
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  29. #29
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    My apologies Nooz, I thought yours was an E61 group Boema--- I should have looked at your original pictures closer.

    The groups look to be neither the iconic E61s nor saturated ones but are solid enough.

    You are making good strides there, and the more you dismantle and assemble the more you know about your machine and how to repair future problems.

    I'd guess the corrosion on the groups was caused by leaks through what are almost certain to be rubber 0-rings, so they should be replaced

    ORINGS2.jpg
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