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Thread: ECM Synchronika & V-Titan purchased - setup questions

  1. #1
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    ECM Synchronika & V-Titan purchased - setup questions

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    So Iíve got my new Synchronika & v-Titan all setup, and I watched the whole latte love video on dialling in you machine & grinder. I have the machine setup at 93 & just under 9 bar for the brew & 127 (1.6 bar) for the steam


    I watched the whole latte love video on dialling in your grinder and they were talking about 18g in the basket. For my basket it took 22g to fill it, which really threw me.

    - I have the IMS COMPETITION 28.5, and Iím thinking itís just a massive basket which is meant to take that much - 22g
    - should I go get the 26.5, or the 24.5 in order to do 18g doubles? Iím thinking the 22g double would work well when using the double spout so Iíll keep it.
    - also I noticed my pucks were quite wet too, I was tamping to roughly where a ridge would be if the basket was ridged. The pucks werenít as dry as Iím used to seeing so not sure what was happening there.

    I might be able to get a video tomorrow to show people whatís going on.


    for the photos attached I extracted 65ml from 22g, the shot went relatively well I think and apart from being very strong the latte I made was really, really nice. I would describe it as strong and sweet which wa super interesting.

    Lighting on the latte is dark.

    F2992A65-318A-4400-A1CD-12A6DEC195AC.jpg
    05F0CDDD-CA0C-472D-BB83-9255E9AA2A40.jpg
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  2. #2
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    It sounds like you are enjoying your new equipment. It is a nice experience to have. Good onya.

    I actually went back to my standard Wega basket and portafilter holder (chrome/brass) after an IMS 26.5. I liked the fact that the standard one holds 18grams.

    I like your grinder by the way. It looks a million dollars. Machine is nice too although E61 machines have a certain similarity in the looks department for obvious reasons with the big E61 group head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn View Post
    It sounds like you are enjoying your new equipment. It is a nice experience to have. Good onya.

    I actually went back to my standard Wega basket and portafilter holder (chrome/brass) after an IMS 26.5. I liked the fact that the standard one holds 18grams.

    I like your grinder by the way. It looks a million dollars. Machine is nice too although E61 machines have a certain similarity in the looks department for obvious reasons with the big E61 group head.
    if I pick up the IMS 24.5 itíll hold 18g. This I think will be the basket I use most. Then Iíll use the monster for doing 2 coffees at once for guests.

    hereís a pick of the machine in-situ. Torture having a new machine and throwing out my perfect coffee, but at 22g I would not have slept AT ALL.

    461592A6-4243-4EF6-BC85-FFA620426809.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    if I pick up the IMS 24.5 it’ll hold 18g. This I think will be the basket I use most. Then I’ll use the monster for doing 2 coffees at once for guests.

    here’s a pick of the machine in-situ. Torture having a new machine and throwing out my perfect coffee, but at 22g I would not have slept AT ALL.

    461592A6-4243-4EF6-BC85-FFA620426809.jpg
    It should be OK but I think it holds 20g the way I do it. I have both the 24.5 and 26.5 baskets.

    I'm not sure of the value of competition baskets except they do maximise extraction...except you may or may not want that. It seems to be the holy grail for light roasts, increasing extraction. The baskets from IMS definitely require a slightly finer grind.

    Setup looks very nice.

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Very "schmick" indeed 'Sr'...

    Mal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeprequired View Post
    - also I noticed my pucks were quite wet too, I was tamping to roughly where a ridge would be if the basket was ridged. The pucks weren’t as dry as I’m used to seeing so not sure what was happening there.
    Nice set up! Sounds like you're definately in the ballpark with only some minor tweaking to figure out as you go. I only have a couple of suggestions:

    FWIW I would take everything WLL say about techniques with a grain of salt. They have some ok rules of thumb to get a complete newbie started but by the time you can do what they say consistently you should have already moved on to more consistent methods. You'll be better off tamping with a consistent pressure rather than a depth. Also you'll be more consistent if your measure your yield in grams.

    If you want suggestions on tamping try this: https://youtu.be/SnieoHAGlds

    The whole "Extract Everything" series by Chris Baca is great.
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Nice set up! Sounds like you're definately in the ballpark with only some minor tweaking to figure out as you go. I only have a couple of suggestions:

    FWIW I would take everything WLL say about techniques with a grain of salt. They have some ok rules of thumb to get a complete newbie started but by the time you can do what they say consistently you should have already moved on to more consistent methods. You'll be better off tamping with a consistent pressure rather than a depth. Also you'll be more consistent if your measure your yield in grams.

    If you want suggestions on tamping try this: https://youtu.be/SnieoHAGlds

    The whole "Extract Everything" series by Chris Baca is great.
    thank you all for the assistance. I bailed on the IMS basket because i want to be able to run 22's for doing 2 coffees at once, and maybe a 15 / 18 for my doubles when i'm in the mood and from what i can tell the only ones that can do that are the VST's.

    Jeez didn't i have a hard time dialling in the grinder after changing baskets. Beans ran out half way through dialling in too just to throw a spanner in the works I had a laugh.

    ah his video on frothing is awesome!! thanks for that.

  8. #8
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    I've never used the V Titan, but most grinders have levels in the hopper that keep grind outputs consistent for a given setting. E.g. with the hopper completely full your shot will pour slower than with it nearly empty even without changing the grind setting. Until you figure out exactly where the invisible lines are that you shouldn't cross, a good rule of thumb is to assume they're at 1/3 and 2/3 of the vertical height of the hopper above the grinder. I would suggest not letting the beans get below 1/3 and topping up only to 2/3. This ought to make dialling in easier (and cheaper!)
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    I just top up my grinder to the bottom of the hopper so just fill the neck of the Robur and top it up after each shot. It depends on the grinder. If I let mine say run out mid shot then add more beans (just enough) then it will grind coarser but that circumstance rarely happens.

    Some Robur owners remove the hopper and just put their beans into the neck and make a cover for it.

    Whatever you have you adapt to in different ways.

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    A lot of grinder manufacturers actually install a shield above the throat of the hopper to control the weight of beans entering the grind chamber. So long as you keep the quantity of beans in the hopper above this shield, your grind output will be consistent. People often refer to this as a "Finger Guard" but that's not its primary function...

    Mal.

    Mazzer-Kony-Hopper-Complete.jpg

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    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Wow, Mal, I didn't known that...I was in the finger guard camp until you enlightened me. Nice to keep learning from the wisdom of others.

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    Ah yes the Titan has one of those. In that case I should ensure the coffee is up to the shield at all times. Good to know.

    it’s a very steep learning curve but I do love a challenge.

    im going a bit of reading on extraction and learning that a double shot done ristretto would mean pulling 18g baskets at 36g and lower. I’ve been pulling 45-60, no wonder my lattes are so strong when I have them.

    my glasses are 250ml, how would you guys recommend to setup shots for lattes? I’m thinking of ordering the 7g and 15g, but if you have some advice or know a thread that explain it that’d be great.

    I hust read one where the ‘recipe’ is 18g, 27s extraction, 30g out. Is this how I should be doing it or extract more on a smaller basket?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    A lot of grinder manufacturers actually install a shield above the throat of the hopper to control the weight of beans entering the grind chamber. So long as you keep the quantity of beans in the hopper above this shield, your grind output will be consistent. People often refer to this as a "Finger Guard" but that's not its primary function...

    Mal.

    Mazzer-Kony-Hopper-Complete.jpg
    Well, if I did that for the Robur it would be several weeks of beans.... I think even for the V-Titan it would be a lot of coffee.

    Just filling it into the throat of any hopper may be enough, you just need to experiment.

    I take the point that it is to reduce pressure on the grinding chamber but in home use it is probably unlikely it will ever get filled up to there.

  14. #14
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    Pulling 36 grams of coffee is more of an extended double than a ristretto which would be at most half that size ( but still using 18 grams of grounds).

    How much coffee do you want in your latte? Whatever tastes good. I find that about 160 mls of coffe, once steamed, fills the cup to the very top, including about 10-15 mls of froth.

    The coffee amount in there would be about 18 grams. We haven't used sugar for decades, but again it's up to personal taste...and probably habit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    A lot of grinder manufacturers actually install a shield above the throat of the hopper to control the weight of beans entering the grind chamber. So long as you keep the quantity of beans in the hopper above this shield, your grind output will be consistent. People often refer to this as a "Finger Guard" but that's not its primary function...

    Mal.
    My experience is hardly universal, but I've only every used one grinder where that seemed to be the case, the Mahlkoenig Vario was happy as long as you kept the beans above the neck and didn't seem to have an upper limit (perhaps due to the small hopper). Every other grinder I've used has these two invisible thresholds. Even though the weight is not going vertically down on the beans in the throat, surely the weight pushing down around the guard must change with the weight of beans above it, even if only from the beans sitting in the outside part of the hopper that's wider than the neck? I feel some science coming on, home made jigs to hold a hopper hovering over some scales so only the beans are touching it, but alas I have a hopperless Niche. Will have to borrow one... or six.
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  16. #16
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    There are quite a few small 'home use specific' hoppers for various grinders that still use the shield fitted above the throat, for the same reasons but requires a smaller quantity of beans to maintain consistency.

    Not saying everyone should fill-up their bean hoppers, was just intended as a bit of coffee-lover trivia...

    Mal.
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    Yeah I purchased mine and they’re going to include the 500g hooper instead of the 1kg. Should be a bit more manageable and I think it looks better
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    Quote Originally Posted by robusto View Post
    Pulling 36 grams of coffee is more of an extended double than a ristretto which would be at most half that size ( but still using 18 grams of grounds).

    How much coffee do you want in your latte? Whatever tastes good. I find that about 160 mls of coffe, once steamed, fills the cup to the very top, including about 10-15 mls of froth.

    The coffee amount in there would be about 18 grams. We haven't used sugar for decades, but again it's up to personal taste...and probably habit.
    right so a true 1 to 1. Is that the best way to go are do you get a better flavour from a 1:2 with say a single basket? Not sure what to do really.

    what do good cafes do? Will they give you 20-30ml with an 15/18g VST?

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter what other people are doing if they use different coffee to you. Different beans will taste best at different ratios, and those will be different to different people. My advice would be to stick with between 1:1.5-1:2 until you get a handle on things (pick somewhere in that range and stick to it). But as always there's no reason you can't try a few different ratios and see what you like best.
    Last edited by level3ninja; 22nd October 2019 at 05:44 AM. Reason: Autocucumber
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    It doesn't matter what other people are doing if they use different coffee to you. Different brands will taste best at different ratios, and those will be different to different people. My advice would be to stick with between 1:1.5-1:2 until you get a handle on things (pick somewhere in that range and stick to it). But as always there's no reason you can't try a few different ratios and see what you like best.
    sounds like a plan. Gives me a target for what basket to use & when. The problem with gaining experience with espresso is you can’t go around 10 double shots in every day until you master it, or I can’t anyway.
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    Picked up the same Sync & V-Titan earlier this year SR - have been loving the tweaking and experimentation. I have found I get consistent shots with the hopper at least 1/3 full, and no real negative affects if I fill it up. Food for thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawk87 View Post
    Picked up the same Sync & V-Titan earlier this year SR - have been loving the tweaking and experimentation. I have found I get consistent shots with the hopper at least 1/3 full, and no real negative affects if I fill it up. Food for thought.
    that’s great! I ended up swapping out the v-Titan for a niche zero. I wasn’t sure what type of coffee person I would be, hopper or single dose until I bought the grinder. Turns out I’m firmly in the single dose camp.
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    I just bought the exact same combo, and I'm absolutely loving it! I'm having a bit of difficulty dialing in the grind and the dosing with the Titan - it seems that the default grind times are incredibly long and i end up with way too much coffee to tamp down.
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    Does take a bit of trial and error with the titan as it's not simple to stop and start the grinder quickly. You can of course reduce the grind time by pressing both buttons at once then press plus to change T1 or - to go to T2 (then plus to modify it). Once your grind is right on, change the timer and once dialed it keeps to within about .2 of a gram I find.

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    Yeah i've already reduced the grind down for the double down 0.4 seconds, but i'm still getting way too much. And it doesnt seem fine enough yet - I'm tamping down hard enough i think, but first drip is in between 0.3 and 0.5 seconds, rather than what i've seen suggested at about 10.

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    How many grams of coffee are you dosing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by golgy View Post
    Yeah i've already reduced the grind down for the double down 0.4 seconds, but i'm still getting way too much. And it doesnt seem fine enough yet - I'm tamping down hard enough i think, but first drip is in between 0.3 and 0.5 seconds, rather than what i've seen suggested at about 10.
    Tighten the grind yet? The collar is tightened by turning the dial/knob away from you (clockwise). Dont forget to only tighten the burrs while they're running

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    https://clivecoffee.zendesk.com/hc/e...-Dial-In-Video

    This page might be of some help - youtube vid of Titan Setup and dialing in.

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    As you'll see in the video - there is an order of things to address, with the dose timer coming last (once everything else is perfect).

    Have fun!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawk87 View Post
    Tighten the grind yet? The collar is tightened by turning the dial/knob away from you (clockwise). Dont forget to only tighten the burrs while they're running
    Yeah I've tightened it a bit, only by small amounts while it's stopped, as an incremental test to try and dial into my desired grind. It's just taking awhile, i guess.

    I prefer to have long blacks, so I'm definitely wanting to be on the larger side of dose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golgy View Post
    Yeah I've tightened it a bit, only by small amounts while it's stopped, as an incremental test to try and dial into my desired grind. It's just taking awhile, i guess.

    I prefer to have long blacks, so I'm definitely wanting to be on the larger side of dose.
    Dose is likely dependant on your basket size and what works to create the taste/shot you prefer. I normally overdose my 18g VST basket, and have a shorter/ristretto-type yield: 19g in 30ish out in 25 or so seconds.



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