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Thread: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

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    New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Im opening a cafe in Braidwood NSW shortly. Most of my custom will be people traveling between Canberra and the coast so takeaways will be a big seller but theres also a big enough local population to sell quite a bit of coffee if I can win a good share of their business.

    Id love to get myself a La Marzocco 2 group but it would mean re-shuffling my budget quite significantly. Is there a machine in the $3000 to $6000 range that can come close to delivering this type of quality or am I better off just biting the bullet?

    Also, whilst I can make a very nice cappuccino and have one staff who has some training, is there anyone in the Canberra region that is available to travel down to Braidwood (about an hours drive) for training?

    :)







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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Welcome to CS Damo!

    Im not the best person to comment on the relative quality of different machines in the top end. If youre able to get a LM then Im sure youd be very happy with its results; but there are a number of cafes that can produce very very good coffee with regular HX machines given good techique, even if its not to quite the standard a LM or Synesso could produce.

    I guess a lot depends if youre trying to produce the pinnacle of espresso excellence or are targeting a more general audience. If youre after the best of the best results and you have the staff trained to run the machine properly, then bite the bullet as theyll hit the limits of the cheaper ones; but if youre not targeting the ristretto purists then there are plenty of machines in your price range that will do a good job. If you know what youre looking for, 2 and 3 groups regularly come up on eBay for around the $1000-$2000 mark, mainly just because theyre so hard to get rid of so you can get yourself a good bargain with those and flog it off without losing much if you find you want to upgrade once youve got some cash behind you down the track.

    Of course without adequate training youll likely not notice the difference between them so this is definitely a must. One of our site sponsors, CosmoreX, is located in Canberra; check out http://www.cosmorexcoffee.com.au/training.htm. Attilio is one of my customers and hes a great bloke and Im sure would be happy to help out or refer you to someone who can. Alternatively we have other sponsors who conduct training, Talk Coffee in Melbourne for example, but youd have to cover their travel and accommodation expenses so Id start with CosmoreX. Hed also be able to give you some machine tips.

    Good luck!

    Greg

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    The common theme in cafes is right equipment in the wrong hands, compounded by wrong beans.

    Staff are "trained" to push that button, open that valve, without actually knowing anything about WHY they are doing it.

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Hi Damo,

    As much as they are hyped, you do not need a twin boiler machine to produce a great espresso. At the $6000 mark you should be able to get a good hx machine. Barista technique and the coffee you are using will account for 90% of what is in the cup. When buying a machine you need to keep in mind how easily it can be serviced, including location of techs to carry out the work in a hurry. Try site-sponsor Cosmorex, tehy are local to you.

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Thanks very much for the welcome and the response Greg. Ill certainly get onto Cosmorex for some training.

    Any advice on the models I should be keeping an eye out for? I think if there is a model as you say for under $3000 that can produce a good result Ill head this direction and consider upgrading after evaluating trade for a few months.

    Thanks again. :)

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1197450139/0#2 date=1197452482
    The common theme in cafes is right equipment in the wrong hands, compounded by wrong beans.

    Staff are "trained" to push that button, open that valve, without actually knowing anything about WHY they are doing it.
    Yeah you dont need to go into too many cafes or coffee bars these days to see that formula in action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer Roaster link=1197450139/0#3 date=1197452585
    Hi Damo,

    As much as they are hyped, you do not need a twin boiler machine to produce a great espresso. At the $6000 mark you should be able to get a good hx machine. Barista technique and the coffee you are using will account for 90% of what is in the cup. When buying a machine you need to keep in mind how easily it can be serviced, including location of techs to carry out the work in a hurry. Try site-sponsor Cosmorex, tehy are local to you.
    Thanks PR, any recommendations on the models to look out for?

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    There are many manufacturers out there, some are excellent, many are good and some are ordinary. If youre considering looking on eBay, Id do a search for 2 group in the coffee machine section and investigate what you find. However eBay is always risky as you dont know what youre getting or have any reference on the seller, which is why its not officially endorsed here on CS nor are eBay links allowed. But a lot of us tend to lurk there on the quiet! :)

    A much better option would be to look at the for sale section here on CS, and at the moment I see a Faema 3 group for $1850 http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1190020431 which is a bargain if youre prepared to spend $100 on petrol driving to Geelong to collect it. Generally speaking, CS members are CS members because theyre fanatical about their coffee and like to keep it in top condition, so youre normally quite safe buying from a CS member. At least take a look. Otherwise check with CosmoreX.

    As weve all said, staff training is more important than the machine in many ways, and only well trained staff will be able to bring results from a top end machine. So I wouldnt really recommend going down that path unless you will be going top quality coffee (i.e. looking at the whole process from bean to roast to grinders to training to water to tampers), or have money to burn and just want to look fancy.

    Greg

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Greg, Id at least double the petrol budget for a pick up from Geelong!

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Heh, yeah petrol prices arent what they used to be.

    Im certainly not looking to blow a lot of money on looking fancy. Myself and my staff will put the required effort into getting the most out of whatever machine we get. Not sure if I have the capacity to roast my own coffee though. Would you say thats a necessary factor in producing a result worthy of a high end machine?

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Depends what you drive! ;) Seriously, Id be looking at this machine as a first point of call unless youre fixed on a new machine; and remember that if you get a new one and want to sell it in a couple of years time, youll most likely get no more than those on eBay are getting for theirs which is a big loss on a $6k purchase. :o I dont know a lot about it but there is a thread about that machine started here not long ago by Identity I think.

    Freshly roasted beans is critical for good espresso; the best LM will produce garbage with old beans. Roasting your own beans is one way to achieve this but unless you know what youre doing youd be better off getting a commercial roaster to do it on your behalf. Most will happily recommend a blend they find works well, or theyll roast a blend you specify to your specifications. Good quality roasting equipment is at least as expensive as the machines were discussing here, they require space and council approvals, and of course time to perform the roasting which may or may not be a luxury you have.

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    OK cool, thats what Id thought. By commercial roaster do you mean a larger coffee distributor like Cosmorex?

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Just edited my post, read back over it.

    Not sure if CosmoreX do their own roasting but theyll be able to put you onto someone who does in your local area. I know there are some excellent roasters in Melbourne who would be able to freight it to you if you cant find anyone locally. Maybe contact site sponsor Veneziano if you get stuck and see what theyd be able to work out for you. Have a look through the list of site sponsors over there <------ and you should be able to find some good resources.

    Greg

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Pullman link=1197450139/0#11 date=1197455733
    Just edited my post, read back over it.

    Not sure if CosmoreX do their own roasting but theyll be able to put you onto someone who does in your local area. I know there are some excellent roasters in Melbourne who would be able to freight it to you if you cant find anyone locally. Maybe contact site sponsor Veneziano if you get stuck and see what theyd be able to work out for you. Have a look through the list of site sponsors over there <------ and you should be able to find some good resources.

    Greg
    Attilio said hes not sure if you manufacture tampers either Greg! ;D

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Damo, check this out...

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1197414312/0#0

    if Chris still has the La Spaziale in the following thread for sale then my suggestion is that you grab it!

    Reportedly a great machine, and its on offer at a great price!

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    I was just trying to figure out when I was going to drive to Geelong haha.

    Thanks Dennis. Ill call him tomorrow.

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1197450139/0#13 date=1197460480
    Damo, check this out...

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1197414312/0#0

    if Chris still has the La Spaziale in the following thread for sale then my suggestion is that you grab it!

    Reportedly a great machine, and its on offer at a great price!
    Great savings on RRP for sure Dennis; but its only a 1 group and Damo was looking for a 2 group. :-? I sure wouldnt want to be running a high volume bar with a 1 group machine... but if you reckon itll work for you Damo at that price then go for it!

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    I guess it all depends on what sort of volume the bar will do Greg :-?

    The Vivaldi II is one amazing machine and can be compared with the BIG two in many ways...

    I am seriously thinking of putting one on the bench in the new abode- to replace the Veneziano...or should it just be a GS3?? 8-)

    Chris

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Two of these would still come within the buget Greg. Damo could always start with one and see if the volume warrants another. Am sure Chris would come up with a great deal.

    Other pluses...I think these machines will hold their value far better, and easier to dispose of if the need ever arose. Also, if one machine was out of action for any reason, can always count on the other.

    All just ideas of different ways of doing things.

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Sorry, I should have mentioned earlier that I expect to be flat out when people are on their way to and from Canberra and during weekends but relatively quiet most other times. For that reason I guess a 2 group might be more practical.

    I saw in town today an Astoria 2 group for $1000. It looks in cosmetically good condition and the owner says it works well but hasnt been operating for around a year. I looked on Ebay and saw a similar model (3 group not 2 though) for $2800. Being in town is obviously a big plus but only if its a worthwhile machine. Any thoughts?

    And thanks again for the responses, I really appreciate the help. :)

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1197450139/15#16 date=1197522484
    I guess it all depends on what sort of volume the bar will do Greg :-?
    Of course; but Damo indicated in his opening post he was considering a 2 group LM, so I guess its fair to say its a 2 group hes after. But Dennis makes a good point that its a bonus to have a second machine in case one goes down, so depending on your budget you might consider two of these Damo.

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    I guess the question has to be then would the difference in quality between the La Spaziale and say the Faema or Astoria warrant the extra cost?

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Ill let Chris go into the specifics, but the LS is a dual boiler with very precise electronic temperature control. The others are regular heat exchanger machines (I believe) which are more or less preset to a particular temperature without lifting the lid. Still capable of excellent results, but less flexibility but also less electronics to fail. Also the LS is new and comes with a warranty and proven vendor support, whereas I doubt youd get that on the others.

    Have a chat with Chris, hes not known for pushing a product just because it means a sale. We all here tend to subscribe to the view that you give the customer what they want, not what you want them to want! ;D

    Greg

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Quote Originally Posted by DamoB link=1197450139/15#20 date=1197528090
    I guess the question has to be then would the difference in quality between the La Spaziale and say the Faema or Astoria warrant the extra cost?
    In a word yes...

    There is huge risk in buying an unknown machine for a commercial venture. You need reliability and need to know the history of an older machine- as well as someone to maintain it....

    Pre-loved is fine in a home, but if youre trying to make a buck do it right...No machine = no takings...meanwhile, the expenses mount.

    If you anticipate being busy, you will need more than a 1 group machine.

    Have a chat with Attilio as a start and potential end point and do it right ;)

    Chris

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Cool, thanks for that Chris. Sounds kind of what I was thinking originally. I have already contacted Barazi about the Elise 2 group, which is slightly less than 2 LS machines. Am I right in thinking this is also a very good machine?

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Damob,

    Have you consider to "rent and try" the machine before you commit your self.

    We have a contact with a company that can do this for you. If you are interested pm me or give us a call. I can do any machines.


    Regards



    Renzo

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    For the money you may as well jump up to a 3 group Marzocco....youll thank yourself later when youre getting ass-pumped with orders.

    Yes, very good coffee can be had from a single boiler heat exchanger. But there are a few problems with heat exchangers than La Marzocco has over these machines.

    Take for example the heat exchanger heating. Broken down, we can think of it as almost cyclical like a sine wave. So 1 in every few shots may be the "perfect" shot but every other one will either be sour or bitter. La Marzocco FB80 and GB5s have less than 0.1 deg C accuracy. La Marzocco Lineas with a 1 deg C accuracy (even with a PID on it)....but still a hell of a lot better than Heat Exchanger machines.

    I can tell you from personal experience, going from a San Marino to BFC to Azkoyen to Marzocco....there is no comparison.

    Whatever machine you decide to go with....whether it be a San Marino Lisa or a La Marzocco GB5, never rent from a coffee company....you ALWAYS pay for your machine even if it is "free". Buy new....save yourself the heart ache when your 2nd hand machine dies in the middle of lunch trade and the repair bill comes in for nearly the price of a new machine. Machine techs rake in the money. $200 call out fee, $100 per hour labour charge...plus machine parts charges with markups.


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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Id say go for something new. Having a reliable machine is very important and if a tech who knows your machine is only a short drive away its even better. I know of people who have opened with 2nd hand machines and regretted it. Rather get things like fridges 2nd hand and splash out on a new machine. Buy local too (as much as I would like a sale) because having support close is essential.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1197450139/15#25 date=1197555919
    For the money you may as well jump up to a 3 group Marzocco....youll thank yourself later when youre getting ass-pumped with orders.
    How can you compare the price of a 3 group Marzocco to a 2 group Hx machine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1197450139/15#25 date=1197555919
    Yes, very good coffee can be had from a single boiler heat exchanger. But there are a few problems with heat exchangers than La Marzocco has over these machines.

    Take for example the heat exchanger heating. Broken down, we can think of it as almost cyclical like a sine wave. So 1 in every few shots may be the "perfect" shot but every other one will either be sour or bitter. La Marzocco FB80 and GB5s have less than 0.1 deg C accuracy. La Marzocco Lineas with a 1 deg C accuracy (even with a PID on it)....but still a hell of a lot better than Heat Exchanger machines.
    While I acknowledge this is not the place to debate hx Vs dual boiler, but you have given a grossly one sided commentry.
    Firstly, unless the marzocco is PID then you will still have fluctuations. Heating water in a boiler has the same characteristics wether its a big boiler in a hx or a little boiler in a dual. The small boiler of a dual boiler machine means the fluctuations are easier to control but there is a trade off. The big down fall of all dual boilers machines is inferior (de-oxygenated) water quality due to your brew water being in contact with an element. While a good hx machine may fluctuate by a degree or two (if that) in the boiler, the hx(where water actually comes from) and group head reduce this fluctuation with each thermal transfer.

    Marzocco boards are prone to failure in the wrong hands, what is the cost these days? $2k+, not to mention down time?
    Their are many bad machines of both type. Id take my 3 group ECM Michealangelo over a marzocco any day, try run that down or get a fluctuation.

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Well said, PioneerRoaster.... a Damo comes on to the forum with a budget of $3000-$6000 for a start-up venture which may or may not return dividends.

    All he wants is a 2-grouper and feels the LM is going to blow the budget.

    And he is advised to go for broke on a 3-GROUP LM which most high-turnover cafes making a mint (irrespective of that little shortcoming) wont even have!!


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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    That last point is the one which affects me most. Yes I want to provide brilliant coffee, but as Greg asked earlier - are the majority of my customers going to notice the difference between using a decent machine and a LM to make the outlay worthwhile initially? Will having beautiful fresh beans, a top end grinder, tampers etc. and well trained staff be enough to win the traveling holiday crowd?

    For instance, the bloke who has the Astoria in town is an honest guy as far as I know, the machine looks very good cosmetically and he tells me it was working perfectly when last in use and has low mileage due to being used in a restaurant that was only open 3 nights a week. He is happy to let me take it, set it up and test it out for a couple of weeks before I open. Will this machine, if it runs well, produce a good result given everything else is done well?

    As I see it, if it will Im better off buying this machine to start with. The bean companies Ive spoken to will all come and have a look at whatever machine I have before I open. If it turns out to be OK to use initially, I can evaluate my trade and if it warrants it purchase a higher end machine. The Astoria would then be a handy back up which I havent had to pay much for.

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Ill let others comment on the machines as theyre not my area of expertise (tampers yes, machines no :)). But the shackles stood up when I read "bean companies". By that I *hope* you mean a well-reputed local roaster as opposed to one of the regular chains? Id avoid them like the plague even if, as they often do, they throw in a free machine and lock you into buying x years of beans of unspecified age. Purchase direct from a roaster youve built a relationship with and youll know exactly what youre getting and on exactly how many days out of roast it needs to be used. If you make the decision on the equipment and materials you use, youll be the one in control of what you produce.

    Greg

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Yeah sorry, beginners terminology on my behalf Im afraid. I had spoken to Monte coffee on recommendation from quite a few friends but since reading a lot of the opinions here Ive contacted Allpress in Sydney. Ive had a lot of other things on my plate (Im opening a small guitar shop in the same premises) but Ill be checking out local roasters in Canberra too.

    I still have to buy tampers too Greg. Any suggestions? :)

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Phew! :) I dont personally know anything about the state of the coffee youd get from Allpress or Monte, so Id recommend chatting to Attilio at CosmoreX to see who he recommends in your area. Roasting is an art in its own right so just any local roaster wont necessarily do, and thats where local knowledge comes in handy.

    Re tampers, check out my site and see what you think ;). Honestly, tampers are a personal thing; we think our tampers do the job theyre designed to do very well and there are heaps of CSers happy with Pullman tampers; but there are also those who are very happy with other tampers. Veneziano sell the Espro and Coffeelab, Talk Coffee sell Pullman and the Coffeelab, Di Bartoli have one of their own and Coffeeparts have several to choose from. So by all means look at what we have to offer, wed love to help out; but do your homework, ask questions of others and see whats going to work best for you. If you can arrange it, see if you can physically inspect some of the ones youre considering; CosmoreX sell our tampers but I think they sell some others too. If you do your homework on all your equipment first (as youre doing with the machine [smiley=thumbsup.gif]), hopefully youll only have to do it all once!

    Id recommend starting a new thread or adding to an existing one if you want to discuss tampers so this thread stays on the topic of machine recommendations.

    Greg

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Ive been drinking some Allpress lately at work and its the best one there.
    The others use Piazza Doro and other brands, none of which they do well enough to satisfy me.

    But Im not sure what sort of deals they do.
    I assume the cafe at work using the Allpress is tied to a deal, considering the nice new big shiny LM they are using.

    I too recommend buying a machine and not tying yourself to a roaster.
    Youll save money in the long run by not overpaying for the beans every week.

    Find a good local roaster that you are happy with and go from there.

    Fresh beans served well will get you the business by way of word of mouth.

    Run of the mill coffee will just add you to the list of mediocre cafes, of which there are plenty.

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Quote Originally Posted by DamoB link=1197450139/15#28 date=1197588926
    For instance, the bloke who has the Astoria in town is an honest guy as far as I know, the machine looks very good cosmetically and he tells me it was working perfectly when last in use and has low mileage due to being used in a restaurant that was only open 3 nights a week. He is happy to let me take it, set it up and test it out for a couple of weeks before I open.
    This is a great idea and possibly your best option. If you are able to run it for a while than even with a full service and looking over from a tech you will still be ahead financially.

    Quote Originally Posted by DamoB link=1197450139/15#28 date=1197588926
    Will this machine, if it runs well, produce a good result given everything else is done well?
    Given everything else is done well, yes. As Mr Pullman said, give Attilio a call regarding coffee supply. It is going to be alot better than anything that relies on brand image, and the local roaster is a good selling point to tourists. Give them a sample of what your area has to offer!!!


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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    PR, my food is all about that so I guess it only makes sense that my coffee should be too. Thanks :)


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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    At risk of going majorly offtrack, Ill just reply really quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer Roaster link=1197450139/15#26 date=1197583138
    How can you compare the price of a 3 group Marzocco to a 2 group Hx machine?
    I cant..I read that he was looking at Marzocco..and if he was going to get one, he may as well get a 3 group. The price difference between the two is around $2000.


    While I acknowledge this is not the place to debate hx Vs dual boiler, but you have given a grossly one sided commentry.
    Firstly, unless the marzocco is PID then you will still have fluctuations. Heating water in a boiler has the same characteristics wether its a big boiler in a hx or a little boiler in a dual. The small boiler of a dual boiler machine means the fluctuations are easier to control but there is a trade off. The big down fall of all dual boilers machines is inferior (de-oxygenated) water quality due to your brew water being in contact with an element. While a good hx machine may fluctuate by a degree or two (if that) in the boiler, the hx(where water actually comes from) and group head reduce this fluctuation with each thermal transfer.
    My point is, even a La Marzocco Linea with a PID installed will still have a 1 degree C fluctuation. Flush a Marzocco and you get a steady stream of water....flush a HX and youll get sizzling water for a few seconds. Yes you can bring the pressure down....but that will inherently bring the brew temp down....below optimum temperature. Im not saying La Marzocco is the be all and end all. "The proof is in the cup."

    I think theres a reason why Australias top barsitas only want to work on La Marzocco and Synesso.

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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    What I sense here is a lot of ....snob value. (How surprising for this site!!)

    Damos request for assistance has been turneed into an inappropriate debate about the virtues of La Marzocco.

    Im certain Damo does not have to go to that length and expense to achieve his goal of turning out good quality coffees and make a dollar or two out of the enterprise.






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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes - David S link=1197450139/30#35 date=1197599711
    I think theres a reason why Australias top baristas only want to work on La Marzocco and Synesso.
    Well, as one of Australias top baristas, Im quite happy working on my Nuova Simonelli! ;D ;D

  39. #39
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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Whoa whoa whoa!

    Its been stated earlier in this thread that machines like the LM and Synesso *are capable* of better results in the right hands so I totally agree with the theory of what youre saying David and acknowledge the basis for your comments. What wasnt initially clear was whether or not Damo is looking for a machine with those sorts of capabilities, or whether a much cheaper HX machine would be satisfactory for what he needs. *If so*, if so, then as Robusto has said theres no point spending that sort of money on a machine that may never repay the investment, and debate on DB vs HX becomes irrelevant to this particular discussion.

    Its all horses for courses; Damo just needs to decide which course his horse will be running on! :) I think hes indicated his planned direction since Davids initial post, but I guess until the moneys been handed over theres always room for him to reconsider his priorities.

    Greg

  40. #40
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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Well well well look what I just found!

    Have been oblivious to CS for a few days and only just ran across this, were short on staff and Ive been doing some (god forbid) physical stuff with the others in the roasterie.

    It has taken a little while for me to read this thread from start to here.

    In view of the several recommendations by participants for Damo to call us, I would like to extend a big thank you to those that have lent support to my company here.

    I am puzzled however by Damos mention (bottom of page 1?) of us being a "large coffee distributor"???????? We are Canberras original local roaster and if personal service is what you are looking for, you will get that from us. Were not THAT big hehe. *;)

    Secondly, I would take particular note of the things that Pioneer Roaster has mentioned in his several replies to this topic. I found his advice to Damo (and others) in all different parts to the discussion, to be very level headed & unbiased, designed to be helpful to the client.

    Lastly Greg, also to you, many thanks for your recommendation. It is very much appreciated. I have been roasting coffee in the back of this (and other) building(s) since 1985. The little Probat (and I) pushed out over 900 kgs yesterday. Having a break off the roaster today. Oh by the way, do you make tampers hehehe?????????????

    Regardz,
    FC.

    ;)

  41. #41
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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Sorry FC, as someone not in the know Ive seen youre name around Canberra quite a bit so that was a bit of a faux pas on my part. :-[

    No insult intended. :)

  42. #42
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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    No need to apologise Damo, it was all taken in the right context! ;)

    Regardz,
    FC.

  43. #43
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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh_Coffee link=1197450139/30#39 date=1197603949

    Lastly Greg, also to you, many thanks for your recommendation. It is very much appreciated. I have been roasting coffee in the back of this (and other) building(s) since 1985. The little Probat (and I) pushed out over 900 kgs yesterday. Having a break off the roaster today. Oh by the way, do you make tampers hehehe?????????????

    Regardz,
    FC.

    ;)
    No probs at all, Id gone to your website to hunt down the training link; I knew you did machines but basically I was just too lazy to go back there again to see whether you did beans! :-[ Yes, actually I DO make tampers! :) I think that original comment was a little joke based on the fact that Im selling a bit of roasted coffee now, so some are suggesting this means Ive abandoned my main product! ::) But it certainly was a poor time for me to overlook what must be your main line! ;D

  44. #44
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    Re: New Cafe - Espresso Machine and Training

    I knew this was going to get the post off-track...my apologies...it was mainly directed at Pioneer Coffee as a once off post...and not get everyone so hung up about it and its original intentions.

    My very first post may have been unclear from the begining. It was basically to say...if youre going to fork out the money for a LM 2 group, you may as well splash out on a 3 group. End of story...it wasnt intended to praise the virtues of LM.

    Cheers,

    David



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