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Thread: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

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    Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi All,

    I was wondering if someone could give me some advice. *A friend of mine asked me to have a look at his classic, which had no water flowing from the group. *At his house I plugged it in an sure enough no water. *There was water sucking up one hose and coming out the other in the water tank however. *So I took the machine home, stripped it down and cleaned the boiler, group, opv valve etc and put the machine back together. *Now when I turn the machine on the safety switch trips at my house. *

    I spoke to my friend about this and he said that the machine used to trip the fuse at his old house, also that before it stopped working the machine was left on for an extended period with no water in the boiler. *

    Would I be right in saying that the element is the cause of the safety switch tripping? *The element is the type that is on the outside of the boiler. *Also if it is the element, can anyone suggest a good place to buy a new boiler/element for this machine.

    Cheers.

    BeanBay

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Quote Originally Posted by 42616D42616D000 link=1232229001/0#0 date=1232229001
    Hi All,

    I was wondering if someone could give me some advice. *A friend of mine asked me to have a look at his classic, which had no water flowing from the group. *At his house I plugged it in an sure enough no water. *There was water sucking up one hose and coming out the other in the water tank however. *So I took the machine home, stripped it down and cleaned the boiler, group, opv valve etc and put the machine back together. *Now when I turn the machine on the safety switch trips at my house. *

    I spoke to my friend about this and he said that the machine used to trip the fuse at his old house, also that before it stopped working the machine was left on for an extended period with no water in the boiler. *

    Would I be right in saying that the element is the cause of the safety switch tripping? *The element is the type that is on the outside of the boiler. *Also if it is the element, can anyone suggest a good place to buy a new boiler/element for this machine.

    Cheers.

    BeanBay
    Hi BeanBay,

    If you have access to a multimeter, switch off and unplug the machine and then test resistance across the element. Typically, youd see something in the order of 40-50 ohm. If you get infinite resistance, you need a new element.

    Should that not solve things, its time to get it repaired by a professional.

    Good luck ;)

    2mcm

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Hi 2mcm,

    Thanks heaps for the prompt reply.

    I seem to get 22.3 ohm across each element. *I am guessing by your previous post that this means that possibly the elements are intact. *Thats a bummer because at least if it was that I would know what i need to do to fix it. *Oh well, I guess its off to the scrap heap with this one.

    Cheers

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Quote Originally Posted by 1D3E321D3E325F0 link=1232229001/2#2 date=1232236074
    Hi 2mcm,

    Thanks heaps for the prompt reply.

    I seem to get 22.3 ohm across each element. *I am guessing by your previous post that this means that possibly the elements are intact. *Thats a bummer because at least if it was that I would know what i need to do to fix it. *Oh well, I guess its off to the scrap heap with this one.

    Cheers
    Hmm- seems maybe a little low but I havent previously worked on one. Are you testing across the 2 element terminals?

    If its tripping safety switches and its not an element, the repair may still be inexpensive. I wouldnt send it to the scrap heap quite yet....

    2mcm

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Hi 2mcm,

    Thanks for your reply. *It has two element which are U shaped and go down and back up the left and right side of the outside of the boiler. *

    A photo can be seen here: http://www.shop.partsguru.com/images/product_320_zm.jpg

    I tested the the two terminals of each elements separately. *each element by itself gives the same reading above. *I was thinking maybe the thermostat is causing this?

    BeanBay

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    hi there
    im no expert, but this may be a problem with the 3 -way solenoid valve (given the no water exiting from the group symptom). might be the coil or the solenoid. i ended up replacing both on mine when i had similar symptoms.

    is the machine heating up at all?
    when does the fuse cut in? when pushing to start or to stop the brew water?


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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Hi roknee,

    The safety switch is tripped the second you flip the on switch (as in turn it on at the wall and flip the 1st switch too the left). The other symptoms where there when I tested it at my friends house before I pulled the boiler out and cleaned it up. I have a feeling that It would come on at his house, given that he may not have a safety switch, and the fact that he said it used to trip the safety switch as his old place.

    BeanBay

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Dose anyone know if it is possible that the solenoid value be causing this seeing that the safety switch is tripped as soon as I flip the machine on? If so is there a simple way to test the solenoid similar to 2mcms suggestion with the boiler elements?

    Cheers.

    BeanBay.

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    A_M
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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    With out a megga it is hard to fully test..

    1: What sort of safety switch ? *Earth leakage or Core Balance ?

    You could just *un plug and look at the resistance across A & N... *

    Then from A to E and N to E... *Should be OPEN.

    From here it depends on how the unit is powered on... *Rocker switch or soft touch electronics..

    If a rocker switch, then toggal the *switch on and see what happens ... should go from Open to *a lower resistance and A to E and N to E should still be OPEN.

    The issue is that without electronic test equipment and a reasonable knowledge... *It is not easy to talk some one through... *As there are so many little tricks and things that one does (without thinking) when looking at these types of issues..

    For some, the term binary division may make sense.. *As to a method and I use that in a combination of years of service to solve a problem..

    Picking on parts and replacing is a shotgun approach and should be avoided unless you have no other options.

    Remember Electricity can and does KILL.. Work safe and always test and then re test before touching any thing or plugging in. License required for any work in QLD and NEW laws released this month..

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Hi AngerManagement and thanks for the reply.

    I cant answer a lot of these questions. The safety switch is a Hager CD440t and has an earth fault light on it.

    When you say check the resistance from A to E etc, do you mean at the plug where the power comes in on the machine (with the machine unplugged of course).

    It is a rocker switch.

    Cheers.

    BeanBay.

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Quote Originally Posted by 55767A55767A170 link=1232229001/9#9 date=1232263698
    Hi AngerManagement and thanks for the reply.

    I cant answer a lot of these questions. *The safety switch is a Hager CD440t and has an earth fault light on it.

    When you say check the resistance from A to E etc, do you mean at the plug where the power comes in on the machine (with the machine unplugged of course).

    It is a rocker switch.

    Cheers.

    BeanBay.
    Hi BeanBay,

    For your own safety, I reckon its time to send it for service now ;)

    2mcm

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Quote Originally Posted by 0C2F230C2F234E0 link=1232229001/9#9 date=1232263698
    Hi AngerManagement and thanks for the reply.

    I cant answer a lot of these questions. *The safety switch is a Hager CD440t and has an earth fault light on it.

    When you say check the resistance from A to E etc, do you mean at the plug where the power comes in on the machine (with the machine unplugged of course).

    It is a rocker switch.

    Cheers.

    BeanBay.
    Rocker switch is good...

    Yes... Unplug the cord from the unit and then with the switch OFF.. Check between A & N / A & E / N & E on the plug from the Unit...

    DO NOT STICK anything into the wall socket ... On or OFF

    Then do the same tests with the rocker switch on: Check between A & N / A & E / N & E on the plug from the Unit...

    Note the diferent readings and get back to me...

    PM for a phone number...

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    2mcm, *Thanks for your reply and concern. *I am not about to plug it in and do anything stupid. *However I think you are right, it is just about time. *:).

    AngerManagement,

    Thanks for the reply. *All are open with the switch off. *When the switch is on, looking at the plug straight on, the left and right terminals produce 44.5 ohm, across all others it is open.

    Cheers BeanBay

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    44.5 OHM is a little LOW... Depending on the actual wiring config etc..

    As 2mcm said ... Service person time....

    Without the tools and cct diag and a solid understanding of electronics etc you could not only stuff your machine, but hurt your self or even cause a fire in teh house wiring...

    Better safe than sorry.

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Ok thanks AngerManagement, This might be a little left of field but... It has a standard kettle like lead, the ones you also use for computers. Are these ever faulty? I can probably scrounge one up around here somewhere to give it a try.

    Thanks again.

    BeanBay

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Quote Originally Posted by 4D6E624D6E620F0 link=1232229001/14#14 date=1232266119
    Ok thanks AngerManagement, This might be a little left of field but... *It has a standard kettle like lead, the ones you also use for computers. *Are these ever faulty? *I can probably scrounge one up around here somewhere to give it a try.

    Thanks again.

    BeanBay
    They can become faulty ... But as every thing is OK until you flick the switch on your machine, then that tels me that it is something after the rocker switch... Thus internal.

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Ah I see, well thank you so much for taking the time. If your ever down the gold coast let me know I would be happy to try and get you a decent shot out of my silvia :).

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E5D517E5D513C0 link=1232229001/16#16 date=1232268352
    Ah I see, *well thank you so much for taking the time. *If your ever down the gold coast let me know I would be happy to try and get you a decent shot out of my silvia *:).
    Do get down to Southport for work on occasions...

    Will look you up at some stage...

    Trust the fix ends up being simple and your up and running ASAP.

    Let us know what the outcome is.

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Just to be sure, you didnt swap a neutral lead with a ground lead when plugging all the connectors back together did you?

    If you were in Melbourne, Id give you a hand (dont junk it...).

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Hi kaanage,

    Thanks for the reply. I didnt actually unplug the the connectors to the power plug on the back or any of the ones going to the switches on the front. I just unplugged the pump, thermostats and wires to the elements to get the boiler out for service. I was fairly careful to draw diagrams and put all the wires back in place, but I might just double check,

    Cheers.

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Quote Originally Posted by 694A46694A462B0 link=1232229001/19#19 date=1233227770
    Hi kaanage,

    Thanks for the reply. *I didnt actually unplug the the connectors to the power plug on the back or any of the ones going to the switches on the front. *I just unplugged the pump, thermostats and wires to the elements to get the boiler out for service. *I was fairly careful to draw diagrams and put all the wires back in place, but I might just double check,

    Cheers.
    So the outcome is ???

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    No outcome as yet, when it comes to these things I am a bit of a slow mover *;). *I think I am going to try and find a reasonably priced appliance repair person to see if they can isolate the problem for me. *If you costs me a 100 bucks I figure its worth fixing.

    BeanBay

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Ok, so i know it has been ages but I thought I would post an update.

    I finally bit the bullet and I received today, from the fantastic people at Di Bartoli, a brand new element and boiler (they are one in the same on the classic). All that is left is to install it and see if my gamble paid off. Thankfully the element/boiler is not an expensive commodity so we shall see.


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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Boiler installed and the safety switch problem has been resolved. I am now onto problem 2. I have no water flowing from the group. I i have water flow through the steam wand however and when i activate the pump i can see water flowing straight back into the res. Does this mean that the OPV is stuck open and if so does anyone know how I can fix this (besides replacing it i suppose). I have already tried cleaning the valve and I loosened and tightened it a few times just to try and loosen anything lodged in there but no job.

    Thanks in advance,

    BeanBay.

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Quote Originally Posted by 53707C53707C110 link=1232229001/23#23 date=1239327819
    Does this mean that the OPV is stuck open and if so does anyone know how I can fix this (besides replacing it i suppose). *I have already tried cleaning the valve and I loosened and tightened it a few times just to try and loosen anything lodged in there but no job.
    It would actually be stuck "Closed" BeanBay, in the de-energised state. Is it possible to remove the valve assembly completely away from the machine? If so, this is the best way to clean and service it. After youve done that, it would be worth checking whether the Coil is still healthy before replacing the unit back into the machine.

    If you own a DMM, set the scale to Ohms and then see what sort of resistance you can measure. I cant remember what this would normally be but probably between 60 and 100 Ohms. If you get a much higher reading or Infinity, then the coil is cactus and you need a new one. Theyre not very expensive and most of our Sponsors would probably be able to get you one...

    All the best mate :)
    Mal.

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Thanks for the advice mal.

    Both the valves do come away from the unit. I now think that it may be the 3 way solenoid valve as I have been doing a little research and that seems to be a common problem.

    The other thing that leads me to believe that this is the case is i switched on the machine, filled the boiler etc using the steam wand and coffee switch. I then tried it a few times and got the same symptoms above. I then pulled off the OPV valve and the solenoid valve. The thing that struck me was that one of the two holes that attach to the group was completely bone dry while the other was wet. Also when I blow through the inlet on the OPV air comes out of the whole that attaches to the boiler.

    Does anybody have an opinion on this? A new solenoid valve is quite expensive so I dont really want to buy one if it isnt the culprit.

    Cheers.

    BeanBay

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    You may only need to buy a coil BeanBay, not the entire valve assembly....

    Check this troubleshooting and maintenance guide here... Domestic Machine Repairs Although directed at a different machine than yours, the valves will be very similar, if not identical. Valve overhaul is shown down near the bottom of the page....

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Thanks a bunch Mal, I will get a quote for the coil.

    Cheers.

  29. #29
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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    Most welcome BeanBay... :)

    Mal.

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    Re: Gaggia Classic - tripping safty switch

    BeanBay;

    Check if is not some junk on the line between the group head and the solenoid, take the solenoid and with a small wire clean the two holes. As well put the solenoid a apart and clean it (Bombora descale solution will do). It may not be the coil.

    If you need any help to trouble shoot give us a call.

    Renzo
    Di Bartoli Home Barista Centre



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