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Thread: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

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    Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I was happily tampering along (15kg pressure, approximately) when the spout suddenly broke off. *Now I have a semi-nude(?) group handle, which unfortunately splatters coffee around when I use a low cup..
    Before I contact Sunbeam, I would like to know if this has happened to others, and if this is a reasonable warranty issue?

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A46464448250 link=1233651460/0#0 date=1233651460
    I was happily tampering along (15kg pressure, approximately) when the spout suddenly broke off. *Now I have a semi-nude(?) group handle, which unfortunately splatters coffee around when I use a low cup..
    Before I contact Sunbeam, I would like to know if this has happened to others, and if this is a reasonable warranty issue?
    I need a pic to get it firmly in my mind... as to what actually has happened.


    I am guessing one thing but visualizing another... SB can always claim miss use etc however the actual type of damage and any fractures can point to a manufacturing issue..

    We await your pic......

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    When I first got my Em6910, I made the mistake of switching to the single pour spout, only to find that to switch back require a *LOT* more strength to unscrew it.

    I ended up breaking the single pour spout it was locked on so tight.

    Sunbeam were good, I phoned them the next day, and without much more than a clarification of the problem, had a new one in the post for me. Free of charge.

    It sounds like youll need a new portafilter though, so they might ask a few more questions before replacing it.

    On the bright side, if they let you keep the broken one, you can turn it in to a true naked PF.

    Howz at!

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Too late now, but you should not rest the PF on the spout when tamping. Rest the body of the PF on the edge or inner corner of a bench. Watch the DVD that comes with the machine, where they demonstrate this.

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Quote Originally Posted by 7458585A563B0 link=1233651460/0#0 date=1233651460
    Before I contact Sunbeam, I would like to know if this has happened to others, and if this is a reasonable warranty issue?
    Absolutely a warranty issue IMO; it broke under normal use.

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Quote Originally Posted by 2904440 link=1233651460/4#4 date=1233708470
    Before I contact Sunbeam, I would like to know if this has happened to others, and if this is a reasonable warranty issue?

    Absolutely a warranty issue IMO; it broke under normal use.
    Sorry I do not agree... Could be covered, but would argue they could say USER caused... Oh by the way, was the KG applied able to be measured and (documentation acceptable KG by the supplier) that this in in accordance with the user manual... And that evedance is available to show that more was not applied ?

    Sorry - Just being on the other side..

    Quote Originally Posted by 342130213631440 link=1233651460/3#3 date=1233699375
    Too late now, but you should not rest the PF on the spout when tamping. Rest the body of the PF on the edge or inner corner of a bench. Watch the DVD that comes with the machine, where they demonstrate this.
    I agree...

    Tamp bases, the SB DVD and lots of common and public information suggest that one would be expected to know that there is a correct way... Lots of posts on CS as to the issues with benches with rounded corners... Why... Cause you use the BODY and not the spout..

    However if the pics show that there was a casting / machine fault.. Then you have a claim...

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Sunbeam are very good on after-sales service. YOu shouldnt have any problems.

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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Quote Originally Posted by 7D525B594E715D525D5B59515952483C0 link=1233651460/5#5 date=1233717066
    Sorry I do not agree... * Could be covered, but would argue they could say USER caused... *Oh by the way, was the KG applied able to be measured and (documentation acceptable KG by the supplier) that this in in accordance with the user manual... *And that evedance *is available to show that more was not applied ?
    They could argue the case - but I dont believe they would have a leg to stand on, as by the OPs description he has acted in accordance with the manufacturers instructions (user manual). All the manual says on tamping is "Rest the group handle with the filter basket in position onto the benchtop" and "apply firm level packing pressure". Nothing about avoiding pressure on the spout/s; and in fact it is difficult to imagine an interpretation of the first quote as anything other than resting on the spout/s. In addition there is a graphic showing how to tamp, that shows a horizontal PF over a blank background - no PF stand or edge of a benchtop. The instructions regarding tamping pressure are vague; since 15Kg is something of a standard pressure its reasonable to expect that the ("commercial quality", "cafe-series") PF is capable of withstanding this pressure. The manufacturer could take the case to court and pay an expert witness to discredit the OPs ability to accurately gauge 15 Kg of pressure - but you have to ask yourself whether it would be worth their time and money when were talking about a component that probably costs them less than $20 to produce... Alternatively they could argue that 15Kg exceeds "firm packing pressure", but as above they would come unstuck with Australias consumer protection laws given the claims they make about the machine.

    The existence of after-market accessories or discussion on an internet forum is completely irrelevant. Sunbeam have provided instructions for the use of the machine and by his description of events the OP has complied with them 100%. If it breaks under these circumstances, any warranty claim is valid.

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    I really dont see why theres so much debate about this. Surely, the easiest way to find out if Sunbeam will make good is to --- call Sunbeam.
    I have found their customer service brilliant - and there are scores of examples here of people who have had repairs/replacements well after the warranty has expired.
    In the words of Nike: Just do it!

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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Agree - but the OP did ask for opinions...

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Sorry M@ - thats not a dig at you. I just dont see why everyone is torturing their brains when in all probability, Poppy will just say "Ill put one in the mail to you today!". Sure, if they dont play ball, we can get our collective legal opnions together....

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Who cares how a lawyer brain would twist reality? *::)

    Bottom line is: "Its broken, I need a new one."

    A reasonable follow up question is: "What can I do to make sure it doesnt happen again?"

    That question has been answered.

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    I tried taking a photo *- it always came out fuzzy. I guess I have to re-read that manual. What one can see is that the group handle shows no marks except a small (0.5 x 2.0 mm) chip missing from the edge of the hole. *The threaded part onto which the spout is screwed shows a break surface on 90 degrees of the circumference (and yes, it has a extra piece corresponding to the missing chip). *3/4 of the rim has no break indication - it probably was not fastened properly to the group handle.

    However, today I called Sunbeam (1800025059) speaking with "Debbie". I was told that I must have damaged the spout by use of excessive force, alternatively I must have dropped it and damaged it that way. Further, "the group handle is an accessory and therefore not covered by any warranty". * The only thing I could do was to buy a new group handle(!).
    After some discussion, when I refused to accept "Debbies" statements, I was told to take the parts to a service centre - which would be unlikely to give me any satisfaction.
    And Sunbeam calls that "Customer Service"!

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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    My next move would be to call again and hope for someone else. Ive had the dubious pleasure of a conversation with Debbie myself, with very similar results. Someone here may be able to PM you with Poppys email address...

    Blaming the customer with no investigation is very poor form; it is possible that their assessment is correct, but unlikely given your description and at the very least they should entertain the possibility of a manufacturing default. From the sound of it Debbie basically accused you of lying?

    As for the claim that accessories arent covered under warranty... :-X

    If you dont get anywhere with a further polite inquiry, perhaps mention that you are thinking of taking it up with consumer affairs.

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Quote Originally Posted by 537E3E0 link=1233651460/13#13 date=1233809977
    As for the claim that accessories arent covered under warranty
    I dont consider a group handle an accessory.
    The machine is useless without one.

    A jug is an accessory.

    Like m@ said, call again at a different part of the day, very early might be best, before too many grumpy customers have called.
    Hopefully youll get someone else, if not, just hang up and try again until you do.

    Ive made a few calls to Sunbeam and only struck a grump once.


    P.S. Dont mention your previous call.

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F7373717D100 link=1233651460/12#12 date=1233808868
    I tried taking a photo *- it always came out fuzzy. I guess I have to re-read that manual. What one can see is that the group handle shows no marks except a small (0.5 x 2.0 mm) chip missing from the edge of the hole. *The threaded part onto which the spout is screwed shows a break surface on 90 degrees of the circumference (and yes, it has a extra piece corresponding to the missing chip). *3/4 of the rim has no break indication - it probably was not fastened properly to the group handle.

    However, today I called Sunbeam (1800025059) speaking with "Debbie". I was told that I must have damaged the spout by use of excessive force, alternatively I must have dropped it and damaged it that way. Further, "the group handle is an accessory and therefore not covered by any warranty". * The only thing I could do was to buy a new group handle(!).
    After some discussion, when I refused to accept "Debbies" statements, I was told to take the parts to a service centre - which would be unlikely to give me any satisfaction.
    And Sunbeam calls that "Customer Service"!

    Even a large *pic or two would be good... *The description I am reading now *including *"
    it probably was not fastened properly to the group handle.
    " suggests to me, that the damage is not where I first thought, as described in your org post..

    Sorry, but with terms and words it can be confusing and a pic tells a 1000 words.

    Mark

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    TG makes a good point, an accessory is something the appliance can operate without. An espresso machine without a group handle is an expensive hot water dispenser.

    If your machine is in warranty, do not take no for an answer.

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Finally found the camera manual: here are two photos.
    [img][/img]
    [img][/img]

    (provided I have done the attaching correctly)

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Quote Originally Posted by 1438383A365B0 link=1233651460/17#17 date=1233833614
    Finally found the camera manual: here are two photos.

    (provided I have done the attaching correctly)
    Nup.
    You need to place the path to each pic between each set of image tags.

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Quote Originally Posted by 2B29252D2D2324394A0 link=1233651460/16#16 date=1233823675
    TG makes a good point, an accessory is something the appliance can operate without. An espresso machine without a group handle is an expensive hot water dispenser.

    If your machine is in warranty, do not take no for an answer.
    While it is close, it is not 100% true.

    My car will not run with out fuel or oil ;D I would like the car company to pay for all that ;D

    My PC is usless with out a KB or Mouse >:(

    Thus there is a fine line between a Consumable and an Accessory... I understand that most of the machine suppliers include Filters and Group Handels as something that sits in the Consumable range....

    Like some medical stuff, it comes with a starts kit by default... But is considered a consumable... ;)

    However, I was advised that there have been a number returned and replaced where the bottom spout has broken during and after warranty... Clearly a Manufacturing issue with the casting etc..

    Also aware that one or two have been the subject of some discussions as the physical state of the Group handle clearly exhibits signs of brute force... Dare I suggest, indents and markings etc as might be seen when using, multi grip or large pliers :o

    WHY ??? PEBCMaF

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    ...and your keyboard and mouse would be covered under statutory warranty when you buy them with your PC!

    A portafilter as a consumable I have a hard time accepting; under normal, domestic use I think it is reasonable to expect them to last for many years and this would be the typical experience of people who buy domestic machines. At any rate, SBs claim that they are an accessory and therefore not covered is absurd on two levels - firstly because as TG points out they are an essential and integral part of the machine, and secondly because there is no legal basis for denying warranty claim on an accessory, unless it is a consumable.

    Users who have damaged the pf by removing spouts with inappropriate tools deserve no sympathy though, as the manual gives detailed instructions on how to do this.

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    While they are an Accessory / Consumable, they are a solid item and under normal use should not break...

    That is WHY SB replace them under warranty and AFTER, unless they have been abused...

    However, I doubt they would come to the party 3 or 5 years down the track....

    Then again, if they do not have them in stock... Or if some one has not upgraded by then... Opps that was naughty of me. ::)

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    I personally think you must have hit Debbie on the wrong day, or just lucked out and not spoken to Poppy directly.

    Within about 2 days of buying my 6910, I thought Id try out the single pour spot, so proceeded to remove the double pour spout. Somehow, when taking it off, something went skewiff and when I tried to put the double pour spout on the next time, it wouldnt screw on properly as though Id stripped the thread.

    I managed to be lucky and get Poppy straight away (I chose the Contact Sunbeam option from the Sunbeam Website), and Poppy immediately sent me out a new double spout without any qualms and it screwed straight on. There was no mention of it being an accessory or any argument whatsoever that it wouldnt be replaced.

    I just used my usual ultra-niceness in the original email (I used to be a Customer Service Operator for Telstra, so I know what its like and the fact that you really appreciate the nice clients because they can be few and far between!) and Poppy and I have had a brilliant relationship ever since. As soon as I have any problems whatsoever, I email her and she has always fixed my problem straight away.

    The one time I did ring, I spoke to Debbie and had a great conversation with her also - I just found a common ground with her (I think we spoke about children) and she was more than helpful.

    Id perservere and give it another go - Id probably email like I did through the Website, explain your circumstances with what happened to the spout truthfully. Ask if it can be fixed with just another spout, rather than a whole PF (a spout costs next to nothing, but a whole PF would be a lot more expensive to them, so give them the option of going cheaper rather than more expensive) and you should be okay.

    If worst comes to worst, I think I have a spare double spout I can send you (from when I nudied up my spare PF) for a $10.00 donation to the Faircrack Fund.

    Cheers
    Di

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Di Ive never spoken to either Debbie or poppy but have always been nice to whoeever I spoke to an never had a problem.

    I have a help desk back ground too so that may help the way I come across.

    Your spout offer is generous but I think if you read again youll see that the handle is broken where the spout screws on.

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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F534E555F5E495C545F3B0 link=1233651460/23#23 date=1233888346
    Your spout offer is generous but I think if you read again youll see that the handle is broken where the spout screws on.

    I was thinking the same, but on a re read... So the reason I asked for Pics... Attempt made but the poster has not been able to do it yet..

    was happily tampering along (15kg pressure, approximately) when the spout suddenly broke off. Now I have a semi-nude(?) group handle, which unfortunately splatters coffee around when I use a low cup..

    Thus if it was the spout... Then in a high cup it would not matter but with two low cups could cause a problem..

    So then I was confused and now I am not :-/ I think ::)

    The story as to the handle, may have been a red herring as in attempting to explain the status of the whole Group handle...


    A picture will tell a 1000 words.. It gets rid of the Assumptions and the terminology etc...


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    Re: Broken spout (Sunbeam 6910 group handle)

    Today I went to a Sunbeam service centre - they looked at the PF - no problem with them accepting the claim. *However, they already had these on order (I am evidently not the only one to come in with a broken PF). *They will notify me when I can get the replacement.
    So, I must agree that Sunbeam has good customer service; except for this "Debbie" who tried to make me believe that by calling something "accessory" Sunbeam could avoid their legal requirement to provide any warranty on it.



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