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Thread: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

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    em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    hi guys,

    well after 2months of practise on my new em6910 and producing decent shots (to my standards), ive hit a hitch:

    Ive noticed that in the process of pulling my shots there seems to be water spurting from side of the grouphead. In terms of cleaning and maintanence i do my best to keep in top notch - before and after every shot i use the rubber disk (provided) to clean the machine which now also spurts water out when doing so.
    In terms of locking the PF well, I turn it all the way till the handle is facing to the right. Ive noticed however contrary to when i first used the machine, that the PF locks in too easily now without any pressure as it did when i first purchased the machine.
    As to pulling the shot, in order to get that right flow ranging in 20-25sec, the guage always has to hit the red (choke) section, otherwise the coffee flows out too quickly.

    All the above were explained to Sunbeam customer service but to my surprise it seemed to me that all the representative wanted to do was worm her way out of admitting that there was a problem with the machine...every point ive listed above she said was wrong; that i shouldnt make my coffee too fine and that its ok if the shot is pulled in 5sec as long it looks good...it was ridiculous.

    I called back (in hope of recieving someone a little more understanding)...she was worse than the first. I explained to her that water is leaking regardless when i overextract or underextract which she replied that it was normal and blamed it on my grinding and tamping technique.

    After useless arguing back and forth, her conclusion was that i could take it to the service centre but if they dont find problem then i would be charged...i honestly dont understand what the hell is the point of having a warranty on a $600 product if thats the service u get.

    Im going to call for the third time and if i recieve the same treatment then ill take it up with their manager (stupid of me not to note the names of the first 2 employees) but before i do so i thought id post my issue here and see if anyone could tell me if there really is a problem to be concerned about or if anyone else has had similar issues.

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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Baz

    Like many things *being on site is worth a thousand words and a hundred phone calls..

    Thus I am tossing up some points... *

    1: Where are you.. *

    2: Sounds like a group seal has split

    3: Over dosing and locking to hard to the right can contribute 2 collar issues and crushed seals

    4: If you have to choke it to deliver the right flow, then I would suspect that there is something not quite right in your machine or / and your method..

    5: Why would you use teh rubber disk B4 and after every shot... *Not required..

    6: What PF ?

    7: What grinder

    8: What beans ?


    Baz... I had a look back and your sweet spot was around 1:00 if so and your going to RED then it could be the BEANS / Grind / Tamp.... This could also cause a problem with the seal..

    I know roads are down every where... But I have Thursday and Friday up my sleeve and heading over to W/Manly at some stage.. Only too happy to drop in, or if your over Wooloowin way.. Happy to demo mine and or play with yours..

    AM


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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Baz, sounds like a barrel of laughs!

    Reading threads here it would appear that it totally depends on who you get on the other end when you ring Sunbeam. I had issues with my Cafe Series grinder just prior to attending the Sunbeam course (grinder needed calibrating). I was able to get a washer of the guys at the course and was more than willing to do it myself. I gave Sunbeam a ring to get the "how to" in order to install the washer and i was told that it has a 12 month warranty so i should take it back to the place of purchase and get a new one! (Much to my surprise). Received the new grinder, touch wood, no problems since!

    I was a little surprised that they were willing to throw the warranty issue back onto the retailer. After all the warranty is between the customer and Sunbeam? However, not sure if its worth your effort to maybe deal with your retailer?

    As for the comments regarding pulling your shot and the gauge reaching the red. I find unless it gets well into the red i get a quick, gushing shot. Our course instructor actually told us to totally disregard the gauge and may well have used the words "its a waste of space" (agreed)!

    Anyway, not sure this really helps your issue but maybe give your retailer a go. If not keep on ringing Sunbeam every hour either a) in the hope that you get an operater with a brain or b) you get the chance to speak with a manager (maybe even one that drinks coffee)!

    Good luck

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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 0A252C2E39062A252A2C2E262E253F4B0 link=1242812958/1#1 date=1242813559
    Baz

    Like many things *being on site is worth a thousand words and a hundred phone calls..

    Thus I am tossing up some points... *

    1: Where are you.. *

    2: Sounds like a group seal has split

    3: Over dosing and locking to hard to the right can contribute 2 collar issues and crushed seals

    4: If you have to choke it to deliver the right flow, then I would suspect that there is something not quite right in your machine or / and your method..

    5: Why would you use teh rubber disk B4 and after every shot... *Not required..

    6: What PF ?

    7: What grinder

    8: What beans ?


    Baz... I had a look back and your sweet spot was around 1:00 if so and your going to RED then it could be the BEANS / Grind / Tamp.... *This could also cause a problem with the seal..

    I know roads are down every where... But I have Thursday and Friday up my sleeve and heading over to W/Manly at some stage.. * Only too happy to drop in, or if your over Wooloowin way.. Happy to demo mine and or play with yours..

    AM
    Hey AM,
    ive spoken before, youre in brisbane right? coz im in sydney (lakemba).

    as to the rest of the questions;
    -the rubber cleaning disk; i thought it wouldnt damage if i done it twice, now i only do it after a shot, is that still not required?

    - well in terms of choking it to get a right flow might method involves a grind level of 9-11 (on em0480) any coarser produces too quick of a flow,
    tamping at around 8-10kg,
    dosing at 5- 5.5mm from surface (this the first ring setting on a pullman tamper) so i get this consistently.

    -beans are fresh from beanbay (yaman)

    -PF is the standard dual spout

    how do i know if the group is split?
    can it occur if you choke the machine too many times, coz i must admit i done this a few times in the learning process.

    by the way the customer service rep kept buggin me that my dosing was wrong and that my grind at 9 was too fine when i explained that i tested every grind level started from 19 and this was the level that produced the best flow.

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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 24273C7E727E73460 link=1242812958/3#3 date=1242816176
    Hey AM,
    ive spoken before, youre in brisbane right? coz im in sydney (lakemba).

    as to the rest of the questions;
    -the rubber cleaning disk; i thought it wouldnt damage if i done it twice, now i only do it after a shot, is that still not required?

    - well in terms of choking it to get a right flow might method involves a grind level of 9-11 (on em0480) any coarser produces too quick of a flow, *
    tamping at around 8-10kg,
    dosing at 5- 5.5mm from surface (this the first ring setting on a pullman tamper) so i get this consistently.

    -beans are fresh from beanbay (yaman)

    -PF is the standard dual spout

    how do i know if the group is split?
    can it occur if you choke the machine too many times, coz i must admit i done this a few times in the learning process.

    by the way the customer service rep kept buggin me that my dosing was wrong and that my grind at 9 was too fine when i explained that i tested every grind level started from 19 and this was the level that produced the best flow.
    Opps... Too many people to keep track..

    1: I flush after a shot... But not using teh disk etc.. * It is more of a dump the puck - wipe, *softly reset and run a manual and wiggle the PF.. *It is just to clean the grinds...

    2: Bean Bay fresh... *Green or brown ? *If brown how old... * How long do you leave in the grinder

    3: *If you try to check teh SB sweet spot and shee leaks... YA seal has split!!!!

    4: *How often have you done a popper back flush ?

    5: *When did you last remove teh shower head to clean it ?

    6: When you do, the Blue group head seal should be removed and checked..

    7: *Is the PF *singe or DOUBLE *floor ???

    8: *While your approach as to adjusting teh grind is good... As teh beans age it will reduce the crema and make for a fast flow..

    Thus I still believe it is an issue of Grind / Beans / Tamp.. *Sorry... But thats my experience to date.. *Both at home, work and others I have assisted...

    YES.. The RED line / Choke and over locking etc can cause teh seal to let go... And if your not cleaning correctly ... Then coffee grinds can get forces into the system and cause problems..

    I have a 3mm space approx, use *4-6 kg at max and get good stuff out at about 12:00 to 1:00 and runs to about 20 -25 sec most times before I pull the shot... *Yes it can start to go golden, but is still thick/ creamy - not runny / watery..

    A fresh roast, that I pulled to early at start of FC ( forgot to look and was reading) will gush at about 10-15 sec... *A week - 10 days later and good for 20-25 sec. *If I leave them in teh grinder Over Night and grind later the next day or leave grinds in my tin... A gusher. *Even though my other actions are the same...

    Coffee is like a living product... It is dynamic and is always changing.. *Thus you have to read it and change to suit it...





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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    water spurting does sound like group seal, but if you are jamming the PF past about 5 oclock on the group head, it could be a combination of seal split and worn collar (maybe).

    The seal is easy enough to check, undo the screw on the shower screen and remove both shower screen and dispersion screen, seal is located above these and just prises out easily with a little gentle persuasion. A quick check with the eye-crometer will soon tell you if there is a split in the seal.

    5 - 5.5mm below the surface sounds almost under-dosed. When you load in the PF to the group head, pull it out immediately and check the puck, is there any impression of the shower screen on the top of the puck (should be quite faint). I think AM (?) has suggested putting a 5c coin on the top of the puck for a good measure, I could be mistaken?

    If the seal is split, these are readily replaced via your local sunbeam agent, just make sure that they also send you some silicon spacers with the seal, as odds are, the new seal and the PF will not gell together and you will still get leaking.

    If the seal is not split, then it could be a worn collar issue. Not necessarily from choking the machine, but potentially from overdosing your coffee and / or putting too much pressure when loading in the PF into the group head.

    For my machine, it is quite a gentle push to get it into place, very little force (1/2 or less than a normal tamp) and I have no issues with leakage (Im on my 1st replacement seal which leaked like you describe until I got some silicon spacers).

    All these are easy checks / fixes. I guess the greater issue is Sunbeams apparant lack of CS skills in this instance which if they had suggested a split (or crushed seal) and told you how it could be checked may have alleviated any angst. Perhaps given the machine is only 2 months old, they werent expecting that sort of issue however

    Sen

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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 02343F30253E23510 link=1242812958/5#5 date=1242818789
    water spurting does sound like group seal, but if you are jamming the PF past about 5 oclock on the group head, it could be a combination of seal split and worn collar (maybe).

    The seal is easy enough to check, undo the screw on the shower screen and remove both shower screen and dispersion screen, seal is located above these and just prises out easily with a little gentle persuasion. A quick check with the eye-crometer will soon tell you if there is a split in the seal.

    5 - 5.5mm below the surface sounds almost under-dosed. When you load in the PF to the group head, pull it out immediately and check the puck, is there any impression of the shower screen on the top of the puck (should be quite faint). I think AM (?) has suggested putting a 5c coin on the top of the puck for a good measure, I could be mistaken?

    If the seal is split, these are readily replaced via your local sunbeam agent, just make sure that they also send you some silicon spacers with the seal, as odds are, the new seal and the PF will not gell together and you will still get leaking.

    If the seal is not split, then it could be a worn collar issue. Not necessarily from choking the machine, but potentially from overdosing your coffee and / or putting too much pressure when loading in the PF into the group head.

    For my machine, it is quite a gentle push to get it into place, very little force (1/2 or less than a normal tamp) and I have no issues with leakage (Im on my 1st replacement seal which leaked like you describe until I got some silicon spacers).

    All these are easy checks / fixes. I guess the greater issue is Sunbeams apparant lack of CS skills in this instance which if they had suggested a split (or crushed seal) and told you how it could be checked may have alleviated any angst. Perhaps given the machine is only 2 months old, they werent expecting that sort of issue however

    Sen
    Well put together... 4 some one across that narrow strip of salty water... So how is Tasy ?


    Sorry... Its late and I took a call and was in teh middle of a BF1942 battle... I hope Baz calls again in the morning, cause he did not call back.. Soz Baz...

    Sen... Shame your on teh South Island... I may be getting over to the Nth Island in a couple of months.. Either way... I will give ya a heads up.

    AM



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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1A353C3E29163A353A3C3E363E352F5B0 link=1242812958/4#4 date=1242818211
    2: Bean Bay fresh...Green or brown ?If brown how old... How long do you leave in the grinder

    i use brown, my batch now is about 2weeks old

    3:If you try to check teh SB sweet spot and shee leaks... YA seal has split!!!!

    this doesnt happen all the time, sometimes it leaks and other times it doesnt


    4:How often have you done a popper back flush ?
    whats this??
    if ur talkin about cleaning with rubber disk, then everytime i use it i apply it at the end


    5:When did you last remove teh shower head to clean it ?
    is this the screw in the grouphead, if so i have not cleaned it since purchase (2months ago)

    6: When you do, the Blue group head seal should be removed and checked..
    not done

    7:Is the PFsinge or DOUBLEfloor ???
    double

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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 0F39323D28332E5C0 link=1242812958/5#5 date=1242818789
    but if you are jamming the PF past about 5 oclock on the group head, it could be a combination of seal split and worn collar (maybe).
    its definately passed this, maybe around 4
    ill follow ur directions and check the seal for any splits

    Quote Originally Posted by 0F39323D28332E5C0 link=1242812958/5#5 date=1242818789
    just make sure that they also send you some silicon spacers with the seal, as odds are, the new seal and the PF will not gell together and you will still get leaking
    what are these and wat do they do? do i just ask the repair technician for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0F39323D28332E5C0 link=1242812958/5#5 date=1242818789
    If the seal is not split, then it could be a worn collar issue.
    how do i check this?

    sorry for the hassle, but you and AM have been more helpful then the company that built the product :-?

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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Baz Im not far from Lakemba if you want me to have a look at it.
    Send me a PM with address details and I can try to find some time soon to drop by.
    Theres a Sunbeam service agent in Kingsgove if you need a new seal. Hopefully hell have some in stock.

    AM please post your "sweet spot" test again for me in this thread so I can use it on Bazs machine.

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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 0935283339382F3A32395D0 link=1242812958/9#9 date=1242825801
    Baz Im not far from Lakemba if you want me to have a look at it.
    Send me a PM with address details and I can try to find some time soon to drop by.
    Theres a Sunbeam service agent in Kingsgove if you need a new seal. Hopefully hell have some in stock.

    AM please post your "sweet spot" test again for me in this thread so I can use it on Bazs machine.
    No problem TG...

    All you need is one of the pressurized PF, or worse case the cleaning rubber on and a non pressurized PF.

    Put it into place and run a few shots... The pressure will climb and should then reach a value (Usually some where between 11 to 3 ).

    Now the trick is that the double floor and the single hole (0.7mm if memory is ok) are designed to simulate the correct and ideal extraction pressure. Thats why you can / should be able to get So SO LOOKING shots, from crap beans...


    Thus if you get 12:00, then previous experience says that with the right raw product and preparation... (ya know, Beans/grind/tamp/water temp/head temp/ etc etc) Then when you run a shot for real, and value on teh gauge is around what you got in teh test or a little more. Then ya know you in teh ball park.. If the extraction is poor... Then you know as well as I do that it could be many things...

    I have wanted to run that SB basket in some of the other commercial machines and see what it reads ... Could be interesting...

    The other thing of course, is that it is also a reasonable test to check out the seal.

    Best of luck TG... Would like to think a split seal and some basic understandings is all it is..

    Keep us in teh loop...

    AM





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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 033F2239333225303833570 link=1242812958/9#9 date=1242825801
    Baz Im not far from Lakemba if you want me to have a look at it.
    Send me a PM with address details and I can try to find some time soon to drop by.
    Theres a Sunbeam service agent in Kingsgove if you need a new seal. Hopefully hell have some in stock.

    AM please post your "sweet spot" test again for me in this thread so I can use it on Bazs machine.
    thanx champ...ill pm you my number and feel free to buz/sms me if your ever driving past.

    Quote Originally Posted by 16393032251A36393630323A323923570 link=1242812958/6#6 date=1242824125
    Sorry... Its late and I took a call and was in teh middle of a BF1942 battle...I hope Baz calls again in the morning, cause he did not call back.. Soz Baz...
    i wasnt the person that called :-? but ill try buz ya tomorw afternoon if i geta chance

    i just unscrewed tha shower screen took off the shower screen and dispersion screen...the only damage i could see on the seal was there were 2 very slight tears (1mm) located on the edge, inside the circle of the seal...theyre located opposite to one another.
    also the dispersion screen had burnt coffee stain on it, which i wiped off with a damp cloth but replaced everything back.

    i done that sweetspot test again with rubber disk, and first time water spurted, then stopped, took of grouphandle re-adjusted rubber disk; this time no water.

    im off for now gusy...ill have to deal with it tomorow coz ive got over 100pg to read for class tomorow :-/
    thanx for all tha help guys

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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    I would guess that it is a combination of those two tears as well as the possibility of a wearing collar that are causing your problems.

    I would be inclined to order a replacement seal (and silicon spacers) from the local sunbeam agent, get these fitted and then see how things go.

    With the new seal in place (with spacer 1 or 2 tops) your group handle should sit at around 6 oclock when pushed into position, much further past that and its onto the 2nd possibility, the collar. Given your machine is only 2 months old, I wouldnt fret about that yet, its under warranty.

    If your seal has only lasted 2 months, a humble / concilitary style phone call to sunbeam may yield you a free seal / spacer. Plead your case nicely and be respectful to the rep on the phone. Even though it is a wear and tear style item, I would think that 2 months is a touch short of most peoples expectations for a group seal in a domestic situation. CS staff are often more willing to go the extra mile for a nice customer than an angry one.

    And AM - A BF42 battle, wow, I thought I was obsessed for still playing BF2 3 1/2 years on.

    Sen

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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 71474C43564D50220 link=1242812958/12#12 date=1242854933
    I would guess that it is a combination of those two tears as well as the possibility of a wearing collar that are causing your problems.

    I would be inclined to order a replacement seal (and silicon spacers) from the local sunbeam agent, get these fitted and then see how things go.

    With the new seal in place (with spacer 1 or 2 tops) your group handle should sit at around 6 oclock when pushed into position, much further past that and its onto the 2nd possibility, the collar. Given your machine is only 2 months old, I wouldnt fret about that yet, its under warranty.

    If your seal has only lasted 2 months, a humble / concilitary style phone call to sunbeam may yield you a free seal / spacer. Plead your case nicely and be respectful to the rep on the phone. Even though it is a wear and tear style item, I would think that 2 months is a touch short of most peoples expectations for a group seal in a domestic situation. CS staff are often more willing to go the extra mile for a nice customer than an angry one.

    And AM - A BF42 battle, wow, I thought I was obsessed for still playing BF2 3 1/2 years on.

    Sen *
    thanks buddy, ill give sb another go, but might get TG to take a look at it first.
    and believe me i spoke nicely on the first and second call to sb last time, but they lack any sort of real communication skills (manly in listening to a customer) ..anything i explained was either ignored or rudely interrupted by an irrelevant question...its like a computer that sticks to set of procedures, and ONLY knows those rules - to me this isnt customer service...
    which is what worries me in even explaining your points to them senator...but im gona make sure i got all my facts right this time before i call, so if i gota deal with another zombie (not to my surprise) then at least i know what im talking about and can take it up with the manager if necessary.

    thanks again for all the support...ill recommend you to SB headquarters...if i ever get there *8-)

    btw if this is a result of me placing the grouphandle in forcefully, then i have only myself to blame bcoz the groundhandle originaly tightened in the 6oclock mark, but due to my negligence in taking advice from youtube clips, i saw a few a guys on their who locked the handle in further upto 4oclock mark, and so i thought my initiall approach was incorrect and effecting the shot...

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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 01373C33263D20520 link=1242812958/12#12 date=1242854933
    And AM - A BF42 battle, wow, I thought I was obsessed for still playing BF2 3 1/2 years on.
    Arrr, if you started out at the release... You would be likely to know my Son...

    Well his AKA anyway... Same a BF1942 and the DC mods... He is / was actually one the of best in Australia and was in the top 10 World wide.. But alases he has an attitude and like always... When ya good, many think your cheating or hacking..

    For me I have been under the same AKA since the days a dial up and bulletin boards.. Not that many to day would even know what that is...

    Thanks for dropping in and adding comment to Baz... I would like to think he has not stuffed the group collar, as he was under dosing.. But hey ya never know... Sounds like teh seal has had it...

    But if TG gets to have a look, I am sure that Baz will be looked after....

    OH... TG have you a Blue Card ??? ;) :D ;D

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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 042B22203708242B24222028202B31450 link=1242812958/14#14 date=1242863119
    TG have you a Blue Card
    Ive got one with several shades of brown.
    Will that do?

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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1C203D262C2D3A2F272C480 link=1242812958/15#15 date=1242865208
    Quote Originally Posted by 042B22203708242B24222028202B31450 link=1242812958/14#14 date=1242863119
    TG have you a Blue Card
    Ive got one with several shades of brown.
    Will that do?
    giggled like a schoolgirl and CMGO ... I hate having the flu...

    It took me a while... But I got it in the end ;D

    I was going to suggest Blue card for First Aid etc as Baz might want to kick a wall or something :-?


    Oh well I guess the multi shaded brown card might carry some weight :D

    Whos name does it have on it ?

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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 46696062754A66696660626A626973070 link=1242812958/16#16 date=1242872343
    Whos name does it have on it ? *
    Mine!

    My First Aid card is white. *:P

    If he wants to kick a wall Id show him how to do it properly so he wouldnt hurt himself.


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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Hi Baz

    I noticed in your replies about 10 up (the ones with the replies in yellow), you said you used the double floored basket...Im thinking that you mean you used the double basket (ie; the big one), rather than double floored basket?

    However, if you are using the double floored basket with only the little hole in the bottom, Id suggest throwing this into the cutlery drawer in the kitchen and using the single floored basket. The double floor one is really only meant for people that use 6 month old supermarket bought pre-ground coffee with their coffee tastebuds in their proverbials ( :P ), not for people that buy fresh roasted beans and grind it themselves.

    Use the DF one for checking the sweet spot only per AMs instructions, then it can get relegated to the bottom drawer in the kitchen.

    Cheers
    Di

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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Hoyks dont worry, he meant double basket.

    I popped in to see baz today and to see what the fuss was about.

    AM - sweet spot is 12.

    I removed the seal for inspection and there were no apparent cracks or splits.
    The collar also didnt look worn (compared to the one at work that needed replacement.

    I filled the double basket and ran a shot.
    Gauge hit the red.
    Red starts about 2:00 - needle hit about 3:00.

    I stopped the shot at signs of blonding.
    Couldnt measure the pour but my estimate was about 50ml.

    Handle locked in about 5:00; which is where the arrow is on the collar.
    Dose was about 2nd ring on a Pullman.
    Must have hit the screen because the empty basket locks in around 4:00.
    Baz doses a little less than I do; about one ring less on the Pullman.

    I told baz that the machine doesnt seem as bad as he described.
    For a start it didnt leak when the shot was poured.

    It may bear watching and a spacer will help if the collars does wear.
    He took a 2 year warranty deal so theres no need to panic just yet.

    --

    AM - your opinion please.
    If Id have tried for an extra 10ml Id have gone 1 notch finer or dosed just a little more, but both these options would pysh the needle further into the red.
    Never a problem on the machine I used to use but it flies in the face of your sweet spot theory.

  21. #21
    A_M
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1C203D262C2D3A2F272C480 link=1242812958/19#19 date=1243092328
    AM - your opinion please.
    If Id have tried for an extra 10ml Id have gone 1 notch finer or dosed just a little more, but both these options would pysh the needle further into the red.
    Never a problem on the machine I used to use but it flies in the face of your sweet spot theory.
    Thanks TG... The sweet spot is not mine... The theory make sense and it is what the SB service guys do when checking the pressure etc... Same a 20-30 ml of water after steaming for 60 sec etc... They have a number of checks they perform to assess the performance... Problem is when they do a test and comes back within limits and a user may have a different comment.. ;)



    I filled the double basket and ran a shot.
    Gauge hit the red.
    Red starts about 2:00 - needle hit about 3:00.
    Must be one of the newer ones... The older ones the red starts about 3 +

    The old one runs at about 2 to 2:30, but my one here will choke and roll over at 2:00 and die at 2:30.


    I stopped the shot at signs of blonding.
    Couldnt measure the pour but my estimate was about 50ml.
    Well we all know the 60 is a ball park :)

    Handle locked in about 5:00; which is where the arrow is on the collar.
    My newer one is not quite to the arrow.. System is about 10 months old now..

    Dose was about 2nd ring on a Pullman.
    Must have hit the screen because the empty basket locks in around 4:00.
    Baz doses a little less than I do; about one ring less on the Pullman.
    Do not have a pullman YET... So can not comment other than the 5cent piece test :)

    I told baz that the machine doesnt seem as bad as he described.
    From what I have read... It sounds like it is not as bad as we understood from his posts and the info we were interpreting;)

    I guess the same questions come back to haunt me... Beans / Grind / Tamp ;) :o

    I know that with some beans that I have roasted... Blonding and crap and a different bean will give great crema / flow / time and pressure using the same grind and tamp..

    There is a post here some where and I have also read it... That is a rule of thumb as to Tamp Vs Grind and how the pour / flow rate will give you teh clue as to which one to change and high or lower..

    Problem is I can not find it... Bugger....

    I should be taken out that back and forced to ride a Bultaco 250 trials bike, with a broken right foot .....

  22. #22
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    I have the same problem~~~LEAKING!!
    After serving me for 1 year and a half, I finally have to take it to the sundeam service centre~~And they said it will take 2-3 wks for quote :(
    No coffee for a month~~~not happy at all

  23. #23
    A_M
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A7C6E60657C67090 link=1242812958/21#21 date=1243240186
    I have the same problem~~~LEAKING!!
    After serving me for 1 year and a half, I finally have to take it to the sundeam service centre~~And they said it will take 2-3 wks for quote :(
    No coffee for a month~~~not happy at all
    What do you mean leaking ?

    1: Head / Collar
    2: A group seal
    3: Internally

    Please explain...

  24. #24
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    leaking after 1 1/2 years, my money would be on a worn seal (unless you answer internally to AMs question above). They used to be in short supply, not sure if that is still the case, but if not (and you can get one and a spacer or 2) its a 2 min "do it yourself" job, "should" cure your problem

  25. #25
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    AM: When im pulling my shot, there is water leaking around the brew head. I changed the seal 3-4 months ago. My point is, it still leaks after i changed the seal. Therefore, I think it is the collar.

    I reckon, I over wound the collar by frequently updosing. I remember your pervious post saying constently updosing can over wound collar.

  26. #26
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    AM: My 6910 is an early version. I can find the sweet spot using the "dual wall basket" test. But when i make coffee, i can never get a correct flow rate (using noraml double basket) when the pressure gauge reaches the sweet spot. The shot is always too fast. When i set the grinder finer (putting the same amount of coffee), the pressure gauge goes to 3:00 oclock position. Then i can get a decent shot. My question is, when i get my machine back, i dont want to over wound the collar again. What can i do to get a good shot without putting too much pressure to the machine? I want to slower my shot @ the sweet spot.
    But if i underdoes it tends to make a mess inside the basket~~ :( *

    My routine shot is simiular to the link below ( I always have hanneling issue and mouse tailing issue):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adYqeZHAW8k&feature=related

  27. #27
    A_M
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E485A545148533D0 link=1242812958/24#24 date=1243254604
    AM: When im pulling my shot, there is water leaking around the brew head. I changed the seal 3-4 months ago. My point is, it still leaks after i changed the seal. Therefore, I think it is the collar.

    I reckon, I over wound the collar by frequently updosing. I remember your pervious post saying constently updosing can over wound collar.
    The issue is not so much up dosing but HOW much... Thus the 5 cent piece is a good guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E485A545148533D0 link=1242812958/25#25 date=1243255815
    AM: My 6910 is an early version. I can find the sweet spot using the "dual wall basket" test. But when i make coffee, i can never get a correct flow rate (using noraml double basket) when the pressure gauge reaches the sweet spot. The shot is always too fast. When i set the grinder finer (putting the same amount of coffee), the pressure gauge goes to 3:00 oclock position. Then i can get a decent shot. My question is, when i get my machine back, i dont want to over wound the collar again. What can i do to get a good shot without putting too much pressure to the machine? I want to slower my shot @ the sweet spot.
    But if i underdoes it tends to make a mess inside the basket~~ :( *

    My routine shot is simiular to the link below ( I always have hanneling issue and mouse tailing issue):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adYqeZHAW8k&feature=related

    1: When you go finer... do not tamp as hard..

    2: I like to be a bit above the SB sweet spot... And I just balance the issue of Grind Vs Tamp to get it where I want..

    NOTE: the quality and type of beans make a big difference...

    3: Yes, if you do not have a full PF sloppy basket is the outcome..

    I did not like that pour... May be wrong but STALE beans is what it says to me...

    Also who knows what basket / volume was run..

    So... All I can suggest at the moment is try some different beans... And balance teh grind and tamp...

    This link has some great stuff... You may well need to print and read.. Then visit some of the sections when looking at you system... http://home.surewest.net/frcn/Coffee/HowToEspresso.html







  28. #28
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Here is a tip of mine for the leaking, if its of any use whatsoever.

    As you know with my (former) baby, every in between fortnight, I unscrewed the shower screens, removed the blue seal and gave it all a good scrubbing (or wiping, with the seal!) One time, I put it all back together afterwards and starting finding I was getting some leaking and thought, oh-oh already???

    Persisted with it but did my normal clean four weeks later and put it all back together again and voila, no leaking again whatsoever. So it turned out that I must have seated either the seal or the shower screens slightly askew.

    So I guess one of my suggestions for the leaking is take your shower screen assembly apart (Id recommend doing this anyway around once a month for a clean and seal check) and put it all back together again. You may find that its just seated a little bit out, particularly if you replaced the seal yourself.

    Also, if you are regularly taking it apart for a clean and checking the seal, you can order another one at the first sign of any trouble whatsoever and have the seal pre-ordered and ready once it goes.

    Cheers
    Di

  29. #29
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    I spare fellow snobs of the sager I went through with my EM6910, but Ive just spent all night tearing the bugger apart, and after carefully looking and looking and looking, I discovered the problem.

    Original Issue:
    When stopping the shot the pressure is not released and no popping sound is heard
    Secondary Issue:
    Not enough pressure to run a proper cleaning cycle using the cleaning tablets. *All due to the stupid silicone basket seal not sealing.

    Sunbeam sent out a silicone O-Ring to go between the group seal and the top of the unit. *Inserted that and ran a cleaning cycle. BINGO!! *Now I had insant pressure loss when finishing the shot, but still no pop.
    Went to repeat the cycle and I could see water coming from under the unit. *Thats right, water was coming out of the guts of the unit. *I ceased using the unit and reported it to Sunbeam. *They wanted me to take it to the repair guy at Ashfeild. Like Im going to take it there and have him tell me its rooted.

    So, like I was saying I took a screwdriver to it and investigated.

    Turns out that the waste hose had popped off the bottom spout. *Was pretty hard to get to it, but what I ended up doing was removing the plastic waste spout and hang the hose out there. *Will get a longer hose as its a little short.

    So, in short you have a hose that is about 4mm ( Inside diameter ) and trying to remove water and traces of coffee through a brass nozzle that is about 0.5mm.

    Where is the logic in that design? *What I find disturbing is that Sunbeam always seem to have something to send out to give you a fix. *"Oh here is a silicon O Ring cause we didnt take into account that the group head would somehow change shape and youd need this to compensate for the seal not working correctly.


    So, tomorrow I will try and use the unit and see what happens.

    Update: *TaDa!! All sorted and seems to work better than new. *Not taking anywhere near as long to reach full presure.

    One prob though, is sometimes one of the solenoids makes loud buzzing noises, but not always. *Does that mean its on its way out?

  30. #30
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    i got back my machine from the service agent. Cost me $123 to replace the collar. A new start for me~~ :D

    Now it needs a lot of force to lock the PF at 6 oclock position. It wasnt like that when i first purchase the machine. Is that normal?

    O! one more thing. Everyone in Melbourne, if you have problem with the em6910, call the sunbeam hotline first before consider taking your machine to the service agent. It is because the service agent doesnt actually service 6910. Theyll send the machine to North Melbourne for all the repairing. I paid $70 labour for someone who didnt do the work for me >:(

  31. #31
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Didnt I already say that?

    Quote Originally Posted by 467A677C767760757D76120 link=1229919561/54#54 date=1243246170
    Sunbeam have many repair agents but only a handful are trained and authorised to service the 6910s. *
    Quote Originally Posted by 525354544F454748260 link=1229919561/56#56 date=1243419643
    Got an update on my saga.I submitted an essay (3 page word doc copy/pasted into the comments field on their web form).They called me today and explained that theyd talked with the Agent and told them not to even look at the twin thermoblock machines as they are not trained to service them.Also they advised that I can take my machine to the Ashfield agent and get it fixed up on Warranty.Not a bad result, Im glad they talked to those cowboys in Pennant Hills.... *
    Quote Originally Posted by 67484143546B47484741434B434852260 link=1229919561/57#57 date=1243686944
    I am sure that TG will take some warm fuzzys from one agin being 100% correct as to Approved Service agents..

  32. #32
    A_M
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F697B757069721C0 link=1242812958/29#29 date=1243927776
    Now it needs a lot of force to lock the PF at 6 oclock position. It wasnt like that when i first purchase the machine. Is that normal?
    You only need to lock it as far as required... Firm and then run ya shot... If it starts to leak etc or move back... Then assuming dose is correct... Add a bit more to lock it in... If it is at 7:00 as mine was.... Why force it to 6:00 as that is stressing it...

    Like many things the marking are an indicator... Not a rule never to be broken.

    AM - Just in from work... Hilton Melbourne..

  33. #33
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    FxxK that agent, he doesnt advise me to the "proper" service agent. And i didnt knoW that before~~my bad . I learn my lession

  34. #34
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    AM: thx for the advice~~currently out of beans~~have to roast up some tomorrow ;)

  35. #35
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6C6A7876736A711F0 link=1242812958/29#29 date=1243927776
    i got back my machine from the service agent. Cost me $123 to replace the collar. A new start for me~~ :D
    Seems a pretty good price for collar replacement... IIRC others have been charged much more for this job. As always, I guess its up to the individual agent to set their own price >:(

    FWIW Ive had a similarly negative experience with one of Sunbeams approved repair agents - same problem as BeanMonkey described above (water leaking internally) - they phoned to say the machine was "fixed and ready to be picked up". When I got it home though, the problem was still there. Rang sunbeam, who looked up the report the agent gave them - which was that they couldnt replicate the fault and had done nothing.

  36. #36
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    Re: em6910 problem...sunbeam customer service...pathetic!!!

    My point is i dont mind paying the labour. But I want to pay it for the guy that actually do the work for me. Having said that, the hotline customer service is very good



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