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Thread: 6910 group head problem

  1. #1
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    6910 group head problem

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I have had my 6910 for nearly two years. Over the last few months (possibly after changing a head seal) I have had problems fitting the group handle to the head. Usually it will go on with a a minor "jiggle," but recently it has been very difficult. It seems as though the basket is not fitting over the shower screen, so that it does not go deep enough to allow the bayonet to rotate.

    I have loosened the shower screen screw a little (thinking it may be an alignment problem) and that seemed to improve the situation for one or two uses, but then it becomes very difficult to engage the bayonet lugs again.

    Has anyone else had a similar problem and if so did you find a solution?

    Thanks for any help/advice

    Russell

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F585E5E4841414F2D0 link=1255934657/0#0 date=1255934657
    I have had my 6910 for nearly two years. Over the last few months (possibly after changing a head seal) I have had problems fitting the group handle to the head. Usually it will go on with a *a minor "jiggle," but recently it has been very difficult. *It seems as though the basket is not fitting over the shower screen, so that it does not go deep enough to allow the bayonet *to rotate.

    I have loosened the shower screen screw a little (thinking it may be an alignment problem) and that seemed to improve the situation for one or two uses, but then it becomes very difficult to engage the bayonet lugs again.

    Has anyone else had a similar problem and if so did you find a solution?

    Thanks for any help/advice

    Russell
    My gut feel is that the collar has suffered some damage... *NOTE: *This is an assumption as I can not see and or feel the collar.

    1: When did you last remove the seal and the shower screens and do a full flush and clean ?

    2: *When you did, *how much crap and grinds were in teh collar when you used a cloth or a group head brush to clean it all up ?

    3: With a torch have a look and see how much of a lip has been formed where the lugs are. *You will be able to feel it as well if it is excessive.

    Get back to me ASAP.

    AM

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Thanks AM,

    I managed to tear a seal a few days ago, IIIRC when I was attempting to sort this out. So cleaned everything out then. I dont think there was any more than a usual amount of rubbish. I put in a previously used seal + spacer, and that part seems to be behaving reasonably well (no leaks, handle goes to about 5 oclock position).

    Ill have a look at the collar in the morning. I did try to look, but couldnt see anything obvious earlier - only moderate wear on the handle lugs.

    Russell

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 25222424323B3B35570 link=1255934657/2#2 date=1255945628
    Thanks AM,

    I managed to tear a seal a few days ago, IIIRC when I was attempting to sort this out. So cleaned everything out then. I dont think there was any more than a usual amount of rubbish. I put in a previously used seal + spacer, and that part seems to be *behaving reasonably well (no leaks, handle goes to about 5 oclock position).

    Ill have a look at the collar in the morning. I did try to look, but couldnt see anything obvious earlier - only moderate wear on the handle lugs.

    Russell
    5:00 is showing some age and usage... And if that is with a spacer ... Then YEP ya collar is suffering and middle age spread has hit..

    A new seal should be about 6.... *(use some "rice Bran oil" to lube *prior to re fitting).

    If you have a food grade grease that is temp stable (lanoseal is OK)... Then a little on the lugs and up where they mate in the collar can assist in reducing ware. *If ya do it now... It could buy you a little time, but be careful that the group does not unwind (coffee makes a mess).

    I dont think I have a bad one here to take a pic... *But I have posted a number previously. *Will do a search and post the link for you to see.... A pic paints a 1000 words... * I mean my Avatar says it all *;D


    Ok a quick search..

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1250206406/5#5

    Imagecave has fallen over and earlier posts are not showing pics..

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1227520429/5#5

    Lots of reading..

    Check ya PM for a link to some extra pics...





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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Thanks again AM, you were right the imagecave pictures are not available, but I looked at the other pictures OK.

    I tried looking with torch and mirror, but cant see onto the top of the collar. Im sure there is significant wear, but the difficulty I am having is actually inserting the group head into the collar. That is its the vertical movement that is blocked, not the rotation (once I manage to get it up and in).

    It has been exacerbated by my wife deciding to give up coffee for the present, so I have been trying the single basket - yes, Im familiar with all the arguments against singles. Using the double basket is a bit easier, but it still needs a jiggle to get up for the dogs to engage.

    Maybe a new collar would fix it. but Im reluctant to go that way until I have to.

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    I had a similar problem on a 6910 about 10 months ago before I had the collar replaced under warranty.

    The metal of the previous collar was quite soft and had been damaged by someone trying to force the handle in.

    The damage formed a lip of metal that made it difficult to load the handle.

    The lip was no more than about 1mm thick but enopugh to casue bother.

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Now you have me worried.

    Mine has been exhibiting this same symptom for the past few weeks. it seems to imprve when the machine / group is up to temperature, but from cold can be a bit painful to get in. I just figured it was because I was trying to put it in before I have really woken up (feet hit the floor, straight to the kitchen to switch on coffee machine, then get organised for the day).

    Might have to take it all apart on the weekend and give a good cleaning up in the head with a brush and make sure there is nothing baked on there that causes the sympton.

    Locking in is around 5 - 6 oclock with new seal / spacer, so it doesnt seem to be going too far.

    Sen

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Here are a few pics.. Image cave has been hit by a bug/virus and not yet up an running..

    http://picasaweb.google.com/comp.dad/DropBox?authkey=Gv1sRgCJX5hurM6Ijm9AE&feat=directl ink

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Thanks Thundergod,

    I think you are on the money there. I think AM is right, there is basic wear, but this would not cause this particular problem.

    I had another look, and have taken a couple of pictures which probably show what you are reporting. I recall now having the "left" lug on the group head not engaging a couple of times, and this may have done the injury.

    In the first picture you will see there appears to be a ridge on the left margin of the collar, just above the torn seal. On the second picture there is a wear mark on the opposite side of the handle.

    At least I now know how to insert the handle in a way which minimises the risk of further damage. I presume it is not possible to peen the ridge off?

    Looks like a new collar coming up.




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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 73747272646D6D63010 link=1255934657/8#8 date=1256030730
    Thanks Thundergod,

    I think you are on the money there. I think AM is right, there is basic wear, but this would not cause this particular problem.

    I had another look, and have taken a couple of pictures which probably show what you are reporting. *I recall now having the "left" lug on the group head not engaging a couple of times, and this may have done the injury.

    In the first picture you will see there appears to be a ridge on the left margin of the collar, just above the torn seal. On the second picture there is a wear mark on the opposite side of the handle.

    At least I now know how to insert the handle in a way which minimises the risk of further damage. *I presume it is not possible to peen the ridge off?

    Looks like a new collar coming up. *
    It looks like significant ware to me... New collar needed... Look for the posts my matrix.. I think in one of the links I posted for you. The collar is less than $60. But SB are clamping down on the general public obtaining.. part num. EM6910106

    PS. The nakid looks a little heavy ;)

    If you not to fussy on looks, I would suggest you get a small grinder and take of the sharl edge on the step on the lug on the Nakid... Trick is to get both sides even and a pit of a taper going... Will reduce the ware significantly...

  11. #11
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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 5C5B5D5D4B42424C2E0 link=1255934657/8#8 date=1256030730
    Thanks Thundergod,

    I think you are on the money there.
    8-)

    If the metal on yours is as soft as what was on the machine I mentioned, its quite easy to rub it smooth with emery paper.

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Ive been distracted by other activities the last couple of days, but I should report that I realised that being a right-hander, I was regularly putting the right lug on the head in first, and the ridge on the left is causing the block. By putting the left lug in first, it goes in much easier, though probably not as easy as originally. At least we are getting reasonable coffee.

    ONE WORD OF WARNING:

    Dont try to mount the group head with the shower screen securing screw loose. Thinking my problem was misalignment of the shower screen/seal, I tried to line it up with the screw loose. Ive managed to tear three seals. Fortunately they were old ones, which I had recycled with the spacer, but lesson now learned.

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Reading this topic I thought I would tell you all. I just had my group collar replaced. I put a new seal in the shower screen *a few months ago and it started leaking again. So I had the collar replaced at a cost of $219.91 of which $57 was the spare part.

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 272B383E33282F2B244A0 link=1255934657/12#12 date=1256880794
    I had the collar replaced at a cost of $219.91 of which $57 was the spare part.
    OUCH! :(


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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Yeah ouch is right Dennis, but if I was more careful it may have lasted longer.
    I probably could have fixed it myself but I thought i would leave it the experts.
    To be honest now that i have it back I dont ever remeber the group locking in before 90deg.

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    hi
    the group handle should not lock in before 90 degrees, if it does your new collar is going to be over stretched

    have you fitted a spacer prior to it being fixed
    if so check to see if it has been removed

    the earlier type handles are hard on the collars if they dont go in far enough without load on them

    graham

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    My group head was leaking. Sunbeam em6910. I figured it was the seal, so I replaced it. But still leaks, tho not as bad. I would regularly backflush this machine (before each shot) with a blind filter. Someone suggested the em6910 was not designed to be backflushed. Could this have caused the leaking Im experiencing?
    Or do I, too, have a collar problem?
    If its a collar problem, can I fit a new part myself? It its gonna cost what it cost Martybean -- half the price of my machine second-hand -- then I might be better off looking at a new one! :(
    Any suggestions as to what my problem is -- with my machine that is! ::)

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 544149511014161E260 link=1255934657/16#16 date=1257044065
    My group head was leaking. Sunbeam em6910. I figured it was the seal, so I replaced it. But still leaks, tho not as bad. I would regularly backflush this machine (before each shot) with a blind filter. Someone suggested the em6910 was not designed to be backflushed. Could this have caused the leaking Im experiencing?
    Or do I, too, have a collar problem?
    If its a collar problem, can I fit a new part myself? It its gonna cost what it cost Martybean -- half the price of my machine second-hand -- then I might be better off looking at a new one! *:(
    Any suggestions as to what my problem is -- with my machine that is! *::)
    As stated previously NEVER use a BLIND filter on an EM6919... It has a special rubber insert that you should use..

    Over dosing and not cleaning by removing the shower screen and getting in with a brush to clean out the collar will also hasten ware... Same for all machines.

    Where does your handel lock into 7, 6, 5 or 4 if 6 is straight out...

    As to replacing teh collar..

    All been posted before.. User the CS search function..

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1248646363

    Matrix ? only posted his link two days ago... And as he stated... Unless you know what ya doing... Get it done by a service person..

    If it is teh collar.. About $60 for parts and $180 plus for lobour :-)

    Now if ya going to upgrade and forget the EM6910... I am happy to take it off ya hands... I usualy clean up and then keep some of the bits to help others out.

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 242B3A420 link=1255934657/15#15 date=1256961597
    hi
    the group handle should not lock in before 90 degrees, if it does your new collar is going to be over stretched

    have you fitted a spacer prior to it being fixed
    if so check to see if it has been removed

    the earlier type handles are hard on the collars if they dont go in far enough without load on them

    graham
    Hi Fix, I never added a spacer. But it is definetly locking in better than it ever did. It never locked in from new around 90deg always well past.
    It also is requiring less coffee in the filter. When I got it from new the dose and tamp had to be within 3mm of the lip of the filter, now I can have less coffee and tamping about 5mm from the lip of the filter basket and pucks are coming out good.



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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    hi Marty
    i would suggest removing the shower screw, shower and seal, ensure all is clean and has been put back in the correct way
    reassemble and check

    when the handle is inserted it should go as far as the arrow on the front face, approx 5 deg past 90deg

    sunbeam have at last brought out a new style handle, where the lugs are tapered, more like conventional machines, this should cause less wear on the collar.

    in regard to charging for replacement collars we charge $150 including collar

    if the machine requires other work then additional charges apply

    parts also available

    graham

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 5C53423A0 link=1255934657/19#19 date=1257118786
    hi Marty
    i would suggest removing the shower screw, shower and seal, ensure all is clean and has been put back in the correct way
    reassemble and check

    when the handle is inserted it should go as far as the arrow on the front face, approx 5 deg past 90deg

    sunbeam have at last brought out a new style handle, where the lugs are tapered, more like conventional machines, this should cause less wear on the collar.

    in regard to charging for replacement collars we charge $150 including collar

    if the machine requires other work then additional charges apply

    parts also available

    graham
    Fix... That is a great price..... You just need to be in a number of places at once :-)

    Best I know of in Brisbane is $186... Including parts.. and the same disclamer as to additional parts/work.

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    I have done that fix seems to be going all way to the arrow. Do you think its worthwhile me filing the lugs on the group so they are a bit smoother on the edges.

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 5956473F0 link=1255934657/19#19 date=1257118786

    sunbeam have at last brought out a new style handle, where the lugs are tapered, more like conventional machines, this should cause less wear on the collar.

    graham

    Interesting Graham,

    Is this going to be available to the general public or only on new machines?

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Ya dont think they will do a recall do ya ???

    New machines and if ya buy a new group handel, is my guess...

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 4A656C6E79466A656A6C6E666E657F0B0 link=1255934657/23#23 date=1257332803
    New machines and if ya buy a new group handel, is my guess...
    Just got my new EM6910 today - and yep... definately tapered lugs.

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    I dont suppose we could get a photo of the tapered lugs?

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    hi
    will photo during the week

    sunbeam no longer have the older type handle, only new ones available as a replacement

    graham

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Chink, chink, chink*

    *the sound of hundreds of CS 6910 owners accidentally dropping their groups under a brick, repeatedly..."ah, honey, Ive broken my group handle and need to buy a new one..."

    ;D

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F584E5C44370 link=1255934657/27#27 date=1257762442
    Chink, chink, chink*

    *the sound of hundreds of CS 6910 owners accidentally dropping their groups under a brick, repeatedly..."ah, honey, Ive broken my group handle and need to buy a new one..."

    ;D

    Dremmal and grind the step off and then about $20 - $30 for a full re chrome...

    Much cheaper :-)

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Just to round out my part in this saga, I have now replaced the collar and can see what had transpired.

    It appears that I must have put the head in "cockeyed" and this started to distort the track on the left side, so that subsequently the lip developed and encouraged the lug to track along here, wearing the collar and making the "lip" *which appeared to block insertion of the head. Lip is arrowed in attached picture.

    Only moderate difficulty with the collar replacement. One screw had to have its head drilled off, fortunately our local "nuts and bolts" chap had an Allen headed replacement.

    Now with a new seal the handle stops before 6 oclock.

    Ive also done AMs modification to the lugs to reduce future wear.

    Russell




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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 5B5C5A5A4C45454B290 link=1255934657/29#29 date=1258016419
    Just to round out my part in this saga, I have now replaced the collar and can see what had transpired.

    It appears that I must have put the head in "cockeyed" and this started to distort the track on the left side, so that subsequently the lip developed and encouraged the lug to track along here, wearing the collar and making the "lip" *which appeared to block insertion of the head. Lip is arrowed in attached picture.

    Only moderate difficulty with the collar replacement. One screw had to have its head drilled off, fortunately our local "nuts and bolts" chap had an Allen headed replacement.

    Now with a new seal the handle stops before 6 oclock.

    Ive also done AMs modification to the lugs to reduce future wear.

    Russell
    Here is to a long future for you.

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 323D2C540 link=1255934657/19#19 date=1257118786
    sunbeam have at last brought out a new style handle, where the lugs are tapered, more like conventional machines, this should cause less wear on the collar.
    So theyve gone from their very own special design to something similar to a true commercial PF... ::) wouldnt it have been easier to design the machine with a true commercial PF in the first place?

    Am I being really cynical by thinking that the reason for the proprietary part is purely to monopolise the replacement/upgrade market and set their own (exorbitant) price? :-?

    On the upside, there may be a business opportunity for an enterprising CS sponsor to offer a pf upgrage package - send in your old PF to be destepped and rechromed ;D

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    hi russellb
    It appears that I must have put the head in "cockeyed" and this started to distort the track on the left side, so that subsequently the lip developed and encouraged the lug to track along here, wearing the collar and making the "lip" which appeared to block insertion of the head. Lip is arrowed in attached picture.

    Not just the way you use it
    this wear is common on the 6900/6910,
    more to do with design and quality
    some of them have cracked at the point you show

    the new replacement collars have been altered, and stiffened, so hopefully this will be a reduced problem

    graham

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    OK, thanks for that comment, Graham. I do recall some time ago having the left lug not go in properly with consequent leakage, and thought that may have started the process. Anyway I am enjoying being back to espresso after a couple of weeks of Aeropress while my supplier waited for new seals from Sunbeam.

    At least I now know some of the tricks for getting under the bonnet.

    Russell

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Hi all

    New to the forum. Have just encountered the same issue with my 6910.

    This thread was a great help.....thanks all.

    Picked up a collar for $60 at Godden electrics in Wembley (Perth). Salesman tried to talk me out of attempting it myself...said it was a big job....wanted another $$88 to do it. Thought what the heck and gave it a go (he wasnt wrong there - quite fiddly) - knowing that I had been armed with the help from CS. *

    Any way three hours later - sitting down for a long overdue brew.

    Thanks for the great advice again.

    Aside from that issue have been really happy with the 6910. Have had it just on 2 years now and teamed up with a Sunbeam grinder it does a good job.

    Only had one other issue and that was the pressure guage replace under warranty at about 11 mths.

    regards

    Brad

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 202E232129262D25420 link=1255934657/34#34 date=1262948839
    Hi all

    New to the forum. Have just encountered the same issue with my 6910.

    This thread was a great help.....thanks all.

    Picked up a collar for $60 at Godden electrics in Wembley (Perth). Salesman tried to talk me out of attempting it myself...said it was a big job....wanted another $$88 to do it. Thought what the heck and gave it a go (he wasnt wrong there - quite fiddly) - knowing that I had been armed with the help from CS. *

    Any way three hours later - sitting down for a long overdue brew.

    Thanks for the great advice again.

    Aside from that issue have been really happy with the 6910. Have had it just on 2 years now and teamed up with a Sunbeam grinder it does a good job.

    Only had one other issue and that was the pressure guage replace under warranty at about 11 mths.

    regards

    Brad
    Thanks Brad..

    Many a new user just has a problem and spams a few forums...

    You have done ya research and glad to hear that our posts / discussions and Pics have made it easer for you...

    So thank you and welcome to CS..

    AM

    PS... B careful... If ya in WA, there could be a few other EM6910 users looking to you for assistance ;)

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Cheers AM,

    Gotta say its something I hope I dont have to tackle again in a hurry...... *:o

    I think the techies probably earn their dough on this one. Mind you half the time was working out which way I woz gonna tackle it and if you had the right tools and knew what you were doing you could probably knock it off in 1 1/2 hrs.

    regards

    Brad ;)





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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    NEW sunbeam handle, as you cansee there is still a small step,
    [img][img]

    [img][/img]

    [img][/img]

    [img][/img]








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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 4C43522A0 link=1255934657/37#37 date=1263018648
    NEW sunbeam handle, as you cansee there is still a small step,
    Thanks fix.....

    Looks almost like the grind and re chrome I did on mine before I passed it on the MadP...

    I did have a look at HN the other day and that one looked a little smother...

    I wonder..

    New mould OR Re manufacture of old stock and thus some potential for slight differences ?

    Either way; it will improve the situation BUT not fully resolve it.

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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A454C4E59664A454A4C4E464E455F2B0 link=1255934657/35#35 date=1262950305

    Thanks Brad..

    Many a new user just has a problem and spams a few forums... *

    You have done ya research and glad to hear that our posts / discussions and Pics have made it easer for you...

    So thank you and welcome to CS..

    AM

    I get the feeling you have an issue with ppl not doing searches before posting questions :P ;D

    It seems we get the same questions from many different users. Would it be worthwhile posting a 6910 FAQ? You are the resident guru AM. I dont want to put you in the hotspot but is it something youd be prepared to take on? Id send you a half carton of handcrafted ale if thatd entice you ;)

  41. #41
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 4C7C6B79636F600E0 link=1255934657/39#39 date=1263078721
    Would it be worthwhile posting a 6910 FAQ?
    And how many newbs do you think will search and find it?

  42. #42
    A_M
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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 0438253E343522373F34500 link=1255934657/40#40 date=1263080208
    Quote Originally Posted by 4C7C6B79636F600E0 link=1255934657/39#39 date=1263078721
    Would it be worthwhile posting a 6910 FAQ? *
    And how many newbs do you think will search and find it?
    giggled like a schoolgirl in the car....

    None read the stickies or search

  43. #43
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 002F2624330C202F2026242C242F35410 link=1255934657/41#41 date=1263081540
    None read the stickies or search *
    A generalisation; I read and searched; which is why I havent had many problems; because the collective knowledge here, when used, makes coffee stuff so much easier.

    AM keep your eyes on the road!!

  44. #44
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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A454C4E59664A454A4C4E464E455F2B0 link=1255934657/41#41 date=1263081540
    Quote Originally Posted by 0438253E343522373F34500 link=1255934657/40#40 date=1263080208
    Quote Originally Posted by 4C7C6B79636F600E0 link=1255934657/39#39 date=1263078721
    Would it be worthwhile posting a 6910 FAQ? *
    And how many newbs do you think will search and find it?
    giggled like a schoolgirl in the car....

    None read the stickies or search
    You could be right, and on the small chance that they did it would seriously cut into your [s]cannon blasts[/s] post count ;D

  45. #45
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    Re: 6910 group head problem

    Just in case someone does follow down this thread, I thought I should put up what (I hope) will be a final comment - from me, anyway.

    After looking at a few threads, and considering my own behaviour, I realised that as a right hander I was regularly tamping slightly higher on the left of the basket, or deeper on the right. I now believe this led to the excessive wear on the left of the collar. Im now being much more careful to get the grounds level.

    Russell



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