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Thread: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    OK, an explanation as this is a bit of an unusual poll - Im interested in the correlation between the sweet spot test and what people do day-to-day to get a good extraction - and not comparing one EM6910 to another (apples to oranges - or Monday apples to Friday apples ;))

    There are two sets of options and you need to select one from each -
    SS is the sweet spot for your EM6910as determined by running a shot through an empty dual-wall basket;
    GS is where the needle ends up when you run a good shot.


    For consistency - if it falls on the line, please round down in both cases.

    Ive based the options on the zones for the current 6910s per the photo below (apols for quality - clearest one I could find)... if yours is an older model with a different gauge, please go with the clock-face measurements rather than the colour zones. As above - it doesnt really matter as the gauge reading isnt consistent from machine to machine anyway.



    Go nuts kids :)

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    gs ON my 6900 - 12.45->14.00 but 1500 is not unheard (FOR GS) of *:D
    i dont have a dual wall

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A565F52525B370 link=1259038566/1#1 date=1259042552
    gs *ON my 6900 - 12.45->14.00 but 1500 is not unheard (FOR GS) of *:D
    i dont have a dual wall *
    So you dont have an old duel floor group handle basket to test for ya SS ?

    Let me know... Have a few floating around...


    The other way is to use teh rubber blind... *As it also has a hole, but for many reasons may not be so repeatable..

    PS... Got to get use to P F being changed by CS to group handle

    PPS.. DISCLAMER -

    The GS is also dependant on BEANS / TAMP and DOSE.. But it may assist people in coming to terms with the different performance of these units.

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Quote Originally Posted by 46696062754A66696660626A626973070 link=1259038566/2#2 date=1259042794

    So you dont have an old duel floor group handle basket to test for ya SS ?


    The GS is also dependant on BEANS / TAMP and DOSE.. *But it may assist people in coming to terms with the different performance of these units.
    didnt come with mine (2nd hand) got the blind

    and yes IMO its really all BGTD (beans grind tamp dose)

    thanks for the offer for one but i would never bother with it.....

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Ah the age ole question, at the moment i have some wild sourced eitheopean (if thats how u spell it), the beans seem drier with less oil content (if thats possible ) and my god spot is earlier say about 12:30 than say to some freshly roasted blends from my local roastery which depending on humidity ect us closer to 2, but wow i love those eitheopean beans mmmm good

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Quote Originally Posted by 2A3F2F323C3935383C395D0 link=1259038566/4#4 date=1259099366
    Ah the age ole question, at the moment i have some wild sourced eitheopean (if thats how u spell it), the beans seem drier with less oil content (if thats possible ) and my god spot is earlier say about 12:30 than say to some freshly roasted blends from my local roastery which depending on humidity ect us closer to 2, but wow i love those eitheopean beans mmmm good
    Yep... Its whats in the cup.. An if you understand you machine you know that it is you / your method that needs to be modified to get the best..


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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Not too sure the "sweet spot" is determined by the dual floor basket.
    In mine if I run the dual floor basket sweet spot I would be getting a 10 second gusher at about 10 oclock.
    My 25-30 second sweet spot is about 12.00 - 12.30

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Quote Originally Posted by 425950464548310 link=1259038566/6#6 date=1259103771
    Not too sure the "sweet spot" is determined by the dual floor basket.
    In mine if I run the dual floor basket sweet spot I would be getting a 10 second gusher at about 10 oclock.
    My 25-30 second sweet spot is about 12.00 - 12.30
    See Defs -

    SS is the sweet spot for your EM6910as determined by running a shot through an empty dual-wall basket;


    GS is where the needle ends up when you run a good shot.

    THE so called SS is a factory test and calibration / QC check.

    Point 0.4 Filter Test:

    • Make sure pressure pointer is at 12o’clock (tolerance +/- 2hrs).
    • Check the quantity of water coming out from the nozzle during 0.4 test.


    Thus you allow for the +/- 2 hrs and that should be the SS reading on YOUR gauge and the 0.4 provides the calibrated back pressure.. *Now with a true commercial machine, you would use GW gauge and tweek ya boiler temp and take not of what it says on the main instrument gauge as well.

    In either case you then need to look at your Beans/Dosing / Tamp to get the ideal shot in the cup.... But if it is significantly off... And the machine has been checked... Then it is YOUR METHOD, regardless of machine.

    For many reasons, I and others have found that in general about 1hr plus is the actual true GS indicator value that should be aimed for... But again it is a guide as BEANS/DOSING and TAMP all play a significant part...


    And yes... *You can check the water quantity as well. *Timed from teh moment you hit the switch.... Have only found this to be a problem with FILTHY machines and or blocked Anti Calc filters... Opps another variable in the flow that can cause problems...

    As stated before.. Do teh test with the double walled basket, the rubber blind and check to see how stab;le over time ;D

    PS. When I the double walled basket in my B.F.C. / DIADEMA 1 group espresso machine my gauge balances at about 0.9bar plus... Exactly as I would expect


    There is also a steam test... But that is OT here.


    PS.... Many of the tests are not the final say; BUT allow a person with technical knowledge and an understanding of coffee and all the variables to make an informed call as to Equipment Vs PEBFAG.

    As GW would say - True Intelligence ;)

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Quote Originally Posted by 735C5557407F535C5355575F575C46320 link=1259038566/7#7 date=1259104643
    See Defs -

    SS is the sweet spot for your EM6910as determined by running a shot through an empty dual-wall basket;


    GS is where the needle ends up when you run a good shot.

    THE so called SS is a factory test and calibration / QC check.

    Point 0.4 Filter Test:

    • Make sure pressure pointer is at 12o’clock (tolerance +/- 2hrs).
    • Check the quantity of water coming out from the nozzle during 0.4 test.


    Thus you allow for the +/- 2 hrs and that should be the SS reading on YOUR gauge and the 0.4 provides the calibrated back pressure..Now with a true commercial machine, you would use GW gauge and tweek ya boiler temp and take not of what it says on the main instrument gauge as well.

    In either case you then need to look at your Beans/Dosing / Tamp to get the ideal shot in the cup....But if it is significantly off... And the machine has been checked... Then it is YOUR METHOD, regardless of machine.

    For many reasons, I and others have found that in general about 1hr plus is the actual true GS indicator value that should be aimed for...But again it is a guide as BEANS/DOSING and TAMP all play a significant part...


    And yes...You can check the water quantity as well.Timed from teh moment you hit the switch.... Have only found this to be a problem with FILTHY machines and or blocked Anti Calc filters...Opps another variable in the flow that can cause problems...

    As stated before.. Do teh test with the double walledbasket, the rubber blind and check to see how stab;le over timeGrin

    PS.When I the double walled basket in my B.F.C. / DIADEMA1 group espresso machine my gauge balances at about 0.9bar plus... Exactly as I would expect


    There is also a steam test... But that is OT here.


    PS....Many of the tests are not the final say; BUT allow a person with technical knowledge and an understanding of coffee and all the variables to make an informed call as to Equipment Vs PEBFAG.

    As GW would say - True IntelligenceWink
    So the sweet spot bears very little relationship to a good pour.
    It seems to be a way of testing that your machine has enough pressure depending of course on the combination of the pressure from the pump, the calibration of the guage and the precision of the hole in the dual floor basket. ;D

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Quote Originally Posted by 4C575E484B463F0 link=1259038566/8#8 date=1259105973
    Quote Originally Posted by 735C5557407F535C5355575F575C46320 link=1259038566/7#7 date=1259104643
    See Defs -

    SS is the sweet spot for your EM6910as determined by running a shot through an empty dual-wall basket;


    GS is where the needle ends up when you run a good shot.

    THE so called SS is a factory test and calibration / QC check.

    Point 0.4 Filter Test:

    • Make sure pressure pointer is at 12o’clock (tolerance +/- 2hrs).
    • Check the quantity of water coming out from the nozzle during 0.4 test.


    Thus you allow for the +/- 2 hrs and that should be the SS reading on YOUR gauge and the 0.4 provides the calibrated back pressure..Now with a true commercial machine, you would use GW gauge and tweek ya boiler temp and take not of what it says on the main instrument gauge as well.

    In either case you then need to look at your Beans/Dosing / Tamp to get the ideal shot in the cup....But if it is significantly off... And the machine has been checked... Then it is YOUR METHOD, regardless of machine.

    For many reasons, I and others have found that in general about 1hr plus is the actual true GS indicator value that should be aimed for...But again it is a guide as BEANS/DOSING and TAMP all play a significant part...


    And yes...You can check the water quantity as well.Timed from teh moment you hit the switch.... Have only found this to be a problem with FILTHY machines and or blocked Anti Calc filters...Opps another variable in the flow that can cause problems...

    As stated before.. Do teh test with the double walledbasket, the rubber blind and check to see how stab;le over timeGrin

    PS.When I the double walled basket in my B.F.C. / DIADEMA1 group espresso machine my gauge balances at about 0.9bar plus... Exactly as I would expect


    There is also a steam test... But that is OT here.


    PS....Many of the tests are not the final say; BUT allow a person with technical knowledge and an understanding of coffee and all the variables to make an informed call as to Equipment Vs PEBFAG.

    As GW would say - True IntelligenceWink
    So the sweet spot bears very little relationship to a good pour.
    It seems to be a way of testing that your machine has enough pressure depending *of course on the combination of the pressure from the pump, the calibration of the guage and the precision of the hole in the dual floor basket. ;D
    Huhh - Tell that to every supplier who calibrates their *top end machines that is has NO relation to a GS..

    YES and NO.

    YES if you manage the BEANS/DOSE and TAMP.

    NO.. If you expect the machine to do it all for you..



  11. #11
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    This is what I still dont quite get - the quality of a pour depends on beans plus grind/dose/tamp - you cant get a good pour without good GDT so if your pours are consistently good you have managed your GDT by definition!

    The opposite is not necessarily true though: you can fluke a great shot blindly following the pressure gauge - but it will be more by luck than by judgment and not repeatable.

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Quote Originally Posted by 5875350 link=1259038566/10#10 date=1259108386
    This is what I still dont quite get - the quality of a pour depends on beans plus grind/dose/tamp - you cant get a good pour without good GDT so if your pours are consistently good you have managed your GDT by definition!

    The opposite is not necessarily true though: you can fluke a great shot blindly following the pressure gauge - but it will be more by luck than by judgment and not repeatable.
    I think some are missing the point *;)

    We are all looking for that God shot...

    I have seen people pull some interesting shots - some actually tast OK and they have done it breaking every rule *;D

    A: However, consistency is not attainable

    B: Temp of water and the Pressure / flow are the two main mechanical things that all good machines try to manage and to keep consistent..

    It is then up to the user to manage the other variables... That way they can be supported and you can compare methods and outcomes to some extent... My shot is bitter or sour... *Those responding will assume any number of factors are Stable and consistent.

    In the top end posts you will see a lot about 0.9 / 1.0 and 1.1 and the effect it has on what in the cup and teh shot... *If any of these said they get a great shot at 1.5 or higher ..... Most of us would ask... What is wrong ? *Gauge / Temp / Method */ Machine out of whack etc etc

    Thus at no stage in any of my posts have I said that the SS is the only factor... The gauge is highly unreliable!!!! Well not repeatable across one to teh next. Same goes for USERS *;D

    Hence, when people say - Ya need to be running in the RED... It is incorrect for many systems.

    If they say their SS is 12 and they are running at 3 then it is an indicator that there is a problem with THEIR METHOD... They are over extracting ? - Maybe.. It may give a good shot; but is due to QUALITY of the BEANS / Grind *etc

    If their SS is 11 and running at 11:30 - 12:00 and getting bitter or sour.. Then it could be Temperature or something else...

    But at least those trying to assist, *have a better understanding of how the / your unit might be running...





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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Quote Originally Posted by 0B242D2F38072B242B2D2F272F243E4A0 link=1259038566/9#9 date=1259106809
    Huhh - Tell that to every supplier who calibrates theirtop end machines that is has NO relation to a GS..
    I didnt say "NO relation"

    The so-called sweet spot is obtained by pumping water under pressure from a pump that would probably vary in pressure from machine to machine through a 0.4 hole that would probably vary in size and the resulting pressure being measured by an uncallibrated guage to obtain a reading that is OK if its within +/- 2 hours.

    I think this bears little resemblance to a top end machine supplier calibrating their machines pump pressure with a calibrated pressure guage.

    To me the word "sweet spot" refers to a point you would be aiming for during a pour or for anything for that matter. I think the more appropriate word should be "calibration spot"

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Quote Originally Posted by 776C6573707D040 link=1259038566/8#8 date=1259105973
    So the sweet spot bears very little relationship to a good pour.
    Little Vs No....

    Perceptions and that is why trying to help people is so Difficult.. Most only read what they wish to see..

    Then there are those that want the finest detail and proof, and others that expect that you have esp and know every thing about their machine/ the way its used and how they use it.. My coffee is crap, please help ?


    Then the other side is that Generalization can be a good approach if you accept that some DETAIL may be left out or over looked.. However the other parties also need to be on the same page.

    Saw two units only yesterday - Lurkers - They said they got the info from CS ???? Have been OVERDOSING and running their EM6910 and a EM4800C to the max.. The 6910 had dule floor and the 4800 had a roughfly made single... Guess what :o

    • Collar on teh 6910 - Stuffed - Black hard plastic collar on the EM4800 cracked and ONE lug on the PF broken...


    As to the following.. NO
    Quote Originally Posted by 776C6573707D040 link=1259038566/12#12 date=1259117389
    I think the more appropriate word should be "calibration spot"
    A major misunderstanding for many is the term Calibration - Do a few years of Metrololgy and you will very quickly see why.

    In essence a number of measurements and adjustment / change.... In general... users can not alter the reading...

    But I digress...

    The principle that I have attempted to communicate through generalisation etc is that there are a number of items that need to be understood about the EM6910 and that the gauge is an indicator. Thus before you start complaining or advising where the gauge should be... You need to know the limitations and what the unit is doing without USER intervention...


    The duel floor basket - Did I forget to say that it needs to be clean - Opps assumptions... How naughty of me. As to the Hole size... very accurate ( Opps assumes that said user has not been poking said hole with a sharp object). I could go on but I wont for now...

    ( In the Middle of calibrating an array of some very special Photomultipliers - Clinical outcome is at risk).

    Love to all.... Is it not an eye opener ::)










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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Quote Originally Posted by 77585153447B57585751535B535842360 link=1259038566/13#13 date=1259120091
    As to the following.. NO
    shawty wrote on Today at 1:49pm:
    I think the more appropriate word should be "calibration spot" *
    Well...
    How about "within loosely acceptable limits spot" then ;D

    But still not what you should be aiming for during a pour.

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Quote Originally Posted by 2B30392F2C21580 link=1259038566/14#14 date=1259120741
    Well...
    How about "within loosely acceptable limits spot" then

    But still not what you should be aiming for during a pour.
    OT... You naughty person you..

    Who told you that my PSA test was high and causing flow and direction problems.. :o

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    SS is a bit above 11.00 on mine...

    GS closer to 11.45 based upon a (fairly) heavy tamped, fine (but not too fine) grind and a double shot single floor basket.

    I have found the need to adjust the grind depending on the beans however (hence Ive now got a little notepad sitting next to the grinder until I work my way through all the beans I want to try and settle on my preferred blends)

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    I use the double unpressurised basket. I aim for the 1300 for the GS spot & give or take an hour for a great shot. I find the 1300 best for my machine,

    The calibration shot (my version) with the pressurised basket for my machine was at 1400.

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    This is prob a dumb question ;D But is when you say 1300 or 11.00 etc are you meaning notchs on the guage? If so mines running a around the 8th (in between the light and med tan colours) with both dual and single floor baskets, but it soemtimes wont seal a leaks like a bitch!

    GS is further up the guage around the middle of the dark brown.

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Quote Originally Posted by 554A4A250 link=1259038566/18#18 date=1260861350
    This is prob a dumb question ;D But is when you say 1300 or 11.00 etc are you meaning notchs on the guage? If so mines running a around the 8th (in between the light and med tan colours) with both dual and single floor baskets, but it soemtimes wont seal a leaks like a bitch!

    GS is further up the guage around the middle of the dark brown.
    As the gauges are all diferent... The numbers we refer to... Should be refrenced to a clock face... ie. 12:00 is dead top centre. Trust that helps.

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    usually it is about 1300 for the most part... after many changes and the training classes i have managed to get some good shots out there... love it!

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    How come there is no 1500 on the poll?


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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Quote Originally Posted by 787F646C6B797E0A0 link=1259038566/21#21 date=1261829698
    How come there is no 1500 on the poll?

    > 1400

    Besides if ya have to red line it all the time and or ya Sweet spot is at 1500... Then the gauge is way out of wack or your pushing the system to its limits...

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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot


    Just tested my 6910, the sweet spot using a double dual floor basket was dead on 11:30.

    a Good shot i would say 10:00 to 11:30 :)


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    Re: Poll for EM6910ers - sweet spot vs god shot

    Havent tried the SS but sitting sweet at about 12:00 or just beyond for a GS



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