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Thread: Is it a split seal?

  1. #1
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    Is it a split seal?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight

    Hi CSers,

    I have been having some leaking from the group head of my 6910. This has been like this for quite some time. First i thought maybe it just becuase im using a blade grinder and the grind is just too fine. I have upgraded the grinder but some leaking still remains. Have been reading a lot of threads on here for some time relating to the 6910. At first i thought maybe its just a design flaw but reading all info on this website i think it could be a split seal or something. Lets keep this in mind that i have had it like this since it was new.

    My question is how do you know if its a split seal?
    I have physically checked the group head, evein using a little mirror to reflect the insides of group head.

    Any advice from you guys would be appreciated ::)

    Keep on CSing.... 8-)


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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    If you unscrew the showerscreen (Where you were looking with the mirror) you can take the group seal out and check it out. It should be blue. DONT let the screw fall down the sink hole!!

    Nick

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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Thanks Nick,

    I have taken out the seal and had a look at it. I appears to be like new.Cant even see any wear or anything. Was scared to open it up before as i didnt want anything to go wrong but it was prety easy. Although looks a lot flash from the insides of my old machine i.e. em 4800. :o

    So the problem still remains. Does anyone else has some other suggestions or something i can try? :-/


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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3F302B273F3A3F285E0 link=1261730468/2#2 date=1261803628
    Thanks Nick,

    I have taken out the seal and had a look at it. I appears to be like new.Cant even see any wear or anything. Was scared to open it up before as i didnt want anything to go wrong but it was prety easy. Although looks a lot flash from the insides of my old machine i.e. em 4800. *:o

    So the problem still remains. Does anyone else has some other suggestions or something i can try? :-/
    A couple of recent posts by new members..

    Unless teh collar has fully split..

    One can only assume a few things and take what data you provide...

    Thus Dose Level / Tamp and Grind all point to either BEANS or User ;)

    What is ya sweet spot ?
    Have you done a 5 cent test ?

    What is the gauge reading when ya doing a pour (use a clock format... Not the gauge colour etc)

    If ya lost on any of teh above... then go here http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1257241858

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    Re: Is it a split seal?


    Hi AM

    Quote Originally Posted by 456A63617649656A65636169616A70040 link=1261730468/3#3 date=1261804170
    Unless teh collar has fully split..

    Dont think it is the collar, it locks in at 6 o clock prety firmly. And i have had this issue with it since new. Actually when i got it. I pulled one shot (using my blade grinder at the time) and the grind was so fine nothing came out. After that i pulled other shots and instantly it started leaking from the group head. Over the months i have found ways to minimise the leaking. But it still happens if i experiment with the grind just a little bit. Nevertheless, it still gives me my coffee fix every morning but would be good if i could sort this problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by 456A63617649656A65636169616A70040 link=1261730468/3#3 date=1261804170
    Thus Dose Level / Tamp and Grind all point to either BEANS or User
    The beans are quite fresh. After reading all the info on here on how beans need to be fresh i always get my beans from the local roaster which is quite popular in this city. Sometimes they are even too fresh and i get bubbles in my expresso. ::)

    Quote Originally Posted by 456A63617649656A65636169616A70040 link=1261730468/3#3 date=1261804170
    What is ya sweet spot ?
    Have you done a 5 cent test ?
    I am not sure as what you mean sweet spot but if i look at the gauge usually i get a good pour when the gauge is between 10 to 12 o clock.

    Have not tried the 5 cent test so i will get back on that one. Although i dont think i overdose as most of the time there is no indentions in the puck. However if i do overdose or over tamp the leaking just gets worse. :-[




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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7B746F637B7E7B6C1A0 link=1261730468/4#4 date=1261805119
    I am not sure as what you mean sweet spot but if i look at the gauge usually i get a good pour when the gauge is between 10 to 12 o clock.
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1259038566/

    If its leaking when locking in at 6:00 and the Sweet spot is between 10:00 and 12:00 then there is something a little odd.... If every thing else is correct...

    1: Try locking in a bit harder... Not forcing but a tad more...

    2: Are the shower screen in correctly etc.. TG has a doc some where... As I know others have done it wrong...

    3: Have you tried a Spacer ? in the head with teh seal ?

    It just sounds like it is not sealing correctly... Thus Seal / spacer / not locked in correctly..

    When did you last clean it all ?




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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1B343D3F28173B343B3D3F373F342E5A0 link=1261730468/5#5 date=1261805988
    If its leaking when locking in at 6:00 and the Sweet spot is between 10:00 and 12:00 then there is something a little odd.... If every thing else is correct...
    yea i thought so too. i am reading that most poeple on here get the sweet spot around 12 o clock or more. If i push it that much leaking is increased and also handle tries to become unstuck. :-/

    Quote Originally Posted by 1B343D3F28173B343B3D3F373F342E5A0 link=1261730468/5#5 date=1261805988
    1: Try locking in a bit harder... Not forcing but a tad more...
    I am tempted to do this but i dont want to cause any damage to the collar. Im prety sure they made it so it should lock in at 6 o clock like most commercial coffee machine.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1B343D3F28173B343B3D3F373F342E5A0 link=1261730468/5#5 date=1261805988
    2: Are the shower screen in correctly etc..TG has a doc some where... As I know others have done it wrong...
    I have never removed the shower screen untill today to check for the seal. I also took this chance to give it a clean but looked manily fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1B343D3F28173B343B3D3F373F342E5A0 link=1261730468/5#5 date=1261805988
    It just sounds like it is not sealing correctly...Thus Seal / spacer / not locked in correctly..
    I am quite keen to try the spacer Will i need to contact sunbeam for this?
    It is possible to get from hardware store? ::)


    Quote Originally Posted by 1B343D3F28173B343B3D3F373F342E5A0 link=1261730468/5#5 date=1261805988
    When did you last clean it all ?
    I am a quite clean fanatic, if you will. I like things to be tidy. Hence i make sure i give the machine a good overall clean once a week. I follow the guidelines in care and cleaning pg 29 of the user manual.

    -Cycle water through the group head.
    - Purge steam for about 20 seconds then wipe with wet cloth.
    -Remove filter basket from filter handle, rinse both in running water.
    - empty the drip tray and hand wash with mild detergent.
    - also general wipe down of the machine.
    - Take out cup warming plate give it a wash.

    Also i have done the cleaning of the group head using the sunbeam tablet. No descaling yet as dont think is required yet.

    Appreciate the help :)


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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2629323E26232631470 link=1261730468/6#6 date=1261808623
    Quote Originally Posted by 1B343D3F28173B343B3D3F373F342E5A0 link=1261730468/5#5 date=1261805988
    If its leaking when locking in at 6:00 and the Sweet spot is between 10:00 and 12:00 then there is something a little odd.... If every thing else is correct...
    yea i thought so too. i am reading that most poeple on here get the sweet spot around 12 o clock or more. If i push it that much leaking is increased and also handle tries to become unstuck. :-/


    [edit]So what is ya sweet spot... Have you run the test and got a value ???[/edit]

    Quote Originally Posted by 1B343D3F28173B343B3D3F373F342E5A0 link=1261730468/5#5 date=1261805988
    1: Try locking in a bit harder... Not forcing but a tad more...
    I am tempted to do this but i dont want to cause any damage to the collar. Im prety sure they made it so it should lock in at 6 o clock like most commercial coffee machine.

    [edit]NO NOT at all... Assumptions will get you every time... My semi comercial unit will not get past 7 let alone to 6, when empty.

    It does not lock in as such... You keep moving it from left to right untill firm and tight.. *There is NO STOP or lock.
    [/edit]

    Quote Originally Posted by 1B343D3F28173B343B3D3F373F342E5A0 link=1261730468/5#5 date=1261805988
    2: Are the shower screen in correctly etc..TG has a doc some where... As I know others have done it wrong...
    I have never removed the shower screen untill today to check for the seal. I also took this chance to give it a clean but looked manily fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1B343D3F28173B343B3D3F373F342E5A0 link=1261730468/5#5 date=1261805988
    It just sounds like it is not sealing correctly...Thus Seal / spacer / not locked in correctly..
    I am quite keen to try the spacer Will i need to contact sunbeam for this?
    It is possible to get from hardware store? ::)

    [edit]No... Do a search as per the link I gave you... Some Sb agents will send, others say it does not exist... If desperate, then you can make one your self... It has been posted many many times... Use the search...[/edit]

    Quote Originally Posted by 1B343D3F28173B343B3D3F373F342E5A0 link=1261730468/5#5 date=1261805988
    When did you last clean it all ?
    I am a quite clean fanatic, if you will. I like things to be tidy. Hence i make sure i give the machine a good overall clean once a week. I follow the guidelines in care and cleaning pg 29 of the user manual.

    -Cycle water through the group head.
    - Purge steam for about 20 seconds then wipe with wet cloth.
    -Remove filter basket from filter handle, rinse both in running water.
    - empty the drip tray and hand wash with mild detergent.
    - also general wipe down of the machine.
    - Take out cup warming plate give it a wash.

    Also i have done the cleaning of the group head using the sunbeam tablet. No descaling yet as dont think is required yet.

    [edit]Note: With a extra seal/washer... *all it means is that you will move the group to about 7 rather than 5... *If you not putting enough pressure... It will still not seal... As I say... There is no lock.[/edit]

    Appreciate the help :)

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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    How old is the machine?
    Did you buy it new?
    How many coffees a week do you make with it?
    How dirty was the back of the screen when you took it out?
    Where does the handle lock in with an empty basket?

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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Hi TG,

    I have done the sweet spot test using a dual floor double basket and the value is 11:30. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D514C575D5C4B5E565D390 link=1261730468/8#8 date=1261817788
    How old is the machine?
    Did you buy it new?
    How many coffees a week do you make with it?
    How dirty was the back of the screen when you took it out?
    Where does the handle lock in with an empty basket?
    The machine will be one year old in jan 2010. Although it has been used for 8 months of that period. I bought this as new from a guy said he no longer needed it. He was right it was never used before. i was the first person to use it.

    For 6 months i had been making 5-6 coffees a week.
    Now i have a flatmate so for the last two months its been making 10-12 coffees a week. ::)

    The back of the screen was not so bad. It was a little bit black. I cleaned it all before putting back.

    When the handle is empty it locks in the same position i.e. 6 o clock.

  11. #11
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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Doesnt sound like wear and tear from overuse or abuse.

    The seal is quite flexible.
    Did you give it a thorough inspection looking for splits?

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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3639222E36333621570 link=1261730468/9#9 date=1261865950
    I have done the sweet spot test using a dual floor double basket and the value is 11:30.
    Did that leak at all ?


    Did you get the original receipt from said owner ?


    If sweet spot is 11:30 and a good pour is about 12:00 then looking at the age...

    1: Split seal... If your correct... Then = NO

    2: Worn collar..... Just a quick look is not enough.. But is also usually one of having to lock in at 5:00 or even 4:30..

    Please try and lock ya system in at 5:30... If ya want... Add some rice bran oil or other food grade grease to ya lugs... This will assist...

    Take it slow... The results will assist TG to work out what is wrong... I will be off line for about a week...


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    Re: Is it a split seal?



    Yea im quite gentle with it and also gave the flatmate some training on how to use it and keep it clean ;D

    I looked the seal over prety well. Nothing out of the ordinary i can report. There were some black stuff probably from the coffee oils. Anyway i gave it wash before putting back. :)

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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Hi AM,

    It did not leak during the sweet spot test. ( maybe a little bit)

    Quote Originally Posted by 143B32302718343B34323038303B21550 link=1261730468/11#11 date=1261866651
    Did you get the original receipt from said owner ?
    This is the good part. I have got the receipt from the original owner. Plus he also got a extended 4 year warranty. I transferred this in my name a few months back. So now it is covered for another 4 years. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by 143B32302718343B34323038303B21550 link=1261730468/11#11 date=1261866651
    Please try and lock ya system in at 5:30...If ya want... Add some rice bran oil or other food grade grease to ya lugs...This will assist...

    Take it slow...The results will assist TG to work out what is wrong...I will be off line for about a week...
    I guess i will have to try locking in tighter at some stage. Will see how i go. :-/

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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E514A465E5B5E493F0 link=1261730468/13#13 date=1261867423
    Hi AM,

    It did not leak during the sweet spot test. ( maybe a little bit)

    Quote Originally Posted by 143B32302718343B34323038303B21550 link=1261730468/11#11 date=1261866651
    Did you get the original receipt from said owner ?
    This is the good part. I have got the receipt from the original owner. Plus he also got a extended 4 year warranty. I transferred this in my name a few months back. So now it is covered for another 4 years. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by 143B32302718343B34323038303B21550 link=1261730468/11#11 date=1261866651
    Please try and lock ya system in at 5:30...If ya want... Add some rice bran oil or other food grade grease to ya lugs...This will assist...

    Take it slow...The results will assist TG to work out what is wrong...I will be off line for about a week...
    I guess i will have to try locking in tighter at some stage. Will see how i go. *:-/
    That tells me ya not locking in hard enough and that there is some minor collar ware.. This is not ideal but to be expected...

    Once ya start having to get to 5:00 or 4:30 with a spacer as well; then teh collar needs replacing... A seal spacer usually corrects the problem for a while... And with that, you would go from a 5:00 lock to about a 6:00.

    The old red devil at work... Was locking in at 5:00 with a firm touch and maybe 4:30 with the pigs using it... After a good 12 months of use at work... Was about 9 months old when it went in...

    A new seal and spacer and after a further 9 months, is about 5:30.... Once it gets to 5:00 or 4:30 it will be a new Collar..

    Just take it slowly...

  16. #16
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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    anu Im with AM on trying to lock it in about 5:30.
    There may be some slight wear; the collar metal is VERY soft.

    Heres an example of locking in by sight not feel:
    After changing the seal on my Expobar my son decided to make his friend a coffee.
    Hes only ever used the machine a couple of times before.
    He locked the handle in a 6:00 as hed seen me do many times.
    What he didnt know was that Id been given a 8mm seal instead of an 8.5mm.
    This meant that it "locked" now at about 5:00 instead of 6:00.

    He tells me the resultant mess from the handle blowing off went everywhere. :o
    Come to think of it, I dont think hes touched the machine since.

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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A667B606A6B7C69616A0E0 link=1261730468/15#15 date=1261869023
    He tells me the resultant mess from the handle blowing off went everywhere.
    Come to think of it, I dont think hes touched the machine since.
    giggled like a schoolgirl....

    Yep... Until ya done it... Ya will never know.....

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    Re: Is it a split seal?


    ok so i did the sweet spot test again. I stand corrected. There was no leaking at all (locked in at 6:00).

    So should i still try locking in at 5:30 ? :-?


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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    YES

    Quote Originally Posted by 353A212D35303522540 link=1261730468/17#17 date=1261870844
    ok so i did the sweet spot test again. I stand corrected. There was no leaking at all (locked in at 6:00).

    So should i still try locking in at 5:30 ? :-?
    YES

    Be firm but gentle ;)

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    Re: Is it a split seal?


    Ok so i just locked it in 5:30 to make my coffee. It was great didnt leak a bit. Made myself a lovely latte :)

    so does this mean i need to lock it at that point from now on? and it wont damage the collar?

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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2F203B372F2A2F384E0 link=1261730468/19#19 date=1261879352
    Ok so i just locked it in 5:30 to make my coffee. It was great didnt leak a bit. Made myself a lovely latte :)

    so does this mean i need to lock it at that point from now on? and it wont damage the collar?
    If all ya dose / grind and tamping is correct and ya not over stressing the machine... Then you should be OK for some time.. I would see about getting another seal and a spacer as a risk management approach; to the future... If SB can not supply... Evil bay has them... All be it slighly more $$ than I would expect to pay from SB or a good SB agent...

    Every time you use a machine there is some level of stress and damage being done to one or more parts... The issue is to make sure that damage ( normal and expected) is not in excess and as per my systems at work... Expect to get 3.5 to 4 years and then a new Collar... $55 Australian and I will fit.. It is the labour that is the killer as it is a pain to do..

    Take it slowly... and you will be fine...

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    Re: Is it a split seal?


    Thanks AM,

    yea i will try to contact SB to get them to give me a spacer and a seal as well. i know the seal i can probably get from trade me (nz auction site) for about nz $10. Im sure SB customer service is probably not working since its holiday time. Will try early in the next year. The help here has been awesome. :)

  23. #23
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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 616E757961646176000 link=1261730468/21#21 date=1261885417
    i know the seal i can probably get from trade me (nz auction site) for about nz $10.
    Sounds too bloody cheap.
    Mustnt be original.

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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Hi TG,

    Well they seem to look prety decent. They are made of rubber and probably mass produced so i cant see why the manufacturing would be too high. How much does a seal for a 6910 cost in oz? :-?

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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    the seals that espressotec sell on there will not fit the sunbeam, they are quite different.

    Sen

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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Hi Sen,

    are you sure? they seem to have a huge collection. :-?

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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 636C777B63666374020 link=1261730468/23#23 date=1261946995
    How much does a seal for a 6910 cost in oz?
    $25 :(

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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 353A212D35303522540 link=1261730468/23#23 date=1261946995
    i cant see why the manufacturing would be too high
    I didnt say anything about manufacturing cost; I was talking about retail price.

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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5D5249455D585D4A3C0 link=1261730468/23#23 date=1261946995
    They are made of rubber and probably mass produced so i cant see why the manufacturing would be too high. *
    Cheap manufacturing = cheap product; someone needs to tell the market pronto! :o




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    Re: Is it a split seal?



    As Senator has said, the seal i was looking at will not fit the sunbeam. Next move i guess is to give sunbeam call centre a call. :-/

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    Re: Is it a split seal?


    Hi CSers,

    Just an update, called up sunbeam hotline today but it looks like they are still on holiday >:(

    Does anyone know how to do a DIY job with the seal for the sunbeam. Maybe putting some electric tape or something similar onto the seal. maybe a single layer should be enough?

    Just thinking of ways i could increase the space between the inside of the group head and the seal so the group handle will lock in tighter and create a better lock. ::)

    Any idea do let me know. 8-)

  32. #32
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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D6279756D686D7A0C0 link=1261730468/30#30 date=1262585305
    Hi CSers,

    Just an update, called up sunbeam hotline today but it looks like they are still on holiday >:(

    Does anyone know how to do a DIY job with the seal for the sunbeam. Maybe putting some electric tape or something similar onto the seal. maybe a single layer should be enough?

    Just thinking of ways i could increase the space between the inside of the group head and the seal so the group handle will lock in tighter and create a better lock. ::)

    Any idea do let me know. 8-) *
    TG , myself and others just made one up from a bit of thin cardboard... Ie. A manilla folder... or from a corn flakes packet.

    Use teh CS search feature... All teh sizes have been posted many times before..

    AM

  33. #33
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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    All you have to do is trace onto the cardboard using the seal as your template.

    A few minutes with some scissors and away you go.

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    Re: Is it a split seal?


    NO NOT at all... Assumptions will get you every time... My semi comercial unit will not get past 7 let alone to 6, when empty.

    hi am
    if this is the case then the seal you are using is too thick or the wrong one.
    commercial handles need to be locked in to a minimun of 6 oclock


    Hi anu
    the minimun position for the handle on the sunbeam is the arrow on the group shroud, approx 5.30


    putting a spacer in will only increase your problem,
    your seal doesnt sounds like it has a problem

    see image showing NORMAL starting position for a NEW machine

    [img][/img]

    The seal is made from silicone rubber and has a lot of flex in it, so the slower the extraction, the more load on the seal = more chance of leakage = pulling handle tighter
    the collar is going to wear, whatever you do.

    the major source of problem for the collar is overdosing, because when you overdose the handle cant lock in freely enough, causing excess wear

    dont be scared to pull the handle in tighter if needed


    graham


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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Hi guys,

    So i have been following the advice from everyone. I now lock the group handle at about 5:30. Also now i wet the tip of the filter basket with some water before locking it in the group head.

    This seems to totally fixed the leaking. But it doesnt finish there. Noticed a new problem now. Last few days i been getting really good shots, i mean awesome shots actually.

    Its the first time the pour takes 20 plus seconds to do 30ml. All the other times i would get there in about 10-15 sec...i know thats way too fast. But since the leaking has stopped the shot quality has been awesome. The guage usually hits the chocolate area. I would be proud to place my shot next to any other commercial machine shot, that how good it looks. ::)

    Now the problem is after the shot. After the shot has been pulled and later when i start my clean up. I take out group handle and the puck is stuck to the screen. This is happened every time i get a really good shot.

    Does anyone know why this is happenning?

    Now it takes me an extra 5-10 mins to clean my machine early in the morning when i am supposed to be getting ready for work. :(

    Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.



  36. #36
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    It happened to me a few times but I could never work out why.
    My only suggestions would be a "slightly" lower dose or try removing the handle sooner and sitting it on the drip tray until you are ready to clean up.

  37. #37
    A_M
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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Quote Originally Posted by 407C617A707166737B70140 link=1261730468/35#35 date=1263346238
    It happened to me a few times but I could never work out why.
    My only suggestions would be a "slightly" lower dose or try removing the handle sooner and sitting it on the drip tray until you are ready to clean up.
    And

    Quote Originally Posted by 757A616D75707562140 link=1261730468/34#34 date=1263342691
    Now the problem is after the shot. After the shot has been pulled and later when i start my clean up. I take out group handle and the puck is stuck to the screen. This is happened every time i get a really good shot.
    12 / 18 months ago... Could reproduce with an under dosed basket.. There was a stack of posts and disscussion on it..

    I first thought over dosing... But I was wrong... Underdosing is the cause..

    PS. 20sec from when ?

    Remember... From when you hit the button.

  38. #38
    Senior Member
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    Re: Is it a split seal?

    Hi AM,

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A555C5E49765A555A5C5E565E554F3B0 link=1261730468/36#36 date=1263363894
    PS. 20sec from when ?
    Yea i saw in lot of posts that the count starts once you hit the button. Although i did not time it par se but am prety sure it was in the 20-30 second mark.

  39. #39
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    Re: Is it a split seal?


    Ok so i tried taking the handle out right after the shot but still it gets stuck to the screen. Then i tried AMs suggestion of overdosing, that just made it start leaking everywhere, so not very good.

    I think i might need to make the grind coarser and try that. :(



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