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Thread: EM69AMB - Under development

  1. #1
    A_M
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    EM69AMB - Under development

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    OK..

    Been playing a bit.

    1: On most of the EM69xx series (other than the latest units) They have a stepped lug and this compounds the collar issues.

    2: Temp control and would like a bit more on the top end.

    3: Steam issues re temp / valve / Switch / pump and coffee grinds causing issues.


    Ideal... Needs to work on EM6910 units and if possible EM6900 units.

    1A: *I use a Dremel and get rid of that step and then polish. * Works for EM69xx * * (Note: May now be a comfortable move with ease; from 6 *towards *4)

    1B: Replace ya seals more often


    first crack: On the EM6900, grind a bit off the bolt head and use an EM6910 inner shower screen (I just reversed the 6900 i had and did a bit of panel beating... Caus I can).

    Then you can easly clean ya shower screens and remove the seal without taking out the bolt and loosing that one way check valve.


    2A: *Added some change in the Group sensor circuit and now get about *2 to 3 more C in the group thermoblock..

    2B: *Added some change in the Steam sensor circuit and now get about an extra 5 C.

    Note: OT protection is in place and as the units need to have safety cut outs these have been left standard. * But the difference between operating temp and OT is not *that great on the steam.

    More detail on part 3 to come..

    Here is a sneek preview. I-[s]Phone[/s]Bricks are good at crappy pics *8-)

    This will be my emergency spare and holiday system...




  2. #2
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    Re: EM69AMB - Under development

    Excuse my ignorance AM, but, what model is or was that ? My steam wand is still working ok after following your proceedure by the way.

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    Re: EM69AMB - Under development

    Quote Originally Posted by 464750504B4E475A220 link=1270540936/1#1 date=1270545005
    Excuse my ignorance AM, but, what model is or was that ? My steam wand is still working ok after following your proceedure by the way.
    It was once an EM6900 *;D *cir *42 week of 2005

    But has been modded some what; to see if I can just add some life to it.

    Additions / mods to date:

    1: *6910 steam valve assy with a 6900 steam pin and tec note modification

    2: *Temp mods as per previous post

    3: *Upgraded micro switches on steam and hot water. * Have looked at 3 recently and the leaver can / does get broken... Due to user management. *Thus can be intermittent on the pump starting..

    4: No steam OP valve - Thus no stuffed steam pump by coffee grinds or *too much back pressure in the group head

    5: Italian pumps - Steam and hot water

    6: Has modified steam tip

    7: Baked hamertone dark charcoal / black *top and drip tray

    8: Baked Heat proof ally for the group *shield

    9: Modified old 6910 group collar with bronze pop rivets inserted.

    10: Modified inner shower screen

    11: Modified OLD warped group that has very tapered lugs. *Thanks Mr Dremal

    Now, in some ways it is easer to mod a 6900... But there are a few changes you can make to your EM6910 to enhance steam and its reliability, as well as reduce the likelihood of coffee grinds getting in and stuffing ya system.

    That will all follow as I make further refinements and run some further tests.. But at this stage.. *May yet have a one off EM69AMB for the next CSs get together *in Brisy.


    A pour off between the KLIIB T2 and the EM69AMB


  4. #4
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    Re: EM69AMB - Under development

    hi AM

    No steam OP valve - Thus no stuffed steam pump by coffee grinds or too much back pressure in the group head

    how do you get coffee grinds in the steam pump

    love the colour

    graham

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    A_M
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    Re: EM69AMB - Under development

    Quote Originally Posted by 323D2C540 link=1270540936/3#3 date=1270627728
    hi AM

    No steam OP valve - Thus no stuffed steam pump by coffee grinds or *too much back pressure in the group head

    how do you get coffee grinds in the steam pump

    love the colour

    graham
    Waiting for it... Thanks. *

    In fact they do *;) in the simplest form.

    1: older units had Italian steam pump and straight to the Steam thermo block..

    Problem.. The pumps are not rated at high temp ?

    Problem.. When steam is turned off.. Heat gets back through the system and cooks pump system

    Fix 1. *Use a thick clamped hose to deliver steam.

    Problem.. Did not 100% fix the problem

    Fix 2. Technical service note. All system had a grove cut into the steam valve tip.

    This allowed for some of the excess pressure and heat to escape at the end. Had a small positive flow on.

    Helped to clean excess milk out of the tip.

    Note: Earlier systems also had a smaller shaft and tip. The later ones are bigger and thus with limited movement - when opened, the space at the tip allows more steam.


    2: Newer units Chinese steam pump with a fancy OP component... Can be seen on page 4 of the parts manual.. Another tick in the box.

    When ya close off the valve and pressure builds up, it vents via this OP valve. *The coiled copper is also to manage heat from the thermo block transferring to the pump.

    Now this extra line had to be T into existing flow lines..

    Check if that line on any of the systems you look at *is dirty or stained... *

    Then the Steam valve is suffering and grime and crap is moving back down a line it should not... *

    If that adjustable valve in the steam system gets jammed (what scale ?) open, then you get week steam and will get waste / crappy stuff being forced back into the steam system and or thermo block

    In addition if the top solenoid get jammed with coffee grim / grit then even more stuff can get forces into places it was not meant to go.

    Note: Maxing out the Em69XX with Overdosing and Tamping will add to issues and of course - Slack maintenance.

    OUTCOME. *

    Mod the EM6910 to work like the EM6900

    But what would I know.


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    Re: EM69AMB - Under development

    how do you get coffee grinds in the steam pump

    Waiting for it...

    still waiting

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    Re: EM69AMB - Under development

    Quote Originally Posted by 2926374F0 link=1270540936/5#5 date=1270639267
    how do you get coffee grinds in the steam pump

    Waiting for it...

    still waiting
    If ya have any understanding of the EM69xx series... The points above explain it all.

    It in all their technical service updates and once ya pull / strip a "dead unit" all the hard evidence is there.

    For those that cant follow flow or have never actually taken a closer look..

    The dump / waste line has a T and is joined to the Steam pump outlet at the OPV ... The one that does not exist... Oh... That one.. Oh its in the manual too...

    Now we know that only clean unadulterated fluid only ever goes down the wast line... *:o :o :o

    Thus after *ya *dont perform maintenance , have crappy water, scale etc Over dose ... Burst seals and forse coffee grinds back into the system..

    Oooooo Warrrrrr * Doh - * Where do you *think it might GO *:o ::)

    Well at some stage x happens and then y occurs and then grinds / fines in the Steam OPV and loss of steam / clogs into the thermoblock, funny gauge *etc...

    PS. Check out the specs for operating temp and pump rates etc.. And then other bits might start to make some sense.

    You know Fix... You must see it all the time.. In fact I have two of the steam vibe pumps here where the OPV is total open... *Yep steam is week and ya can see it making its way out to the waist line.. *50/50 I reckon they call that.

    One came good after a ultra sonic bath .. The other... Well.. coffee fines all through the thermoblock and the line to the waste was almost *like cottage cheese... *I think they must have been sucking milk *::)

    Well screwed it in and liquid metal to seal.. Used the standard blank on the main joiner to then put the tubing that is now no longer required.

    This is now in my EM69AMB system... *Steams like a trooper...

    Any one here ever have involvement / experience in reverse engineering or is it all follow the bouncing ball and tell.me.google.com ?


  8. #8
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    Re: EM69AMB - Under development

    Looks interesting AM

    How/where do you get the technical note updates?
    I have the Revision A parts manual, but thats all I can find.

    Sometime Id be interested in seeing your modifications to the temperature control circuits also. Would be interesting to see how much more steam could be produced. We had a family invasion over Easter and after brewing several sets of 6 lattes, I have been looking at second-hand HX machines!

    Regards

    Russell

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    Re: EM69AMB - Under development

    Quote Originally Posted by 585F59594F4646482A0 link=1270540936/7#7 date=1270645322
    Looks interesting AM

    How/where do you get the technical note updates?
    I have the Revision A parts manual, but thats all I can find.

    Sometime Id be interested in seeing your modifications to the temperature control circuits also. Would be interesting to see how much more steam could be produced. *We had a family invasion over Easter and after brewing several sets of 6 lattes, I have been looking at second-hand HX machines!

    Regards

    Russell
    For some there are 60 of separation, but when talking neural networks there are always these dynamic Super nodes that bring it down to 4 or less :-)

    Ask TG about a TRUE Quality focus and the fact that 99% of people and technicians only ever look at the symptom and the obvious cause... *They never ask WHY enough times or look to the basic principles of Physics...

    Like a bowl of jelly.. A little poke on any point has a flow on throughout the whole mass. *Now some are important and others are just artefacts etc.

    Have attached a great example of a nasty incident and the outcomes and the way some looked with open eyes and others just put the blinkers on. Scoots and other will / should recognise the title in a flash. See attachment.

    With; Trades / Quality / Auditing / Management / IT / Survival / and many years of hands on experience... Many things just jell and I can see in a six sence sort of way, where a problem might be and importantly- am then already moving 5 or 6 steps back, to work out the Root Cause.. Not just the Trigger... Unfortunately the trigger is what most stop at...

    Thus in context... Good information often comes to hand or can be found if you work the networks available; but sometimes ya have to step out side of the square....

    I have a parts manual / basic service training manual / Validation specs / tests etc *and other scrap bits that get passed on to me. But like many things; with out prior experience much does not make sense, without the context or prior understanding of what is going on.

    Watch / *Listen and Evaluate in silence; was what my combat / survival trainer always keep drilling into us... *Its true. Thus, if ya was just up the road.. Ya could come around and sweep me shed... Getting messy and will be firing up the KLIIB some time in the next day. Perfect opportunity to Watch / *listen and evaluate *;D

    As to that HX... MY old baby is still awaiting a new home.... See the FS topics.

    PS. Just spent 1 hr unblocking another Steam thermoblock from an old system that I just received. *Pump would slowly choke and a dribble of steam at best...

    Pump was 100% OK... OH... Broken lever on the switch... So that also explains why it was intermittent to run.

    Now for the trick... *Dont try to flush fluid or you will draw the wrong conclusion or should I say - attack the problem from the wrong approach and end up somewhere else.

    If you use a big syringe and try pushing AIR in either direction... It would move and appear that there is no blockage... but has some excess back pressure... *

    But try pushing a fluid and NO... *A drop at best/ if at all... *These are the easy ones.... Rather than trying to push a cleaning fluid - Wont work.. Ya make up a frothy batch and push / pull foamy cleaner through it... Lots of air so it goes where a viscus fluid will not.

    So simple and it soon cleans it enough; to allow one use a full fluid flush.. But most dont approach the problem that way and can spend hrs or just give up in frustration... *

    For a fully blocked system.. Ther are other tricks in the bag *;D

    PS. Temp mod again is SO simple..

    May not be 100% reproducible from unit to unit... But does it matter.... Not really. *Ya do a before and after test and from there you know what ya settings should be (indicator) to get the outcome you want.


  10. #10
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    Re: EM69AMB - Under development

    Well things are bouncing along...


    Alex T dropped over and I assisted a little more on his Feama.. Looks like it will be a goer ;D

    Plenty of bits to play with... All but for the main items... :o

    Collar / Group Handel / Pressurised baskets / Steam Micro switch are either Broken / Not included...

    Need pressurised baskets and group handels :(

    The other thing is that the 3 steam thermo blocks I have looked at have all had some level of restriction.. How much prior to sitting around, is another matter.

    Will need to do a cook off between the EM69AMB and the KLIIB T2 and have a couple of CSérs over for auditing purposes.




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