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Thread: I think I spoiled myself

  1. #1
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    I think I spoiled myself

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight

    Hi guys I joined this forum as I realize the people I know that do like coffee, and like to talk/discuss about it, have barely any iota of what they are talking about, or know that much, mainly because either they are satisfied going to a franchise coffee(dome/merchant/aroma/etc.) or because they arent that interested in the art of espresso.

    Anyways I have taken a barista course where we used Synessos and Mazzers I intend to apply to several cafes even if it is franchise to get some experience in the workplace since I have been redundant since march.

    However I was looking at investing about no more then $1300; thats the max. However I think Im already a bit to snobby at what this budget offers, since I want to get something that is very close to the Synesso Cyncra :( I know it isnt going to happen unfortunately.

    Is there any good espresso machines barring the Silvia, lelit? something thats slightly better then them, yet has the same functions that the synesso has?

    Any good grinders you recommend, I was going to pick up the Sunbeam cafe series for the $$, but I want to know if the $400-700 grinders are really worth the dough.

    Im a big coffee drinker, but the machine would probably get 4 cups a day at the most.

  2. #2
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    Quote Originally Posted by 634640524255554248270 link=1274422303/0#0 date=1274422303
    Is there any good espresso machines barring the Silvia, lelit? something thats slightly better then them, yet has the same functions that the synesso has?
    What particular functions are you referring to?

    Your budget is pretty much spot on for a Silvia/Rocky combo if you want to buy new. For anything better youll have to buy second hand.

  3. #3
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    preheating cups prefer, individual boilers for steamer, and shot, decent steamer, and just two levers/switches to pull the shot, and texture the milk, thats all I could care about.

    I heard the boilers in the silvia rust though, though I would want a commercial portafilter... Im tempted to snap a la pavoni, bet thats fun, as much as a fun experience, being involved in the process.

    Q. is it worth paying the extra $700 or whatever on a new/used VBM lavetta-picollo, or domobar??

    regards

  4. #4
    TC
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    Quote Originally Posted by 587D7B69796E6E79731C0 link=1274422303/2#2 date=1274428280
    I heard the boilers in the silvia rust
    :-? since when? Aluminium boilers (Gaggia et al) will corrode. Brass boilers dont unless you put some nasty stuff in them!


  5. #5
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    Ive found that with coffee, you deffinately get what you pay for.
    you are more likely to get good, concistant coffee with a good grinder paired with a slightly inferior machine, than you would with the opposite, so yes, id suggest buying a grinder in the $400-700 bracket you mentioned.
    *
    Quote Originally Posted by 70717B687673691A0 link=1274422303/1#1 date=1274426146
    Your budget is pretty much spot on for a Silvia/Rocky combo if you want to buy new. *For anything better youll have to buy second hand.
    +1 *:)

    Im planning on spending my tax refund on a La Pav and Mazzer. *Ive had experience with both machines and have been greatly satisfied, if you are interested in learing more about the process etc, id say go for the La Pav, theyre great fun. *:)
    the thought excites me, although realistically this wont happen until mid july-ish.

    good luck mate
    kotaro

  6. #6
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    If youre going to get a job in a cafe, then just drink espresso at work and save the money for a while.

    Sounds like youll be too snobby for your own espresso. I have a decent home machine - but I cant make a doppio ristretto like they do at my favourite cafes (Mecca or Campos or Tobys or Workshop Espresso for example).

  7. #7
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    Quote Originally Posted by 26030517071010070D620 link=1274422303/2#2 date=1274428280
    I heard the boilers in the silvia rust
    Bad information, brass does not rust. ;)

  8. #8
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    Quote Originally Posted by 07222436263131262C430 link=1274422303/0#0 date=1274422303
    I want to know if the $400-700 grinders are really worth the dough
    I would have thought the barista course would have taught you that? Comparing a 0480 to a mazzer is chalk and cheese, IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by 07222436263131262C430 link=1274422303/0#0 date=1274422303
    yet has the same functions that the synesso has?
    Not in that price range, no way. sry :(

  9. #9
    A_M
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    Quote Originally Posted by 68545D4550310 link=1274422303/6#6 date=1274433769
    Quote Originally Posted by 26030517071010070D620 link=1274422303/2#2 date=1274428280
    I heard the boilers in the silvia rust *
    Bad information, brass does not rust. ;)
    Rust = Corrosion by another name *;D

    And after they been sitting in the yard, with a blown element for some time they corrosion.

  10. #10
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    Quote Originally Posted by 625B51515D5E5D7E53464657320 link=1274422303/5#5 date=1274432721
    I have a decent home machine - but I cant make a doppio ristretto like they do at my favourite cafes (Mecca or Campos or Tobys or Workshop Espresso for example).
    ;D Thats a pretty big list to top mate ;D

  11. #11
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    Quote Originally Posted by 4F4B6D7474716E7976180 link=1274422303/7#7 date=1274434055
    I would have thought the barista course would have taught you that? Comparing a 0480 to a mazzer is chalk and cheese, IMO
    Actually not, the course focused more on where to get coffee beans from - unroasted, and roasted in australia, and just perfecting the techniques in making ristrettos, long macs etc. The grinders that we used were doser-less Mazzers that are around the $3,000 mark. My guess is... well they look just like the Mazzer Super Jolly.

    The Synesso Cyncra, and Mazzer was all that we used. So I dont really have much of a clue about the cheaper grinders, just been recommended by the cafe to get a Mazzer Mini at the very least I had a laugh.

    So personally from the reasons they told me why they use a doser-less grinder I think I might go that route.

    Quote Originally Posted by 07222436263131262C430 link=1274422303/0#0 date=1274422303
    yet has the same functions that the synesso has?
    Not in that price range, no way. sry :( [/QUOTE]

    I had a strong gut feeling that a one group head similar would be around $11k. Well again the question is still left unanswered

    Silvia V. VBM. Is there a significant difference, I shall wonder the interwebs to see, however it seems to be the silvia is the benchmark despite it being button, which I am unsure about.

    Thanks for people who have taken the time to post. :)

  12. #12
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    One thing to consider is that a well maintained Silvia retains excellent value when you want to upgrade.

  13. #13
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E6F6576686D77040 link=1274422303/11#11 date=1274437189
    One thing to consider is that a well maintained Silvia retains excellent value when you want to upgrade.
    They certainly do. ;)

  14. #14
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    Daguerro,

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you need to do a lot of research before investing money in a home set-up.

    Youve started well with a course, and that may have indeed spoiled you. Grinders are ultimately more responsible for the taste of the coffee than the espresso machine, and this is the reason that the most keen of the members here have spent your whole budget and more just on their grinder.

    Good luck with the research--there is tons of great information here and very little filler.

    Greg

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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B7E696B5B637E616D60680C0 link=1274422303/13#13 date=1274444381
    Daguerro,

    I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you need to do a lot of research before investing money in a home set-up.

    Youve started well with a course, and that may have indeed spoiled you. Grinders are ultimately more responsible for the taste of the coffee than the espresso machine, and this is the reason that the most keen of the members here have spent your whole budget and more just on their grinder.

    Good luck with the research--there is tons of great information here and very little filler.

    Greg
    No problem Greg, I can understand where you are coming from, and many people including the barista said grinders were essentially trying to keep the oils that you extract in the beans. I know you could have the best espresso machine and 5 months old beans, and get bad coffee.

    I guess its like audio its the source that counts, no matter how good your amp, or headphones are, its the source(CD player) that counts, and the quality that song was recorded and formatted.

    Being an Audiophile I can relate in this sense. I can understand that Grinders are just as important to coffee as amplifiers are. No doubt the quality of grinders will make a difference. I just dont have any concept of the quality difference between the $200 - 800 marker.


  16. #16
    A_M
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F4A4C5E4E59594E442B0 link=1274422303/14#14 date=1274446861
    I just dont have any concept of the quality difference between the $200 - 800 marker.
    Interesting as that is teh range where the biggest changes are,,

    Think it as a 0.20 kg platter on a cheep motor Vs 8.0kg platter on a fluid air drive.. Assuming you understand real audio..

    Same first cut raw material with lots of base and dynamic range, some good quality amps with $45K plus worth of speakers in a purpose built sound room...

    The grinder is the platter.. Cheep will give distortions and poor reproducibility when trying to get teh best from something... The better one will allow you to have more control and to select and pull those extremes into play..

    The thing is, a 12g or 16kg platter and drive system, will cost much more and yet the performance gain may not be realised in sound quality in the first instance.


    As a rough guide..

    Grinders... Bottom end 200 - 500 Mid 500 to 1800 top 1800 PLUS..

    PS. As to sound... Once ya over 16 its all down hill any way (Biological fact) and any thing else is just self emancipation :o


  17. #17
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    Hi Daguerreo & welcome!

    To give you a comparison from my experience (without all the audio references!), I started with a Sunbeam EM6910 Coffee Machine and a Sunbeam 0480 Grinder. Both did a great job but I knew I could get better.

    Once I could afford it, I bought myself a new Macap M4 Doser Grinder (equivalent in price and quality to a Mazzer) and a second hand Maver HX Coffee Machine in the $1-2,000 range.

    With the grinder itself, its a heck of a lot less noisy, messy, it grinds quicker and the taste of the ground coffee is a lot better - well and truly worth the money!

    With the Coffee Machine, it steams milk quicker, it pulls a much better shot and is a true pleasure to use. The one downside, as opposed to the old 6910, is that you have to wait for the machine to heat up, which is ~ 30 mins, but its worth the wait for the quality.

    I also own an (equivalent to) a Lelit Combi, which is a single boiler coffee/grinder machine pretty much on par with the Silvia/Rocky combo but a bit cheaper overall. I find this a lot quicker to use than the M4/HX combo, it heats up quicker and is a lot more compact. Its just not as much fun to use because it is button operation rather than leva but, as far as quality in the cup goes, theres a slight difference but not a great deal because the grinder in it is quality.

    Hope this helps - I can understand the want to have it now, rather than wait as you dont know how long it will take to get a job in a cafe, but you do know how long it will be until you get a quality cup of coffee! :D

    Cheers
    Di

  18. #18
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    Thanks for your response. It is not necessarily a want immediately, but more or less getting something that you want, then going through 5 espresso machines in the course of 3 years.

    I tend to buy something that i keep for more then 6 years.

  19. #19
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    Re: I think I spoiled myself

    another vote from me for splashing out on the grinder - makes a HUGE difference.

    As for a Silvia or something like the VBM, when I moved from a Silvia to my Bezzera, besides the little colling flush, it was very nice to be able to forget about temperature surfing. Another big plus was the steam that blasts out of the Bezzera - huge amounts and flowing so consistently. This initially was a big hurdle for me learning to tame all that steam, but once that is acheived, texturing milk is just such a pleasure - this is compared to the Silvia which has steam is sort of wild in terms quantity and consistency.

    There are HX machines in the used stuff for sale area, including my own :P. A little more than your current budget tho.

    hope this info helps.

    gavin.



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