Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: imat combo - how do i get a decent extract without temp surfing

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    26

    imat combo - how do i get a decent extract without temp surfing

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    ive had my imat mokita combo for almost a month now and without temp / time surfing (so walkup shots), i cant seem to pull a half decent shot that tastes anything better than my crappy sunbeam em4800??

    the taste of my lattes dont even come close to what i get a regular cafe. is the only way to reach this via surfing / PIDing?

    anyways i know my technique is far from decent but heres what i do...

    1) ensure the boiler is full by running water through the steam wand.

    2) let it heat up for around 20-30mins.

    3) grind 1-3 day old beans (tried a roastery in pyrmont and my fave the brewery) around the setting of 3 1/2 - 4.

    4) now i try to do a slight variation of the stockfleth move where i just run my index finger around the circumference of the basket until i feel its relatively well distributed and leveled. i avoid using my fleshy part of my palm as it feels very awkward.

    5) i then proceed to tamping the sucker like i would an orange (read that somewhere). i have noticed that there is a slight gap between the tamp and the basket even though its a 57mm tamp? when i remove the tamp, some of the loose grounds from the edge fall into the middle and i tip the handle upside down so it falls out careful not to shake or knock it. it doesnt all completely drop but i dont brush this as not to disturb it.

    6) next i lock it in and pull the shot. the extract usually looks pretty good starting with a dark brown then going golden and then blonde around the 20-25 second mark. the extract runs fairly even through both spouts which i gather is a relatively even tamp?? i usually then take a glance into the cup to get a look of the extract and it generally looks fairly decent, but if i give it a quick swirl i notice that the crema is very thin even though it seems thick during the pour??

    i also notice that i get some grounds sneaking through into my coffee and a slight bit of this brownish froth floating around - best described as sewerage-looking. usually after this im restraining myself from pouring this filth down the sink :-[

    7) now i switch on the steam and wait for the light to go off and froth the milk. this either comes out too thin or too thick for any latte art and just blobs by the end of my pour. i do however really like the smoothy, creaminess of the bubble-less foam produced though :)

    so there you have it - my very ordinary home-barista skills!

    im sure there are plenty of things to work on here but would appreciate any advice on what i should work on first?

    oh and one last thing, i havent descaled this machine since ive gotten it and will hopefully do so this coming weekend - but does descaling make that big a difference?

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,339

    Re: imat combo - how do i get a decent extract without temp surfing

    Hi johnzo

    Wow, what a routine!

    Forgetting the texturising for the time being...

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A6F686E7A6F000 link=1278933865/0#0 date=1278933865
    is the only way to reach this via surfing / PIDing?
    Definitely not. All you need do is make sure the water isnt sizzling when it comes out of the group.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A6F686E7A6F000 link=1278933865/0#0 date=1278933865
    around the setting of 3 1/2 - 4.
    Settings on your grinder are reference points for YOUR machine only. Dont worry about the numbers - focus on the extraction. Too slow, grind a little coarser; too fast, grind a little finer.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A6F686E7A6F000 link=1278933865/0#0 date=1278933865
    i try to do a slight variation of the stockfleth move
    My goodness. Your coffee could go stale with all those maneuvers! Id only try that if I were entering a WBC, and even then, probably not. How about filling the basket, rap it down on a matt a couple of times, scrape level and tamp. Or something simple along those lines. I presume "tamping the sucker like i would an orange" means that you tamp with a lot of force? You shouldnt need to.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A6F686E7A6F000 link=1278933865/0#0 date=1278933865
    i notice that the crema is very thin
    Coffee could be too fresh - or stale! Lets presume its the former. Lots of CO2 being given off during extraction and the crema will dissipate quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A6F686E7A6F000 link=1278933865/0#0 date=1278933865
    slight bit of this brownish froth floating around
    Over extracted? Tell tale sign is when you knock out the puck and find a residue of oils on the surface of the basket. Reduce the amount of coffee in the basket, OR grind coarser, OR tamp lighter. Try one thing at a time.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A6F686E7A6F000 link=1278933865/0#0 date=1278933865
    froth the milk. this either comes out too thin or too thick
    Practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A6F686E7A6F000 link=1278933865/0#0 date=1278933865
    i havent descaled this machine since ive gotten it and will hopefully do so this coming weekend
    In the meantime backflush (not descale) the group with either Cafetto or Clean Machine.

    Cheers!


  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    26

    Re: imat combo - how do i get a decent extract without temp surfing

    ok ive purchased some Clean Machine and will do so when it arrives. how do i tell if this machine has a 3-way valve?

    sizzling water - so if the water is sizzling should i run some water out of the group head until it stops sizzling then lock and pull?

  4. #4
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warwick, QLD
    Posts
    17,548

    Re: imat combo - how do i get a decent extract without temp surfing

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F7A7D7B6F7A150 link=1278933865/2#2 date=1278972830
    ok ive purchased some Clean Machine and will do so when it arrives. how do i tell if this machine has a 3-way valve?

    sizzling water - so if the water is sizzling should i run some water out of the group head until it stops sizzling then lock and pull?
    Yep, your machine has a 3-Way Valve. Thats why youll need to Back-Flush regularly - Recommend a couple of water only back-flush routines after each coffee brewing session and once per week or so, a chemical back-flush using about a quarter teaspoon of back-flush detergent (Clean Machine). Great How-To here.... http://home.surewest.net/frcn/Coffee...Backflush.html Even though it is aimed at Silvia owners, the same holds true for the Imat too.

    Re: sizzling water.... Only flush enough water through the group immediately before locking in the Group Handle, about 2-3 seconds past when the sizzling stops.

    Also, Id suggest allowing at least 30-40 minutes for your machine to heat up properly from cold.... Theres a fair amount of copper and brass as well as water to heat up. This is with the Group Handle lightly nipped up in the Group of course. Everything needs to be nicely up to temperature before you think about pulling some exemplary espresso shots.... ;)

    Mal.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    703

    Re: imat combo - how do i get a decent extract without temp surfing

    1-3 day old beans....
    as mentioned above, if this is 1-3 days post roast, you might get better results at 7-10 days, especially while you are still learning.
    Generally I prefer results with beans that have rested for about 5+days, and will continue to get good shots over next 7-10 days.

    Milk,

    See if you can find a few videos of people steaming milk with Silvias, as they are very similar,
    should be easy to pick up a few tips,
    your machine can produce excellent microfoam with some practice.
    Sometimes it (milk) might vary a bit as milk can vary with the seasons.

  6. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    26

    Re: imat combo - how do i get a decent extract without temp surfing

    Quote Originally Posted by 527F7B777A160 link=1278933865/3#3 date=1279027162
    This is with the Group Handle lightly nipped up in the Group of course
    so does the basket get wet during this time? just give it a simple wipe to dry it before filling with coffee?

    mal - you own one these machines dont you? i know this is rather subjective, but is this machine capable of shots as good as a cafe?

    Quote Originally Posted by 54637A7A7F6262160 link=1278933865/4#4 date=1279073630
    1-3 day old beans....
    as mentioned above, if this is 1-3 days post roast, you might get better results at 7-10 days, especially while you are still learning.
    Generally I prefer results with beans that have rested for about 5+days, and will continue to get good shots over next 7-10 days.
    i actually do remember reading that somewhere too but when i popped into my local roastery (in fairfield) the lady there told me it was rubbish? and that she had never heard of such a thing. i wouldve thought owning a roastery youd definitely have a good idea of such things? hmmm...

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,339

    Re: imat combo - how do i get a decent extract without temp surfing

    Quote Originally Posted by 3732353327325D0 link=1278933865/5#5 date=1279090306
    so does the basket get wet during this time?
    No, it doesnt get wet. The heat transfers across from the group to the handle.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3732353327325D0 link=1278933865/5#5 date=1279090306
    just give it a simple wipe to dry it before filling with coffee?
    I think thats good practice, especially between shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3732353327325D0 link=1278933865/5#5 date=1279090306
    i know this is rather subjective, but is this machine capable of shots as good as a cafe?
    Depends which cafe you frequent. The Lelit produces a good coffee. I dont expect it to be of the calibre of a machine that costs 10 or 15 times the price and nor should you.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3732353327325D0 link=1278933865/5#5 date=1279090306
    my local roastery (in fairfield) the lady there told me it was rubbish?
    The lady there clearly doesnt know as much as she thinks she does. And as thats the case, maybe you should be visiting a different roastery.


  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    26

    Re: imat combo - how do i get a decent extract without temp surfing

    im just trying to backflush the machine now but the water seems to be spilling out the sides of the portafilter / grouphead rather than through the 3 way valve?

    is it because the seal is gone and needs replacing?

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,339

    Re: imat combo - how do i get a decent extract without temp surfing

    Quote Originally Posted by 393C3B3D293C530 link=1278933865/7#7 date=1279101845
    im just trying to backflush the machine now but the water seems to be spilling out the sides of the portafilter / grouphead rather than through the 3 way valve?

    is it because the seal is gone and needs replacing?

    johnzo, I dont meant to be rude, but where did you get this machine that you know nothing about? *:-?

    EDIT: johnzo, I have a Lelit on the bench at the shop. If you would like to arrange a time you are welcome to come in and Ill run you through the whole operation - start to finish. You can even bring in your own machine if you like. Better to call first and preferrably early afternoons.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    26

    Re: imat combo - how do i get a decent extract without temp surfing

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E686D6D7C7E727B7B78781D0 link=1278933865/8#8 date=1279104364
    johnzo, I dont meant to be rude, but where did you get this machine that you know nothing about?Huh
    i purchased it second hand from these forums after seeing how popular a machine it is and intended to learn as i go along - didnt think backflushing would be this difficult. :o

    i sealed up the portafilter with some tape and put in 3/4 tblspoon of Clean Machine, locked in the handle (which swung smoothly to around 120 degrees??), flicked the pump switch in increments of 2/3 seconds... was expecting to see foamy suds appear in the drip tray from the 3-way valve but water started coming out from the portafilter / grouphead instead. tightened the handle even more to around 140 degrees even but water still came through so have no idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E686D6D7C7E727B7B78781D0 link=1278933865/8#8 date=1279104364
    EDIT: johnzo, I have a Lelit on the bench at the shop.If you would like to arrange a time you are welcome to come in and Ill run you through the whole operation - start to finish.You can even bring in your own machine if you like.Better to call first and preferrably early afternoons.
    i would love to swing by - are you out at sylvania? would a weekend be okay to pay a visit?

  11. #11
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    26

    Re: imat combo - how do i get a decent extract without temp surfing

    i was following the instructions from here... they seemed detailed enough with photos

    http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/kb/imat/backflush.html

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,339

    Re: imat combo - how do i get a decent extract without temp surfing

    Quote Originally Posted by 626760667267080 link=1278933865/9#9 date=1279106361
    i would love to swing by - are you out at sylvania? would a weekend be okay to pay a visit?
    Yes, and were open on Saturdays from 8 till 2. Around 1pm would be ideal.

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    26

    Re: imat combo - how do i get a decent extract without temp surfing

    Quote Originally Posted by 4254515140424E47474444210 link=1278933865/11#11 date=1279107721
    Yes, and were open on Saturdays from 8 till 2.Around 1pm would be ideal.
    great! ill be sure to call in the morning if i can make it. really appreciate it! :)



Similar Threads

  1. Temp surfing
    By tonym1 in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 23rd April 2011, 11:08 AM
  2. Silvia temp surfing
    By benandfaith in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 1st October 2007, 10:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •