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Thread: EM 6910 - turned on whenever wall power on?!

  1. #1
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    EM 6910 - turned on whenever wall power on?!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Yesterday my em6910 started making a different rumbling noise to usual when pouring a shot.

    I took the shower screen off and cleaned it up and ran some vinegar through the back according to the descale instructions in the manual.

    This did not fix the problem and once I reassembled everything no water would come through the group head.

    I took the water reservoir out and lay the machine on its side so i could take off the shower screen and have a look around but couldnt really see anything.

    I put it back together and turned it on at the power and the machine turned on and started making a rumbling noise despite me not having pressed the power button.

    I can, independent of this rumbling, turn the power on and it flashes and loads up as normal - all the while the machine seeming to be trying to do something? Water now flows through the group head if I wait for the power buttons to stop flashing, so I guess I can make coffee... but Im obviously pretty dicey about the machine always being on (when the wall is on)...

    Im assuming this is a catastrophic failure but any suggestions would be great. My machine is just over 2 years old.

  2. #2
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    Re: EM 6910 - turned on whenever wall power on?!

    If you press the machines power on/off switch a few times fairly rapidly, does the power turn on/off then? I think that it wont so if it doesnt, the first thing to suspect is the obvious....the power switch itself has gone faulty in a short circuit condition.

    Before replacing, you can confirm if the switch is faulty by using an electrical multimeter to test it - perhaps someone could let you borrow theirs. I cant believe that replacing this switch would be a big job but others with experience in doing it, may disagree.

    Personally Id get this problem fixed before using the appliance any more. It wont fix by itself and the problem needs to be addressed sooner or later so why not sooner. The risk to your personal safety cannot be assessed from anyone behind a computer, so why take chances.

  3. #3
    Senior Member fivegallon's Avatar
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    Re: EM 6910 - turned on whenever wall power on?!

    Quote Originally Posted by 210D040407073D2007030C620 link=1304043455/1#1 date=1304044725
    If you press the machines power on/off switch a few times fairly rapidly, does the power turn on/off then? I think that it wont so if it doesnt, the first thing to suspect is the obvious....the power switch itself has gone faulty in a short circuit condition.

    Before replacing, you can confirm if the switch is faulty by using an electrical multimeter to test it - perhaps someone could let you borrow theirs. I cant believe that replacing this switch would be a big job but others with experience in doing it, may disagree.

    Personally Id get this problem fixed before using the appliance any more. It wont fix by itself and the problem needs to be addressed sooner or later so why not sooner. The risk to your personal safety cannot be assessed from anyone behind a computer, so why take chances.
    IF the rumbling noise is coming from near the power switch the last thing i would be doing is turning it on and off rapidly. I wouldnt be touching it (if i wasnt an electrician).
    Also, whilst it may not be a major exercise to replace said switch, if you dont know how to carry out the appropriate testing afterwards you are leaving yourself and others exposed to a very serious danger.
    It wouldnt be nice to have a fatality on your conscience. Insurance would also be wanting to see the repair invoice when assessing the fire claim.
    Not trying to scare you, but electricity can and does kill.
    Be safe. Get your friendly sparky to do it, or your coffee machine supplier (their techinicians will be either fully qualified sparkies or hold a Restricted Electrical License allowing them to legally repair the machines)

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    Re: EM 6910 - turned on whenever wall power on?!

    Interestingly the problem has gone away... So I guess it did fix itself...!

    Obviously Ill need to be very careful with it in future though. No doubt this problem will rear its head again.

    Im definitely not going to take it apart and fiddle with the electrics, thats not my forte...

    Maybe I inadvertently kicked off some kind of cleaning process or something???

  5. #5
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Re: EM 6910 - turned on whenever wall power on?!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E5E4941414D5E45432C0 link=1304043455/0#0 date=1304043455
    I took the water reservoir out and lay the machine on its side so i could take off the shower screen and have a look around but couldnt really see anything.
    Id bet this is your problem - even with the reservoir removed theres still water in the brew system; laying the machine flat on its back or side allows it to leak out and potentially cause a short circuit.

    Either way, its not a bad idea to turn the machine off at the wall when not in use.

  6. #6
    Senior Member fivegallon's Avatar
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    Re: EM 6910 - turned on whenever wall power on?!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2E03430 link=1304043455/4#4 date=1304054074
    Quote Originally Posted by 6E5E4941414D5E45432C0 link=1304043455/0#0 date=1304043455
    I took the water reservoir out and lay the machine on its side so i could take off the shower screen and have a look around but couldnt really see anything.
    Id bet this is your problem - even with the reservoir removed theres still water in the brew system; laying the machine flat on its back or side allows it to leak out and potentially cause a short circuit.

    Either way, its not a bad idea to turn the machine off at the wall when not in use.
    If this was in fact the case, and water was arcing the incoming wiring terminations (hence machine going on without the switch) i would next be getting the outlet checked to see if the rcd/elcb is functioning correctly.
    This should/would have operated if the issue was water

  7. #7
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    Re: EM 6910 - turned on whenever wall power on?!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6B5B4C4444485B4046290 link=1304043455/0#0 date=1304043455

    I took the water reservoir out and lay the machine on its side so i could take off the shower screen and have a look around but couldnt really see anything.

    I put it back together and turned it on at the power and the machine turned on and started making a rumbling noise despite me not having pressed the power button.

    It is because you placed it on its side mate.

    I had the same thing happen when I replaced a collar. Turned it upside down to put some screws in and when back together, exactly the same occurrence.

    Freaked me out too. Did a bit of reading on here and found out it was wet electrics.

    Left it overnight and in the morning it was fine. ;)

    Just leave it unplugged to dry out for 8 - 24 hours and should all be good.

    Chris

  8. #8
    Senior Member Rusty's Avatar
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    Re: EM 6910 - turned on whenever wall power on?!

    Interesting case.

    I always turn my EM6910 off at the power board if Im leaving the house and overnight - just to be safe 8-)

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    Re: EM 6910 - turned on whenever wall power on?!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F607F6C6E6865656667090 link=1304043455/2#2 date=1304046293
    IF the rumbling noise is coming from near the power switch the last thing i would be doing is turning it on and off rapidly.
    Electrical arcing doesnt make a rumbling sound, it is a definite buzz/crackling. If the description was a buzzing noise, the advice would have differed.

    Im not sure the RCD would necessarily have kicked-in if water ingress was the problem. The only way for the machine to be constantly on is either for the switch to be a) faulty or b) the switch contacts were in contact with the same body of water.

    Water acting as a conductor (albeit, not a good one) in effect causes a short circuit across the switch terminals . If the switch was isolated and there was no other factors in play, this wouldnt be a fault condition to trigger the RCD.

    Connecting a wire link across the switch terminals wouldnt cause a fault so neither would water acting as a conductor in an isolated switch contained within a plastic chassis.

    The above doesnt negate the need to have appliances checked over after the electric components have been compromised.

  10. #10
    Senior Member fivegallon's Avatar
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    Re: EM 6910 - turned on whenever wall power on?!

    Quote Originally Posted by 7C5059595A5A607D5A5E513F0 link=1304043455/8#8 date=1304195346
    Quote Originally Posted by 6F607F6C6E6865656667090 link=1304043455/2#2 date=1304046293
    IF the rumbling noise is coming from near the power switch the last thing i would be doing is turning it on and off rapidly. the description was a rumbling noise, not a buzzing noise so that is irrelevant
    Electrical arcing doesnt make a rumbling sound, it is a definite buzz/crackling. If the description was a buzzing noise, the advice would have differed.
    26yrs of being a qualified electrician tells me that electrical arcing can indeed make quite a horrendous rumbling sound. The description was "rumbling" , not buzzing so "what ifs" mean nothing

    Im not sure the RCD would necessarily have kicked-in if water ingress was the problem. The only way for the machine to be constantly on is either for the switch to be a) faulty or b) the switch contacts were in contact with the same body of water.
    the vast majority of coffee machies are made from stainless steel, it is highly unlikely the machine container was holding water and contacting a live supply without also touching the frame at the same time and as such the rcd should in fact trip, and im not talking about the switch that is high up on the machine but if there are terminations down low. the water can also quite easily provide a supply to part of the control circuit thus turning the machine on
    Water acting as a conductor (albeit, not a good one) in effect causes a short circuit across the switch terminals not necessarily just the switch terminals depending on the wiring arrangement inside the machine . If the switch was isolated and there was no other factors in play, this wouldnt be a fault condition to trigger the RCD. once again, if the water is arcing from a live supply at an incoming terminal to the machine frame it wouldnt matter a rats whether the machine switch was on or not

    Connecting a wire link across the switch terminals wouldnt cause a fault so neither would water acting as a conductor in an isolated switch contained within a plastic chassis.
    and the number of machines with plastic chassis is...??
    The above doesnt negate the need to have appliances checked over after the electric components have been compromised.yay

  11. #11
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    Re: EM 6910 - turned on whenever wall power on?!

    Im not really sure about the technicalities you guys are discussing but...

    I left the machine to dry out until this morning and tested it out, the rumbling noise has gone and the machine is working as per usual...

    Interestingly the rumbling (not buzzing, rumbling, as though it was performing a function) slowly seemed to die away when it was plugged in (I left it plugged in for several minutes hoping it would stop)...

    Hopefully whatever it was is all dry now and the problem wont surface again...

    I definitely wont be placing the machine on its side again!

    Thanks for the advice/info guys. I was thinking it was time to buy a new machine, which would have been a shame seeing as Ive only had it 5-6 months!

  12. #12
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    Re: EM 6910 - turned on whenever wall power on?!

    Is is possible that the rumbling is water boiling in the steam thermoblock.* I hear a similar type of noise on my recently repaired unit, but it doesnt last very long.



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