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Thread: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

  1. #501
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    In that case how about you borrow my EM6910 for a few days or have a play with it sometime at First Pour?


    I will also have a go at the primitive styrofoam cup temperature thermologging later tonight. I highly doubt it will show anything conclusive or of merit. The losses to the environment using this method would be huge.

  2. #502
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by nunu link=1166787529/480#491 date=1172275083
    If theyre offering free replacement/fixes then the units must cost them nothing to produce. *So youd seriously think theres an issue with the build quality of the internals. *You offer a bulletproof warranty when there is any question about the product.
    I personally think it is the other way around nunu.

    If you are a business you WILL offer the replacement etc BECAUSE you are so sure you will have very few problems.

    You would be stupid to offer a bulletproof warranty when you question your own product as you are expecting it to fail thereby expecting to fork out tons in warranty services/replacements.

  3. #503
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes link=1166787529/495#500 date=1172297462
    In that case how about you borrow my EM6910 for a few days or have a play with it sometime at First Pour?
    Wouldnt want to impose, but Im all for pulling a few shots at First Pour if youre happy to bring it around sometime.

  4. #504
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Ok here is how I intend to test the machine for temp stability using the "quick and dirty" method descried by JavaB on the previous page of this thread.

    1) Set the machine to 92/94/96 deg C
    2) Allow machine to warm up for 10 minutes
    3) Run test and thermolog results
    4) Allow 2 minute rest and repeat
    5) Repeat to get 3 sets of results for the 3 temperature settings

    Would anybody suggest changes in methodology?


    I will commence the test at around 6.30-7pm and post results on a graph later tonight.

  5. #505
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    luca..when you read back through the thread those who have upped the brew temp have found that the shot gets better again...so no Im not insulted because I am merely summarising the evidence from the thread.

    Cheers mate.

  6. #506
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes link=1166787529/495#503 date=1172298509
    Would anybody suggest changes in methodology?
    My understanding of thermoblocks is that the temperature of the water output is quite dependent on the flow rate. So unless youre getting something between 45 and 75mL in 30 seconds through the hole in the styrofoam cup, I dont know how useful the comparison is going to be. That method would be better suited to a silvia or a marzocco where you have a large body of water thats ostensibly at the same temperature.

    Threading the thermocouple on top of the puck is the logical way to get meaningful results, but has a few problems. First, its heaps and heaps of work to get a series of readings. Second, it uses up coffee and third, changing the depth of the bead probe affects the readings a fair bit.

    Its easy to see why Scace felt that it was necessary to make the thermofilter for proper measurements.

    Even with a thermofilter, I think that we need to bear in mind how useful the measurements actually are:

    DVM typical with E type standard = within 6.96 degrees F
    with T type standard = within 5.76 degrees F
    with J or K type standard = within 7.96 degrees F
    The above doesnt even take into account errors in measurement technique. Thats from a discussion on temperature measurement by John Bicht, the inventor of the infamous versalab equipment.

    We probably need Mark to confrim this, but the above figures seem to be saying something like if you took two thermofilters with the same DVM and a K type probe and tried to compare results with people halfway across the country, you could potentially have one person reporting 90C and another reporting, say, 94C and they would both actually be the same temperature. Conversely, two people using the same equipment and measurement techniques chatting on the internet might both set their machine to 93.5C, for example, but one might actually be at 90C and the other might be at 97C.

    However, if you used the same setup to measure two different machines and concluded that one brewed at 90C and the other brewed at 97C, you would probably be right that the second was brewing 7C, or so, hotter, but not necessarily right in saying what the actual brew temperatures were. So using the same equipment to compare two machines at the same time as you compare taste between the two machines using the same batch of the same blend seems to me like the only way to get any really useful information.

    You can see why Im something of a temperature measurement skeptic, even though I think that brew temperature is important in getting the end result.

    Im no expert, so, like I said before, I think that we need Mark to chime in on this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by ozscott link=1166787529/495#504 date=1172298595
    luca..when you read back through the thread those who have upped the brew temp have found that the shot gets better again...so no Im not insulted because I am merely summarising the evidence from the thread.
    Cool. I say that it raises questions because the comparison that I had before was with beans that were low in acidity and, although increasing the temperature helped a bit, it didnt stop them from tasting sour. So thats at odds with what others have said. Im not seeking to draw any conclusions from that; just calling it how I saw it.

    Cheers,

    Luca

  7. #507
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Okay here are the results from the "quick and dirty" set up....by no means conclusive...in fact I would rather not publish these results as they seem so erroneous. Never the less....it seems the Sunbeam is quite temperature stable just by looking at the graphs.

    The temperatures measured are way below the stated programmed temperatures. With this quick and dirty method, it is clear we need to use a SCACE type device to log this machine for a markedly more reliable results. (as alluded to by Luca)

    Here is the setup:

    nb: the thermocouple wasnt actually in the position shown in the photo. It was in the pool of water at the bottom of the cup

    Here is the DMM and laptop:



    EM6910 @ 92 deg C:


    EM6910 @ 94 deg C:


    EM6910 @ 96 deg C:


    It is interesting to note that even though I gave the machine a 10 minute warm up time for each temperature adjustment, the first test shot always seems to have a smaller temp gradient rise.

  8. #508
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes link=1166787529/495#506 date=1172311719
    Okay here are the results from the "quick and dirty" set up....by no means conclusive...in fact I would rather not publish these results as they seem so erroneous.
    I wouldnt be ashamed about the results at all. The key is to be measured in our results and not jump to conclusions. Its probably pretty uncontroversial to infer that:

    *Your equipment and methodology is giving you repeatable results. (Always good to know, but that doesnt really tell us what the actual temperatures were, for reasons discussed above)

    *Telling the machine to increase the brew temperature results in an increased brew temperature.

    As I warned before you posted this, taking the numbers as gospel and concluding that the sunbeam runs cool isnt really warranted by this data, even though 12C colder does seem a bit much! Youd need to consider

    *Instrumental error (eg. If the multimeter has 3% error, at 80C, thats like 2.4C ... of course, that could be either too high or two low. Perhaps you need to take into account the built-in error of the probe itself, as well). Did your DMM specify the measurement error?

    *Flow rate (ie. if it was too fast, youd expect the temperature to be too cold. Also, apart from the machine being a thermoblock, I guess that water pooling in the cup would probably have some sort of effect). Did you check to see what the flow rate was?

    *Cooling (ie. is the water going to have cooled significantly by falling through that air to hit the bottom of the styrofoam cup?)

    For reference, you might want to have a look at what Alan Frew reported of the 6900 here. He said 90C, dropping to 86C after 40mL ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes link=1166787529/495#506 date=1172311719
    Never the less....it seems the Sunbeam is quite temperature stable just by looking at the graphs.

    ...

    It is interesting to note that even though I gave the machine a 10 minute warm up time for each temperature adjustment, the first test shot always seems to have a smaller temp gradient rise.
    Well, the probe looks pretty beefy, so Id guess that the first shots look different because the probe is colder.

    As for shot stability, it looks good, but if the probe is holding temperature and the water is pooling up in the bottom of the cup, youve got a lot of stuff there thats holding in temperature.

    I guess that one way to get some more information out of these tests would be to do the exact same test with the same equipment on another machine.

    Good work!

  9. #509
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Wushoes....

    One thing you can do to check the reading and to get a feel for the meter / thermocouple error is to pour some rapidly boiling water into the same foam cup setup..... and plot the result.

    The plot will show how fast the setup responds and give an indication of measurement accuracy - but as luca said - the Sunbeams flow wont be correct so Id expect the temperature measured to be lower than actual....

    But still a great effort..... and Id say the temperature looks pretty damn stable at some temperature - what ever that is - given the problems with measurement.

  10. #510
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1166787529/495#507 date=1172313383
    As I warned before you posted this, taking the numbers as gospel and concluding that the sunbeam runs cool isnt really warranted by this data, even though 12C colder does seem a bit much! Youd need to consider

    *Instrumental error (eg. If the multimeter has 3% error, at 80C, thats like 2.4C ... of course, that could be either too high or two low. Perhaps you need to take into account the built-in error of the probe itself, as well). Did your DMM specify the measurement error?
    At the specified temperatures for brewing the combined error is +/- 0.75%


    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1166787529/495#507 date=1172313383
    *Flow rate (ie. if it was too fast, youd expect the temperature to be too cold. Also, apart from the machine being a thermoblock, I guess that water pooling in the cup would probably have some sort of effect). Did you check to see what the flow rate was?
    Around 1 to 1.2mL/sec, about the same as the flow rate of espresso pouring.

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1166787529/495#507 date=1172313383
    *Cooling (ie. is the water going to have cooled significantly by falling through that air to hit the bottom of the styrofoam cup?)
    I would think this is where the greatest losses occur to the environment. This is by no means an ideal experiment as:

    1) Brewing pressure is not simulated.
    2) Water has to fall a significant distance from the group
    3) There is no material that has similar temperature absorbing properties as coffee.

  11. #511
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    When I did the same test on the La Cimbali and the Solis SL90.... (a HX and a single boiler respectfully) I got 93C on the La Cimbali for probably 120+ ml then dropped a fraction of a degree from there - and on the Solis 93C for about the first 40ml then it started to fall quite quickly (presumably cold water mixing in the 300ml boiler - and the heater couldnt keep up).

    For my measurements I used the flexible bead probe so there was a very small mass to get up to temperature..... and the cup was cut off so the bottom was roughly where the bottom of the PF would be.

    I also tried the probe right at the point where water exited the shower screen (on both machines) - and found the previous temperatures to be the same - so I dont think the stream of water (high specific heat) falling through the air (low specific heat) cools significantly.....

    The main problem I see is rate of flow (just like the HX).... if the flow rate is too high, less heat is transferred to the water, resulting in a lower temperature (which will be measured)

  12. #512
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    I have the flexible/wire type probes too, perhaps I should have used these probes instead?

    In either case it doesnt matter as it seems the temperature readings are unreliable.

    Main conclusions:

    1) Upping the brew temp results in a....drum roll....higher temp :D
    2) Shot stability is quite good.

    Anybody else want to try this on their Sunbeam to compare to my results?

  13. #513
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Yep,

    Those flexible probes respond far faster. And dont absorb anywhere near the same amount of heat.

    Just a thought.... it would be really useful if you could measure the temp of the actual thermoblock... after all that is the maximum temperature the water could get to - and in fact should be pretty close to the actual temperature of the water - but that probably requires some major disassembly :(.

  14. #514
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    At the specified temperatures for brewing the combined error is +/- 0.75%
    Nice! But that would be like 0.6C, which intuitively sounds like way too little, based on Bichts thread linked to above. He gets 0.7C repeatability with a $1500USD meter and an expensive specialised probe, so I think that thats a bit ambitious! His formula seems to be to add the error to the error for the probe itself, which should be something like 2.3C for a K-type probe. So Id guess that were looking at +/-3C or thereabouts. Which is pretty good, but obviously can have a huge impact if were talking espresso temp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes link=1166787529/495#509 date=1172314503
    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1166787529/495#507 date=1172313383
    *Flow rate (ie. if it was too fast, youd expect the temperature to be too cold. Also, apart from the machine being a thermoblock, I guess that water pooling in the cup would probably have some sort of effect). Did you check to see what the flow rate was?
    Around 1 to 1.2mL/sec, about the same as the flow rate of espresso pouring.
    Hmm ... did you end up with like 75mL total or so? Thats about the amount that goes into making a double espresso, including absorption by the puck.

    I would think this is where the greatest losses occur to the environment. This is by no means an ideal experiment as:

    1) Brewing pressure is not simulated.
    2) Water has to fall a significant distance from the group
    3) There is no material that has similar temperature absorbing properties as coffee.
    Yep, well we could improve it a little bit by cutting the cup to make it fit snugger against the group. This would be interesting to do in itself, if you can be bothered, because it would give us an idea of how much heat the water is losing to the air. I dont know what difference pressure really makes, but I would have thought that if the flow rate is right, the water will absorb heat from the thermoblock at the intended rate. If you want material with similar thermal properties to coffee, the thermofilter just uses PVC, I think!

    Cheers,

    Luca

  15. #515
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1166787529/510#513 date=1172315802

    Nice! But that would be like 0.6C, which intuitively sounds like way too little, based on Bichts thread linked to above. He gets 0.7C repeatability with a $1500USD meter and an expensive specialised probe, so I think that thats a bit ambitious! His formula seems to be to add the error to the error for the probe itself, which should be something like 2.3C for a K-type probe. So Id guess that were looking at +/-3C or thereabouts. Which is pretty good, but obviously can have a huge impact if were talking espresso temp.
    Luca,

    You can quickly test using boiling water as your reference- and so long as you are at sea level - or pretty close to it - it will boil at 100C

    I have two DMMs with temp probes (one of which is the one Andy organised for us) and both read within 0.2 degrees of 100C (both low by the way).... Using the supplied K type thermocouples.

    So pouring boiling water into the test cup would plot the response time for the probe and its accuracy actually in the foam cup.

  16. #516
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Yeah. I guess we should be talking about 3 deg or thereabouts.

    My guess would have been more than 75mL for sure. I simply pressed the double cup button on the machine to give me repeatable volume.

    One of the first things I did was check to see if the cup fit under the group. It didnt, so I cut it down to size. It was a nice and snug fit, propped up by a duralex glass.

  17. #517
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Getting the flow rate correct on a thermoblock is crucial. IMO Alan Frews test is doomed to low readings and represents pretty poor experimental science. It was really like comparing apples to oranges when he compared his results to a Silvia, as boilers respond to high flow rates very differently.

    Short of making up your own thermofilter device (pretty easy with a lathe and drill press) the best way of getting the brew temperature is to snake a thin TC wire over the lip of the basket. I have found minimal leakage when using this method and the TC is seeing the water temperature right on top of the puck, and the flow rate is correct for the measurement. So if anyone has a thin bead type TC with a teflon jacket (K-type available from Dick Smith), then youre set to go. No need for a thermofilter.

    Cheers,

    Mark.

  18. #518
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Luca,

    It would be good to see what yourthoughts on teh 6910 are after spending a bit of time on it pulling shots and texturing milk.

    I know of a few people in Perth who work on some top end commercial machines all day and are still impressed on the 6910s capabilities.

    Make sure you give us your feedback should you get a chance to play.

  19. #519
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Is anyone using different baskets to what was supplied with the 6910?

    I have heard of people uing the old 6900 "quad" basket.

    Any advice from people on any other baskets worth trying?

  20. #520
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    The Quad baskets allow for more errors in dosing compared to the standard doubles... otherwise, youre just wasting coffee imho of course ;-)

  21. #521
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    So what baskets are you using marcstolk

  22. #522
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Smaller ones that come with the EM6910

    But even they are a tad larger than "Italian Standard"

  23. #523
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Yeah. I have resorted to using the "double" that comes with the 6910.

    Thinking of trying some different options from different manufactures

  24. #524
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Yeh, me too

  25. #525
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Im still to decide on what baskets I should try though. I guess it will be a bit of trial and error.

    Any suggestions on brands and sizing

  26. #526
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by chris002200 link=1166787529/510#524 date=1172554519
    Im still to decide on what baskets I should try though. I guess it will be a bit of trial and error.

    Any suggestions on brands and sizing
    I think the smaller 7g (single) and 14g (double) LM baskets work... which is probably what Ill order later on ... Anyone else know?

  27. #527
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Marc - I got standards when I had the EM6900. I kept those and they are ever so slightly smaller than the ones that came with the 6910. I have found though that the consistency and taste is better with the Sunbeam baskets for the 6910 - there is not much difference (unlike the 6900s quad sized double..) but enough to make a difference..I also like the single shape of the sunbeam single.

    Cheers

  28. #528
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by chris002200 link=1166787529/510#524 date=1172554519
    Im still to decide on what baskets I should try though. I guess it will be a bit of trial and error.

    Any suggestions on brands and sizing
    Im currently using the ascaso/synesso ridgeless baskets. Theyre a dream to use simply because the puck pretty much always knocks out very cleanly and there is no ridge to wipe out. Whilst the ridged LM double also gets great results, it is much messier.

    Cheers,

    Luca

  29. #529
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1166787529/525#527 date=1172613761
    Quote Originally Posted by chris002200 link=1166787529/510#524 date=1172554519
    Im still to decide on what baskets I should try though. I guess it will be a bit of trial and error.

    Any suggestions on brands and sizing
    Im currently using the ascaso/synesso ridgeless baskets.

    Luca
    I like this idea... I wonder if they fit in the Sunbeam PF?

  30. #530
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    They will, but if the reason why youre wanting to change is because theyre ridgeless...so are the sunbeams (virtually!) they knock out just as cleanly

  31. #531
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    yep...the sunbeams knock out well - pretty rare to have a broken lip on the biscuit and one hit normally does it on the Bang Bang

  32. #532
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    This is true...

    Im just considering moving to 7gram/\/14 gram baskets....

  33. #533
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Hmmm. some interesting points.

    I might just have a play with a few and see how they go. The sunbeam baskets always knock out a well formed puck and there isnt that much mess left in the basket.

  34. #534
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!


    Bezzera baskets are ridgeless and have nice straight sidewalls. They also seem a tad deeper than some other doubles. They are easily obtained from Barazi (a site sponsor). You never know, they actually might be the same baskets as the Ascaso baskets that Luca is using. Whatever the case I really like thee baskets.

  35. #535
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    The ridgeless baskets that Luca has arent straight walled like say an LM.

  36. #536
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Maybe my scales are off, or maybe the EM just needs to be over dosed. Ive tried the LM ridged double (14g) and I still end up with a measured dose of ~20g in the basket. * One of the guys from Veneziano grabbed a shallow double (I didnt get the type, but was effectively ridgeless, maybe Luca can guess) and it doses to around 16g. *Not sure how much is imagined but I find the shots out of the larger doubles "richer" than the shallow basket. *The LM pours quicker than the sunbeam double so you can set a finer grind, but the sunbeam holds even more than the LM ~22g. *The cup quality seems to be similar between the LM and EM baskets, use slightly less coffee in the LM but the EM knocks out nice and clean. *These are just my observations as a noob, I dont have a refined enough palate to give a detailed analysis of the difference in the cup beyond saying that I usually prefer the larger sized baskets (could just be theyre more forgiving of my technique).

  37. #537
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Interestingly enough, there was a paper done on espresso extraction and its key finding was that overdosing did not lead to more solubles in the cup. I cant vouch for the scientific methods used, but the paper was an interesting read....not a light read by any stretch of the imagination!

  38. #538
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    What I should probably do is try the three one after the other using the same beans and adjusting the grind to get the pour time similar (EM0480, so I wouldnt be able to get it the same) and try them one after the other. Three shots one after the other is a little more than Id normally have and spitting shots out just seems wrong..

  39. #539
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Gday Gavin,

    There is consensus among the long-term fraternity of the alt.coffee newsgroup that up-dosed shots most often produce the richest and sweetest brews with all else being equal. I guess, in essence, what is happening is that for an equal pour time and rate, an up-dosed shot will be a semi-ristretto, for want of a better way to put it...... The extra dose of coffee means that you are mostly likely pulling the shot up short well before blonding is likely to start and therefore not introduce bitter elements into the brew. That alone has got to be a good thing ;),

    Mal.

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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes link=1166787529/525#534 date=1172670046
    The ridgeless baskets that Luca has arent straight walled like say an LM.
    ...and the Bezzera baskets arent straight walled like LM baskets. Top 2/3 straight, last third gentle curves in to the base.

  41. #541
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Hi All,

    SPARKY.......... Im in the basket market [struggling to source Ascaso] any chance of a photo of these Bezzerra babies?
    Those "gentle curves" sure sound sexy.

    Does anybody know if they are actually the same as the Ascaso?

  42. #542
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by reubster link=1166787529/540#540 date=1172792099
    Hi All,

    SPARKY.......... Im in the basket market [struggling to source Ascaso] any chance of a photo of these Bezzerra babies?
    Those "gentle curves" sure sound sexy.

    Does anybody know if they are actually the same as the Ascaso?
    These are they! The one one on the left is the coffeeparts 18g, the right is the bezzera/boema 14g. It came with my Bezzera, but appears to be identical with a rather stained older Boema one a friend gave me.
    Brett


  43. #543
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    I get the impression from numerous posts *about baskets *that some people experience problems knocking out pucks...

    And that they have to be very straight sided, without ridges or all hell breaks loose.

    Ive used nothing but the ridged, Rancilio basket which comes with the Silvia and have never had a problem.

    First tap on the knock box and out it goes, clean as a whistle, one piece, *no remnants anywhere.

    Are *we perhaps unfairly blaming basket design *for other problems? *Knocking technique perhaps? *or leaving the puck in the basket too long so it cakes on?

    Just a thought.
    --Robusto


  44. #544
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    979

    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    I bought an rigdeless 14gm Lm off coffeeparts. (the one without original written next to it) I fit about 20gm in it for the silvia, I used to get about 16gm in the rancillio basket. taste wasnt a massive but I started playing with homeroasting at the same time so I put some other variables into the mix. shots take longer to go blonde and I now get tigerstriping which wasnt as evident before. They knock out clean too 8-).

  45. #545
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3

    rancilio silvia, sunbeam em6910 or Saeco VIA Venez

    Greetings

    I have no barista skills, but I sure love a good espresso. Ive decided to invest in a machine, my very first. I have a Sunbeam grinder EM0480 at the moment. What do you suggest I buy? What machine makes a consistently good cup and requires minimum barista skills?????

    Ive read all the great reviews here about Rancilio and would love to get one. But fear I lack the necessary skills to enjoy its potential.

    Your advice is appreciated.

    Cheers

  46. #546
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    754

    Re: rancilio silvia, sunbeam em6910 or Saeco VIA V

    Hey Welcome to CS! :)

    You will find your skill after you get your machine, well thats how i got my skills ;) You would probably end up choosing between the Sunbeam EM06910 or the Silvia, Theres some good discussions on which people prefer. But if it was me i would choose the silvia because it has better build quailty and the Sunbeam EM0480 grinder will work OK for the Silvia but would probably want to upgrade later anyway ;D

    Hope it helps

  47. #547
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: rancilio silvia, sunbeam em6910 or Saeco VIA V

    March - for me it was the EM6910 and many on this site like them. Many also like the Silvias. Can I reccomend that you spend a few hours looking through the site and you will see a lot of info on both. Make sure you get a good grinder - as a rule of thumb it should be around or more than the cost of a decent prosumer espresso machine.

    Cheers and good hunting.

  48. #548
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: EM6910 v the world!

    I get some remnants in the ridge of my LM basket but have no problem removing the pucks first whack on the knock box.

  49. #549
    Super Moderator scoota_gal's Avatar
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    4,126

    Re: rancilio silvia, sunbeam em6910 or Saeco VIA V

    [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Good reply ozscott. Pretty spot on and I agree, March, that youd be well served by scouting round the forum and reading up. After all, thats what were about here on a internet forum - the sharing of information! And we seem to do it very well here, youve just got to be prepared to read a lot! :D

    Good luck with your search. :)

  50. #550
    Senior Member
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    754

    Re: rancilio silvia, sunbeam em6910 or Saeco VIA V

    Quote Originally Posted by ozscott link=1172835440/0#2 date=1172839312
    Make sure you get a good grinder - as a rule of thumb it should be around or more than the cost of a decent prosumer espresso machine.

    Cheers and good hunting.
    Haha scott,
    If I got a $2500 machine then i would need a robur or a Swift? *:P ;D :D

    Yay 250posts :)



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