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Thread: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

  1. #601
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes link=1166787529/585#597 date=1172986028
    Firstly, Id like to address your grinder situation. Everyone preaches and knows that a grinder is more important than the machine. Youd rather know the machine is keeping you down rather than grinder.....that way you can always upgrade machines ;)

    Ok....Im assuming youre using a blade grinder....as you already know...these are very inadequate. You dont want to be using the dual walled baskets anymore because youre grinding fresh coffee. What these baskets are, are "crema enhancing" baskets and basically create faux crema by pressuring the liquid through a tiny pin hole. Start using the normal baskets and you will notice a difference.
    Im sure I must be able to get some use out of the Sunbeam blade grinder? Im not saying that a burr grinder wont give greatly improved results - Im sure it will. However, there must be some way of gettnig half-decent grounds from a blade grinder? But yes - the upgrade is on my "list of things" for the not-too-distant future.

    I am using the single-walled basket. Maybe my wording wasnt too clear above. I am using the double basket, with single walls - i.e. the double standard basket.

  2. #602
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    Sorry to disappoint, Tyagi, but blade "grinders" just dont have what it takes:

    There is no way to adjust the grind. You end up with various sized particles whereas each has to be consistently the same size if youre going to make real espresso.

    The chopping action produces heat which ruins the grounds

    Maybe you can find a non-coffee related use, for chopping walnuts or spices.

    --Robusto

  3. #603
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes link=1166787529/585#599 date=1172987839
    The black disk that everyone removes is only for heat retention in the PF....nothing else.
    It also serves a very worthy secondary function (for those who stray into the world of pressurised baskets) of keeping the extraction in the cup!! ;) Anyone attmepting to use such a basket without the disc will enjoy a machine and kitchen covered in crema, even if it is of the faux variety!!

  4. #604
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1166787529/600#601 date=1172989963
    Sorry to disappoint, Tyagi, but blade "grinders" just dont have what it takes:

    There is no way to adjust the grind. You end up with various sized particles whereas each has to be consistently the same size if youre going to make real espresso.

    The chopping action produces heat which ruins the grounds

    Maybe you can find a non-coffee related use, for chopping walnuts or spices.
    OK, thats good to know. It was cheap enough not to be a problem. It was quite heavily reduced in a sale. Ill pick up a burr grinder this week.

  5. #605
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!


    I dont know about everyone else, but I feel this thread, ostensibly Sunbeam v Silvia v The World has become seriously off-topic.

    Its become a defacto "general coffee related" or "brewing equipment" and everything but the original because many of us (myself included) have driven the thread in all sorts of directions.

    Any new comers especially, wanting to evaluate the sunbeam will have to wade through the many forks in the road responses have taken since.

    Maybe it should be closed??

    --Robusto



  6. #606
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    tyagi,

    a blade grinder is only really good for plunger type coffee..... and even then you will get some small bits of coffee in your cup :P....

    if you are EXTREMELY lucky you might get an occasional cup which you can use from the double walled baskets.....

    but you will need a burr grinder if you want anything like acceptable coffee each time - or just buy pre-ground (stale) coffee and then use the double walled baskets..... YUCK!

    You will end up wasting more coffee than the price of a burr grinder. :(

  7. #607
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    Thank you to both of you. I am the nervous but proud owner of Sunbeam EM6910! I had quite a few goes at it. Initially, the machine made a lot of noise. Its quite a noisy machine, isnt it? I suppose a kettle makes a fair bit of noise when its boiling too. But I love the speed of it all. So much faster than my stovetop.

    Ill now read more about the process of making an excellent espresso. I bought fresh beans from a local barista. My tamping skills are crude, bother on vulgar. He thinks I need to attend one of his classes. Perhaps, I should! :D

    Where do I get a normal pf for this machine? Any suggestions?

    You guys are the best. Ill keep reading the forum, and playing with it. Hopefully, soon, Ill be able to enjoy a heavenly cup.

    Cheers!


  8. #608
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1166787529/600#601 date=1172989963
    Sorry to disappoint, Tyagi, but blade "grinders" just dont have what it takes:

    There is no way to adjust the grind. You end up with various sized particles whereas each has to be consistently the same size if youre going to make real espresso.

    The chopping action produces heat which ruins the grounds

    Maybe you can find a non-coffee related use, for chopping walnuts or spices.

    --Robusto
    Technically incorrect...but for the purposes of this topic, I will agree with you.

    Technically speaking....you do want various sized particles even from a burr grinder. The variance in the whirly birds is greater and more noticeable than in burr grinders though.

    See Beanmeisters thread on "How closely do you look at your beans?"

    Indian Tiger Mountain ground in the Mazzer Mini...

    Low mag (width of image 1.75 mm)


    In essence, the burr grinder gives you many sized particles. The smallest ones makes it in to your espresso as fines and flecking. A variety of particle sizes allows some of the interstitial spaces to be filled.

    These blade grinders create too much dust and heat the coffee....which is bad.

  9. #609
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by march link=1166787529/600#606 date=1172990728
    Thank you to both of you. I am the nervous but proud owner of Sunbeam EM6910!
    Congratulations.... you will get many excellent coffees from the machine.

    Where do I get a normal pf for this machine? Any suggestions?
    march, I dont really understand your question. The 6910 ships with the portafilter to suit (the only one that does as far as I know). If you are talking baskets then the standard baskets it ships with are also "normal" and you get a set of pressurised as well (the ones with a single small hole in the bottom underneath)...

    If this isnt what you meant can you please post some more details.

  10. #610
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    Technically speaking, Washoes --- I left my electron microscope at the lab when I ground my last beans. Otherwise, I guess I would have noticed the alarmingly apparent size differential in particles and (oops) chucked out the entire grind and blamed by grinder for being below par.

    --Robusto


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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1166787529/600#604 date=1172990294
    I dont know about everyone else, but I feel this thread, ostensibly Sunbeam v Silvia v The World has become seriously off-topic.

    Its become a defacto "general coffee related" or "brewing equipment" and everything but the original because many of us (myself included) have driven the thread in all sorts of directions.

    Any new comers especially, wanting to evaluate the sunbeam will have to wade through the many forks in the road responses have taken since.

    Maybe it should be closed??

    --Robusto

    Sounds like a good idea. Lets move on :)


  12. #612
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by Saambo link=1166787529/600#610 date=1172994186
    Quote Originally Posted by robusto link=1166787529/600#604 date=1172990294
    I dont know about everyone else, but I feel this thread, ostensibly Sunbeam v Silvia v The World has become seriously off-topic.

    Its become a defacto "general coffee related" or "brewing equipment" and everything but the original because many of us (myself included) have driven the thread in all sorts of directions.

    Any new comers especially, wanting to evaluate the sunbeam will have to wade through the many forks in the road responses have taken since.

    Maybe it should be closed??

    --Robusto

    Sounds like a good idea. *Lets move on :)
    Yep, Im over this thread. Its become too much of a push to "Only buy the 6910, its so much better than the Silvia. And some of us will keep arguing until everyone agrees."

    I dont care whether people buy the 6910 or the Silvia, I do care if they are only allowed to have a one sided view of two very different machines.

  13. #613
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!


    How come all these people who are "over this thread" keep reading it and posting on it?!!









  14. #614
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    I was going to ask the same thing but didnt want to add to the....

    OH BUGGER!

  15. #615
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by mean bean link=1166787529/600#612 date=1172998258
    How come all these people who are "over this thread" keep reading it and posting on it?!!
    That unfortunately is the problem. *Its become one unwieldly, catch-all, anything-you-want-to-say-about coffee thread.

    Weve been posting here about blade grinders, electron microscopes *and everything under the sun.

    Now I would suggest that if we have things to say about grinders, we use the grinders area--instead of ad nauseaum tacking onto the end of the last post HERE.

    As I say, I am as guilty as anyone else, but posts have diverged well away from Sunbeam v Silvia debate. *

    In any case, even THAT side of posts has been exhausted to death and become repetitive.

    --Robusto







    [/QUOTE]

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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    I guess because this is a site where people ask which machine to buy. The mods move many of those questions to this thread. Id like to see that those people get a balanced view between the two machines, something Im sure most of us agree with.

  17. #617
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    Re: Silvia rate of failure poll

    Quote Originally Posted by ozscott link=1166787529/585#595 date=1172983501
    Greg Pullman found a heap of it in his Silvia kettle - please search that thead also.

    Cheers
    ozscott,

    I think your post misrepresents problems others have had....

    For example Gregs problem was in the wand / steam valve ( not the boiler) and was scale not swarf (as was originally thought).... I was involved in much of that discussion..... Scale is normal in any machine.... and others may have made the same mistake.

    Yes Silvia has its faults - just like the Sunbeams do..... but it would be better if arguments as to which was better were more factual and less emotive.... like I have tried to do (as I dont own either).

    Its far too easy to push the "mine is better than yours" barrow .... which doesnt really help people making up their mind.

  18. #618
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    I am not pushing any barrow and in fact I really couldnt care less...but if you are going to publish rate of failures, then intending buyers SHOULD be aware that there failures that dont make it to the stats. Most people would not open the Silvia and clean the swarf out of the 3 way valve, just as most people would not open up the boiler and clean swarf, scale or whatever it was out of the boiler...yet some people with Silvias have done so and thus what would normally be classed as a failure does not make it onto the stats...whereas the EM either runs or it doesnt...I dare say noone is getting inside and stuffing around with it (certainly noone has reported same on this site).

    I thought that my post was informative and I was not rubishing the Silvia...far from it because I nearly went that way and for me to get very close to buying somthing I have done a lot of yards and have come to the conclusion that its a good product. Frankly there is an imbalance at times on this site against the EM. A classic example is where Chris (2MCM) jumped in prematurely on the EM6910 thread the other day noting that it looked like another EM was biting the dust when all it was was high pressure extraction from crema enhanced buckets - I note that I made the comment that Chris seemed to have jumped in early and he appeared to have done so with relish and guess what....no reply...

    Frankly, unless I am told by the site administrators to stop I will continue to help those looking to buy with some balance, even if that is to the detriment of the site sponers in terms of the Silvia...anything they have above that is of course above and beyond anything Sunbeam has - ie their HX machines from Italy and Spain and I certainly wouldnt reccomend the Sunbeam over those little commerical type machines that steam and shoot simultaneously like the Sunbeam does.

    As for emotive Java, this is the first time that I have been emotive (ie in this reply) and for good reason...

    Cheers again.




  19. #619
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    ...ohh dont think by this that I am ungrateful to the assistance that the site sponsors such as Chris confer to me and others..and I have no doubt that I will get upgraditis at some point and will do doubt buy from a site sponsor. But it has to be said that its a 2 way street and the sponsors have a vested insterest in what they sell...that is natural.

    Cheers

  20. #620
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    ..ohh PS. You are right about Gregs post of course...I had not read it until the end and thought given his experience that what he thought it was first up (ie heaps and swarf) was accurate. There are however swarf problems in the Silvias - eg (apart from this site where it has been raised):

    "Both times there has been a blockage, its been here. The first time was a brass shaving that must have been left in the boiler from when they were tapping the threads. This caused an intermittent fault which sometimes prevented the water from flowing properly once the machine had heated up (The WA service rep for Ranchilio was unable to diagnose or fix this problem)" - see sunnypowers.perso.cegetel.net/pat/silvia/index.html

    ..thats an example but there is probably more.

    Cheers

  21. #621
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by ozscott link=1166787529/615#617 date=1173000422
    <snip>Frankly there is an imbalance at times on this site against the EM. *A classic example is where Chris (2MCM) jumped in prematurely on the EM6910 thread the other day noting that it looked like another EM was biting the dust when all it was was high pressure extraction from crema enhanced buckets - I note that I made the comment that Chris seemed to have jumped in early and he appeared to have done so with relish and guess what....no reply...
    My apologies Scott for not reading every one of your posts....

    Im pleased that the machine in question is ok...Thats a good thing...

    For those who believe that there may be bias involved in my comments regarding the Sunbeam, I simply call them as I see them.

    The Sunbeam we used at the advanced home espresso session did produce sour shots- despite tweaking of temperature. Whether this is a specific or global issue I have no Idea.

    Suppliers choose their range for a whole host of reasons. Regardless of the the fact that Sunbeam are not interested in the small guys such as the sponsors here, I wouldnt touch it anyway:

    *The EM series has a reputation for breakdowns- This makes for unhappy owners and quickly ruins the reputation of suppliers. I worked hard for my reputation and intend to keep it...

    *I choose not to stock any machine with thermoblocks because I do not like the technology nor many aspects of their opeartion. I am not interested in disposable machines nor any machines full of electronics as they lead to breakdowns and expense- refer above...Who honestly believes that Paul Bassett wanted a thermoblock machine? My hunch is that he wanted a dual boiler machine....

    *We aim to have any breakdown repaired in days, not weeks and in Melbourne, supply a loan machine. Sunbeam dont manage that? Or do they??

    Now to balance out my argument, Scott- I had a Silvia as my travel machine and shipped it to my holiday destination with a Rocky. After a week of frustration due to the level of hard work required, I sold it on return to Melbourne. I now take a HX machine or my Presso if I take a break...

    The Silvia is a good machine but takes a fair bit of work in comparison to any HX machine. Its a great machine to learn about espresso- but I choose to invest more for convenience...

    The one thing with a Silvia is that regardless what you pay for it, it will sell for $500 used....

    What will a 2nd hand Sunbeam sell for in a few years if/when upgraditis kicks in?

    Bottom line is that all buyers should buy the set of compromises which suit them and their budget. Many Sumbeam owners and SIlvia owners are happy- and after all, thats what its all about....

    Thise points made, *Im well and truely over this debate....so go crazy, guys and girls *;)

    Chris

  22. #622
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    And I think thats a wrap ;).... New threads now people 8-)

    Mal.

  23. #623
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    Re: EM6910 v Silvia v the world!

    Thanks for the reply Chris...(I cant believe you dont read all my posts!!Ha).

    Frankly I think your reply is excellent...and balanced...and thats all we can ask for. Your points about thermoblock machines etc are your opinions based on, no doubt, a lot of experience and we should respect your view from that point alone. What I didnt think was balanced was the very quick way you jumped in on the guy with the new EM6910 where there was no way it could be judged on the info supplied that he had a dud machine, to state that it looked like another one bit the dust...and that was just too juicy for me to leave alone.

    The point you raise about Sunbeam not being interested in small guys - I agree with your sentiments and have done so before on this site Chris.

    Well done on a great post...no more argument from for for now.

    Cheers

    Cheers



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