Originally Posted by mean bean link=1166175758/15#22 date=1167219102
;D :D Youll do alright here... ;) :P
FYI all, sponsors dont sell Sumbeans beacuse theyre not interested in even talking to us because were not Hardly Normal or the Good Buys ;D (not that Id wanna be involved in their warranty claims story- kill a trading reputation quick smart... ::))...Originally Posted by ozscott link=1166175758/15#23 date=1167219238
Originally Posted by mean bean link=1166175758/15#22 date=1167219102
;D :D Youll do alright here... ;) :P
I thought my reply was balanced. I dont think that the warranty history can be automatically applied to the machines that are comming out of the factory now...and further as I said before...2% of 10,000 EM machines that go wrong causes more complaints on this site than 2% of 1000 Silvias - I dont know what the stats actuall are. I dont want to talk out of my rear, but really it must be the case that the major chains and selling loads and loads comparred to Rancilio. I mean in Brisbane the best they can do when you ring the main number and ask for the nearest official distributor is to give you a number which when they answer is "Hello Cerebos" (which most people will remember for being famous for salt) and expect you to drive to a factory at Murray or somwhere and take the second right after the security gate, the next left, the next right and then the fith door on the left; knock and tell the wharehouse guy that your after a Silvia!!! - ohh..it gets better..pack cash only thanks. That puts a lot of people off. I know that you can get it from a Sponsor but warranty claims are a consideration (and they do happen - search this site for Silvia - or for that matter look a couple of post above this one).
I know that Berazi now sell it in Brisbane, but it took some searching to realise that!
Originally Posted by scoota gal link=1166175758/15#25 date=1167220014
Thanks, scoota gal. I might drop in again from the twilight zone and see how you guys are going, but as Ive had no quality coffee today, Im going to bed, where Im sure to dream sweet dreams of the finer technical differences between the EM6900 and the EM6910. Ah, sleep... bring it on!
Some good reporting/\/reviews there ... keep up the reviews...very good...
Wushoes, do some testing with the double basket... youll need to fine up the grind for a start..... having said that, if when you get the single extraction right, you really do know what your doing :)
I have lurked over the last month or so trying to make the right decision on my next machine. I was totally sold on the Rancilio Silvia till I read some of the advantages and disadvantages of it versus the Sunbeam EM6910.
I dare say I could never have got such meaningful and (mostly! ;-) ) unbiased advice if I had gone to a store, or any advice at all if I had gone to one of the chain stores !
Out of interest, I have chosen the Sunbeam EM6910, because of my specific situation :
1. Like my wine, I love my coffee, but dont have the time or incilnation to learn more about it - I just know if I drink one I like. Therefore the puritan nature and idiosyncracies of the Silvia will probably be wasted on me (or completely misunderstood)
2. I have a 2 year old daughter who wants frothy milk immediately in the morning, the same time I (and usually the missus) want a strong coffee. The advantages of the 6910 twin pumps and consistent temperature sold me, mainly on this point.
3. The package price of the Sunbeam EM6910 and EM0480 grinder is cheaper than the equivalent Silvia/Rocky combination (around $775 versus $1,115 or thereabouts)
4. The thing that nearly swayed me back to the Silvia was image (would like to show up some of my snobby mates) - but just like having a 64 Jaguar MKII is really cool and bearable if youre a mechanic, I think the machine would be in bad hands if I owned it !
My only regret is that by making the above decision, I cant buy from any site sponsors, as they dont or cant sell Sunbeam.
Shame a decent HN franchisee who likes coffee couldnt be a site sponsor too ... or somehow a site sponsor get hold of Sunbeam for those of us who go this route.
Anyway, thanks again to everyone who has posted about the features and performance of the Rancilio Silvia and Sunbeam EM6910 - it didnt make my decision easier but it made it MUCH better informed !
PS my second last machine was a Saeco Via Venezia and unlike the experiences Ive read about on here, I thought it was a heap of junk and a blight on the Saeco name. Never again ! a $499 machine that cost $130 to get serviced after a couple of hundred shots and then completely gave up the ghost. I decided to put the potential service/repair cost toward a new machine instead. I must admit I have since learned a lot more about cleaning and maintenance but it still hadnt done much work to just refuse to play at all :)
PPS my last machine was a Eurolab thing for $99 from that cheapie Deals Direct mob - I bought it just to get us through Christmas till I could make a proper decision. Now that REALLY is a piece of cr*p (as youd expect) but the entire thing died after about 30 coffees. 30 very very bad coffees at that !
Sounds like youve made the right decision for you Carl...
Good luck and enjoy the ride!
A very well explained decision process unearthed.
Enjoy your new equipment.
Thanks for the replies guys. I have to admit every time I read anything about the Silvia the emotional aspect immediately makes me want to rush out and buy one. Its like all the classic old sports cars I drool over in the Unique Car mags, (although an unfair comparison as I am sure the Silvia is streets ahead of any pommy sports car in the engineering stakes ;-)) - just that nagging bit of you cant handle it or look after it properly brings me back to reality.
I think any machine that can get the forthy milk into the cup quickly and prevent my little princess from dismantling the kitchen during a wait, will more than fit the bill anyway !
One thing that occurred to me is someone (maybe a sponsor) should do a DVD on using and maintaining the Silvia and sell it for $19.95 or something ? Sunbeam offer that DVD for theirs (I havent seen it yet - maybe it doesnt cover all that territory), and from all reports a novice buying a Silvia could have problems ?
Wouldnt have thought it was too expensive to produce a DVD these days - so if someone makes a motza from this suggestion consider it my contribution back to somebody at Coffee Snobs ;-)
Cheers and happy new year in anticipation - thank God I will have my coffee machine before 07 !
I was originally sold on the Sunbeam, but went with the Silvia for pretty much the very reasons you didnt, if that makes sense. Youll love your machine as much as I love mine. The point is that this site gives us the info to make informed decisions. :)
If you decide to try your hand at roasting your own coffee, its a much easier choice financially - $30 for a popper or $30 for a heatgun. Both reliable, but if you think youd rather switch to the other option then it isnt a huge issue.
Have fun with your new toys. :)
Makes perfect sense Viviane :D - Id like one of each really but budget doesnt allow :)
Good lord - I hadnt thought about roasting my own coffee yet ! Ill see how the trial goes with some Merlos from the local store. I will get more adventurous with it next year though :)
Another snob in brisbane! :)
Gday Carl,Originally Posted by unearthed link=1167259254/0#5 date=1167271967
And welcome to CoffeeSnobs ;D.... Sounds like youve got yourself nicely set up there. Just my $0.02 worth, but I wouldnt rush into roasting your own coffee just yet, be better to wait until youve got the new EM sussed out really well and can comfortably pull shots that are to your liking on a regular basis. Once youve got to that stage, sure.... have a go at home roasting and raise your coffee enjoyment to an even higher level. After all, that is what this site and all of us here are all about..... Great coffee :).
Keep us up to date on your journey to coffee nirvana Carl, we all enjoy hearing about the coffee exploits of fellow members (nosey bunch arent we ;)). All the best and happy brewing,
after my posting on the Krupps, you surely proved to me that such machines are an insult to good coffee!
ive gone out and bought myself the cafe series sunbeam. its makes an absolutely beautiful coffee, and its very easy to use. the only issue i have, is that is it normal to be relatively loud during the extraction process?
the matching burr grinder works a treat too - the whole thing looks great on the benchtop, and im very happy that its recieved mainly good, solid reviews on this website.
Yes, the pump on this machine and many others do sound a bit noisy during extraction. Unless it is ear splitting or you can hear things jamming and breaking, it is normal.
If the extraction is happening within required parameters (the 6910 has a gague I believe), then all should be well.
Good coffee requires a bit of noise!
Congrats on the purchase, hope you get much enjoyment from it.
Oh intentions intentions ::) I had no intentions of roasting my own either. I thought it may be too complicated :oOriginally Posted by unearthed link=1167259254/0#5 date=1167271967
It took me about three or four weeks (if that) and I was roasting. Although I did have some help and some encouragement from Hazbean ;D
CSs are a bad bad influence ;D
Hi MB and Welcome to CoffeeSnobs [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
I might be wrong but my understanding is that the EM6910 is now the "current" model and the EM6900 is the "superseded" one. I am happy to stand corrected but if it was me and this was the class of machine I was going to buy, then I would much prefer to buy the machine that is in current production....
well when the 6910 preinfuses its a bit noisy....and if you have a blond gusher....it will stay that way...but with a well extracted shot....it quietens down dramatically to a low hum...the silvia is louder during extraction for sure
Hi again all and thanks for showing interest in my progress and purchase...
Just to prove I took some action and keep everyone up to date :)
I picked up the EM6910 and EM0480 this arvo (cant believe I didnt know these model numbers at all a few days ago and am now quoting like a proper snob ;-) ) - paid $599 and $175 at Harvey Norman.
My first impressions were very good build quality (the feel and fit kills the old Saeco Via Venezia I had)
Stopped on the way home and got some good fresh Merlo beans.
Im not an experienced grinder at all, so the EM0480 might be a bigger learning curve than the 6910. Still it was simple enough to put together and use.
Took me 10 minutes to get that stupid bit of plastic out of the 6910s filter basket (as per heretics http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1167134124 post) I followed the tip of heating it by running some water through it, doubling as some flushing of the EM6910, then the slightly warped border eventually allowed me to grab it with the missuss eyebrow tweezers :) )
I flushed through a full tank, then poured 2 shots and chucked them out - they looked ok though. Tried 2 more, one wasnt bad (for me, anyway), the other a miniscule amount of coffee ended in the cup using the pre-measured 30ml - I must have had the grind all wrong. The Sunbeams gauge did seem to be telling me I was pushing water through a bit too much coffee - but then some of the reviews I read said they were operating in the upper range too - time will tell :)
Anyway, now being a bit wired after drinking both of the last shots, I decided tomorrow Ill sacrifice some cheaper beans in my self-training process - Im using Merlo Private Blend at the mo which Ill try to save for some decent shots. Ill also look into getting that Sunbeam DVD and try to get on their Brisbane training course.
(My wife is keen on limiting coffee intake, great timing :) - so Ill mainly be making single shots. I couldnt see anywhere in the instructions the recommended way of replacing the installed twin spout with the spare single spout - I guess it unscrews in normal anticlockwise direction but its not obvious to a dummy - mind you I only skimmed the booklet which was set aside in the excitement - plus maybe it is acceptable to leave the twin spout on when only pouring a single shot ? Im not a proper CS yet :p
The separate hot water and steam spouts on opposite sides of the machine are handy, but filling a cup of tea with the water spout is a bit noisy and long winded compared to the kettle :) Our 2 yo daughter liked the frothed milk from the steam wand although did say I had made it a bit hot :) ... my first critic !
All in all, no buyers remorse at all - and looking forward to some more practice (and hopefully guidance!) If I can help any newbies with how the 6910/0480 suits a novice, feel free to hit me up - Im a good coffee crash test dummy at the extreme novice end of the scale
No offence guys but there is already an existing topic about this machine. Could you please do us all the favour and post in the existing topic and not create a new one? I know Andy is working at upgrading the servers to keep things running smoothly but lets help keep it clean ourselves eh? Thanks! ;)
I owned a silvia previously....I now own a 6910.....love the 6910 more than the silvia. many, many reasons for this, although the silvia is a nice machine, it is just too finicky for the uninitiated in the espresso world. dont have to dick around with temp surfing and that in the morning...although I usually get my morning coffee fix at the cafe i work at.
PS there are videos on using silvia on whole latte love from what i can remember when researchinig the machine before purchasing it
what are you talking about scoota gal?
can you point us as to where?
Eh? Youre in it! I had a laugh!
I joined the topics together, incase youre confused, wushoes...
The website has both Mal - the EM6910 is $100 dearer than the EM6900 - the differences from a selling perspective is the programming and brushed stainless top.
I increased the bew head temp by 2 degrees in my 6910 yesterday and found an even sweeter and more flavoursome brew with home roasted beans.
the programming kicks ass. it am l33t =]
what is the last bit of that post mate
it is leet =]
Having set aside some caffeine fuelled reading time I of course found a whole page in the Sunbeam manual about how to change the double to single spout without wrecking anything, and it does recommend to use the single spout for single shots to properly preserve the crema etc
Thanks Wushoes - it was the finicky bit that worried me too - Im not renowned for my attention to detail ;-)
Its a cr*p way of spleeing on the internet.
In English it is supposed to mean Elite.
Its basically replacing certain letters with numbers.
...thanks fatboy...at 34 Im feeling old lately.
34 - I remember then - vaugely.
Sounds like youre well on your way there Carl,
From all accounts the EM6910 should be a better and more reliable machine than the original EM6900 so Im sure therell be no stopping you now ;)... All the best mate,
Just remember that a single basket is much more finicky than a double one for getting a proper extraction. Id recommend sticking with the double basket until you learn the machine/process well. Then try the single. :)
Java "Double the espresso, but half the problems!" phile
Thanks guys (and thanks Javaphile for the heads up on single versus double basket issue - I actually had no idea - Ive only tried a couple of single shots using single basket and single spout) and they probably didnt seem as good as the others using the double spout with the single basket although thats probably a coincindence ! I hadnt even used the 2 cup basket yet, so I might try that and see if I go any better.
At this stage the combination of correct grind, the beans I have and the single basket has been a bit challenging :) Definitely cant get the machine to consistently extract with the arrow in the spot of the gauge where Sunbeam says it should be, but most of the coffees made have still been way better than anything Ive made before ;-) So if I ignore the technicalities, the coffee so far tastes great, and my heartbeat is about 20-30 bpm faster than usual.
The only way is up, as the song goes :D
Like you, I am a recent CS member and was probably part of your lurking material, as I have just been through the same decision making process.
I, too, went for the 6910 and 0480. *Dont be disappointed with your results yet. Ive had mine for about 3 weeks now and am just starting to get consistent shots. Im using the double pour with double basket at this stage and havent adjusted any settings yet either.
It is a great machine and Im glad I went that way.
As for the grind, I cant say I have it perfect as its set quite low with the double basket, but more playing over the holidays will hopefully sort that out *:)
I was gonna mention that (about the website) but you beat me to it ozscott! If I do buy that machine, Ill have to be careful (since they both look the same -- in fact, the website uses the same pickies for both!) that I get the EM6910 and not the EM6900 (unlikely if its been superceded, but I could be unlucky and be sold old stock!). Mmmm, I think too strong a coffee this morning has set my nerves on edge!Originally Posted by ozscott link=1166175758/30#30 date=1167306402
But why do I want a Sunbeam (cheap, Chinese-made [no offence, China!] piece of *#@!)???? Espcially when Ive already got a perfectly good espresso machine!
Well, the story began one ordinary afternoon last July. How extraordinary it was to become I had no idea at that time. The moment I laid eyes on her, I knew here was trouble... the kind of trouble Id been waiting my whole life for.
She had that look: sleek, stylish, professional. I just knew she would wrap me around her long, slender arm and then we would really steam things up! I started to drift off into a mezmerized trance-like state and dream coffee dreams! I saw myself as a professional barista, knocking out cup after cup of rich tiger-striped crema. At the same time, swinging that elegent, slender steam wand into action! Silky smooth micro-foam and then a quick wipe with the cloth.
Coming out of my trance, I realised I was standing in a Hardly Normal store. In front of me the EM69-thingy towered over me imposingly. Her sleek, professional lines making the machines around it look like childrens toys with their short, plastic steam wands and non-commercial porta-filters!
Although hypnotised by her beauty, a niggling voice in the back of my head was whispering something that at first I tried to ignore, but, eventually, I could not: It was a Sunbeam.
I already owned a Gaggia. What was I doing?!!? A wave of adulterous guilt swept over me! Gaggia need never know. I could have my Sunbeam on the side. I picked up the group handle and felt its substantial weight. I passed my fingers caressingly over its solid metal lugs. I fitted it into the solid-looking group head and twisted: it fit snugly and I knew at that moment that one day -- maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but sooner or later -- I would be unfaithful and wake up to a Sunbeam.
To this day I have not transgressed, but, as I clean the old milk from my Gaggia plastic (heaven forbid, Im gonna say it...) froth enhancer ***gasp!***, I find myself having impure thoughts involving a long-metal steam wand, a ball-and-socket joint and lots and lots of micro-foam!!
Check out AndyCJs awesome post below where he pimped his steam wand.Originally Posted by mean bean link=1166175758/30#37 date=1167448366
There is a thread on HomeBarista
I love AndyCJs disclaimer too.
Disclaimer: You could be a total dickhead, and like, TOTALLY KILL YOURSELF if you follow ANY of these instructions. Please, if you are a dickhead, seek help. If you are not, then read the whole guide first, get your head round it, and then crack on coffee soldier!
i think the em0480 isnt good enough for the em6910. i had one...dont use it....doesnt grind consistently for my liking....and a way too fluffy...requiring a somewhat modified dosing technique.
Ive noticed the fluffiness on the sunbeam and a couple of luxes- yeah it does mean you need to overdose a bit to even get correct level.I think it must be that particular burr setOriginally Posted by Wushoes link=1167259254/15#17 date=1167454589
yep you need to dose, then collapse and redose, distribute and tamp. annoying but does the trick ;)
Can you please explain what criterion you used to make that statement?Originally Posted by ozscott link=1166175758/15#23 date=1167219238
From what little I know, the Sunbeam and Silvia have nothing in common. Their respective prices are totally different, one is a thermoblock, the other a single boiler.... Im sure the list probably goes on and on.
Because when I was looking there was not much else decent around the price range of $600-800 apart from those 2 - they both have proper commercial style groups and non-pressurised baskets and both largely stainless steel. Further I dont think that one is a thermo and the other a kettle makes much difference to the outcome of the shot particularly where the EM uses a new gen or thermo that is stainless lined and exhibits little temp drop throughout the shot - even Alan Frews review of an early 6910s short black was very similar to the Silvias but he noted that if he could get the head temp on the EM6900 to 92 degrees from 90 it would be interesting - well they have done that - 92 off the bat with the 6910 and you can crank it up further from there or downwards. The fact that Alan Frew alone chose to compare the 2 in a direct side-by-side lends support to my comment, but if I am wrong so be it - at least he gets to look over 2 good machines in the sub $1000 bracket and make an informed decision.
Others regularly on this site who are looking for one or the other are comparing one to the other - it seems to me a least a fairly natural comparrison.
typo correction: Allan Frew reviewed an early 6900 not a new 6910.
I agree with you ozscott..... Even though whats under the bonnet is completely different from one to the other, as always it has to come down to the quality of the brew in the cup. Other factors like user friendliness, shot to shot quality performance, steaming ability, price-point, etc etc will be additional factors in the decision making process and depending on whats important to a potential buyer, one will be swayed either one direction of the other. Head to head comparisons of these two machines is an inevitability and its great to read the pros and cons from so many different points of view :)
Thats akin to saying *a natural comparison of cars would be a--say---Kia, and a Ferrari: *different under the bonnet, but they both have four wheels and will get you from Melbourne to Sydney.
Ergo, a comparison is inevitable.
If one then makes a judgement based on the respective virtues of each.... Sorry, Kia, you lose. You have to.
Sorry, Sunbeam, you lose. You have to. Because there is no comparison.
Comparisons have been traditionally made between the Gaggia Classic and the Silvia..... Enough has been said on this forum alone
on that subject.
Thats not a fair analogue because a Ferarri has infinately better performance than the Kia and is 100 times the price. Here the Sunbeam is cheaper (but not by much, maybee 25%) and I will not comment on performace, because others have done that.
Not so Robusto,Originally Posted by robusto link=1166175758/30#43 date=1167465680
I think comparing the EM6910 to a Silvia is still within the framework of apples to apples.... Your definition is more a long the lines of comparing apples to watermelons, i.e. two different things entirely.... But, if thats the way you see it then fair enough, each to his/her own,