The Nuova Simonelli Oscar is a cheap HX machine in the budget... Ive never seen or used one, so no idea how good they are :P
The Nuova Simonelli Oscar is a cheap HX machine in the budget... Ive never seen or used one, so no idea how good they are :P
The NS Oscar has an ABS plastic body. So many people think they look cheap. But from all accounts they make great espresso and milk based drinks. I believe theres a comparison with a Giotto here on CS somewhere.
The only reservation is warranty and servicing, as these machines arent well supported here in Aussie land. Correction _ Ive just found that Veneziano/First Pour are now selling them. So I expect good support now exists.
If youre a function over form person, then the NS oscar is worth a look.
If youre going to take any direction in life, dont go backwards and dont go sideways. Go forward in leaps and bounds.
Fifteen hundred, I would venture, is not going to get you much of a satisfying leap.
Two thousand may be also be a little underweight, as sitting atop the real next step are the gleaming HX machines, the likes of Expobar Minore and ECMs Giotto.
That is site sponsor territory.
Or you could try a used commercial machine for up to half that much. But given your frustrations thus far, you may not want to go down that parth, understandably.
Definitely do not go sideways.
well a used commercial isnt out of the question, I would have no problem getting a used one and restoring it. That way I know its fixed!
Function over form? I dont care what the thing looks like as long as it works and I can mainain it without worrying about warranty etc, something that is meant to be backflushed etc etc.
Ive been scouring adds on various online sources and yes the evil one too.
So if anyone knows of someone wanting to sell one pls let me know.
I just want a machine that will do what its sposed to, make coffee and not frustrate me.
22 kilos of coffee here going to waste :(
looks like it has one of those goofy milk steamer attachments?Originally Posted by Sparky link=1185067667/0#2 date=1185068748
Yep, I agree with Robusto..... if you are about to leap make it a worthwhile leap.
There seems to be quite a gap between Silvia like machines and the next rung up the ladder.... in performance - and unfortunately in price.
Do some test driving of the various machines on offer and make sure YOU are happy with the results......
All our tastes in coffee, ideas of what makes a good machine, how much real estate we can allocate to the machine on the benchtop and budgets are different...... and the final decision will always be a bit of a compromise - unless you have unlimited funds..... which most of us dont ::) ::)
* E * X * P * O * B * A * R *
either Office Leva or , for the real bling thing, Minore
Sullo, Im biased, but at least with a commerecial machine of good pedigree you can be reassured it is "built to take it."
Leave it on all day, industrial strength design and parts, made for busy cafes with demanding day/night use....
So, by comparison, sitting in your home its having a leisurely holiday, totally stress-free, prolonging its already-considerable life span, probably by decades.
But theres a fair amount of luck hitting on the right one to come your way. In my case, coupled with "gut feeling" and blind faith.
If you go down that path, its easier if internet information is readily available... and, more importantly, one for which parts are also in ready supply from, say, Coffeeparts.com.au
thats one thing I like about the commercials is the leaving on all day thing so I can just walk up to it and make coffee, not going to the rituals of waiting for warmup, "temp surfing" and other such stuff which at times makes me make a tea.
I think a second hand commercial is looking better then another single unit.
And with the amount of coffee had here it wont go unused thats fr sure.
I just reboxed the witch (silvia) and was asked whats going on, I simply said I want coffee this witch is going for service then being sold so I can get something better.
Only time they drink coffee is when its made witha machine, other wise its tea.
thanks for the advice everyone really appreciate the input.
Hint hint sponsors anyone got a second hand commercial?
No your not Robusto - well not in my eyes ;)Originally Posted by robusto link=1185067667/0#8 date=1185071233
A second hand commercial is definitely a good buy IMHO.....
But this is where compromise needs to be made - big time!
Most will need some work - some will require heaps and you wont know until you can give it a good "check out" -- which is generally not possible with machines on the Bay of Evil :(
Parts are generally readily available and arent that expensive.
Single groups are far more rare - and for this reason attract a premium price.
Two (or more groups) are far more common and dont have the same price premium - but need far more bench real estate.... and generally a special power run (additional expense)...
Once restored to full operating condition they all make great coffee and will last for ever.... its just a matter of getting one which wont need too much work - and fits within any size / power limitations you (or your "other half" ;) ;D ;D) might have.
well if I can get a 2 group on a 10amp power socket that would be good, putting in a plug has been approved by the bro in law but hes a bit hesistant at the plumbing in option...
Ill bring him around :D
Bench space isnt an issue Ill put it in my office if I have to!
Originally Posted by Sullo link=1185067667/0#11 date=1185074218
Most two groups need a 15 Amp run minimum (mine requires 20 Amps) if all heaters are used. There are nearly always 3 heaters on these units (so they can be used on 3 phase power) and you can disconnect one, or generally 2, to reduce its power draw to within the 10 Amps.
The effect of doing this is to increase the heat up time by a factor of 3 - not a concern with a machine which is left on 24/7 - and to increase recovery time (again by a factor of 3) -- the time taken for the boiler to recover after texturing milk for several drinks. This again wouldnt be a concern at home (generally) - but I couldnt live with it as I fairly frequently make 12 - sometimes as many as 20 - milk based drinks in quick succession (wifes friends!!) and I need the quick recovery.
Thats the spirit Sullo.
Unmodified two-groupers will be in excess of 15 amps, but you can most probably disable part of the element to bring them down to use a household power point.
(No discernable difference on my machine)
Plumbing in may not be an option -- some pumps will not self-prime so you have no choice. Doing it is extrememly easy with braided flexible hose in particular. Dont forget the in-line water softener.
I should mention you must be prepared to live with the Klunk of the pressurestat.
Im not entirely sure its something you can swtch off in your mind. But people who live next to railway lines do say they cant hear the train.
The NS OScar has a commercial wand and tip fitted. The ABS plastic body I agree isnt aesthetically pleasing as chrome bling, but have a play around with it and you will be suitably impressed. If youd like to have a play, call us before you come in so we can turn it on and have it ready to go when you come in.Originally Posted by Sullo link=1185067667/0#5 date=1185069436
Sullo, I suggest you go and do a coffee course before you buy anything else. This is the area that biggest improvements will be found, not by upgrading. How many of us have visited friends with lots of blingy machines and had woeful coffee (come to that, in cafes with machines right up to LMs)?
In my experience, the jump in taste from a really good single boiler is not that great (case in point being my Botticelli with PID)- you just have more speed and capability. If you want the hot water outlet, they start being something worth while on a one group commercial- like a 2nd hand Boema 1 gp or similar.
That hot water --read, boiling --- tap certainly is handy. Wouldnt do without it. My wife and daughter use it constantly for soup, tea and chocolate drinks. I use it to blast grounds from the filters and generally underestimate just how hot they are when I pick them up. :oOriginally Posted by telemaster link=1185067667/15#15 date=1185085065
Being superheated water its somewhat violent as it flash boils, but otherwise a very handy feature. 8-)
Originally Posted by telemaster link=1185067667/15#15 date=1185085065
When you think about it.... the criteria for great espresso is stable and correct temperature (which is easily met by a PID single boiler machine), stable brew pressure (which most machines with an OPV also meet) and correct technique and quality fresh beans...
So yes, any quality single boiler machine (given correct technique for that machine) can produce excellent espressos.....
The more expensive machines.... all the way up to Synessos.... can just produce the same excellent espressos - they do it just SOOOOO much faster..... even more so for milk based drinks of course....
BUT without the correct technique they can also produce cr@p coffees at a phenomenal rate as well!!!
However I still think the best espressos Ive ever had were made with a Synesso (and great technique).
Originally Posted by robusto link=1185067667/15#16 date=1185087746
Not on a La Cimbali (and several other machines).... The hot water from the boiler is mixed with cold water in a "economiser" - a temperature regulating valve.... which maintains the water temp at about 96C..... I presume so you dont do yourself a dreadful injury (and dont burn the coffee when making a flat black)....
But it certainly is VERY handy - and gets used all the time here as well.
Yep. Like the heat, dont like the flashdance.
(and the menacing noise)
I cant say which machine has assisted me(!!!) in making the most memorable espresso.
But I suspect I fluked it on the very first shot out of my brand new Silvia. New machine, new grinder, fresh beans from a boutique roastery where I bought her.
Ah, remember it so well. Thick as 90-grade differential oil. Mouthfeel like syrup. Dark as fresh Dextron II automatic transmission fluid...
Dont think Ive ever managed to replicated that obvious fluke.
David - I live in Sydney, but thankyou for the offer :)
Telemaster - although it was a few years ago now, I have done a barista course, was a full day thing. On larger commercial machines I have no problems, its the temp dancing that annoys me, PID is an option but that voids warranty.
Whats frustrating for me is that this machine in the first 3 weeks was a great machine, then the boiler blew and mocopan replaced it no questions asked????
Since its return its gotten worse, its been cleaned albeit without ripping open the boiler to see if theres a dead mouse in there, maybe Ive got a bad machine of the bunch, possible pilot error, I dont know. Either way when you pay 770 for a machine you expect to get some good results for more then 3 weeks first time and 2-3 weeks second time. Yes its not an expobar or the like and I really dont worry about bling, as Ive said I dont care what it looks like, like my avatar says "GIVE ME THE COFFEE" :D
I just want a unit that wont fail which is why Imthinking that a 2nd commercial single group might be a better option. If it break I can get on the tools and repair (being an atm tech comes in handy sometimes)
And being vastly de-caffienated at present doesnt help much, and I cant make "she who has great ideas" her lattes.
Tomorrow Im taking the witch to DiBs and get her looked over, once shes been given the all clear shes up for sale. Wether it be pilot error or machine failure, shes going...
Appreciate the responses and help :)
The frustrated de-caffinated one.
Hi Sullo- its interesting that one reader that I had discussions with about a Botticelli had two problems that lead to bitterness on a Botticelli. Two issues were steaming the milk first (not suggesting you are!) so the boiler suffered from a heat mass problem (didnt want to cool down), the other disappeared when the pressure was adjusted via the OPV.
On the second one, have you noticed youve had to adjust your grind or tamp since the repair?
pour first then milk, and yep had to go finer on rocky
Mmmmm.... sounds like they have played with the OPV and increased the pressure....Originally Posted by Sullo link=1185067667/15#22 date=1185095510
There are instructions (somewhere on this site) to check the pressure by measuring the water returned to the tank. Might be worth a play - if for no reason other than to satisfy your curiosity.
I would but shes in her box next to the front door.
FOR SALE (once DiBs check it over) One slightly used (10 week old) Silvia - New Model!!!
and yes Im serious.
If you feel like unwrapping her..... pressure is tested by putting on a blind filter, and measuring the volume of water returned to the tank in a given period, and comparing result to Uklas volume/pressure graph on its website.
Wouldnt hurt. It has to be unpacked for testing anyway.... :-/
Or is the call from the wild of that commercial 2-group too irrisistible. ;)
thanks for the tip Rob but Ive had enough of the wench!
sooner shes sold the sooner I can get a different machine.
Thats where Robusto and I differ to your view....
We wouldnt let the little miss beat us....
Id have the lid off, screwdriver in hand to beat her into submission.... Just to get the satisfaction of proving who is the master......
No mere machine would be permitted to get the better of me..... no matter how frustrating the attempt - until I had conquered her!
Then she would be out the door....... with a smile on my face as I waved her goodbye ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
any normal day Id be into it with screwdriver sledge dremel can opener leatherman whatever tool was unfortunately got in my way, but I promised she who has great idea and the place i purchased it from that I wouldnt attack it with a screwdriver.
Thumb firmly planted on foehead.
Although she did ask me to attack her kenwood steam iron today :) and was sitting there with me when I was going to comercial machine adds saying can you get that one, is that a good one we could put in the office couldnt we, not once has she said no, apart from returning aformentioned product for evaluation.
But if I still have this machine after warranty...............It would be Silvenstein within hours :D
Better I get her looked at within 90 days of warranty.
Understand two levels of frustration, one - no coffee, two no modifying :(
R.I.P. Miss Silvia, then. Her brief life was cut short and died all too young.
Never did get to be an old grandmother like her sisters.
JavaB is right. I am dogged as they come and Ive forgotten how many
times Ive said "I dont let things beat me".
But I am trying to change, albeit slowly, and put a more appropriate value on my precious time.
Sometimes I envy people like you Sullo who know when to stop and let go.
(But Id still give Silvia another try, and as JavaB said, wave it out the door, a conquered woman).
you have no idea how much i want to pul this thing apart!!!!
its more like i have 2 days left of my four off and I have stuff to do apart from messing with this, then 4 days on and I want my coffee without the frustration, iget frustrated enough at work..
I do want to know what the problem is, Ive HAD to let go.
Maybe its something simple that Im not aware of, but with 22kgs of green sitting here doing nothing, no coffee, Ive had to make some priorty changes.
Whats the latest on Miss Silvia? What was the diagnosis?
Is there hope of a resurrection (all be it at someone elses abode)?
Well Ms Siliva was taken to hospital by ambulance at 930am
(ok so I drove her to DiBs)
she was water tanked and shot
(filled res and a few shots made)
two victims tasted and screwed their faces
(one was mine)
water tank was flushed treated with chemical stuff backflushed and something else then a water filter put on the intake pipe,
shot again, more screwed up faces
few other things done i dont remember as I was building some racks whilst i waited
more screwed up faces
OPV valve was checked at 10 spot on the book recommendation
OPV was addjusted
still screwed up faces
by this stage I had other places to be
very sad face
started drooling over the shiny things that Zot was unpacking from weekend and Ofra was telling me about a few machines, Isomac Zafira looks like a goer
1330 I left her
joyous face (sort of)
return home no machine
sad face due to no coffee making
(face was on she who has great ideas)
1700 called emergency ward -
still in surgury
give you three guesses at the faces
think that about covers it for now
I still hate nescafe and plungers
Sounds like Miss Silvia has some very rare and exotic disease....
Maybe time to call in Dr House ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D (Although Im sure DiB will scare her into submission!)
Will be watching developments with interest.....
How funny would that be to have House doing the differiential diagnostic?
Would that make Ofra Dr Cuddy?
Only 22 kg, eh Sullo. Running low on beans. Yep. Understand. ;D ;DOriginally Posted by Sullo link=1185067667/30#30 date=1185108638
Seriously, though, those symptoms really are strange. :-/ Dying to know the diagnosis, and then, your once and for all prognosis.
That dead mouse must have got in there somehow.
Its a dead something, I remember the days of 90 warranty replacments,
Have to wait for this to be rectified completely so I can move it and get something bigger badder and better
Certainly go tme buggered this one.
Another morning no proper coffee....
Off to the cafe for a macc
I actually miss the little witch :((
Absence makes the palate grow fonder.
Maybe GMC should takeover Rancilio and offer their 2-year no questions asked replacement warranties.
On the other hand, your petrol bill would skyrocket running back to Bunnings for yet another replacement of a dud.
I was wandering around a shopping centre earlier today and came across a em6910, in a moment of almost panic desperation nearly bought it. :o
Went back to cafe where the barista knows me and without a word, a macciato was delivered, :P
he asked you didnt buy another machine yet did you. No I stammered, but it was close.... :-/
Day two Silvia is still a sour lil witch Im told. :( >:(
maybe if it was a 6910 it would be replaced? :-?
Sullo, sounds like you need a support group to follow you around and give you moral support when temptatin strikes -- like that bunch of guys in the nicorette ad.
When the urge for an espresso dims your judgement and you reach for the wallet to buy whatever machine is in sight, remember:
Dont go sideways. dont go backwards, go up young man.
Im sorry *sob* it was really a moment of weakness, or caffienelessness!
She who has good ideas was told about it and said would it work better then that silvia thing? Then god bless her caught her reading commercial machine adds on internet. Ya just cant beat that can ya?
I even had another of those "lil machine that tried" that I killed a week before Silvia, yes oa sunbeam ristretto, then I saw the 6910, its nice lines flashy buttons, nice red colour, got a glimer of hope, then thought...... you idiot
Then went back to cafe... They drowned my sorrows in a macc.
Im using them and cs as a support group.
Flame me now and put me out of my misery.
Even Rocky looks morose sitting there unused unloved grinding nothing, his lil hopper empty of hope, poor lil sod.
This thread probably has more "conquered women" comments than some of us really need or want to read......
Sullo, Im sorry youve had such a tough time with your Silvia. Its rare for someone to buy a "snobs" machine (6910/Silvia or better) and be as disappointed and frustrated as you are. Personally I thought that Telemaster gave you great advice when he suggested an espresso course before doing anything else. Id add to that and make sure that the trainer has used a Silvia (or whatever machine you have). Ive also done my baristas course a few years back, and Ive thought a few times over the last year that there must be something wrong with my Silvia. Everytime it has come back to my technique. I did an espresso course earlier in the year with 2MCM which clarified a lot about the technique needed for each participants machine. In addition he suggested I bend my steam wand by 15 degrees to make frothing easier. Ever since Ive had all sorts of trouble frothing. I spoke to him about upgrading while I was at Aromofest on Sunday and mentioned that his mod hadnt worked. Turns out I didnt hear the final part which was how to position the jug with the steamwand. Chris showed me what he meant, and that problem is now solved. Technique is all important, and will vary from one machine to the next.
If I were you Id be looking at one of De Bartolis espresso courses.
Viv would you prefer I called it a male name?Originally Posted by Viviane link=1185067667/30#42 date=1185288603
Didnt realise that talking about an espresso machine that happens to be advertised with a female sounding name that talking about it negatively was making a "conquering women statment", if this offends you I had no intention and have to say quite surprised by that.
Problems with my machine and technique whilst I agree with your suggestion, I also disagree.
This machine had its boiler replaced at 4 weeks due to failure, then within 2-3 weeks after replacement the next problem developed. Renzo assured me it wasnt my "technique" and on day 2 it was still doing the same thing. Now Im sure Renzo has much more experience in his little finger that I have with smaller machines like this, Im at a loss myself after all thats been done to "the espresso machine" to solve this problem.
I shall endeavour to keep my posts more politically correct then....
goodness...is this thread taking a turn for the worse....
Originally Posted by JavaB link=1185067667/15#27 date=1185102257
Originally Posted by robusto link=1185067667/15#29 date=1185107348
Originally Posted by JavaB link=1185067667/30#33 date=1185179171
Sullo, if youd reread your own thread instead of jumping down my throat you would realise that these were the posts I was referring to, not anything that youve written. I also refer to Silvia as "she" as do many of us. I also treat her with respect and have learned as much as possible about how she works. In return she tries her best to give me the coffee I want. Its a great partnership.
Sullo, drink some instant, plunger, whatever you have in the house to get some caffeine into your system, rather than making snide apologies to an infrequent objection to comments made here. This forum is very much male dominated, and like your Silvia problems its actually very rare for the females to feel the need to complain about the way the men here express themselves. Get over it.
Ah political correctness....
I think we all (males and females) get too easily offended now.... and read things into posts/articles/speeches etc that were not intended....
As you said Silvia is normally referred to as a female, rocky a male.... (and my coffee machine I also refer to as a male!)
I often "personalise" posts (to make the post more interesting)... and if I was talking about a rocky with a problem (or my coffee machine).... Id suggest beating him into submission with a screwdriver as well....
It doesnt mean Im going to attack (or suggest someone else attacks) my 18 year old daughter or my wife wife and beat them into submission (or my son if Im using the male equivalent......) Im talking about an inanimate object.....a coffee machine which most of us give a "human" personality to.....
My comments werent meant to be sexist and if you take them that way, them I appologise..... But I think we all need to chill out on political correctness.... or soon we wont be able to say anything.... as it may offend someone.... somewhere.....
Ill now crawl back down my "personhole" and disappear!
Sorry Viv, didnt see any direction in the post wasnt jumping down your throat.
I apologuise to you on behalf of this thread then.
Ive been enjoying this thread its been giving me a good old giggle.
I must say though Sullo you must be so frustrated. I would have thought a machine so young would have more of a warranty behind it. I would be devastated after spending that much and now losing her. I can see though why you wouldnt want her back. It does sound like you got a dodgy machine unfortunately!
Good luck with your quest for a new machine :)
Sullo and Sue,Originally Posted by Sueb link=1185067667/45#48 date=1185319745
There is a warranty supplied by Rancilio on all product.
As I understand, our consumer rights allow us to return a product deemed not to to be of merchantable quality for the customers choice of refund in full or brand new replacement.
I guess the issue here is merchantable quality. As others have suggested, the machine could be placed in the hands of a "specialist silvia shot puller"....This approach should provide an answer...
I am sure that the supplier wishes to resolve the issue as well...