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Thread: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

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    EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi fellow Coffee Snobs,

    After reading many posts on these forums I finally decided to take the plunge (if youll pardon the pun) and become a CS member. Id first like to say a quick thankyou to all those of you contributing to posts on the EM6900/EM6910 and the EM0480. Your tips and suggestions have aided me to make some great advancements in the caliber of espresso coffee being produced from my home machine over the last few weeks.

    I am hoping to call on your knowledge and expertise again to help me diagnose a problem with my EM6910. Ive had it for just over 12 months now and I am noticing that whenever I manage to achieve critical mass with the pressure of my espresso pour, the machine seems to start leaking around the group handle. I know that there could be several reasons for this such as the basket being too full, grind being too fine, handle not tight enough, worn seal etc, however I am wanting to know if anyone has any really good tips for definitively diagnosing the problem?

    Appreciate any suggestions and assistance you can provide.
    Regards,
    Cameron

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    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Welcome to CS (first time Ive said that - I almost feel like an oldie!) 8-)

    My (not so experienced) advice would be to problem solve by taking one thing away at a time. If you tighten the handle a bit more and it stops, that is what your problem is, if you dose your portafilter a little less and it stops, that is what your problem is, etc.

    Ive had this a number of times, at all the above times at one stage or another (ie; overdosing, not tightening enough, etc) and it was usually user error.

    Or it could be that your seal in the group head is on the way out and might need replacing. They (the good sorts on this site) recommend that you dont leave the portafilter locked in for extended periods (Ive taken to removing mine overnight once Ive made my last coffee at about 6.00pm and given it a thorough clean), and then left it out until I go to make my morning coffee at which stage I plonk it in when I first switch on the machine so it has time to warm the portafilter when I go to make my work takeaway). I also get into the seal area when Im doing my thorough clean each night and brush away all the lose grounds around the seal with a soft paint brush.

    Hope this helps.

    Cheers
    Di

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Hi

    In the first instance;

    If you tighten the handle a bit more and it stops, that is what your problem is, if you dose your portafilter a little less and it stops, that is what your problem is, etc.
    Is a reasonable attack...

    However regardless of use; or as you state "it is now happening at what you call critical MASS" *the fact that your unit is 12mts old...

    It is SCREAMING out for a NEW group head seal.... *Until you replace the seal, some of the other issues such as a worn collar can not be determined.



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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    I must admit I was a little concerned that the seal might have been on its way out, but I am not sure how to determine the wear? It doesnt look in bad shape so was not confident that it was at fault. Should I be on the lookout for any signs in particular to indicate the degree of wear, or is it just a given that 12 months = replacement group head seal?

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Quote Originally Posted by cammcgrath link=1224052041/0#3 date=1224056889
    I must admit I was a little concerned that the seal might have been on its way out, but I am not sure how to determine the wear? It doesnt look in bad shape so was not confident that it was at fault. Should I be on the lookout for any signs in particular to indicate the degree of wear, or is it just a given that 12 months = replacement group head seal?
    Looks can be deceiving... In many cases the seal becomes a little harder and or is compressed over time...

    Thus if you leave the PF locked in place it will hasten the demise of the seal or if you do not take care when cleaning or it is subject to heavy use these all have an impact.

    12 months OLD... REPLACE the seal. In the mean time, just dont push the system to its critical mass. A slpit seal or other mishap will leave you with a mess.

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    I use a 6910 at work and it gets a lot of use.

    Without knowing how many coffees you make each day I cant compare but would suggest that after 12 months its probably the seal.

    AM is right in that they dont seem to look worn (at a glance).

    The work machine is just on 10 months old and I out its 2nd replacement seal in it last week.
    Admittedly the previous one died prematurely, a chunk came out of it.

    The work machine does about a dozen a day at a guess; I met a new guy today who does overnight shifts and he was asking about it. So there may be a few more coffees made between midnight and dawn that I havent accounted for.

    When you get your replacement seal get the silicon spacer to go with it while youre at it.
    If the collar is also worn the spacer will help in the short term.

    Ring Sunbeam and ask their opinion.
    If youre lucky theyll send you a seal for free.
    Try work the spacer into the conversation; say youve got a friend with the same machine and he needed the spacer too.

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Thanks AngerManagement. Ill get a new seal and take it from there.

    Thanks also Di for your feedback. Hopefully a new seal will sort my leak issues, but if its still happening Ill attack it with your suggestions too.

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    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Mr Hoyks here,

    She doesnt trust me to pull the machine apart right now :(, but you might try removing the seal, turning it upside down and re-installing it. I dont know if it is symmetrical or not, but if it is, it should give a new face for the head to seat against.

    Might get you out of trouble until you can get a new sealů..or might be absolutely no help at all ;).

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    It only works one way.
    You cant turn it upside down.

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Thundergod, this may sound like a stupid question, but can you describe to me the silicon spacer versus the group head seal? I might be thinking of completely the wrong thing (hence my mentioning that I cant see anything wrong with the seal). On my machine, Im talking about a thick blue rubber ring that can be removed once the shower screen is removed. Is this the seal or the spacer?

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Quote Originally Posted by cammcgrath link=1224052041/0#9 date=1224071318
    Thundergod, this may sound like a stupid question, but can you describe to me the silicon spacer versus the group head seal? I might be thinking of completely the wrong thing (hence my mentioning that I cant see anything wrong with the seal). On my machine, Im talking about a thick blue rubber ring that can be removed once the shower screen is removed. Is this the seal or the spacer?
    The seal is usualy blue and molded to suit the shower screen etc. The spacer is *the same size in Diameter ( internal and external) but only about .05mm thick *and is put on top of the seal..

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Thanks very much. Will give Sunbeam a call and see how we go.

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyks link=1224052041/0#7 date=1224070356
    Mr Hoyks here,

    She doesnt trust me to pull the machine apart right now :(, but you might try removing the seal, turning it upside down and re-installing it. I dont know if it is symmetrical or not, but if it is, it should give a new face for the head to seat against.

    Might get you out of trouble until you can get a new sealů..or might be absolutely no help at all ;).
    Mr Hoyks... * ;) *I am starting to understand why Mrs Hoyks may have issues with your assistance *;D

    In addition to not being symmetrical as it gets old it hardens and I can assure you.... *You do not want a full PF under pressure to unwind or to have the seal blow... *Very messy... :-[

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour


    I find that if I over dose, or the grind is too fine (needle in the red zone) or both, it tends to leak.

    I also find that if theres lots of old grind trapped at the seal, it causes leaks, but this is true of the Vibiemme commercial 3 group head machine that I used to make coffees with.

    So these days, after a coffee is made, I pop in the silicon insert into the filter basket and loosely fit the porta filter to the group head and run a pour. I wriggle the PF gently from side to side and the rising water inside the basket pushes out all the loose grind that is trapped at the seal.

    I inspect and repeat the steps to ensure that no grind is trapped in the groupseal.

    Seems to work all the time and my seal is still pretty good after 12 months.

    :)


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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Here is a recent link detailing my experience with the group seal.

    I doubt if Sunbeam will be interested in repaling it under warranty.

    My old seal was only 5 months old so it is likely that is your problem.

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1223723901

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Just an update on my new group seal.

    It engaged fine in the grouphead with the pf handle at the 6 oclock position. However a tiny leak was still evident, dripping some water into my cups. I gave it a week to see if the new seal would bed in but the problem remained.

    Took out the seal and inspected it, no splits evident. Reassembled it and still a few drops would leak when brewing. I then ran a wet finger over the filter basket rim immediately prior to engagaing the pf. Problem solved, no leaks.

    My theory is the moisture helps to prevent minor distortion of the seal when it is engaged.

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Hi all,

    Ive just experienced the same leaking issue with my machine, its only 4 months old and is going back under warranty. (Luckily)

    Unluckily - were moving back to the UK next year, and as such wont be in the Sunbeam Australasia area for parts!

    Im worried that come the next repair time (or next 12 month seal renewal)
    Ill be stuck with a dead machine :(

    My question is - does anyone know if you can buy 3rd party seals from other vendors that matches the EM6910 and could even give a better quality/life rating?

    Thanks for any feedback!

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Hi redwildgeeza,


    I dont know the answer to your question, but you might want to consider selling the machine off once repaired and buying something in the UK.

    For one, youll need to lug it there (or pay for it to be lugged). And if you run in to any issues once its there, repairing it might be costly/troublesome.

    Just a thought.

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Hhhmmm,., we would,. but weve got (and love) the whole matching Sunbeam Cafe range.

    Lugging is not a problem as the whole house is shipping off in a container to the UK. So an espresso machine isnt gonna make a huge difference. ;D

    Thanks for the selling advice, but Ill keep my fingers crossed for a seal solution.

    Ive emailed Sunbeam to see if theyd ship to the UK should I have any issues. Will let you know their response if/when I get it.



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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Why not buy 2 or 3 seals before you leave? Worst case scenario, you will have $50 worth of spare parts sitting in the drawer, doing nothing.

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    You wont be able to get 3rd party seals.

    I dont know how well they keep though.

    I kept the first one on my desk for a few weeks after I changed it thinking it might come in handy in an emergency if by chance it expanded a bit (having been compresed over time until it needed replacing).

    Well I looked at it to put it away in my drawer with other spares for the machine and it had gone all sticky.

    How many coffees a week do you make with it red?

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Quote Originally Posted by redwildgeeza link=1224052041/0#18 date=1226984994
    Hhhmmm,., we would,. but weve got (and love) the whole matching Sunbeam Cafe range.

    Lugging is not a problem as the whole house is shipping off in a container to the UK. So an espresso machine isnt gonna make a huge difference. * ;D

    Thanks for the selling advice, but Ill keep my fingers crossed for a seal solution.

    Ive emailed Sunbeam to see if theyd ship to the UK should I have any issues. Will let you know their response if/when I get it.

    Just because you go to the UK..... *Does not mean someone here can not purchase and send over for you... *That is of course dependant on if you can still get access to CS... *

    If it is just a post, then simple.. Just ask and a PM to confirm... Should be fine... Pay Pal is great.

    New ones might keep for a while, but they can get lost...



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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    AngerManagement - thanks! That sounds like a good idea. Theres no problems with me continuing contact through CS and I have a PayPal account, so that could work out great!

    I may buy a seal before we go, and see if theres some kind of airtight container we could try to store them in. Im surprised at the "sticky" situation, as the seal in the unit is in contact with the air(?) Or is the rear mounting point slightly adhesive for installation? (Obv. Not tried installing one yet.)

    Thundergod - Ive turned into a real coffee-holic with the 6910, its my first espresso machine, and as I say have the matching grinder (which works nice on about 16 for our tastes). Im usually pouring about 3 or 4 coffees a day, during the working week. This will probably reduce when in the UK, because Im lucky to be working from home at the moment.

    Were taking the machine back to the store today, and the wife will be having "words" - so Im sure shell get us a replacement rather than a repair since its so close to Christmas and the move. Fingers-crossed - else Im out of coffee for the next few weeks!

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    I asked about usage to figure out how long the machine will last.
    Barring a computer problem Id guess wear and tear wont be an issue for a few years, other than the seal.

    I dont know what caused the stickiness.
    It was a new type, blue seal; they are made of different material to the old black ones the 6900s had.
    Ive got one of those on my desk right now with no stickiness to it.

    Theres no adhesive on the blue seals.

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Not a question about the EM6910 but a general one I have after reading this thread.

    My Cafe Roma is about 4 years old, and Ive never had problems with leakage unless I used too fine a grind.

    But this thread suggests that a replacement seal should be done after 12 months - is that just on this Sunbeam model or on "all" machines?

    A little confused but I took interest because I was considering a 2nd hand EM6910.

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Depends on usage.
    Some recommend 6 monthly.

    If you turn the machine on and off a lot the seal deteriates quicker.

    I recommend you DO NOT get a 2nd hand 6910.
    Ive posted my reasons why many times; do a search if you weant more detail.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1224052041/20#25 date=1227055700

    I recommend you DO NOT get a 2nd hand 6910.
    Ive posted my reasons why many times; do a search if you weant more detail.
    So are you saying that if someone were to upgrade from the sunbeam, then the sunbeam becomes worthless?


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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadnz link=1224052041/20#24 date=1227053787
    But this thread suggests that a replacement seal should be done after 12 months - is that just on this Sunbeam model or on "all" machines?
    My Krups has the original silicon seal and after 12 years of continuous use (2-3 coffees per day) I have not experienced any leaks. The seal is very discoloured, but there are no cracks or tears.

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1224052041/20#26 date=1227057344
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1224052041/20#25 date=1227055700

    I recommend you DO NOT get a 2nd hand 6910.
    Ive posted my reasons why many times; do a search if you weant more detail.
    So are you saying that if someone were to upgrade from the sunbeam, then the sunbeam becomes worthless? *
    I didnt want to repeat it all again but seeing as you asked nicely....

    The 6910 is OK until it breaks down.
    Depending on how much you use it that might be sooner than later.
    After the 12 month warranty period has expired (unless its the pump which is covered for 5 years) I wouldnt be spending money on getting it fixed.

    Upgrading from a working 6910 would seem a remote possibility to me.

    Do you know of someone here thats done it?
    Ozscott might have IIRC.
    Maybe he can tell us what happened to his one.
    Anyone else?

    I think the more likely scenario is that the 6910 has carked it so one then decides to buy a machine not another appliance.
    In that case, yes, it is worthless.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1224052041/20#28 date=1227061457

    Upgrading from a working 6910 would seem a remote possibility to me.
    Yep, 2 customers (both CSers) in the last month have upgraded from working SBs to Giottos. ;)



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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    I suppose then if that trend continues there will be less sales of new 6910s.

    What are they doing with theirs?

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour


    Price of Giottos?

    The EM6910 price was a selling point here in NZ. $799NZD - but got ours on sale for $599NZD - wondering if that price tag is pointing at Smith Citys thought of clearing them out of stock (?)....

    Shame the seal is the machines "Achilles" ankle - and a shame you cant get 3rd party seals. Else I wouldnt start having thoughts of swapping now!

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1224052041/20#29 date=1227061945

    Yep, 2 customers (both CSers) in the last month have upgraded from working SBs to Giottos. *;)

    Make that three - if you also count coffee customers!

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1224052041/20#25 date=1227055700
    Depends on usage.
    Some recommend 6 monthly.

    If you turn the machine on and off a lot the seal deteriates quicker.
    Thunder - does this advice refer to the Sunbeam only or "all" espresso machines? Should I be replacing a seal on my Cafe Roma regularly?

  35. #35
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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    The information was given to me by Coffee Parts.
    So from that Id say all.

    At the time Id just changed from leaving my machine on 24/7 to turning it off and on.
    That seal lasted 9 months, which fitted nicely with what I was told.

    I dont change every 6 months because it takes 5 minutes and I make sure I have a spare seal so I dont get caught short.

  36. #36
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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    As the group seal wears out, the PF needs to be turned further to the right to firmly contact the seal - IMO this is likely to accelerate the group collar wearing issues with the EM6910, which is one of the major reliability issues with that machine. The cost of a seal each six months is negligible compared to the cost of having the group collar replaced - so Ill continue replacing mine each six months just in case ;)

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Wow this is news to me, and Ive had my Roma for 4 years (I think).

    If I upgrade, say to a Silvia, is this again something I should do every 6 months? The cost of correct upkeep just gets higher and higher the more I learn!

    I seem to have had no problems with the Roma?

  38. #38
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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Quote Originally Posted by ahmadnz link=1224052041/20#36 date=1227152104
    The cost of correct upkeep just gets higher and higher the more I learn!
    A seal for my machine costs less than $5.

  39. #39
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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    Mine too. (Funny that! Being another Expobar.)
    I find the maintenance costs are pretty good actually. My problem is when Im on the coffeeparts website selecting my Group Seal ($4.75) and my Shim ($1.45), somehow I end up with a whole bunch of other goodies in my shopping basket.

    Damn shiny things!

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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    doH! *I feel like such a numpty! Just got the 6910 back from an inspection / warranty service and it looks as though my water leak issue was over-ground coffee!

    Bit annoying really as it seems to be changing beans - means you need to keep an eye on the grind level. Is this the case? *Are people finding different grinds are needed if they change coffees? *I even tried the same coffee when I initially had the machine working correctly...

    I initially set the grind to 15/16, but the last bag of beans (Gravity Coffee) seems to be softer, and I never compensated this during the grinding. Did a courser grind, and hey pretso, alls well again! No pressure issue (though there was still a small movement to the left of the group handle)

    Its not all bad though... the machine is a lot quieter after the service. Seems like theyve tightened a few nuts and bolts. *Initially the machine sounded very "raw" and rattle-y compared to the instruction DVD.

    And Ive also got a direct contact for service parts. So Ill be picking up 3 or 4 seals for just in case scenarios when Im back in the UK!

    Will keep you posted on the coffees over the next few days, as to if it occurs again.

  41. #41
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    Re: EM6910 Leak Issue During Espresso Pour

    You will need to adjust the grind almost constantly. There are many, many variables. Coffee beans, roast, age, humidity on the day and so it goes on and on. The grind is the one and only variable that you can change with any degree of control, to compensate for everything else.



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