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Thread: Why are Silvias Better???

  1. #1
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Why are Silvias Better???

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Okay, so Im going to start probably a slightly contraversial thread here, but it will make a change from just berating people about supermarket beans, grind, etc.

    Im confused as to why people come down on the EM6910 as being an appliance (which I find a tad insulting but live with) and recommend the Silvia over the 6910.

    From what I can see and read, to get a decent Silvia, you have to fiddle around a lot with temp surfing, waiting for the boiler to heat up, etc. *In order to minimise all this, you need to buy a PID kit, which then makes the machine about 2.5 times more expensive than the 6910 and you might as well spend the money on a higher end machine, to my way of thinking.

    And they seem to have their fair share of problems, too, reading all the below posts about cracked this that and the other, needing to adjust pressure, problems with the heater, etc.

    Whereas yes, the 6910 has its problems also but most people can find a relatively local Sunbeam Service Centre to fix their machine in short enough timeframe (or, if no local Service Centre, then SB will pick up and deliver your machine at no cost), the call centre staff are usually over-the-top helpful and provided you care for your machine, the seals and other replaceable parts last a reasonable amount of time and are fairly easily replaceable for most owners.

    The SB also has the advantage of not waiting for long periods of time for it to heat up, its relatively easy to use, and you can steam milk at the same time as you pull your shot.

    Warning: *Girly remark here - Its also a lot more attractive looking on the bench top than the very utilitarian looking Silvia. ;)

    About the only thing that the Silvia *might* have over the 6910 is the lifespan of the machine but judging on most owners, everyone gives in to upgraditis after a while so, okay the 6910 might die after a couple of years but at least you then have an excuse to buy a bigger & better model and dont have to justify trading in a perfectly good working machine to your spouse!

    I guess Im sending out a challenge here to all owners/sellers of the Silvia - apart from lifespan of the machine, what do you see in the Silvia that I dont?

    Cheers
    Di

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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Hoyks I dont own a Silvia but have used a 6910 and 6900 at work for the last 18 months.

    In the first year of the 6910s life it went through 3 seals and I recently had the collar replaced.
    While that was being done the agent noticed and replaced a circuit board that had a burn mark on it (that explained the earlier smell).

    The reason I bought what I did was for longevity and long term savings.
    My Expobar is still a little fiddly in that it needs a quick flush if left idle for a while but thats a minor inconvenience.
    I prefer function over form.
    The Silvia may not be as pretty as the 6910 but have you seen the feet on my Expobar?

    Although the 6910 can steam and pull shots at the same time, the steam pump/thermoblock arrangement is not in the same ballpark as my machine.

    I know the Silvias need to switch between shots and steaming and cant do too many milk based coffees at a time but youll have to wait for a Silvia owner to comment on the steam power.

    If you are only doing no more than 4 at a time I think youll get an argument.

    The last seal I got for the 6910 I had to pay for (I must be losing my touch).
    It and a spacer cost me $25 from the local Sunbeam agent.

    Seals for my Expobar cost less than $5.

    Im up to my third tamper for the Sunbeam as the metal bit comes off (its only glued on).

    If Id had to pay for it (it was a free replacement for the 6900) Id not be happy.

    I have no problem recommending the 6910, providing you are aware of their shortcomings and potential short lifetime. To me theyre a good first machine to learn on.
    Barring anything major going wrong, by my observations they should last 5 years at home.
    An acceptable overall cost when you add in the free course and excellent customer service (read free parts).

    Enjoy it and learn.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Hi Di,

    Ill contribute to any controversy...

    Apart from longevity, the Silvia has the *potential* to pour a better espresso than the SB.

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    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Woooo - them thars fightin words, pardner!!! ;D

    Happy to be a taste-tester in any competition between owners that want to stand up to the challenge! ;)

    (Id offer, but clearly lose due to my still inexperienced technique...)

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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Silvia has a boiler instead of a thermoblock, so should produce drier steam for producing better microfoam.

    Silvia doesnt sound like a jackhammer.

    Silvia has better build quality.

    Silvia is made in Italy by a manufacturer of commercial espresso machines. 6910 is made by a toaster manufacturer in, ummm where? China?


    and borrowing from Greg Pullmans review of both machines:

    6910 has poorer steam volume,

    poorer resale value,

    poorer temperature stability

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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Great topic Hoyks.

    On the longevity issue, I dont think anyone can argue the Sunbeam is built to last as long as the Silvia. The use of brass in key areas gives the Silvia the edge. The element may go in a Silvia if the boiler is allowed to repeatedly run dry - but with care the owner can ensure this doesnt happen. I guess this is the corollary to the appliance argument - the Silvia isnt an appliance, Rancilio have built a tool that requires some care to use properly. But if used properly, it should last years. I get them in for service after years in the "field". Throw a group seal at them, o-rings for the steam valve and send em back out.

    I think a lot of the chat around temp surfing and pressure adjusting etc is a natural result of the quest for ever better results. But is the analysis carried out all the way to the cup or even to the coffee puck? In other words, how mcuch does it matter that the Silvias boiler temp swings? Bring on the blind head-to-head taste tests!

    Leaving all of the temperature probes aside, Ive rarely had a bad shot out of a bog standard Silvia (and most of the bad ones are barista related *::) It doesnt hurt that there is a sizeable amount of brass in the group head and portafilter ...

    On the issue of aesthetics ... I guess Im biased. I look past those square sides to the beauty underneath *;) But Im not going argue with you - the Silvia looks like its built for business.

    Having used a bog standard Silvia and a PIDed Silvia, I was surprised to find that the biggest difference for me, was the constant steam pressure with the PIDed Silvia. A PIDed Silvia has its place, but most entry level users are well served by a standard Silvia.

    charlie

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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    having owned a silvia until recently I thought i might put my 2 c in.
    Silvia is a great machine if you have the time to perfect your process,
    i got some god shots with fresh personally roasted peru segunda natural
    beans, but with silvia it can be hit & miss a lot of variables,beans ,grind water quality temp surfing ,humidity consistant tamp pressure all of which if you are strapped for time can become a chore i always enjoyed the process but sometimes frustrated with less than acceptable results(probably more my lack of skill)but as a tradesman i appreciated the metal components over plastic & that is the primary reason i chose the silvia over the 6910
    having said all that I now own a super auto gaggia titanium which has a plastic brew group & 2 s/s lined thermoblocks
    But in the end if you are happy with the end product
    who cares what machine you have?
    I have a friend who makes good milk coffees with a sunbeam intuitive digital auto machine
    consistantly!

    sorry about the rant * ;)

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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    The sunbeams that I used a few years ago all produced sour shots. *Didnt try out the steaming. I havent had a look at the 6910 recently; it may well be that this problem has now been fixed. *

    Sunbeam seem to have put a lot of work into their machines and are great supporters of the Australian specialty coffee industry in general. *If I were in the market for a machine at this price point, I would certainly look at the 6910 and I suspect that I would probably prefer it to the Silvia, which I owned for a few years. *

    I suspect that the 6910 probably has the silvia well and truly beat if its main task will be making one milk-based drink at a time. *Frankly, if you are buying a machine at this price range, I dont think that you should get your hopes up too high when it comes to producing espresso. *I do know one guy who sold his HX machine to buy a 6910 and has it paired with a mini-E.

    One thing that I felt thoroughly duped about when I bought my silvia is that the word "commercial" was thrown around a lot, especially in relation to the group head. *OK, so the group head might be used in commercial machines, but those machines are particularly crappy and it wouldnt surprise me if the group is a big reason for that. *(Thats not to say that the sunbeam group is better - I dont know that; just wanted to make the point that the silvias "commercial" pedigree is hardly a big point in its favour.)

    Okay, so Im going to start probably a slightly contraversial thread here, but it will make a change from just berating people about supermarket beans, grind, etc.
    Hahaha ... thats quite funny. *You forgot to mention maintaining the fiction that all expensive machines are good in their own special way and some are, for some reason, better suited to some people than others.

    Im confused as to why people come down on the EM6910 as being an appliance (which I find a tad insulting but live with) and recommend the Silvia over the 6910.
    I dont understand whats insulting about the 6910 being an appliance. *From dictionary.com, an appliance is "a piece of equipment, usually operated electrically, esp. for use in the home or for performance of domestic chores, as a refrigerator, washing machine, or toaster." *Seems to me like that definition of appliance is exactly what you want. *Maybe a three group machine isnt an appliance, but, then again, I wouldnt really want a three group machine at home. *At any rate, I cant see how the Silvia isnt an appliance.

    Im up to my third tamper for the Sunbeam as the metal bit comes off (its only glued on).

    If Id had to pay for it (it was a free replacement for the 6900) Id not be happy.
    I cant see how this is really all that relevant to the topic, which is a comparison of the silvia with the 6910, but if it is relevant, it strikes me that this is a point in favour of the 6910 and not against it, as you seem to imply. *The reason for this is because the thread is about making comparisons. *If you compare the 6910s tamper to the tamper included with the silvia - or, indeed, with your expobar - the 6910 comes out leagues ahead ... even without the metal bit attached to it!

    The last seal I got for the 6910 I had to pay for (I must be losing my touch).
    It and a spacer cost me $25 from the local Sunbeam agent.
    The equivalent consideration for a silvia would be the cost of rebuilding the steam tap. *IMHO, the silvia doesnt get anywhere near enough flak for the crappy steam valve, which, from the posts that I have read, seems to start to drip pretty commonly.

    I think that Chris saying is particularly apposite in this scenario: pick the box of compromises that you like the best. *If you want a box of junk that (from what I have read) is easy to use, but (also from what I have read) wont last all that long, get the 6910. *If you want a box of junk that is a pain in the neck to use, but just wont die, get the silvia.

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Luca I was pointing out some negatives of owning the 6910.
    Good point regarding comparisons of tampers though.
    When the bottom hasnt fallen off, the Sunbeam one is the best included tamper Ive seen (but ONLY if the metal bit is still attached *;) *).

    And by the way my second point was comparing the cost of group seals. :P


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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    BOTTOM LINE.

    Who delivers a better shot for under $1000.00




    :)


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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quote Originally Posted by pravspresso link=1230618138/0#9 date=1230658198
    BOTTOM LINE.

    Who delivers a *better shot for under $1000.00
    I will deliver a shot to you for half that! Is that to go, or to drink here? ::)

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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    One thing I have noticed with my em6910 is that dose and Tamp is very critical to getting a good shot. The double basket holds about 23gms of coffee the Sivias holds about 14gms.
    With the sunbeam you need to get the coffee onced tamped to about 3mm of the lip of the filter basket or the shot is just muck, the silvia does not suffer this problem.

    Have a look at this link to Alan Frews site I know many people here probably have already seen this but I thought it was relavent to the topic
    http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/sunbeam.html

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    A_M
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quote Originally Posted by pravspresso link=1230618138/0#9 date=1230658198
    BOTTOM LINE.

    Who delivers a *better shot for under $1000.00

    :)
    I guess your not including the grinder in that ???

    At the end of the day it an Apple and an Orange and thus you can not compare!!!

    1: $ difference is that one is approx 25% 35% more
    2: One is a boiler and one is thermoblock
    3: etc etc.

    Every machine regardless of price has its pros and cons and there are often perceptions due to the end users requirements and or habits.

    Its like comparing a Base model Ford with a base model Holden CRV.. It does not compute.

    For under $750 including a grinder, the EM6910 is a great appliance ( :-) ) and would exceed the requirements of most homes, where the majority of drinks are milk based and the users are not pure perfectionists.

    It does not mean that it is better or worse than the Silvia, only that it focuses on a different market base.

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quote Originally Posted by AngerManagement link=1230618138/0#12 date=1230685260

    For under $750 including a grinder, *the EM6910 is a great appliance ( :-) ) and would exceed the requirements of most homes, where the majority of drinks are milk based and the users are not pure perfectionists.
    And if I had $750 to outlay on a new setup the Lelit Combi would easily be my choice over the sunbeam. But thats another story.



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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyks link=1230618138/0#0 date=1230618138

    About the only thing that the Silvia *might* have over the 6910 is the lifespan of the machine but judging on most owners, everyone gives in to upgraditis after a while so, okay the 6910 might die after a couple of years but at least you then have an excuse to buy a bigger & better model and dont have to justify trading in a perfectly good working machine to your spouse!
    Gday Di, the difference is that after a couple of years when "upgraditis" hits you sell the Silvia on ebay or similar for a respectable price and put that money towards your new machine/grinder. On the other hand you take your Sunbeam down to the tip and remind yourself never to buy crap in the future! Sorry to the Sunbeam owners here, as I know thats a bit harsh, but there is no comparing the build quality. Its like comparing a Hyundai to a Alfa Romeo, in the city both cars will get you from point A to point B in precisely the same amount of time but which would you prefer to be in? Just like the Alfa, the Silvia has "peculiarities" that will either drive you insane or youll just accept are the Italian way :) A bit like the dribbling steam wand, it reminds you its Italian! As Charlie said, most of the "problems" with Silvia are people trying to push the envelope with the machine and get even better results, whereas the Sunbeam problems tend to be closer to "problems" in the true sense of the word.

    Pete

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    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    //semi-hijack thread

    I watched an episode of Top Gear the other day when the three boys had to go from the bottom end of Vietnam to the top end on motorbikes - you can imagine, if you watch the show, that Jeremy was not pleased! - and Jeremy bought a Vespa to ride, one of the others had a Honda Postie Bike and one had a non-descript asian bike.

    The Vespa broke down every 5 minutes or so, whereas the Honda just kept on battling on...

    //end of semi-hijack thread

    Sometimes the Italians dont necessarily produce the better appliances over China!!!

    Okay, really bad comparison, but best I could come up with!

    ;D

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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyks link=1230618138/0#15 date=1230788327
    Sometimes the Italians dont necessarily produce the better appliances over China!!!
    ... and sometimes they do. And Id reckon an espresso from a Honda would be just as ordinary, nice try though *;)

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    TC
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    Re: Why are Silvias better???

    I doubt it....for a start, the manuals would be full of misplaced apostrophes and other typos and grammatical errors enough to make them unreadable- as theyd attempt to copy the Italian manuals ::)

    You need only look at their (frequently spammed to CSer members) tampers and present machinery efforts to get an idea of why mass produced stuff produced on a shoe string budget generally fails to meet our expectations ;)

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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    To a certain extent (at least in NZ) I would disagree with the "value" of 2nd hand machines.

    There are currently several used Sunbeams on trademe, with a 6900 currently at around $400 and have seen the 6910s for around $450 / $500 or so. Ofcourse, you have to wonder why the sellar is selling (the old "dont use it much anymore" excuse - yeah right)

    There is approx a $500 or so price gap between the Silvia and the 6910 (6910s commonly go for around $650 and the Silvias seem to be $1150).

    In regards to reliability issues - "touch wood" I have not had any problems from my Sunbeam, not that it gets a particularly hard time, but I do regularly clean it, have cleaned behind the shower screen and have descaled it (once).

    I may have unreasonable expectations from my "appliance" in that I would expect at least 2 to 3 years of trouble free operation. If I do get troubles, then our NZ legislation would certainly (hopefully) support any out of warranty claims.

    As for the Alfa (Acceptable Looking (but) F***d Automible) / Fiat (Fix It Again Tomorrow) vs Hyundai - my wifes Hyundai is now 10 years old and so far, apart from (irregular) servicing has not had a single mechanical issue, how many Fiata / Alfas could boast such a record? ;)

    Sen

    mod edit- original and this post topic edited in an (most likely futile) attempt to prevent the population explosion of apostrophes ;)

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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Wouldnt bother me in the slightest Senator... Id have an old Alfa in fair condition every day of the week over any of the alternatives mentioned. I also love many Italian manufactured motor cycles too; sure, some of the detail may leave a little to be desired but nothing that cant be easily overcome by most biker/tinkerers.

    Same with any decent Italian coffee hardware... Some attention to detail may be lacking but when taking the whole machine into consideration, they are very well engineered, competently manufactured and just exude the sort of passion for design that Italians are famous for. I guess it is something that just "clicks" for you or it doesnt..... :)

    Mal.

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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    The statement was, which would you rather be in *;)

    This topic comes up again and again, both on the internet and in general conversation (not restricted in any way to our particular area of interest) where somebody buys a cheaper version of a product and then tries to justify the decision in their own minds that its "just as good as xxxx". Often this is accompanied by a broad brushed attempt to drag the superior product down with generally baseless rumours intended to make themselves feel better. Well sorry, what youve bought is not as high quality, so get over it.

    Conversely somebody who buys a "premium" product will over-inflate the build quality etc to justify the premium price they just paid. Often this is accompanied with a "holier than thou" attitude with little or no evidence that the product is actually superior performing in the areas claimed. Well sorry its not THAT much better, so get over it.

    Sen, how many 10 year old Alfas can claim that record? Well mine for one! As did my previos 20 year old BMW!! Indeed I understand the old Beemer still going strong long after its contemporary cheap Asian "competitors" have been turned back into the coke cans from whence they came!!

    However thats somewhat off topic, though there are strong parallels in a way. Basically the Sunbeam sells "features", the Rancilio sells "quality" (ie build quality). New, side by side one is probably no "better" than the other as each is simply different. From a commercial engineering perspective, the Sunbeam is arguably "better" engineered as it meets is design specifications much closer than the Rancilio. Conversely the Silvia is "over-engineered", hence for the same price can offer less features. If you want "features" buy the Sunbeam and be prepared to have it as landfill in 5 years time. If you want a machine to pass on to your children but cant do half the things the Sunbeam can, buy the Silvia.

    Finally, Sen, people DO still upgrade from either machine, and there can be quite good machines available but of course dont assume they will be good.

    Pete


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    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Okay, next: everyone head over to the Roasters area for the topic Ill start called...

    "Why My 99 Cent WhirleyGig Jr is a Better Roaster than the HotTop".

    Just kidding... [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=grin.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

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    A_M
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyks link=1230618138/20#21 date=1230796803
    Okay, next: everyone head over to the Roasters area for the topic Ill start called...

    "Why My 99 Cent WhirleyGig Jr is a Better Roaster than the HotTop".

    Just kidding... *[smiley=evil.gif] *[smiley=grin.gif] [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]
    giggled like a schoolgirl Well said Hoyks ;)

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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    And by the way my second point was comparing the cost of group seals. *:P
    Hahaha ... yes, youve got me there. *The sunbeam group seal certainly seems to be more expensive than it ought to be. *But I still think that would-be buyers should take into account the costs of remedying the dreaded drip!

    At the end of the day *it an Apple and an Orange and thus you can not compare!!!
    Of course you can compare. *You can compare their suitability for various purposes. If I want to make an apple pie, apples trump oranges hands down. *If I want a glass of OJ, apples are pretty useless to me. *Similarly, if I have a particular usage pattern, expectations, budget and tolerance for ease of use and/or build quality, one of the two machines will be more suitable than the other. *The real question is how the machines really compare to each other in the various respects. *I, for one, think that the characteristics of the shots produced by each machine are pretty important!

    Cheers,

    Luca


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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    There are always thread topics in pretty much any style of forum that will always envoke strong opinions from both camps (go on to an Audio forum and ask "do cables really make a difference" and watch the trolls come out in force).

    I dont have a particularly strong opinion either way as to which is better (either in terms of quality of coffee or from an engineering / longevity perspective). I know I like my unit, and I am sure that people with a Silvia like theirs.

    I dont have any experience with a Slivia so couldnt personally recommend one but I would recommend a 6910 based on my own personal experience. Ofcourse, I would probably also recommend that the person researches all options and pros / cons of each machine as to make an informed decision.

    When I bought mine, I had no idea what the difference was between a thermoblock and a boiler machine was (or what the terms meant), nor whether or not I needed to be able to extract / steam milk at the same time, nor any consideration for a grinder (had a whirly blade grinder at home, so the minister of finance decreed that we dont need "another" grinder). What attracted me to the 6910 was that it was the "top of the line" of the machines sold at HNs that werent an auto, it had a Barista Champions support (Im a marketers dream I guess) and it was 20% off and on 18 mths int free deferred payment. At that time, i wouldnt have even known where to look for a "proper" machine (the coffee industry in CHCH is probably a little young / small I guess).

    I would take pride in what I was selling if I was to upgrade, as I am sure most on here would, but unfortunately, the skeptical part of me (a large part) would always sway my opinion as to others motivations for upgrading, afterall if it aint broke........

    Sen

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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quote Originally Posted by Senator link=1230618138/20#24 date=1230798534
    I would take pride in what I was selling if I was to upgrade, as I am sure most on here would, but unfortunately, the skeptical part of me (a large part) would always sway my opinion as to others motivations for upgrading, afterall if it aint broke........

    Sen
    One of the reasons I waded into this argument is because this is exactly the position I am in. I had a bog standard Silvia, it wasnt "broke". I "upgraded" it to a PID Silvia, it still wasnt "broke". I had a very capable PID Silvia, I upgraded to a Bezzera commercial machine, the PID Silvia still isnt "broke". One day Ill possibly upgrade from the Bezzera, it wont be "broke". As it happens somebody has asked me if I will sell my "aint broke" PID Silvia, I possibly will. He will get a very good machine, I will get some dollars back in my pocket, everyone will be happy.

    This is the difference between upgrading and replacing. As a generalisation Asian design products have "designed obsolescence", they are designed to be periodically replaced either because they no longer function as designed or because a new model has been released that supersedes the previous model, either by way of new "features" (so called), or cosmetic changes. Generally speaking parts for older consumer appliances are difficult or impossible to obtain. In consumer electronics (eg DVD players etc) the product lifecycle is typically 6 months! This is in stark contrast to traditional European engineering philosophy which has "designed longevity", they are designed to be serviced and repaired, and parts are generally readily available. The downside to this is they are possibly considered "outdated" or lacking in features compared to a product with a much shorter lifecycle. When was the Silvia released? By and large it has undergone only minor tweaks since release.

    Luca, no you cant compare because what you may consider an important attribute could be totally unimportant or even a negative feature for somebody else. There is no such thing as a "perfect" design, and everything involves compromises; thats engineering. Its up to each individual to consider the design attributes (which include price) and decide what is important to THEM.

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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Wow Hoyks you really stirred up a hornets nest.
    Petef put it nicely that we are always striving to improve the quality of our espresso and tweak our machines to get the best possible performance out of them. Then we read about more capable machines that can brew and steam milk at the same time and with having 12 people at Christmas I now have the urge to move on from Miss Silvia to an HX (check out the for sale section).
    I blame CS for giving me the passion, knowledge and desire to produce great espresso shots.
    My son has a 6910 in his bedroom and it suits his needs to a tee, he is impatient and couldnt wait for a Silvia to warm up, it produces a good espresso and steams milk capably, everyone is different and what one person is happy with someone else will want more......thats life I suppose.
    Cant wait to go HX shopping!!!!

  28. #28
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Thanks all for the lively discussion! It made a nice change from the normal threads and it was great to see a well rounded talk about the benefits of both machines without anyone have to have a flame suit on! :)

    On a personal note: I actually admit that I think that the Silvia, because it has a boiler and because of its construction, is better quality but I also love my 6910, with all its foibles because it suits my lifestyle. Having said that, if I had a spare $1,500.00 around, Id definitely be upgrading although, to tell you the truth, aesthetically out of all the machines (appliance or otherwise) on the market, I like the look of the 6910 the best (pathetic, eh!). Not fond of the machines that are over the top blingy s/s like the La Vibiemmes, etc and all the rest look so square and plain! Probably my machine of choice will be the Ascaso Steel, although me having that much money spare for a new machine is proably a long way away!

    Actually, first up on my upgradeitis lit will be a good grinder, but I need to recover from Christmas a bit first... :(

  29. #29
    A_M
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Hoyks... I agree. *

    As a 6910 owner, it has any number of faults but it serves my purpose to a T.

    I like some of the bling with the SS units however, others use our kitchen; thus if they were still available in 12 months - the BZ02 DE would *more than likely get the job of replacing the 6910 at home.

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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quick Mill Vetrano would be my choice, at the moment ::)

  31. #31
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Okay, Im starting a definitely starting a new thread on this one... :D

  32. #32
    Des
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Hi Everyone,

    Two questions.
    What is PID?
    and
    How long does the Silvia take to be up to temperature ready to brew?

    Regards, Des


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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quote Originally Posted by Des link=1230618138/20#31 date=1231049344
    Hi Everyone,

    Two questions.
    What is PID?
    Gday and welcome to CS *:)

    Easiest way for you to read about PID on a Silvia is http://www.pidkits.com/

    Quote Originally Posted by Des link=1230618138/20#31 date=1231049344
    and
    How long does the Silvia take to be up to temperature ready to brew?

    Regards, Des
    Some say a bare minimum of about 15 mins, but a lot agree that temp stability is reached in 45 mins to and hour.

    If Im in a hurry I "cheat" http://www.coffeekid.com/archived/rancilio/cheatsilvia

  34. #34
    Des
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Thanks gronk62,

    The cheat sounds reasonable when in a hurry.

    I am more than very interested in the Silvia. Buying a machine at around $750 then adding a PID seems a bit extreme to me. Does anyone know of an alternative machine of similar quality not needing addons?

    Best Regaeds, Des


  35. #35
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quote Originally Posted by Des link=1230618138/20#33 date=1231057425
    Thanks gronk62,

    The cheat *sounds reasonable when in a hurry.

    I am more than very interested in the Silvia. Buying a machine at around $750 then adding a PID seems a bit extreme to me. *Does anyone know of an alternative machine of similar quality not needing addons?

    Best Regaeds, Des
    Silvia doesnt "need" add-ons. But I did this to mine to make temperature monitoring simple. :)

    http://gronk62.blogspot.com/


  36. #36
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quote Originally Posted by gronk62 link=1230618138/20#32 date=1231050303
    Quote Originally Posted by Des link=1230618138/20#31 date=1231049344
    Hi Everyone,

    Two questions.
    What is PID?
    Gday and welcome to CS *:)

    Easiest way for you to read about PID on a Silvia is http://www.pidkits.com/

    Quote Originally Posted by Des link=1230618138/20#31 date=1231049344
    and
    How long does the Silvia take to be up to temperature ready to brew?

    Regards, Des
    Some say a bare minimum of about 15 mins, but a lot agree that temp stability is reached in 45 mins to and hour.

    If Im in a hurry I "cheat" http://www.coffeekid.com/archived/rancilio/cheatsilvia
    Or buy a 6910, switch on, wait 2 minutes or so and start pulling your shot and steaming your milk...

    Heh, heh, heh...sorry, couldnt help myself! [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif]

  37. #37
    TC
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyks link=1230618138/20#35 date=1231062303
    Or buy a 6910, switch on, wait 2 minutes or so and start pulling your shot and steaming your milk...

    Heh, heh, heh...sorry, couldnt help myself! [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif]
    Or buy one, wait 2 minutes, call Sunbeam service department... :P ;)

  38. #38
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Plllfrrrrttt! (My best impression of a raspberry!) ;)


  39. #39
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyks link=1230618138/20#35 date=1231062303

    Or buy a 6910, switch on, wait 2 minutes or so and start pulling your shot and steaming your milk...

    Heh, heh, heh...sorry, couldnt help myself! [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif]
    Then the taste will be just the same as doing the 2 minute wait on the Silvia.
    The Silvia will be up to water temperature in a few minutes too, but BOTH the Silvia and the Sunbeam (and indeed ALL machines) benefit from a warmup time, preferably with the empty PF loosely in place.


  40. #40
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy link=1230618138/20#38 date=1231063492
    Then the taste will be just the same as doing the 2 minute wait on the Silvia.
    The Silvia will be up to water temperature in a few minutes too, but BOTH the Silvia and the Sunbeam (and indeed ALL machines) benefit from a warmup time, preferably with the empty PF loosely in place.
    Yep, guess thats what a typical "appliance owner" would do fatboy..... however if they wanted a decent coffee they would wait as you suggest!

    Hoyks,

    You CANT have a coffee in a hurry (unless using a teaspoon and Nescafe :-X)..... and if you think you can..... you are kidding yourself!

  41. #41
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Oh you boys are no fun - how can I stir if I tell the truth!

    Ill just reel my fishing line in, pack up my tackle box and go home! [smiley=laugh.gif]

  42. #42
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyks link=1230618138/40#40 date=1231064333
    Oh you boys are no fun - how can I stir if I tell the truth!

    Ill just reel my fishing line in, pack up my tackle box and go home! *[smiley=laugh.gif]
    Yeah, I know.
    Actually helping people with accurate responses is so passť.
    [smiley=i dont do smilies.gif]





  43. #43
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    Hoyks

    The problem is, most of us know the truth..... but many newbies read this site - and may not realise that you are "having a shot"...... and may think that the 6910 (or any other machine) can heat up that quickly!

    Especially when the appliance salespersons at Hardly Normal and the like say similar things.....

    Unfortunately sarcasm has to be obviously that (as is the case with 2mcms post)..... or some will take it at face value....... and others, like me, will jump in to make sure it isnt taken the wrong way....

    And the bait was VERY tasty by the way ;)

  44. #44
    Senior Member ozscott's Avatar
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    Re: Why are Silvias Better???

    The EM6910 does heat up very quickly. *I really like the EM6910 - I think TGod, Dennis, and Luca some up the 6910 well. *I have now had mine for 2 years and it does very well, but I cannot hope that it will last beyond say 5 years - but good value and can do multiple milk coffees easily - far easier than a small single boiler machine.

    Whilst the shots are good from the EM6910 I have to admit that there is a world of difference between the 6910 and my FAEMA Due - the Due consistently puts out sweet shots using the same grinder and bean compared to the 6910; and the Due is very forgiving of grind and dose changes. *I know that is not the comparo being asked for, but I suspect that the Silvia puts out sweeter shots than the 6910. *However that probably depends on how it is used and (sans PID kit - that would make it very expensive compared to a 6910) temp surfed.

    Cheers




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