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Thread: Shower screens for EM6910

  1. #1
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    Shower screens for EM6910

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    My Sunbeam EM6910 is about 18 months old now and going strong. I have been very happy with it, the only issue is the group head needs replacing as it is worn (3yr warranty should cover that).

    I have found this machine performs best when kept clean, I have made 2-3 cups per day and flush the group head about every four-six weeks. I notice that when pours become less consistent and pressure increases its time to clean. Just recently I noticed when cleaning the shower screens that they are poorly machined and a lot of the holes are not punched thru properly and have burrs (particularily the inner or top screen). Some of th burred holes tend to block and after a clean they still were not clear.

    My question is:
    Are better quality/machined screens available? Maybe this may give a better pour and stay cleaner. I have Synesso baskets for the group handle and the holes are perfect. See 2 attached photos of the inner and outer screens.





  2. #2
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F525959584F4E3D0 link=1249544937/0#0 date=1249544937
    My Sunbeam EM6910 is about 18 months old now and going strong. I have been very happy with it, the only issue is the group head needs replacing as it is worn (3yr warranty should cover that).

    I have found this machine performs best when kept clean, I have made 2-3 cups per day and flush the group head about every four-six weeks. I notice that when pours become less consistent and pressure increases its time to clean. Just recently I noticed when cleaning the shower screens that they are poorly machined and a lot of the holes are not punched thru properly and have burrs (particularily the inner or top screen). Some of th burred holes tend to block and after a clean they still were not clear.

    My question is:
    Are better quality/machined screens available? Maybe this may give a better pour and stay cleaner. I have Synesso baskets for the group handle and the holes are perfect. See 2 attached photos of the inner and outer screens.

    Short answer NO..

    You could go along to a Service agent and see if they have any in stock and then pick the best one... Note: Not sure they are even held as a standard on the shelf part.

    Depending on the T&C the worn Group collar may or may not be fully covered if at all. *Assumptions as to what is and is not Vs the extended warranty can be a trap for some. As it is not a SB warranty, if I am correct.

    Let us know how you go...

  3. #3
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    good luck with the warinty thing as the problem is "normal wear and tear" not a manafacturing fault etc.

  4. #4
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910


    the majority of Extended warranties only cover things breaking (manufacture faults)

    NOT user errors
    Not wear and tear
    not abuse

    and definately not
    my machine doesnt make crema anymore
    or my gauge doesnt work
    (because i havent been chemically backflushing the group regurarly)

    or my water flow is slow
    (because i live in Syd or Canberra i dont need to descale my machine)


    Thermoblocks need descaling more often than boilers

    [highlight]Sunbeam EM6900 /10 need more coffee chemical cleaning than a commercial or semi commercial machine [/highlight]otherwise it blocks up and the gauge wont work, and you cant backflush anymore

    if you dont want to clean it, dont buy a sunbeam em6900/10. it will block

    graham

  5. #5
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Am I right though in thinking that collar wear is unrelated to cleaning or lack thereof? AFAICT this could be caused by overdosing, failing to replace GH seal regularly, heavy-handedness (locking the PF too far) and possibly just everyday wear and tear.

    But in the absence of user error, I wouldnt have thought wear and tear would be an acceptable response after 18 months of non-commercial use - taking into account the cost of the machine, intended purpose and cost of replacing the collar. It could be argued that its caused by a design fault, and thus covered by warranty - either manufacturers, extended/third party or statutory.

  6. #6
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 7B56160 link=1249544937/4#4 date=1250038133
    Am I right though in thinking that collar wear is unrelated to cleaning or lack thereof? AFAICT this could be caused by overdosing, failing to replace GH seal regularly, heavy-handedness (locking the group handle too far) and possibly just everyday wear and tear.

    But in the absence of user error, I wouldnt have thought wear and tear would be an acceptable response after 18 months of non-commercial use - taking into account the cost of the machine, intended purpose and cost of replacing the collar. It could be argued that its caused by a design fault, and thus covered by warranty - either manufacturers, extended/third party or statutory.
    YES and NO....

    Excessive collar wear is and can be caused / impacted on but not limited to; *by overdosing, failing to replace GH seal regularly, heavy-handedness (locking the group handle too far) and poor cleaning or lack thereof?

    Coffee grinds etc will add to ware issues.. Be they trappen all around teh group collar or left on the PF and teh lugs... That is why may professionals spend time wiping and cleaning with their hand... Good seal and consistent lock... As well as good practice and not leaving stale grinds trapped in place...


    For those 6910 items that I have seen, that have been managed with some level of attention, the everyday wear and tear is not that bad. *2 to 3 years no problems....

    The issue of Poor manufacturing and critical faults Vs user perception Vs *ware and tear will always be an issue for some... *See ya legal person and *work out the costs and what ya expect...

    A little bit like a gear box on a car... *What it is designed for Vs actual spects Vs how its abused Vs *maintained is not as simple as 2 + 2 = 4...

    If every one did teh same thing it would be simple...

    I for one, would suggest that it would take me about 15 min to 30 min to review an EM6910 and provide a report that would clearly indicate if the unit has been maintained correctly and or suffered use / actions that would contribute to the fault..

    So if ya chasing extended *warranty... *Do not bring it to me... *I would suggest that most experienced tecks can quickly work out if teh unit has been looked after or abused... Some times we get it wrong... *But not often...

    Its like people saying... No officer I was not speeding TRUST me.... *I never Speed. * 5 min later I hook my diag logger to teh ODBII connector to the cars computer and I can see the spped / all ya breaking and Accel forces and where they have exceeded safe limits etc etc etc Including throttle position and some speed info.. *It is there in BLACK and WHITE.. *Yet teh driver, will look ya in teh face and say... *

    NO... I never drive like that... *Or *

    NO... I would never hold the EM6910 with my L/H and arm locked while locking in with my R/H and popping my biceps *:o

    NO... I have never over filled and had water all over teh drying tray and dripping over the sides and over teh front buttons... No never

    No... I clean it every month.. *No I have no tabs left.. Used the last one last week... Trust me..

    Yep, I am drunk, do not know ya name or number... But trust me I will call you in a week..

    Sorry... I am a hard core realist and like many on the front line get fed up with the stories told to divert from poor maintenance or some one wanting a new machine for nothing... *:P


  7. #7
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Even saying all that AM I found that the gh metal on the 6910 here at work (replaced under warranty) was extremely soft.

  8. #8
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 6B574A515B5A4D58505B3F0 link=1249544937/6#6 date=1250041662
    Even saying all that AM I found that the gh metal on the 6910 here at work (replaced under warranty) was extremely soft.
    YEP.. Soft aint the work for it ;)

    The biggest issue is teh steeped lugs :-X :-X

    It often means that instead of a large surface area, you tend to get a the lip of the step that connects to teh group collar. That means the pressure is not distributed across a larger surface area and contributes to what I perceive as excessive force on teh collar... Even when used as per teh manual...

    I have ground off teh lip on my naked PF... But was sloppy when I did it and thus some grind marks on teh wall... However I did notice a marked inprovement.

    NOTE: The EM5900 no longer has stepped lugs.. But not the right size for teh EM6910.. Bugger.

    I can also state that by using a slight smear of "lanoseal" or another food grade wax type lube... Some sponsor do stock... And lightly coat the group collar / lugs.. It makes a great improvement...

    However, once again; these are after market mods and if the lugs were not stepped, many of the collar issues would not occur.

    I would also suggest that if the collar was made of a harder material the step on the pF lugs would show serious signs of wear and tear in a short time.. And or wear to the extent that the critical angle would no longer be a problem...

    As I see it... A cost cutting exercise when sourcing OEM parts to make the system.... Thus has led to a significant issue as to long term stability of teh collar..

    However, good maintenance and correct use is still a must be it an EM6910 or any other machine..


    nickwalt likes this.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 416E6765724D616E6167656D656E74000 link=1249544937/5#5 date=1250040524
    Coffee grinds etc will add to ware issues.. Be they trappen all around teh group collar or left on the group handle and teh lugs... *That is why may professionals spend time wiping and cleaning with their hand... *Good seal and consistent lock... As well as good practice and not leaving stale grinds trapped in place...
    Really? While it seems obvious that the collar design is a bit lacking, and the metal used too soft for the application I would be utterly flabbergasted to learn that the collar metal is softer than coffee grinds!

    I dont disagree that many of the faults reported with SB machines here and elsewhere are probably caused by lack of cleaning/maintenance and/or user abuse...

  10. #10
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 5578380 link=1249544937/8#8 date=1250043410
    Quote Originally Posted by 416E6765724D616E6167656D656E74000 link=1249544937/5#5 date=1250040524
    Coffee grinds etc will add to ware issues.. Be they trappen all around teh group collar or left on the group handle and teh lugs... *That is why may professionals spend time wiping and cleaning with their hand... *Good seal and consistent lock... As well as good practice and not leaving stale grinds trapped in place...
    Really? While it seems obvious that the collar design is a bit lacking, and the metal used too soft for the application I would be utterly flabbergasted to learn that the collar metal is softer than coffee grinds!


    I dont disagree that many of the faults reported with SB machines here and elsewhere are probably caused by lack of cleaning/maintenance and/or user abuse...

    TG will understand... As he knows first hand how soft some of teh collar were...

    If coffee was soft then why does it stuff up blades and after a while ALL coffee grinders need to have the HARDENED burrs replaced...

    The grinds get in and take up space.. some may get crushed but it all means that somthing has to give... *Look at any commercial group handle and Group... The chrome is removed, the brass is showing through... *Lots of use and coffee grinds act as a grinding medium... As well as heat, they also impact on teh condition and assist in wear of teh seals etc..

    The grinds are quite hard... *They do not have to be harder than metal to cause wear and tear... Just crunch a few in ya mouth and keep chewing.. Crunchy little buggers. *Do that consistently and see what happens to ya teeth.



  11. #11
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 57787173645B77787771737B737862160 link=1249544937/9#9 date=1250044100
    Quote Originally Posted by 5578380 link=1249544937/8#8 date=1250043410
    Quote Originally Posted by 416E6765724D616E6167656D656E74000 link=1249544937/5#5 date=1250040524
    Coffee grinds etc will add to ware issues.. Be they trappen all around teh group collar or left on the group handle and teh lugs... *That is why may professionals spend time wiping and cleaning with their hand... *Good seal and consistent lock... As well as good practice and not leaving stale grinds trapped in place...
    Really? While it seems obvious that the collar design is a bit lacking, and the metal used too soft for the application I would be utterly flabbergasted to learn that the collar metal is softer than coffee grinds!


    I dont disagree that many of the faults reported with SB machines here and elsewhere are probably caused by lack of cleaning/maintenance and/or user abuse...

    TG will understand... As he knows first hand how soft some of teh collar were...

    If coffee was soft then why does it stuff up blades and after a while ALL coffee grinders need to have the HARDENED burrs replaced...

    The grinds get in and take up space.. some may get crushed but it all means that somthing has to give... *Look at any commercial group handle and Group... The chrome is removed, the brass is showing through... *Lots of use and coffee grinds act as a grinding medium... As well as heat, they also impact on teh condition and assist in wear of teh seals etc..

    The grinds are quite hard... *They do not have to be harder than metal to cause wear and tear... Just crunch a few in ya mouth and keep chewing.. Crunchy little buggers. *Do that consistently and see what happens to ya teeth.


    Fair point - wouldnt this then indicate the use of a more durable metal for an application where friction and coffee grinds are an inevitable consequence of the intended use, though? The collar is not, after all, listed as a consumable part as grinder burrs are. And really, were talking about less than two years of non-commercial use - I havent heard of group collar wear problems on any other common domestic machines, some of which have been around for decades... so have to wonder what part poor design and material selection play versus user error.

  12. #12
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 517C3C0 link=1249544937/10#10 date=1250045765
    I havent heard of group collar wear problems on any other common domestic machines, some of which have been around for decades... so have to wonder what part poor design and material selection play versus user error.

    I have and I have seen it... Usually when cheep er system get modded to run non pressurised... What usualy also happens is the teh PF and or lugs break / fracture..

    Think about it... False pressure... Is generated in teh double floor of teh basket.. Thus NO NEED for heavy Groups or PF..

    But when you convert to a single floor and then rely on the system / machine to develop and withstand the extra forces... SOMTHING has to give, and it will over time

    Use a EM6910 with supermarket coffee and double floor filters and the collar will last for 5 years plus...

    As the the material... TG, myself and others have done this to death.. Material of the collar and the shape of the PF lugs all play a part.

  13. #13
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 654A43415669454A45434149414A50240 link=1249544937/11#11 date=1250046294
    Quote Originally Posted by 517C3C0 link=1249544937/10#10 date=1250045765
    I havent heard of group collar wear problems on any other common domestic machines, some of which have been around for decades... so have to wonder what part poor design and material selection play versus user error.

    I have and I have seen it... *Usually when cheep er system get modded to run non pressurised... *What usualy also happens is the teh group handle and or lugs break / fracture..

    Think about it... False pressure... Is generated in teh double floor of teh basket.. Thus NO NEED for heavy Groups or group handle..

    But when you convert to a single floor and then rely on the system / machine to develop and withstand the extra forces... *SOMTHING has to give, and it will over time

    Use a EM6910 with supermarket coffee and double floor filters and the collar will last for 5 years plus...
    Dont know about that - pressure is pressure - it doesnt matter to the collar and lugs whether its created by a puck of fresh coffee or a metal disk with a small hole - they still have to hold the group handle in place. My guess would be that the additional wear on the collar when using nonpressurised baskets would be due to excessive updosing - after all, anyone who knows enough to use the unpressurised baskets will also know that you need to updose to get a good shot out of the Sunbeam... right? ;)

    As the the material... TG, myself and others have done this to death.. *Material of the collar and the shape of the group handle lugs all play a part.
    Well, thats my point. IMO poor design and choice of materials make a worn collar a potentially valid warranty claim - provided that the machine hasnt been abused.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E71787A6D527E717E787A727A716B1F0 link=1249544937/11#11 date=1250046294
    Use a EM6910 with supermarket coffee and double floor filters and the collar will last for 5 years plus...
    Snort. I wonder how many 6910s would last for 5 years plus.


  15. #15
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 4D6C6767607A090 link=1249544937/13#13 date=1250046733
    Quote Originally Posted by 5E71787A6D527E717E787A727A716B1F0 link=1249544937/11#11 date=1250046294
    Use a EM6910 with supermarket coffee and double floor filters and the collar will last for 5 years plus...
    Snort. *I wonder how many 6910s would last for 5 years plus.
    With appropriate maintenance, repair and replacement of worn out parts - no reason why they shouldnt. Just like any other machine.

  16. #16
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 5D7C7777706A190 link=1249544937/13#13 date=1250046733
    Quote Originally Posted by 5E71787A6D527E717E787A727A716B1F0 link=1249544937/11#11 date=1250046294
    Use a EM6910 with supermarket coffee and double floor filters and the collar will last for 5 years plus...
    Snort. *I wonder how many 6910s would last for 5 years plus.
    Sniffle... Use a tissue *;)

    I know of a few that have not long to go... But are looked after and one uses the double baskets with *a different grind... Their collar is almost like new.

    As to other smaller machines... Just look at the total manufacturing around the Group seal etc Big solid seals on any Commercial or REAL coffee machine... Set up to take the pressure..

    Quote Originally Posted by 7459190 link=1249544937/12#12 date=1250046689
    it doesnt matter to the collar and lugs whether its created by a puck of fresh coffee or a metal disk with a small hole - they still have to hold the group handle in place.
    Then look at the little units.. Thin soft Si seals... *Physics again comes into play... *The double floor generates the false back pressure... and contains it to a large extent.. *Boils law once again.. *

    Perceptions Vs Eng principles and physics * ;)


    DOH... Snort... Opps swine flu...... *;D *



  17. #17
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 0D222B293E012D222D2B29212922384C0 link=1249544937/15#15 date=1250047289
    Quote Originally Posted by 5D7C7777706A190 link=1249544937/13#13 date=1250046733
    Quote Originally Posted by 5E71787A6D527E717E787A727A716B1F0 link=1249544937/11#11 date=1250046294
    Use a EM6910 with supermarket coffee and double floor filters and the collar will last for 5 years plus...
    Snort. *I wonder how many 6910s would last for 5 years plus.
    Sniffle... Use a tissue *;)

    I know of a few that have not long to go... But are looked after and one uses the double baskets with *a different grind... Their collar is almost like new.

    As to other smaller machines... Just look at the total manufacturing around the Group seal etc Big solid seals... Set up to take the pressure..

    Quote Originally Posted by 7459190 link=1249544937/12#12 date=1250046689
    it doesnt matter to the collar and lugs whether its created by a puck of fresh coffee or a metal disk with a small hole - they still have to hold the group handle in place.
    Then look at the little units.. Thin soft Si seals... *Physics again comes into play... *The double floor generates the false back pressure... and contains it to a large extent.. *Boils law once again.. *

    Perceptions Vs Eng principles and physics * ;)


    DOH... Snort... Opps swine flu...... *;D *


    I bow to your superior physics knowledge :)

    But its really a red-herring. The cheap machines arent designed or advertised to run unpressurised - the EM6910 is. "Commercial quality", in fact, IIRC ;) Hence it should be capable of doing so without breaking, if properly maintained and cared for. What I was getting at is that I dont know of any comparable machines that have similar collar-wear issues.

  18. #18
    A_M
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 301D5D0 link=1249544937/16#16 date=1250047818
    Quote Originally Posted by 0D222B293E012D222D2B29212922384C0 link=1249544937/15#15 date=1250047289
    Quote Originally Posted by 5D7C7777706A190 link=1249544937/13#13 date=1250046733
    Quote Originally Posted by 5E71787A6D527E717E787A727A716B1F0 link=1249544937/11#11 date=1250046294
    Use a EM6910 with supermarket coffee and double floor filters and the collar will last for 5 years plus...
    Snort. *I wonder how many 6910s would last for 5 years plus.
    Sniffle... Use a tissue *;)

    I know of a few that have not long to go... But are looked after and one uses the double baskets with *a different grind... Their collar is almost like new.

    As to other smaller machines... Just look at the total manufacturing around the Group seal etc Big solid seals... Set up to take the pressure..

    Quote Originally Posted by 7459190 link=1249544937/12#12 date=1250046689
    it doesnt matter to the collar and lugs whether its created by a puck of fresh coffee or a metal disk with a small hole - they still have to hold the group handle in place.
    Then look at the little units.. Thin soft Si seals... *Physics again comes into play... *The double floor generates the false back pressure... and contains it to a large extent.. *Boils law once again.. *

    Perceptions Vs Eng principles and physics * ;)


    DOH... Snort... Opps swine flu...... *;D *


    I bow to your superior physics knowledge :)

    But its really a red-herring. The cheap machines arent designed or advertised to run unpressurised - the EM6910 is. "Commercial quality", in fact, IIRC ;) Hence it should be capable of doing so without breaking, if properly maintained and cared for. What I was getting at is that I dont know of any comparable machines that have similar collar-wear issues.


    I agree totaly ;)

  19. #19
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Sunbeam consistantly write "Commercial Quality" in the User Guide.
    Thats BS.

    m@ wrote:
    Well, thats my point. IMO poor design and choice of materials make a worn collar a potentially valid warranty claim - provided that the machine hasnt been abused.

    I did get ours replaced under warranty.



  20. #20
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    I am petty sure & many will say its a fact that many manufacturers (not all) engineer products with a use by date

    They dont build products to last more than 7 years

    KK

  21. #21
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 16323B3B38380216322E30325D0 link=1249544937/19#19 date=1250050438
    I am petty sure & many will say its a fact that many manufacturers (not all) engineer products with a use by date

    They dont build products to last more than 7 years

    KK

    KK, for many items to day it can be significantly shorter... Due to technology some items are totaly disposable for many reasons and yet may cosy a few $$ or many thousands..

    In teh medical area items that once were and could be re used and would last 100 operations and cost many thousands; are to day marketed and sold as SINGLE USE... *Due to LAW and court issue and people complaining...

    Same product, but it allows the manufacturer to manage teh risk..

    It could be a special highly specialised burr for teh skull... *USE ONLY ONCE... *Frames that you see people in that hold pins and traction in place... *Years ago, ya kept using until they fell apart or broke... *To day SINGLE use...

    A set of Crutches... *Wooden / Ally etc etc *are defined as SINGLE USE.. Thus if you want another patient to use... That have to go through a Testing / Re manufacturing process.. *This can cost more that just buying another set...

    This approach is becoming more teh norm rather than the exception

    WHY... Because teh average Joe Blow wants to take ya to court and get Mils as a settlement if any thing goes wrong... *Thus the manufacture covers their Ass and teh cost of health care becomes such a burden that the Government goes broke and the health care workers are all stressed...

    Then Joe Blow complains once again...

    Sorry... Soap box... *

    But one day, many people might start to see beyond their own selfish noses... *But I doubt IT *:-[

  22. #22
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    I think when they opened up my skull that Im happy they didnt reuse any impliments.

    Also, imagine if something had gone wrong and they had ME to contend with.

  23. #23
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Quote Originally Posted by 576B766D676671646C67030 link=1249544937/21#21 date=1250060249
    I think when they opened up my skull that Im happy they didnt reuse any impliments.

    Also, imagine if something had gone wrong and they had ME to contend with.
    Or may be it would be your family...

    I am not saying there is not a place for Single use etc... But like many things... I think we are swinging way to far in one direction... There needs to be some balance, if society on a whole is to gain from it...

    Just went to visit and the use of ECT and long term effects have yet to be fully realised... Many there were on their 3 or 4 full session of treatment...... But is seen by many as a Quick fix :-/

    Soz... OT

  24. #24
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Re: Shower screens for EM6910

    Reckon thered be a market for single-use espresso machines, pre-loaded with pod of stale coffee and UHT milk... remove from wrapper, press a button, drink the swill and discard the machine ;D

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    Snort. I wonder how many 6910s would last for 5 years plus.
    FWIW mine is 8 yrs old has had about 10-15kg per year put through
    (flame proof suit now being donned)
    Never been cleaned but it has been all rain water no city mud or Fluoride
    have just now replaced collar, filter and GH seal yes collar is soft
    I have cleaned it and will do so from now on mainly because coffee tastes better
    All in all could not be happier with machine

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Rockingham W.A.
    Posts
    1,347
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis View Post
    Snort. I wonder how many 6910s would last for 5 years plus.
    I had two 6910's until recently. The 2008 one was bought "new" when it was 18 months old and had pulled 5000+ shots (courtesy Hardly Normal Belmont - never again) before I had managed more than 30. After a group seal & collar at the 3 months point, it is still flawless to the point that I have kept it. The 2010 6910 has never needed anything beyond a clean. If an ignoranus gets hold of a 6910 (or any other bit of gear for that matter) it will probably break - hence the neverending stream of "blown boiler Silvias" at WA repairers. My own Silvia gave me 9 trouble free years.

    I really wish the anti-Breville / SB posts on grounds of reliability in CS were more informed...

    TampIt
    PS: my mid '80's La Pavoni 2 group is also still working well - no more than routine maintenance.



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