Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Silvia earth leakage

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    3

    Silvia earth leakage

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi.
    I wounder if you could give a newbie a couple of tips - as you guys appear to know Silvias.

    Ive had my Rancilio Silvia for a couple of years (it was second hand but in good nick when I bought it). Last weekend, my home RCD/Earth leakage breaker popped and I traced it to the Rancilio Silvia.

    Ive done a few tests and I reckon the boiler is shorting to earth. Any tips on what I should look for? I suspect this may be an expensive repair.

    Thanks in advance

  2. #2
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: Silvia earth leakage

    Quote Originally Posted by 123324243F353D560 link=1254702685/0#0 date=1254702684
    Hi.
    I wounder if you could give a newbie a couple of tips - as you guys appear to know Silvias.

    Ive had my Rancilio Silvia for a couple of years (it was second hand but in good nick when I bought it). *Last weekend, my home RCD/Earth leakage breaker popped and I traced it to the Rancilio Silvia.

    Ive done a few tests and I reckon the boiler is shorting to earth. *Any tips on what I should look for? *I suspect this may be an expensive repair.

    Thanks in advance
    1: Where are you ?

    2: What Electrical or other back ground do you have ?

    3: What are teh other tests you have tried ?

    Boiler should be Earthed... You mean Heating Element dont you ?

    What is the Current tripping at / what is you Insulation test showing with other components out of cct...

    A multi meter is not good enough..

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    3

    Re: Silvia earth leakage

    Hi. Thanks for the rapid response.

    Based in UK (240VAC Mains)

    I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, back 20 years ago. Im happy doing DIY wiring, etc. The Silvia wiring diagram is fairly simple, so shouldnt be a big problem to troubleshoot it.

    Ive taken off the earth loop to mains ground to do the tests with the machine live.

    There are only two items earthed which could be leaking to earth (no apparent cables shorting to ground): heating element (boiler heating resistance in Rancilios manual) and the solenoid (group electrovalve in the manual)

    Im using a standard multimeter, as I have no access to a PAT tester. I may be able to find a Megger, as I believe a friend has one

    I believe that the standard trip current for domestic UK RCDs is 30mA - although I cant check that until Im back at home tomorrow.

    As you suggest - the boiler is earthed. The heating element shouldnt be (but I think it is)

    As far as I remember, Ive checked the voltage case- to ground (with the mains earth disconnected. I get 240v (no surprise if theres earth leakage). The machine still trips with the solenoid disconnected, but does trip when the element is connected. This suggests the problem child is the element. BTW - the machines till produces hot water and will brew coffee with the earth cable disconnected - so the short must be pretty small at present. However, its clearly not a great idea to let it get worse or Ill electrocute that cat (or the girlfriend).

    The element looks pretty well stuck into the boiler, so Im guessing the machine needs a new boiler - but any new ideas well worth considering.

    Cheers

  4. #4
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: Silvia earth leakage

    Quote Originally Posted by 1435222239333B500 link=1254702685/2#2 date=1254704451
    Hi. *Thanks for the rapid response.

    Based in UK (240VAC Mains)

    I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, back 20 years ago. *Im happy doing DIY wiring, etc. *The Silvia wiring diagram is fairly simple, so shouldnt be a big problem to troubleshoot it.

    Ive taken off the earth loop to mains ground to do the tests with the machine live.

    There are only two items earthed which could be leaking to earth (no apparent cables shorting to ground): heating element (boiler heating resistance in Rancilios manual) and the solenoid (group electrovalve in the manual)

    Im using a standard multimeter, as I have no access to a PAT tester. *I may be able to find a Megger, as I believe a friend has one

    I believe that the standard trip current for domestic UK RCDs is 30mA - although I cant check that until Im back at home tomorrow.

    As you suggest - the boiler is earthed. *The heating element shouldnt be (but I think it is)

    As far as I remember, Ive checked the voltage case- to ground (with the mains earth disconnected. *I get 240v (no surprise if theres earth leakage). *The machine still trips with the solenoid disconnected, but does trip when the element is connected. *This suggests the problem child is the element. *BTW - the machines till produces hot water and will brew coffee with the earth cable disconnected - so the short must be pretty small at present. *However, its clearly not a great idea to let it get worse or Ill electrocute that cat (or the girlfriend).

    The element looks pretty well stuck into the boiler, so Im guessing the machine needs a new boiler - but any new ideas well worth considering.

    Cheers
    Can not comment on teh Boiler... Dont have one :-) But others might..


    In Australia.. Usually look for >1Meg for Insulation but for Heating elements it is some what Lower 100K and in some cases down to 10K... The issue here is about leakage Current and it could be right on the limit, but with other stray leakage on the cct... The system trips...

    Thus a PAT / Mega is the only way forward to clearly identify by HOW much the system is IN or OUT...

    However; it is some what a given that regardless of teh Value... Your looking at a new Element and maybe a Boiler as well.


    As to the Partner / Girfriend.. That is life..

    As to teh cat... Thats bad news, the RSPCA will do ya big time.... ;D

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    3

    Re: Silvia earth leakage

    Thanks - sounds like youre thinking the same way I am.

    Both sides of the element are 1.4 Meg to earth. Im thinking that the new fridge, freezer, toaster, etc in the new kitchen Ive just built - might well be starting to leak just a little bit. Ill have a try tomorrow with everything else disconnected. I might be lucky.

    Whatever - looks like a new element (which I believe means a new boiler).

    Many Thanks. Ill come back and let you know what I find - either that or youll hear it in the news about an under-caffeinated bloke who was taken away shouting about megohms to the moon!

    Cheers :-)

  6. #6
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: Silvia earth leakage

    Quote Originally Posted by 260710100B0109620 link=1254702685/4#4 date=1254705961
    Thanks - sounds like youre thinking the same way I am.

    Both sides of the element are 1.4 Meg to earth. *Im thinking that the new fridge, freezer, toaster, etc in the new kitchen Ive just built - might well be starting to leak just a little bit. *Ill have a try tomorrow with everything else disconnected. *I might be lucky.

    Whatever - looks like a new element (which I believe means a new boiler).

    Many Thanks. *Ill come back and let you know what I find - either that or youll hear it in the news about an under-caffeinated bloke who was taken away shouting about megohms to the moon!

    Cheers :-)
    The insulation however needs to be done at 250V or 500v to ensure a true reading... At the Multi meter voltages... It may read higher than what it is... Under Load..

    One of these days "Alice" megohms to the moon "Alice" ;D

    Will await for further feedback



Similar Threads

  1. Ms Silvia leakage
    By Ausnadian in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 29th November 2016, 07:12 AM
  2. Help, Gaggia Classic coffee earth leakage after cleaning
    By stevepole in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 20th June 2009, 05:11 PM
  3. Napolitana earth leakage again :(
    By dsgfh in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 2nd September 2007, 10:14 AM
  4. My 20 yr old Mas tripped the Earth Leakage
    By TEPIN in forum Brewing Equipment (non-machine specific)
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 26th June 2006, 08:01 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •