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Thread: Re New Machine Suggestions

  1. #1
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    Re New Machine Suggestions

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi,

    I require some advice - currently have Gaggia Classic & EM0480 Grinder. I am happy with the coffee I produce and I can produce
    microfoam milk. I usually brew about 10/12 coffees per week all milk based. My only gripe is that the Gaggia runs out of steam if *I need to produce more than two coffees - sure I can turn on the brew button and gradually coax it to produce more steam.

    Without wanting(at thia stage) to go down the path of the machines over $1000++ - I was considering what would be the next step up from this. I have looked at the Sunbeam 6910 and it appears that it can produce steam on demand but a review *I read comparing it with the Silvia (actually showed a video) the steam output did not seem too strong????

    Are there any machines other than the 6910 (not Silvia) *which you would recommend *or I should consider which would be a step up from the Gaggia which would produce good steam output and not break the bank.

    Thank you

  2. #2
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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    Realistically, your only option is to go up to HX if you want more steam power. You will have the same problem with 6910 and Silvia.

    Have you done the silvia steam wand mod to your classic?
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1126833848

    Quite simply, you are way better off spending your money on a new grinder. I went from a 0480 to a mazzer mini and the difference is phenomenal. The Classic really is an awesome awesome machine. It may not have the complexity of flavour coming out of a Synesso, it may not have as much steam power as a 15L boiler, but it does a damn good job.
    The process of steaming more than 2 milk-based drinks isnt all that complicated. You have numerous options:
    - brew 2 espressos
    -steam milk for 2 espressos
    repeat

    OR
    - go one by one

    The key is to turn the steam switch off as soon as you have finished texturising the milk. Then refill the boiler by hitting the brew button (a whole lot of steam will come out of the group head). Then, bleed the steam wand, hit the steam button, wait 20 seconds, and BOOM - you are back in business.
    If I had a latte-art comp with HX users I doubt I would be too far behind. Unless you are pumping out 4+ coffees at any one time (in which case its time for $2000+ HX), have faith in the magic that is the Classic!

    Cheers,
    Ben

  3. #3
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    I find the 6910 easily handles 150mls of milk at a time even though its noticeably slower than my Expobar.

    Doubling to 300ml is just a lot slower but it gets there.

    I rarely do more than one coffee at a time on a 6910 so its not an issue for me.

    Im quite comfortable making 8 - 10 coffees + some hot chocolates with my Expobar but wouldnt want to try it on the Sunbeam.

    Being able to pull a shot and steam at the same time is a plus for the Sunbeam but it is not in the same league as my HX when it comes to multiple drinks.

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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    Gday pricespringer, I hear you loud and clear with the gaggia. The wife and I drink from mugs, always, so my milk volume is a lot. The gaggia cubika I had would just manage enough for one medium size mug before it was all over. My new 6910 steams enough milk for 2 mugs with ease and would do it all day. Sure the steam doesnt start with a great woosh but it builds up within 5 seconds and just gets stronger and stronger with no drop off at all. I am truly spoilt by this machine after the gaggia. ;)

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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by 22203B31372122203B3C353720520 link=1254887417/0#0 date=1254887417

    Without wanting(at thia stage) to go down the path of the machines over $1000++ -
    For your usage and budget the 6910 fits well. Of course texturing is going to take longer than a 3k machine. Did you have something pressing to do in thosa extra 90 seconds that you would save by spending more than you want? ;)



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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    Can I just say that I have used both a 6910 and a Gaggia Classic and there is no point "upgrading". You can easily texture 400ml+ of milk with the Classic if you know how to tweak it, and in my own personal opinion, the output of the Gaggia is superior to that of the 6910.

    There are a lot of Silvia/6910 lovers on this forum, but realise that the Classic is a solid machine that will last a life-time and can produce phenomenal espresso.
    In regards to derrilex comments, please be aware that the cubika is a different machine to the classic.


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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by 7D7F646E687E7D7F64636A687F0D0 link=1254887417/0#0 date=1254887417
    the Gaggia runs out of steam ifI need to produce more than two coffees - sure I can turn on the brew button and gradually coax it to produce more steam.
    I may be misreading something here... do you mean you cant do a single large jug of milk thats enough for more than two coffees, or youre trying to do consecutive jugs and cant get any more than two cups worth steamed?

    If the former, cant do an awful lot about that - youve got a 120ml boiler, theres a limit to how much steam can be produced from that. But if the latter, with a single boiler machine like the Gaggia you should be refilling the boiler after every jug of milk, regardless of whether or not youll actually be doing a second jug. Apart from running out of steam, youll eventually cook the element if you dont refill the boiler.

    Compared to the Silvia, the EM6910 steam performance was pretty ordinary back in 2007. I would think the Gaggia would initially be similar to the Silvia but steam pressure would just not last as long on account of its smaller boiler (Silvia has 300ml).

    Greg

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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    Thanks to everybody to date for all their replies.

    It seems that there is some different opinions as to what the EM6910 can do. I agree that the brew from the Classic is usually very good - It is a pity that they didnt make a large boiler with a bit more grunt.

    Now apart from the Silvia is there any machine which is a step up and can produce better steaming qualities without jumping into what I would call the much more expensive area.

    I noted some replies refer to upgrading my EM0480 grinder but this would only improve the Shots (hopefully) and not steaming capabilties.

    With regard to Greg Pullmans comments - No I refer to only steaming one large jug of milk, but I find if I make a mistake and I am not happy with that jug and then try again the Classic struggles- probably need more patience to wait until *it fiils up and pressure is up again.

    Regards,

    Les

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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    Hi Les,

    You may like to look at the Nemox Fenice from (no free plug here) http://(no free plug here)/nemox-fenice-espresso-machine-p-126.html or the Lelit Combi from Talk Coffee http://talkcoffee.com.au/equipment/coffee-machine-lelit-combi.php. Others may carry them too. These machines are identical in the brewing side of things, the Combi just has a built-in Lux grinder which is probably a touch better than the EM0480 (I had this same machine under the name of a Quaha Napoletana for four years). They have a 300ml brass boiler like the Silvia but dont have quite the same commercial feel as the Silvia. The steam pressure from the Nemox isnt quite as good on account of it having a cooler steam thermostat (135C rather than 145C) and a thermal fuse at 147 or so I think so you cant just stick a hotter thermostat in. That said, they dont have the Silvias price tag either, and with the Combi you can get a machine and grinder for the same price as a Silvia. Thats why I got this machine to start with.

    Whenever you steam milk you should wait for the heater to switch off so its at maximum temperature. That is unless youre trying to temperature surf which means starting the steaming a bit early so the heater stays on the whole time and supposedly get slightly longer steaming performance.

    Greg

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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by 535245455E5B524F370 link=1254887417/3#3 date=1254911845
    My new 6910 steams enough milk for 2 mugs with ease and would do it all day.
    I get similar performance from my EM6910. *Nowhere near the power of my Giotto but certainly better than my Napoletana II for >2 coffees. *I once used the Sunbeam at a party and made around 25 coffees, all but one of them milk-based. *I made them back-to-back and never ran out of steam.

    Someone mentioned in another thread that Sunbeam are running the promotion again where you get a Ďfreeí 0480 grinder with your 6910. Pretty good value IMO.

    I dont think Id rush out and buy an EM6910 again as I, like many others on here, have had issues with mine. My best recommendation is to simply wait until you can afford a HX machine and make do with your Gaggia for now. However if youre not willing to wait and you want considerable more steaming power than you have now, I dont know of any other options in your price range.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5045525047425B5B5A5659370 link=1254887417/8#8 date=1254980202
    You may like to look at the Nemox Fenice from (no free plug here) or the Lelit Combi from Talk Coffee
    I have a rebadged Combi (Napoletana II) and itís a great machine which Iíd highly recommend. *However if the OP is mostly concerned about more steam, I donít think this would alleviate Lesí frustrations with the Gaggia.

  11. #11
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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    I agree with all of the recommendations, but for this specific situation - are they right?

    For someone who is looking for a significant increase in steaming ability, how is it worth upgrading from his current setup? I agree that some people are looking for minor improvements to go closer to achieving what they want in a coffee machine, but surely this is what occurs at the higher end of the domestic machine spectrum? ie. I can understand someone wanting to go from a single boiler hx to a dual boiler. But a Classic to a Silvia or a Lelit? pricespringer would potentially sell the classic for ~$200, the grinder for ~$120, and then pay ~$700 for the lelit. So he is down $380 for a very minimal improvement.
    Realistically, to achieve what he wants to achieve, it is a matter of spending the $$$ and going to HX. Now I understand if that is not financially viable at this point in time, but the added $380 could be a nice start on the saving regime....

    Just my $0.02

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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B434C4A42181D290 link=1254887417/10#10 date=1254983379
    I agree with all of the recommendations, but for this specific situation - are they right?

    For someone who is looking for a significant increase in steaming ability, how is it worth upgrading from his current setup? I agree that some people are looking for minor improvements to go closer to achieving what they want in a coffee machine, but surely this is what occurs at the higher end of the domestic machine spectrum? ie. I can understand someone wanting to go from a single boiler hx to a dual boiler. But a Classic to a Silvia or a Lelit? pricespringer would potentially sell the classic for ~$200, the grinder for ~$120, and then pay ~$700 for the lelit. So he is down $380 for a very minimal improvement.
    Realistically, to achieve what he wants to achieve, it is a matter of spending the $$$ and going to HX. Now I understand if that is not financially viable at this point in time, but the added $380 could be a nice start on the saving regime....

    Just my $0.02
    Agree. *

    The OP asked if there was anything suitable under $1K other than the 6910 or Siliva which would give significant improvement.

    Answer: Unfortunately NO

    Quote Originally Posted by 595B404A4C5A595B40474E4C5B290 link=1254887417/0#0 date=1254887417
    I have looked at the Sunbeam 6910 and it appears that it can produce steam on demand but a review *I read comparing it with the Silvia (actually showed a video) the steam output did not seem too strong????
    I have not used a Silvia but do a use similar machine (Quaha Napoletana II) every day at work. Considering both have 300ml boilers, I would assume that steam capability would be similar.

    The Quaha produces strong steam initially which slowly dissipates. *In comparison my 6910 produces steam which is weaker than the Quaha is initially but itís virtually continuous. *I have not actually tried running the 6910 steam continuously to see if it ever runs out, but have never been left short whilst frothing milk.

    The Giotto steam power is in a completely other ball park. Iíve had it for 3 months and am still learning to control its power. *


  13. #13
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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    Hi Pricespringer.

    Have a think about the Diadema Perfetta. Its built like a tank, will take your espresso to the next level and its youre happy to wait for steam, its a big step up from Silvia level. It is top end of your budget, but the build is unsurpassed at this level.

    Its a thing of beauty as well ;-)

    Details: http://www.talkcoffee.com.au/equipment/coffee-machine-diadema-perfetta.php

    Chris

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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    Hi Chris,

    Thanks - I linked to your site but the Diadema Perfetta at $1790 thats a huge leap in what I said (one small step for man - a big one for me - maybe one day?)

    Les


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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by 35372C26203635372C2B222037450 link=1254887417/13#13 date=1254986577
    Hi Chris,

    Thanks - I linked to your site but the Diadema Perfetta at $1790 thats a huge leap in what I said (one small step for man - a big one for me - maybe one day?)

    Les
    No worries Les...

    $1790 is only RRP so sale price is lower. One thing to keep in mind is that resale values on this and the VBM Domobar Piccolo are excellent. Perhaps think about cost of ownership to purchase and then later sell one. It then makes it cheap! (assuming you have the $$$ to outlay in the first place ;))

    Chris

  16. #16
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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    Hi pricespringer, I know this machine isnt sub $1,000 but its a little closer @ $1400 RRP. Im not sure how low it can be brought for as I havent pursued that. Its a HX machine the nuova simonelli oscar. It was suggested to myself by fellow CSers and whilst I havent made a decision from my research it seems to be a very capable machine. My *two biggest negatives towards it is 1; it doesnt have a *hot water wand (maybe it can be dispensed via the group head *:-/) and 2; it seems that it cant be used with a timer with out mods.

    Steve

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    Re: Re New Machine Suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by 3C3D37243A3F25560 link=1254887417/9#9 date=1254983357
    I get similar performance from my EM6910. *Nowhere near the power of my Giotto but certainly better than my Napoletana II for >2 coffees.
    Somewhat surprisingly, its mainly the wide dead-band Steam T/Stat that causes this phenomenon. If you can locate and fit a better quality T/Stat, the Boiler Temp is maintained closer to the mean of the T/Stat nominal temperature and results in huge quantities of steam being available. Its even better when PID control is involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3C3D37243A3F25560 link=1254887417/9#9 date=1254983357
    I once used the Sunbeam at a party and made around 25 coffees, all but one of them milk-based. *I made them back-to-back and never ran out of steam.
    Ditto for me too... but with an Imat Mokita in my case, plus PID Controller for both Brew Water and Steam control... 8-)

    Mal.



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