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Thread: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

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    Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Anyone know were I can buy a M5/12mm stainless steel screw for this mod? Ive looked online and all the screws listed are only #304 grade not #316. It is not the sort of thing bunnings stocks.

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 707B697C777B73717D7D7F1E0 link=1296308711/0#0 date=1296308711
    Anyone know were I can buy a M5/12mm stainless steel screw for this mod? Ive looked online and all the screws listed are only #304 grade not #316. It is not the sort of thing bunnings stocks.
    Here you go mate..... http://www.boltsnutsscrewsonline.com...S-M5-X-12.3802

    If this mob dont sell it, it probably doesnt exist ;)

    Mal.

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Thanks for the link Mal, have been looking at doing this mod with my Silvia.
    Price of screw- 39c
    Postage- $12.90 (ouch!)
    Might try looking around Brissy to pick one up. At least now know exactly which screw to buy.

    Paul

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Try looking in a yacht supply shop - they may stock them. I used a flattened mushroom head with a hex socket. Makes it very easy to get off.

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Gday Paul,

    Ive bought small quantities from them before and after talking to them on the phone, they were happy to send in an envelope or what have you, for about $2.00. Still a lot to pay compared to the price of a single screw of course but when you live out in the bush a bit, you get used to having to deal with that sort of thing.... ;)

    Mal.

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    I got mine from a local stainless steel bolt comp. Try yellow pages, brissy should have one.

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 133E3A363B570 link=1296308711/4#4 date=1296361284
    but when you live out in the bush a bit
    Since when was Warwick "the bush"???? I guess there arent too many hardware stores down that way, but still.

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Thanks for the suggestions guys. Will make it my project for this weekend![ch57413]

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F70726871647372651D0 link=1296308711/6#6 date=1296472404
    Quote Originally Posted by 133E3A363B570 link=1296308711/4#4 date=1296361284
    but when you live out in the bush a bit
    Since when was Warwick "the bush"???? *I guess there arent too many hardware stores down that way, but still.
    When trying to convey relative information to big smoke dwellers, anything 10Kms outside the city boundary is so-called woop-woop.... According to my sons ::) ;)

    Mal.

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Is the button head one better than the countersink one for the mod? Bit worried the countersink will damage the screen with repeated removal. And no it is not because it is 6c cheaper.

    http://www.boltsnutsscrewsonline.com/316-ISO7380-BHSS-M5-X-12.3694



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    A_M
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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F74667378747C7E727270110 link=1296308711/9#9 date=1296492135
    Is the button head one better than the countersink one for the mod? Bit worried the countersink will damage the screen with repeated removal. And no it is not because it is 6c cheaper.

    http://www.boltsnutsscrewsonline.com/316-ISO7380-BHSS-M5-X-12.3694


    It will still protrude into the puck but not as bad as the standard one..

    Get a couple of each ;D

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 616A786D666A62606C6C6E0F0 link=1296308711/9#9 date=1296492135
    Is the button head one better than the countersink one for the mod? Bit worried the countersink will damage the screen with repeated removal. And no it is not because it is 6c cheaper.

    http://www.boltsnutsscrewsonline.com/316-ISO7380-BHSS-M5-X-12.3694

    The BHSS will work fine Newbie, I replaced the screw in my Silvia with something similar about 8 years ago, made removing the screen a breeze and had no impact on dosing or the quality of shots. ;)

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Try a specality fastener store. Ask for a 316 button head cap screw.

    That said, a 304SS will be just fine in this case. The ~2% less nickel content shouldnt affect the anti-rust properties of the screw itself.

    As for a store in Qld, Blackwoods would be a pretty good bet. In Vic try Fastener King out in Dandy, ACT use Specialty Fasteners (http://www.specfast.com.au/), SA use United Fasteners or Coventries, and in NSW Blackwoods are good as well as there are a ton of smaller joints in the west part of Sydney.

    Oh and if you are still having issues, im heading out to Coventries later this week, i could pick up 10-50 of them and post them to people for a minimal donation to a charity or something.

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    ummm...i saw this thread and may be a little late- i have a silvia and also dug up some m5x12mm recessed screws which were in my bike bits box. i tried to do the swap over but 12mm seemed a little too short as the screw needs to reach past the water distributer of the silvia - i measured the screw in there and i think it stands at 16mm - so an m5x16 might be the go? -or i might of just stuffed up - how did you guys go on the 12?

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Depends if its countersunk or not. A M5x12 countersunk bolt will be the same as a M5x16 button or hex head. The length is the length of the thread.

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    This mod looks like it may be worthy of inclusion. Looks very neat.

    http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/358287


    I picked my stainless screw up at a boating/marine shop. They usually have a large assortment of screws, bolts.

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Hello all, has anyone modified their Silvia to take a countersunk screw?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2F2524283D21490 link=1296308711/15#15 date=1297154804
    This mod looks like it may be worthy of inclusion. Looks very neat.

    http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/358287


    I picked my stainless screw up at a boating/marine shop. They usually have a large assortment of screws, bolts.

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    A_M
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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 43444055454E42554E53210 link=1296308711/16#16 date=1302304603
    Hello all, has anyone modified their Silvia to take a countersunk screw?
    YES... Simple and gets rid of that stupid big hole and tear in teh puck.

    Why they persist with it OR a responsible reseller even leaves it in there is beyond me.

    PS. One must remember that the Silvia is not the only machine NOR Rancilio the only manufacturer to do it. Surprising haw many have this big hex head protruding down.

    Then again, knowing what some users do to teh counter sunk screw, it could be which of the two evils is better :D


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    KJM
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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 46414550404B47504B56240 link=1296308711/16#16 date=1302304603
    Hello all, has anyone modified their Silvia to take a countersunk screw?
    I did this a while ago, and there is no mod needed apart from replacing the screw. The little button collar is countersunk already, and just doing the screw up pulls the stainless mesh into the dimple nicely.

    Mind you, I got allen key M5 screws, so now I have a tinytiny raised hex pattern pimple in the centre of the puck!

    /Kevin

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Please forgive my ignorance, but why is this mod so important? what problems does the protruding hex head have in terms of making good coffee?

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    the screw sticking down busts a hole in your nicely tamped puck creating a possible channeling issue once you start the shot.

    the mod stops the issue happening

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    thanks maheel: gee, and I thought my coffee world was just perfect and now I find that Miss Silvia is hexed whereas she should be sunk. Anyway, I have to face facts and take coffeesnobs advice as they are never wrong. Have ordered six of the recommended screws online; the obliging chap said they should be here tomorrow. Cant complain about the service. I presume its a straight screw off and screw on affair? What if I miss that cute little inverted dimple on that cute little puk?

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    Roz
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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Where did you order them from?

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    I used the Boltsnutsandscrews link provided by Mal early in this thread; it took me straight to the company in Queensland; when I got to checkout it said to phone if using a credit card so I spoke to a very obliging chap who said it would be despatched immediately.

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    well If you decide you dont need 6, ill happyily compensate you for 1 ;)

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    The order cost $15.24; mostly for postage of course. Send a $5 lottery ticket and Ill post two to you.

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    The screws did not arrive today (Ill PM the two snobs who offered to buy when they are here). While I have the shower screen off, is there any maintenance type activity I should be doing? To those who have done this mod, is it as simple as turning the machine upside down and unscrewing the hex and replacing with the countersunk?

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3F242E252C3F292C212C2F2C4D0 link=1296308711/26#26 date=1302589728
    While I have the shower screen off, is there any maintenance type activity I should be doing? To those who have done this mod, is it as simple as turning the machine upside down and unscrewing the hex and replacing with the countersunk?
    Hi Richard,

    I wouldnt turn Silvia upside down, just remove the frankenbolt and take the Shower Screen and Jet Breaker off, countersink the Jetbreaker, then clean everything in Caffeto or whatever you use to back flush. I would follow the instructions in the link Vickypoint attached (its exactly what I did to my Silvia). If anyone manager to do this mod without countersinking the Jetbreaker I would be very surprised.


    Quote Originally Posted by 2B21202C39254D0 link=1296308711/15#15 date=1297154804
    This mod looks like it may be worthy of inclusion. Looks very neat.

    http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machinemods/358287
    Remember when you put the shower screen back on it should NOT be tight, the screw really only holds the screen in place, if overtightened expansion and contraction can cause the screw to lock in the brass body the next time you try to take it out, and you dont want to go there.

    Its a great mod for Silvia, worth the trouble of doing it properly. BeanBay.


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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    "just remove the frankenbolt and take the Shower Screen and Jet Breaker off, countersink the Jetbreaker"

    Thanks for the comment Bean Bear; still a bit unsure about what Ill encounter once I unscrew the existing hex bolt head. The item Im waiting for in the mail is already countersunk, so I presume Im spared the process in the Vickypoint link. Can you tell me what is the "jetbreaker" and the "frankenbolt" please?



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    Senior Membear Bean_Bear's Avatar
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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Frankenbolt = original hex bolt. When this is removed the showerscreen and jetbreaker (thats what Rancilio call this part) will also come off with it, they can be a little bit fiddly to put back on so be patient. If you are using the pictured screw you will need to use a countersinking bit to make the recess in the Jetbreaker so that the screw will sit flush with the shower screen. I would press the screw into the showerscreen and jetbreaker as shown in the link (using a vice).
    Good Luck, BeanBay.






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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Your explanation and pictures are soooooo helpful Bean Bear; thank you.

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    KJM
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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    If there is any interest in this, I can bring a half dozen or so M5x12 CS machine screws along to the Beanology event.

    Fellow CSers are welcome to them, M5 is not a pitch I used much at all.

    Let me know. Ill endevour to not forget them!

    /Kevin

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Report time: the M5x12 screws arrived and they are way too short. I dont know if the year model of Silvia makes a difference, but mine is the latest V3 and the existing hex head has a shank length of 14mm, whereas the M5x12 has a shank length of 9mm. They both have heads that are 3mm thick. So if those who PMd are sure their existing hexhead screws are 12mm in shank length (ie: the threaded part) then PM again and Ill be happy to offload mine.

    So I went to a local hardware store and bought a packet of 5x15mm zinc plated button heads. While not as flush as a countersunk screwhead, they have a better overall profile and do not have the huge screwhead channel and 8 corners that are on the hex head. I decided Id rather not create a countersink in the shower screen for fear of distorting it. While zinc plating is reasonably rust resistent, stainless is better so Ill order some of the correct length but with a flathead profile. You can see the difference in profile between the hex and a button head in the pic below.


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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 727374390 link=1296308711/18#18 date=1302396989
    Quote Originally Posted by 46414550404B47504B56240 link=1296308711/16#16 date=1302304603
    Hello all, has anyone modified their Silvia to take a countersunk screw?
    I did this a while ago, and there is no mod needed apart from replacing the screw.* The* little button collar is countersunk already, and just doing the screw up pulls the stainless mesh into the dimple nicely.

    Mind you, I got allen key M5 screws, so now I have a tinytiny raised hex pattern pimple in the centre of the puck!

    /Kevin
    So you dont actually need a countersink drill bit / vice etc to do this properly with the flat screw?

    I have a La Marzocco double basket that I bought with a Pullman tamper a few years back, and just locking in leaves quite an impression from the original screw before the shot. If I dose much lower the tamper bottoms out on the ridge, and I think Im dosing 20g+ (current scales only resolve to 5g unfortunately)

    Probably gonna try a $12.95 evilbay special for some 0.1g jewellery type scales

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 392228232A392F2A272A292A4B0 link=1296308711/32#32 date=1302913815
    Report time: the M5x12 screws arrived and they are way too short. I dont know if the year model of Silvia makes a difference, but mine is the latest V3 and the existing hex head has a shank length of 14mm, whereas the M5x12 has a shank length of 9mm. They both have heads that are 3mm thick. So if those who PMd are sure their existing hexhead screws are 12mm in shank length (ie: the threaded part) then PM again and Ill be happy to offload mine.
    Please read my link in the earllier post. You need to countersink the jetbreaker. You also need to use the screw head to depress the screen. I simply used a small socket under the screen. I then put the screw into the screen and gave it a tap to form the necessary depression. When you tighten the screw through the screen fitting it will form fit. 5x12 will be sufficent if you countersink and depress the screen.

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    I used an M5x12 for mine when I had Lucy. With the countersunk bolt you have to include the head because it sits up inside the screen as vickypoint said.

    When I made mine I put a socket behind the jetbreaker, and loaded it into my vice (socket, jetbreaker, screen, screw) and tighten it up slowly to make the screen fit the countersunk screw. My jet breaker was already countersunk.

    To be honest I didnt find that it made a difference for me, it actually made things worse and caused channeling. :( Maybe I should have played with it more. In the end I bought a non countersunk jetbreaker from coffeeparts to stop the shower screen from bending into the countersunk jetbreaker.

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Oh and I wouldnt be using a zinc screw anywhere near a coffee machine. Stick to stainless only.

    I got my screws from a stainless steel bolt and nut shop on the sunny coast. They where great, I could buy single screws and it was pretty cheap. I used them to replace all my San Marino screws with stainless. No more rusted screws for me!!

    From memory there was a great thread on CG that had photos of the mod.

  38. #38
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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 607B717A736076737E737073120 link=1296308711/32#32 date=1302913815
    So I went to a local hardware store and bought a packet of 5x15mm zinc plated button heads.
    Gday Richard....

    Not a good idea to have Zinc or any other highly reactive heavy metal in direct contact with the Brew Water Path mate. Id switch to s/s ASAP...

    Excerpt from a discussion re: Zinc ingestion....

    "Zinc is considered a heavy metal, which means that it is dense and that relatively low concentrations of the element in the body may lead to heavy metal poisoning. The symptoms of zinc poisoning are similar to other types of heavy metal poisoning. Because of this, exposure to any type of heavy metal should be disclosed to medical staff.

    If left untreated, or if a high level of exposure continues, zinc poisoning can be deadly. Exposure to unhealthy levels of zinc should be limited for all ages. Parents should keep zinc supplements out of the reach of children, as well as keeping their children away from contaminated soil and water. Other adults should be aware of their workplace environments, and should follow medical recommendations on zinc supplements. If living in a contaminated area, filtered water should be used and soil disturbance should be avoided."


    Mal.

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Thanks for the life-preserving warnings here; have removed the zinc plated and am awaiting arrival of SS 5Mx15 buttons. All this angst over a screw? Must have been on Shakespears mind when he named a play "Much ad about nothing".

  40. #40
    KJM
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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by 272D2C203529410 link=1296308711/34#34 date=1302949203
    You need to countersink the jetbreaker.
    The Jetbreaker on my machine is already counter sunk. I dont know if it is a random variation, but my sisters machine is the same.

    I just screwed it in, the stainless screen conforms to the countersink nicely - although if I were to be a bit more anal about it, Id probably kiss the countersink off a bit. I could make it even flatter when screwed in, but wed be talking a fraction of a mm.

    I suspect you need to check your own Silvia and just see if it does indeed need to be drilled. There isnt much meat on the little button the screw goes into, so you cant countersink it much. I hope the photo illustrates what I mean - screen, button and screw.

    Again, if anyone is going to the Beanology event, Ill have some of those screws in the ute. Just let me know.

    /Kevin


  41. #41
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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    My Jetbreaker was flat (2010 Silvia V3), nothing like KJMs so I had to countersink it and press the screw into the showerscreen.

    If you do countersink, you must use a countersinking tool, or use a drill that is correctly modified to do the job. Normal drills do not have enough angle to countersink correctly (and may cause some of the problems mentioned above).

    I initially changed to a SS button head screw (a 25mm one carefully cut down to about 14mm of thread) but I didnt think this made much difference to Silvia.

    Mostly I did the mod so that I could get the portafilter on when I had filled the basket with "my dose" which is now about 22grams in an after-market large double basket. It was never really about channeling, although it no doubt helps.

    BeanBay


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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    I now have a supply of 15mm x5 buttons, countersunks, and 12mmx5 countersunks, so I can see what works best. I probably over-ordered. I think the main killer with the existing head is its sharp-edged hex corners and especially its wide screwdriver slot which must inevitably cause some wild cross-currents under hydraulic pressure. Im now disinclined to put the shower screen under any kind of pressure by pressing a countersink. My earlier days as an aviation instruments techo make me think theres a chance this cure might be worse than the disease. Just putting a smaller head round with no slot must help any tendency towards channeling. What do I do with all these damn screws?

  43. #43
    KJM
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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    Richard - since youve got a machine-engineering background Id assume you have a vice. The showerscreen (if yours is flat like BBs was) should be able to be formed by countersinking the jetbreaker button and then using a vice, the jetbreaker and a C/S screw as a former.. (plus maybe a socket for the end of the screw to sit harmlessly in).

    Thats what I was going to do until I realised mine was already countersunk!

    Granted, stainless is hard and gnarly stuff, but your average 4" dawn vice will make mincemeat of the problem ::)

    A slightly better thing though is to use a countersunk former that is marginally bigger than the machine screw head. Something like an 8g or 10g maybe C/S woodscrew?

    I cant help but think that on my Silvia there was at least the intention of putting a countersunk head in there - otherwise why would they have used the countersunk button? (Thinks to self: because they had a warehouse full of M5x12 hex bolts ;))

    /Kevin

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    Re: Rancilio silvia grouphead screw mod where to buy?

    OK, to finish this thread (for me at least) there appears to be two different mods to improve the problem of the big hex head causing channeling issue. The simple one (that Ive done) is a straight substitution of a SS 5x15mm button head screw for the original hex head. The complete mod is to substitute it with a countersunk screw, which involves some relatively straightforward fitting/adjustment in a vice. Its obvious to me that the simple mod should go a long way to removing the potential channeling issues. For those who demand complete certainty, the complete mod is the right solution.



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